From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #139 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, May 13 2003 Volume 06 : Number 139 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] from kill rock stars...... [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #137 ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic [MarkBursa@aol.c] Re: [idealcopy] more art... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #138 [Ed Special ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] more art... [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] more art... ["White Derek" ] Re: [idealcopy] introductions ["White Derek" ] [idealcopy] Re: ST review and some [HowardJSpencer@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic ["White Derek" ] RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic [Paul Pietromonaco ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 04:39:06 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] from kill rock stars...... > >>See! Even Neu! had to introduce keyboards to ensure their Krautrockist > status! << If Neu! had given up after recording track 1, side 1 of their first album, they'd still be THE archetypal krautrock band.... >> Since I started this hare running I've listened to Send again > for > Krautrock influence and I have to accept that the Neu! motorik sound creeps > in a couple of times (e.g. on Agfers).<< Inevitable really - it's probably the nearest thing to common ground for Wire (in that Colin was a Kraftwerk fan, and Bruce has owned up to liking Cluster before he gave up listening to music!) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:43:21 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #137 Well, personally, I'd ALWAYS buy the vinyl above the CD - except when extra tracks are put on the CD. That really does annoy me! The best buy I had was a Shellac LP which came in a nice box. It was #10 - #2 cheaper than the CD issue. The CD and vinyl were exactly the same. Not only was the vinyl cheaper, but it came with a free CD version of the album too! Vinyl is superior in every way to CD - providing you've got a decent turntable. I can understand why people prefer CD - convenient, more robust, cheaper hardware etc. but for absolute sound quality you just can't beat vinyl and a good turntable. Meanwhile, I'm still sitting here waiting for Send! When it does come though - - the vinyl will get played first (I have ordered both)! As far as length goes - this shouldn't be a problem. Release whatever length is required. I own a few 3 sided LP's! And a lot of 4 sided. The worst thing I find that happens is when bands release singles on CD that are 20-30 minutes long! 7 or 8 versions of the same song can be a bit much. For me, a single is a 3 minute song on one side and a 2 minutes song on the other. For convenience however, I've transferred ALL me 400+ 7 inch singles onto CD, cos I admit, they are a pain in the arse to play! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:59:45 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #138 * And let's hear it for the NAD 3020 amp. Me too - classic piece of kit, although mine packed up about 6 years ago. > cds should at the very least include a pause between original album material and bonus tracks The Stranglers had the best idea (I'm sure other bands have done this too) when they reissued their first two LPs on CDs - they put the bonus material on a second disc! > b) space. I have none, CDs are tiny. I have about the same number of LP's as I do CDs. My LP shelf is 8 foot long (along one wall, on the floor). Above this are my CDs - on THREE 8 foot long shelves!!! Height wise, this takes up far more space! I have the proof that CDs take up more space! Admittedly, the LP shelf is 13 inches deep whereas the CD shelves are only 6 inches - but this all adds to the stability of the whole structure! One final thing - bootlegs, on vinyl, somehow seem to have far more appeal (anyone can make a CD bootleg - but vinyl...) Paul (rezMole) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:19:57 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: [idealcopy] multiple emails Hi Sorry Ian and anyone who rec'd my emails several times. I'd no idea that this had happened. For my part I've been receiving several emails that appear to be sent some days ago. I assumed that this was similar to what has happened before. But now I think about it some of these emails seem to be responses to my own emails which you rec'd late i.e. Paul's response to my email re: OGWT: he seemed to think I'd sent the email after missing the 1980 show; which I didn't. It must appear to people on the list as though I'm contradicting myself or something. Anyway the short answer Ian is - I haven't got a clue!!! I suspect that it's a temporary problem with hotmail. If there are continuing problems can someone mail me off list. For the record I'm sending this email Tuesday 13 May at 12.13 pm! Cheers John _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:38:36 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Poss. Hotmail problems: multiple emails/ e-mails returning from the dead >From: "John Roberts" >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] multiple