From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #138 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, May 13 2003 Volume 06 : Number 138 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire [Ant] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Whistle Test Years 1981 [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire ["Wh] Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire ["Wh] [idealcopy] Our own correspondent is sorry to tell... [James Wallis ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Whistle Test Years 1981 ["ian s jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re: Britney Spears and Wire? ["Bryan" ] [idealcopy] OT - bastard, bastard, bastard... ["ian s jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] smoking&shooting&snorting&popping [Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire In message <20030512132429.GA70409@colon.colondot.net>, Andrew Walkingshaw writes >These have a markedly different tone under some circumstances, so; >a) does anyone know what Wire were using at the Barbican for the PF >set? Colin was using a (I think) Danelectro, into the pod, into a Fender Twin. Bruce I couldn't see, as I was at the opposite side. - -- Anthony Chapman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:53:43 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Whistle Test Years 1981 fraid so john. poptones , beasley st and about half a fucking hour of genesis. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 21:43:05 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire Bart wrote: > > Map Ref is absolutely drenched in chorus, and was live too. Colin uses > > chorus/flange on Not To. The bass on Lorries, for example, and the >guitar > > intro to the title track. > >Map Ref?? Chorus?? On 'Not To' Colin certainly uses some member of the delay-line C/F/ADT/Dimension C/D family: pretty much every element in the mix gets the 'treatment' somewhere on the album, and I may be wrong, but I think the bass on pretty much EVERY track does: certainly 'Lorries' has a liberal drenching of it, & on '1-2-3-Beep Beep' pretty much *everything* does: vocals, backing vocals, that tinny guitar, too. In fact, on that track I can't quite work out whether each instrument/voice has it's own treatment, with different rate & depth, or it's applied globally to the whole mix. However, I'm not sure I agree that 'Map Ref...' features either C****s or f****ing on the guitars: That rising sort of 'bong' that pops up between verses sounds like it's got one of the two FX, but I think it's applied to a bass, played high up the neck and the note bent up a tone. I'd say the rhythm guitar has a noticeable wodge of a Phaser applied, but flanging?? Mmmm? Not sure about that:- I'm going to have to dig it out and listen again with fresh ears. (What a chore, eh ;-)) BTW,if somebody can tell me *what* effect is on that guitar that plays that little intro figure, i.e. the one that gets repeated before the verses, I'd be grateful. (& may even run to 'Impressed!') It sounds a bit like a duff lead, or a battery going flat in an auto-wah..........sorta crackly at the edges. Any suggestions? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:00:24 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire Previously, I wrote: >>I can't remember them using flanging/chorus on their guitars, but the bass >>is given *the odd sheen* of it (On 154 and Chairs for sure): To which, Ian S Jackson replied: >bass intro, 'Practice Makes Perfect'...???? i think might have had the >'odd' touch of chorus on it... ;) Point taken, Ian. For 'the odd sheen', please read 'absolute f***ing shedloads, and then some.' ;-) Also, for 'Practice makes Perfect', substitute ' Being sucked in again'......... Still, they sound dandy for it, don't they? _________________________________________________________________ Worried what your kids see online? Protect them better with MSN 8 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=186&DI=1059 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:03:12 +0100 From: James Wallis Subject: [idealcopy] Our own correspondent is sorry to tell... Just spotted, 11pm Monday, Channel 5 using the intro to 'Reuters' behind a (30 second?) trailer for CSI Miami. Gave me a hell of a shock, I can tell you. - -- James Wallis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:15:46 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Mark wrote.......... I'm generally in support of the 'CDs are too long' school and Andrew's mention of 'New Adventures in Hi-Fi' is apt as it's an example I've cited myself in conversation. It hasn't helped that the bloated lengths over the last decade have coincided with less listening time for me. The Read and Burn length is just right for me - it's about the maximum time I can listen in the house without being interrupted unless I'm home alone or it's late. But Andrew's also right that Sigur Ros (for one) have benefited from the CD length, as has classical music. The issue of Sides A & B is one it's difficult to get away from if one grew up with vinyl. I really wished the live Pink Flag had had a break after Pink Flag the song, as that's the way it will always be for me. And the concept of a 'great side' has gone now (e.g. Side A of 154, Scary Monsters, Young Americans, Remain in Light, In Praise of Learning, In Search of Space and the great single song suite slabs on Pawn Hearts, Foxtrot, Close to the Edge and Future Days - hastily throwing in something acceptable before I'm the subject of unjustified ridicule). Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Walkingshaw (Classic case: REM's early albums versus "New Adventures in Hi-Fi", which would be drastically improved by cutting about four tracks and editing two minutes off half the stuff left. It's not a *bad* record, but it could be a hell of a lot better.) It's noticeable that a lot of my favourite recent albums (Ikara Colt's "Chat and Business" and McLusky's "McLusky Do Dallas" come to mind, never mind "Send"...) are short. This is a gross oversimplification, but it seems to be that the likes of godspeed! and Sigur Ros can get away with the bloated triple-album/double-CD gimmicks a lot better, purely because their music develops through a song at a much slower pace than a more typical guitar-band's does. It's actually quite hard to think of a "song-based" hour-long album which couldn't be improved by some tactical editing, actually. - - Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:20:02 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] from kill rock stars...... See! Even Neu! had to introduce keyboards to ensure their Krautrockist status! Since I started this hare running I've listened to Send again for Krautrock influence and I have to accept that the Neu! motorik sound creeps in a couple of times (e.g. on Agfers). Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of RLynn9@aol.com Sent: 12 May 2003 15:01 To: MarkBursa@aol.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] from kill rock stars...... In a message dated 5/12/03 7:57:43 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: << >> Though Neu!, arguably THE absolutely krautrockest krautrock band of all, are > just guitars & drums.....<< are you absolutely sure about that?<< Dinger brought keyboards in on Neu! 75 - he was heading that direction (La Dusseldorf is all keyboards, no guitar). But all the instrumental work on Neu! (the first album) is all Rother's guitar, as far as I'm aware. Mark >> oh ok...because i was just listening to Neu 75 the other day and heard keyboards... phew! thought the golden anorak was about to be tarnished! RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:26:03 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Vinyl bored A Cover for metro and Crapman Bros. And let's hear it for the NAD 3020 amp - I bought one in 1981 or so at the same time as three or four other friends and I think we're all still using them. I had a Dual 505 too for many years but had to replace it after about 12 years for reasons I can't recall. Ah, the early 80s - the heyday of cheap and reliable hi-fi separates. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of dan bailey Sent: 12 May 2003 18:08 To: ideal copy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vinyl bored A Cover for metro and Crapman Bros. >>>they can usually afford > those absurd record players that cost 3 times as >> much as a CD player and require one to remove the turntable (usually made >> of plate glass) in order to move the belt onto a spindle to change the >> speed....<< > >A mere flick of a switch on my trusty 17-year old Dual 505! oh, fresh out of the carton, eh? my pioneer pl 516, bought right after my freshman year in college, turns 25 this month, as do my pioneer sa 7500 II amp & my klh speakers (probably they've got a number, too, but they're about the size of minibar fridges, so i'm not moving them to look). the turntable's been in the shop i think once, the amp never, & the speakers were re-coned in '89. in the meantime, i'm now on probably my 4th tapedeck & 2nd cd player. dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:31:32 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mark wrote.......... ari wrote that mark wrote: >At the risk of sounding fogeysome, the side 1/2 element of an LP is one >of the true joys of listening.The fact that there is an enforced break >led to >much better editing and track ordering IMO, and the time constrictions >inherent in vinyl (50 mins max) vs CD (80 mins) made for tighter editing >and track choice. There's something proper about 2 sides that is lost on >a >lot of CDs........................................................................... ................Rubbish,you'd >be the first to rush out and purchase 'previously unreleased trax' from >albums of you fave artists i have to agree with mark. i think my most fun listening experiences are actually when i sit with a bunch of 45's and choose what to hear...one song at a time. and i've always been of the opinion that cds should at the very least include a pause between original album material and bonus tracks, and i wouldn't mind a few seconds pause between "side 1" and "side 2" on the cd either. - -paul (the only reason i started buying cds was for the bonus tracks, but now i play them more for the convenience) c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:39:41 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Another dead bass player... > BREAKING NEWS FROM BILLBOARD.COM > MAY 12, 2004 - 5:35 P.M. > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Hendrix Bassist Noel Redding Dead At 57 > > Rock musician Noel Redding, best known for his stint > > as the bass player with the Jimi Hendrix Experience, > > died yesterday (May 11) in Ireland of unknown > causes. > He was 57. > > Read the full story now at www.billboard.com. Real breaking news. He died yesterday... __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:40:59 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mark wrote.......... On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 06:31:32PM -0400, Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote: > > -paul (the only reason i started buying cds was for the bonus tracks, but now > i play them more for the convenience) c.d. For me, there are three reasons; a) decent vinyl kit is much more expensive. b) space. I have none, CDs are tiny. c) CDs are much much easier to obtain, and I started late; so I never had any vinyl. I'm still tempted to buy the PF456redux release, even though I have no means of actually playing it... - - Andrew - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ CUR1350, 1350 MW Cambridgeshire and online http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:45:48 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire In a message dated 5/12/03 8:23:50 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > >BIG Muff? My very first pedal! It looked and sounded like shit, but I loved >it nonetheless. The "Pong" of all FX? it was good enough for hendrix, right? i'm pretty sure he used that. either that ot eh tried to make their box so "you" could sound like hendrix! - -paul (owner of more than half a dozen eh effects..cheap, noisy, and oh so