emails >Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:19:57 +0000 >I suspect that it's a temporary problem with hotmail. If there are >continuing problems can someone >mail me off list. For the record I'm >sending this email Tuesday 13 May at 12.13 pm! I've been having a few strange things happen to my Hotmail account too: Yesterday, I deleted a whole load of messages on one terminal, but on logging into another computer at another location, lo and behold, the 'deleted' e-mails had resurrected themselves, and sat in my inbox, and needed deleting a second time, being flagged as 'unread'. Also *some* messages, (including one from our own Mark Bursa**) were present not once, but twice, in my inbox. Anybody else with hotmail having things like this happen? There's something going on here that's not quite right.............. _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:58:41 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Poss. Hotmail problems: multiple emails/ e-mails returning from the dead On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 11:38:36AM +0000, White Derek wrote: > There's something going on here that's not quite > right.............. > Looks like smoe.org's spamfilter to my inexpert header-reading eyes; I'm not a mail guru, though I know my way around exim. X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2003 15:40:18.0340 (UTC) FILETIME=[4AFEBE40:01C31641] X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: * These headers are present in *one* but not the other of John's mails; the same mail appears twice, once dated as above (suggesting very much that it's not gone through the spam filter) and once delayed (with the typical SpamAssassin signature in the headers as seen above.) My *guess*, and it's nothing more than that, is that the smoe.org spamfilter got itself wedged, with some messages lodged in the queue, and was issuing SMTP error 450 or similar (temporary unavilability) for some period; this instructs the remote mail transport agent (ie, server) to keep trying at regular intervals - whilst *still* taking the message into its queue. This would be broken, but is by no means inconceivable. Then the spamfilter gets pulled for fixing, and we get direct mail to list without going through the filter; Hotmail retries, John's message gets through, all is well. Then, when some time later, the spam-filter's queue of messages is flushed (when someone at smoe.org fixes it), the messages wedged in its queue get sent to the list *again*, resulting in the duplicates we've all seen. I emphasise, this is a slightly educated guess, but it seems relatively plausible. - - Andrew - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ CUR1350, 1350 MW Cambridgeshire and online http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:32:45 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] FX: Hendrix's Big Muff >From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re >Wire >Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:45:48 EDT > >In a message dated 5/12/03 8:23:50 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > > > > >BIG Muff? My very first pedal! It looked and sounded like shit, but I >loved > >it nonetheless. The "Pong" of all FX? > >it was good enough for hendrix, right? i'm pretty sure he used that. either >that ot eh tried to make their box so "you" could sound like hendrix! > >-paul (owner of more than half a dozen eh effects..cheap, noisy, and oh so >cool!) c.d. I *think* you're half right: Hendrix DID use a Big Muff, but didn't he also use an Arbiter 'Fuzz Face' customised by Roger Meyer? I just seem to remember reading that in a reveiw of the Meyer version of the FF, recently re-released & reveiwed in 'Total Guitar'.(For non-UK listees: guitar tab/gear reveiw mag) If I remember this reveiw correctly it said the unit's put together using vintage components where possible, including *Germanium transistors*. I didn't think there were any of these old beasties left on the planet: maybe someone's recycling crap 60's fuzzboxes? I could be right, I could be wrong................. Derek W _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:34:46 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Poss. Hotmail problems: multiple emails/ e-mails returning from the dead Yeah, I'll swallow that. 8-) John the Luddite >From: Andrew Walkingshaw >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Poss. Hotmail problems: multiple emails/ >e-mails returning from the dead >Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:58:41 +0100 > >On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 11:38:36AM +0000, White Derek wrote: > > > There's something going on here that's not quite > > right.............. > > > >Looks like smoe.org's spamfilter to my inexpert header-reading eyes; I'm >not a mail guru, though I know my way around exim. > >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2003 15:40:18.0340 (UTC) > FILETIME=[4AFEBE40:01C31641] >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 > tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43 >X-Spam-Level: * > >These headers are present in *one* but not the other of John's mails; >the same mail appears twice, once dated as above (suggesting very much that >it's not gone through the spam filter) and once delayed (with the typical >SpamAssassin signature in the headers as seen above.) > >My *guess*, and it's nothing more than that, is that the smoe.org >spamfilter got itself wedged, with some messages lodged in the queue, >and was issuing SMTP error 450 or similar (temporary unavilability) >for some period; this instructs the remote mail transport agent (ie, >server) to keep trying at regular intervals - whilst *still* taking >the message into its queue. > >This would be broken, but is by no means inconceivable. > >Then the spamfilter gets pulled for fixing, and we get direct mail to >list without going through the filter; Hotmail retries, John's message >gets through, all is well. Then, when some time later, the >spam-filter's queue of messages is flushed (when someone at smoe.org >fixes it), the messages wedged in its queue get sent to the list >*again*, resulting in the duplicates we've all seen. > >I emphasise, this is a slightly educated guess, but it seems relatively >plausible. > >- Andrew > >-- >email: andrew@lexical.org.uk >http://www.lexical.org.uk/ >Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge >http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ >CUR1350, 1350 MW Cambridgeshire and online >http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:51:03 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Poss. Hotmail problems: multiple emails/ e-mails returning from the ... << Also *some* messages, (including one from our own Mark Bursa**) were present not once, but twice, in my inbox. >> This happens if I press 'reply all' in AOL - it sends back to you and idealcopy, which then sends to you. Sorry about that - should really just send to IC. This one has just been sent to idealcopy so you should only get it once. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:51:46 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Another dead bass player... >From: Monochromatic Man >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Another dead bass player... >Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:39:41 +0100 (BST) > > > BREAKING NEWS FROM BILLBOARD.COM > > MAY 12, 2004 - 5:35 P.M. > > >_______________________________________________________________________ > > > > Hendrix Bassist Noel Redding Dead At 57 > > > > Rock musician Noel Redding, best known for his stint > > > > as the bass player with the Jimi Hendrix Experience, > > > > died yesterday (May 11) in Ireland of unknown > > causes. > > He was 57. > > > > Read the full story now at www.billboard.com. > >Real breaking news. He died yesterday... Not exactly red-hot, are they? It's a shame, though. I think Noel AND Mitch Mitchell's contribution to the Experience is undervalued by some. Just listen to Jimi's later recordings with the Band of Gypsies line-up: to these ears, Billy Cox and Buddy Miles sound stilted in comparison. After Hendrix, Noel swapped bass for guitar in 'Fat Mattress', a band that was a *long* way from the stuff that he did with Hendrix. He seems to have largely retired from the music biz in recent years,living quietly in Ireland, but on those two and a bit albums he did with JH, he certainly made a contribution. R.I.P., Noel. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:12:56 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Another dead bass player...OOPS! > > BREAKING NEWS FROM BILLBOARD.COM > >Hendrix Bassist Noel Redding Dead At 57 : Read the full story now at >www.billboard.com. PERHAPS I SHOULD HAVE DONE...........read on.... >He seems to have largely retired from the music biz in recent years,living >quietly in Ireland, OH NO HE DIDN'T, IT SEEMS! :-0 I really *should* have read the billboard article shouldn't I? Boy, is my face red! All I can say in my defence is he must have kept so low a profile, he was practically subterranean. Repeat after me, Derek: " I must not talk bollocks to the IC " >but on those two and a bit albums he did with JH, he certainly made a >contribution. Still, can we agree on this? Derek, brandishing fork, in search of humble pie.....................:-s _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:43:27 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com > i have to agree with mark. ....................... i've always been of >the opinion that cds should at the very least include a pause between >original album material and bonus tracks, and i wouldn't mind a few seconds >pause between "side 1" and "side 2" on the cd either. Another thing about CD releases, and the disregard of the side 1/side 2 'dynamics' : In some cases, when an album previously available on vinyl is re-released on CD, in some cases the record company doesn't even bother to put the tracks in the same order, which removes any last vestige of this 'album dynamic'! I recently bought the CD reissue of the Psychedelic Furs 'Forever Now', and the track running order is so screwed about with, it's not funny. This represents a truly heinous disregard for the original flow of the album, and the intentions of the artiste(s). Does anyone know any other re-releases similarly messed about with? Derek _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:47:19 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - bastard, bastard, bastard... << ok ok...i know i didnt look for the other links...i have now discovered bastardpop.co.uk...thank you... >> thanks. i had not seen that one. here is yet another: http://www.gohomeproductions.co.uk/ check out "Ray of Gob" = Sex Pistols vs. Madonna. there also is a sert of links at the top of the page to other, similar sites. and look, bastardpop is listed there. silly me, must've missed it earlier... i do have a question for some for the listies who know about this stuff, me being a Yank i am barely aware of "bastard remixes". however, in the fall i went to see Billy Bragg play here in ATL, and the music played between acts was a slew of bastard remixes. included was The Orb vs. Eminem (i recognized "Toxygene" along with Eminem's whining), and i swear there was one that had the chorus to Mr. Bragg's own "Levi Stubbs Tears" in it. anyone familiar with that and/or know where i can find it. much obliged. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:06:29 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: [idealcopy] more art... http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6427013%5E13762,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:07:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic > >>This represents a truly heinous disregard for the original flow of the > album, and the intentions of the artiste(s). Does anyone know any other > re-releases similarly messed about with?<< > > The most horrendous abuse of CD reissue is Television's Marquee Moon. On > the title track on the vinyl, the song fades at the end after Tom starts > singing the first verse again at the end (so creating the illusion they're > going to play the whole thing again). On the CD, the fade is removed, Tom > sings the next line and the track ends with a hideous rawk drum roll. > > The change was made at Mr Verlaine's own insistence apparently. It wasn't > broke, but he fixed it :-( I know I'm contradicting my "trust the artist" > stance here but revisionism is a different case. By all means make a > "director's cut" but only offer it as an alternative, not the standard. I'm annoyed to this day that I've even heard it (just the once, in 1991 - I've never played the > CD since) - it came close to ruining an all-time > favourite album for me. In fact just knowing it exists is bad enough! > > So bad, infact, that I had to buy a new vinyl copy of the album.... If anyone knows whether any CD issue of Marquee Moon has the vinyl-style end, please let me know! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:17:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] more art... I've just been reading the exploits of Nathan Barley on TV Go Home's C*nt documentary, then this. Marvellous. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:27:27 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #138 > ....I have about the same number of LP's as I do CDs. My LP shelf is 8 > foot long > (along one wall, on the floor). Above this are my CDs - on THREE 8 > foot long > shelves!!! Height wise, this takes up far more space! I have the proof > that > CDs take up more space! > Paul (rezMole) Digitally speaking, my collection could take up "virtually" no space. - -but not in the real world. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:07:09 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #138 On Tuesday, May 13, 2003, at 10:27 AM, Ed Special wrote: >> ....I have about the same number of LP's as I do CDs. My LP shelf is >> 8 foot long >> (along one wall, on the floor). Above this are my CDs - on THREE 8 >> foot long >> shelves!!! Height wise, this takes up far more space! I have the >> proof that >> CDs take up more space! >> Paul (rezMole) > > > Digitally speaking, my collection could take up "virtually" no space. > -but not in the real world. > Ed You can also find CD jewel cases that will hold 4 or more CDs. The enclosed artwork is another matter, however... http://www.sleevetown.com/multi-cd-holder.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:59:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: [idealcopy] Send convert Now that I've had a chance to listen to Send a few times, I've come around. I love it. The EPs, I thought, were more interesting than good; I liked the fact that Wire weren't reuniting just to serve up the past, and I figured maybe they'd get the old spark back later, but overall I got the feeling that a lack of ideas was being covered with outrageous sonics. Now, this may put me in a better position with Send than some people, as I was barely attached to any particular R&B tracks, but still, I think with the addition of the new songs and some reordering/commingling, even the songs I'd already shrugged at now have the texture they were lacking. Odd to look back and realized how annoyed I was about delays in getting a record I didn't even expect to like all that much. Sorry this is all so backhanded -- I'm experiencing the same exhilaration I suppose some people were last year with the first Read & Burn, but it's all the stronger for my expectations having sagged. Interesting. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:07:26 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] more art... > http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6427013%5E13762,00.html Nice one! Killing fish for art's sake is immoral... but catching and eating fish isn't. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:14:18 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic > > >>This represents a truly heinous disregard for the original flow of the > > album, and the intentions of the artiste(s). Does anyone know any other > > re-releases similarly messed about with?<< > > > > The most horrendous abuse of CD reissue is Television's Marquee Moon. > I'm annoyed to this day that I've even heard it (just the once, in 1991 - I know what you mean - although I'm interested enough in what came after the fade out to be glad I heard it, I agree it shouldn't be the standard issue. Similarly, it's become fairly standard practice to have a Teenage Dream with a big finale, instead of the original swirling gtrs. I'm glad I heard it, but it shouldn't be the version preserved for posterity. Like Verlaine, Bolan was right to cut it where he did. The difference is that this has happened after Bolan died. The 'most horrendous abuse of cd re-issue' for me is Sulk (the Associates). Up until the new re-issue a couple of years ago, the cd version not only had a different running order that the original album, but it had different tracks. I don't know whether it was based on a US version or something, but it had Sulk era b-sides replacing some of the tracks. Not good. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:22:09 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic I don't have the CD so I could be well off here but going on memory I'd have said that the CD version of Iggy Pop's Lust For Life is by far the worst I've seen. Cheers John >From: "Keith Astbury" >To: >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 >dynamic >Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:14:18 +0100 > > > > >>This represents a truly heinous disregard for the original flow of >the > > > album, and the intentions of the artiste(s). Does anyone know any >other > > > re-releases similarly messed about with?<< > > > > > > The most horrendous abuse of CD reissue is Television's Marquee Moon. > > > I'm annoyed to this day that I've even heard it (just the once, in 1991 >- > >I know what you mean - although I'm interested enough in what came after >the >fade out to be glad I heard it, I agree it shouldn't be the standard issue. >Similarly, it's become fairly standard practice to have a Teenage Dream >with >a big finale, instead of the original swirling gtrs. I'm glad I heard it, >but it shouldn't be the version preserved for posterity. Like Verlaine, >Bolan was right to cut it where he did. The difference is that this has >happened after Bolan died. > >The 'most horrendous abuse of cd re-issue' for me is Sulk (the Associates). >Up until the new re-issue a couple of years ago, the cd version not only >had >a different running order that the original album, but it had different >tracks. I don't know whether it was based on a US version or something, but >it had Sulk era b-sides replacing some of the tracks. Not good. > >Keith _________________________________________________________________ Worried what your kids see online? Protect them better with MSN 8 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=186&DI=1059 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:37:57 +0000 From: "Dave Somers" Subject: [idealcopy] introductions My names Dave Somers Im 28 and live in Ann Arbor, Michigan I work as a research assistant at the University here and play in a noise project with beats and squeeks I've been a devoubt Wire fan for eight years or so. favorite record is probably still Chairs Missing...though all their material as Wire/WIr has grown on me. I just picked up Manscape the other day and took a great liking to Small Black Reptiles... at times I play some of Graham's songs that he sings off First Letter to annoy my other half. My favorite wire in isolation is Bruce Gilbert and project is the Duet Emo stuff with Graham. dave _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:47:41 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] more art... >From: Bart van Damme >To: wire-news >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] more art... >Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:07:26 +0200 > > > http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6427013%5E13762,00.html > >Nice one! I like the bit where he bleats: "It's a question of principle. An artist has the right to create works which defy our concept of what is right and what is wrong," Meyer told the court today. The artist meanwhile said the idea behind the exhibit was to "place people before a dilemma: to choose between life and death". OK, then. How about a new conceptual art piece, where Meyer sits in a tank of saline water, with a 25kVolt feed dangling in the tank. *Then* the miserable tosspot can "Place people before a dilemma: to choose between life and death", and invite the public to pull the switch............ or not. Would he be as keen in his principles then, I wonder? I think probably not, the pretentious, brick-piling piece of s***. Grrrrrrr! Pay the fine and/or go to jail and stop whining. >Killing fish for art's sake is immoral... >but catching and eating fish isn't. I can't argue with that. Derek >Bart _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:53:52 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] introductions >From: "Dave Somers" >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] introductions >Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:37:57 +0000 > >My names Dave Somers >Im 28 and live in Ann Arbor, Michigan >I work as a research assistant at the University here and play in a noise >project with beats and squeeks > >dave As another very recent arrival in the wonderful world of IC, may I bid you "Welcome"? Ann Arbor? Isn't this the hometown of Iggy Pop/ The Stooges? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:13:11 EDT From: HowardJSpencer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: ST review and some From the Sunday Times review: << A recent collaboration with the Chapman brothers has vindicated Wire's status as artists. >> What a strange statement. Does this mean if I collaborate with the Chapman brothers, say over the ordering of three pints of beer (that's one each), then I am an artist too? Re. Nice Streets Above words: I hear BARGAIN PIZZ-AH BARGAIN PIZZ-AH BARGAIN PIZZ AH-HA and I'm going to send it into Mike Smith's hilarious twisted lyrics spot. Or was it Bruno Brookes? Enjoying SEND very much. "Being Watched" is the hit single, if they really want one. Can't you just see them on the Pops with that one, and Graham looking suitably pervy in the promo vid? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:25:19 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic Derek wrote: > > >>This represents a truly heinous disregard for the original flow of the > > album, and the intentions of the artiste(s). Does anyone know any other > > re-releases similarly messed about with?<< Mark replied: > > The most horrendous abuse of CD reissue is Television's Marquee Moon. On > > the title track on the vinyl, the song fades at the end after Tom starts > > singing the first verse again at the end (so creating the illusion >they're > > going to play the whole thing again). On the CD, the fade is removed, >Tom > > sings the next line and the track ends with a hideous rawk drum roll. Aaaaarrrggh!!: having owned the CD for some years now, after using a cassette version since '79, I hadn't actually noticed this 'til you pointed this out. Having bought the CD, I promptly shelved it, perversely reverting to playing the tape again, as it's something I like to listen to 'on the move'. Damn, that's *so* annoying! I quite agree that the way it sounds like they're about to start playing the whole thing through again is an integral part of the track, and to my knowledge, a fairly unique way to end a track. And now Mr Verlaine has gone and truncated it. Jeez, that's sacriligeous. Possibly the best debut album of all time has grown a big, nasty wart on it's previously sublime countenance. CRAP! > >I'm annoyed to this day that I've even heard it Me too:- thanks for that, Mark!! ;-)) >it came close to ruining an all-time favourite album for me. In fact just >knowing it exists is bad enough! It hasn't actually ruined it, but I shall certainly regard *that* version as flawed from here on in. > > So bad, infact, that I had to buy a new vinyl copy of the album.... That's a possibility.... > >If anyone knows whether any CD issue of Marquee Moon has the vinyl-style >end, >please let me know! That's a big "Me, too!"....... By and large, ANY reissue should NOT be tampered with in this way: even by the artist concerned,(even if he IS my favourite guitarist!) as their tastes may have changed between editions, and not always for the better. I would have the process either done by automation, or a studio engineer with the standing instruction "Copy this work VERBATIM." Equally as bad as rejigged endings, is the occasional tendency to add 21st century digital FX to work recorded in the 70's. One case in point, that was the most obvious one I've ever heard was a version of rock standard "All right now"( a song that has possibly the 'driest' mix I've ever heard) on a U.S. compilation CD that was absolutely drowning in all-singing,all-dancing 1999 digital reverb, and it sounded HORRIBLE. No matter what you think of the song, to bury it under tons of digital mush is at least innapropriate. I'm quite sure there are others that people could name.? _________________________________________________________________ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 19:31:33 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: ST review and some > Re. Nice Streets Above words: I hear BARGAIN PIZZ-AH BARGAIN PIZZ-AH > BARGAIN PIZZ AH-HA That must be just because it's dinnertime Howard! ;-) Bart (yum) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 19:45:41 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] introductions > My names Dave Somers Hi Dave, welcome... > Im 28 and live in Ann Arbor, Michigan > I work as a research assistant at the University here and play in a noise > project with beats and squeeks Squeeks eh? (must be another ventolin addict) > I've been a devoubt Wire fan for eight years or so. > favorite record is probably still Chairs Missing... CM? Same here. (Keiiith! Another one!) > though all their material > as Wire/WIr has grown on me. > I just picked up Manscape the other day and took a great liking to Small > Black Reptiles... Manscape must be the least liked Wire album on this list . Still, it's got some great tracks on it. Hell, I even called my company after it. > at times I play some of Graham's songs that he sings off First Letter to > annoy my other half. Hey, Does that work? Must try it some time! ]:-) > My favorite wire in isolation is Bruce Gilbert and project is the Duet Emo > stuff with Graham. Hope you enjoy yourself here... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:15:22 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dynamic Okay - for some unknown reason, I feel a need to weigh in here... (^_^) > The most horrendous abuse of CD reissue is Television's > Marquee Moon. On the title track on the vinyl, the song fades > at the end after Tom starts singing the first verse again at the > end (so creating the illusion they're going to play the whole > thing again). On the CD, the fade is removed, Tom sings the next > line and the track ends with a hideous rawk drum roll. > > The change was made at Mr Verlaine's own insistence > apparently. It wasn't broke, but he fixed it :-( I can't find an on-line reference right now, but I remember reading an interview where Tom basically stated that Television had hated the vinyl version ever since it was released since Elektra had to "cut the end off of" Marquee Moon to get the song to fit on side one of the record. Personally, having only owned the CD version and never hearing the original vinyl version, I think it would bother me to hear a truncated fade-out. I'd be expecting the longer exit. Also, I think that artists have rights to correct mistakes that were not wholly their original decisions. Still, I will defer to the opinions of the esteemed members of IdealCopy on this one. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 19:43:38 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] introductions > > My names Dave Somers > > > I've been a devoubt Wire fan for eight years or so. > > favorite record is probably still Chairs Missing... > > CM? Same here. (Keiiith! Another one!) YEAH!!! (I think Alistair is another) Hi Dave. Hope you like it here. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 19:45:45 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] more art... > Would he be as keen in his principles then, I wonder? I think probably not, > the pretentious, brick-piling piece of s***. Grrrrrrr! Pay the fine > and/or go to jail and stop whining. Your talking my language here, Derek. > >Killing fish for art's sake is immoral... > >but catching and eating fish isn't. > > I can't argue with that. I can. Leave the smelly little things in the water I say. Keith NP Pet Sounds (no blender required) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:49:42 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Mark wrote.........CD's vs. the sie 1/side 2 dyn amic << Personally, having only owned the CD version and never hearing the original vinyl version, >> i have never even seen a copy of this album on vinyl.... but now i am curious to hear the difference. can someone describe the EXACT difference? if it is a fade out at a different time, i can "fake it" using the volume knob on my stereo, just in order to hear what the hubb is all about. but in general -- i understand everyone's point. any song that you really like becomes personal in a very deep way. and hearing a different version is often troubling. for example, i am a big Cocteau Twins fan. i got a "re-edit" off of an Israeli DJ of the album _victorialand_. somehow this guy lengthened all the songs without making it sound like a remix. i listen to this and suddenly the world feels fundamentally WRONG -- like i have sidestepped into an alternate reality where "Lazy Calm" is 7:40 in length and not 6:34! however, on the other hand i have only ever heard "Marquee Moon" on CD, so if i heard the "original vinyl" version, i most likely would get that same feeling.... i guess it's whatever you are used to. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:40:52 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: vic godard from motionrecords.com. if anyone was equivocating over picking up an available copy of 20 odd years, i'd say go ahead & pull the trigger -- >>The good news is that Vic has more gigs lined up but the bad news is that we had a minor disaster at Motion when the manufacturer of our 20 Odd Years release went bust - which has meant we no longer have the capabilities to make more copies. We may plan a different 'Best Of' or we may wait and see what happens to our attempts to locate the 'lost' punk album. The trail is warming up (slightly) so you never know. Sales of 'Sansend' have been disappointing especially considering the excellent reviews. Virtually NO radio play hasn't helped the cause. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #139 *******************************