cool!) c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:07:11 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] vinyl eardrum paul... > and i've always been of the opinion that cds should at the very > least include a pause between original album material and bonus tracks Me too. Bonus tracks shouldn't just kick in. andrew... >b) space. I have none, CDs are tiny. I read many yrs ago that this is pretty much myth, that because of the thickness of cd cases in comparison with a record sleeve, they actually take up *more* room. They quoted examples in terms of cubic feet, though I've never felt the urge to test it out myself. AT Keith >And the concept of a 'great side' has gone now (e.g. Side A of 154, >Scary Monsters, Young Americans, Remain in Light... And side one Electric Warrior, side two Wilder, side two Closer..... >Foxtrot Cough!!! Dan... >my pioneer pl 516, bought right after my freshman year in college, turns 25 this month I've had my Davoli 50 amp thirty yrs next year. And it was 2nd hand then. Mind you, it's big enough to live in... Keith PS Thanks for the effects notes... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:19:17 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Whistle Test Years 1981 Miles... any idea why i've been getting multiple copies of the last couple of emails sent to both me and the list from John...??? cheers, ian.s.j. >From: "John Roberts" >To: iansjackson@hotmail.com, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Whistle Test Years 1981 >Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 11:07:44 +0000 > >Yes, but did they ever actually show the 1980 edition? If they did somehow >I missed it. And nobody on the list commented on it being shown either. >Please don't say I missed the PiL footage again. > >Cheers > >John > > > >From: "ian s jackson" > >To: idealcopy@smoe.org > >Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Whistle Test Years 1981 > >Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 11:28:12 +0100 > > > >just in case anyone hasn't noticed... > > > >tonights show includes the Gang Of Four... > > > >ian.s.j. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059 > >_________________________________________________________________ >Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:49:25 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? >Bryan > > > this is downloadable from www.dinbot.com > > Britney Does Hardcore > > Sorry folks, it's not porn, > >Nevermind. My daughter wants you to re-mix the whole album. > >Glenn. Bryan, i don't usually check the links given on the list as a rule, but i thought, after Glenn's comment, that i had to hear this...and...its fucking brilliant, thank you...also got the Sabbath v Electric 6, Devo v 50 Cent and now playing, The Beat v Nelly....all excellent...my advice to anyone on the list (with even the slightest pop sensibility...) that hasn't visited the dinbot site yet is...DO SO NOW...!!! anyone know of any other site thats got those early 'bastard pop' cuts to download...??? i'm thinking The Stokes v ???, and of course, the Sugababes v Numan hit... cheers, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:52:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] EardrumPaul wrote...... ......paul (the only reason i started buying cds was for the bonus tracks, but now i play them more for the convenience) c.d. ............................................Makes me wonder,what's the most words you've had betwix Paul & c.d Paul? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:20:15 -0700 From: "Bryan" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Britney Spears and Wire? :-) Unfortunately, it wasn't a shameless promotion. It was just something I wandered on looking for interesting mash-ups. But remixing the whole album would be fun..... Uh...... Wait a minute..... What album? Britney's or Wire's? > > Nevermind. My daughter wants you to re-mix the whole album. > > Glenn. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:31:59 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - bastard, bastard, bastard... answering myself to save you the bother... >anyone know of any other site thats got those early 'bastard pop' cuts to >download...??? >i'm thinking The Stokes v ???, and of course, the Sugababes v Numan hit... ok ok...i know i didnt look for the other links...i have now discovered bastardpop.co.uk...thank you... (looks like i'm still gonna have to find that Sugababes track though...) ian.s.j. (NP - QOTSA v Missy Elliott) _________________________________________________________________ Surf together with new Shared Browsing http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=1059 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:33:57 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire Don't know if they still use them, but when WIRE played St. Andrew's venue in Detroit around 1985 (?), onstage were 3 Roland DEP-5 Digital Effects Processors. It appeared that Colin, Bruce and Graham each used one. http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/899/ [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Roland_DEP5_l.jpg] I've been using mine for at least that long. I recognized them immediately. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:40:35 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] a fine review of Send for those of you who read the weekly online zine Brainwashed (brainwashed.com) Graeme Rowland contributes a fine review of Send THE BRAIN - FOR MOM ON MOTHER'S DAY RL np - Der Spyra "My Little Garden of Sounds" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:17:24 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: [idealcopy] Nice Streets Above lyrics/wireviews/Nice streets above [unintelligable] ================ unintelligable? I don't know if anybody mentioned this earlier, but I thought they were definitely on about: "NO PINK FLOYD, NO PINK FLOYD, NO PINK FLOYD, NO" wich seems quite intelligent. or is that "NO PINK FLAG" (which would be quite unintelligable indeed... that AND silly). i would also like to be able to sing along with the verses, but so far nothing but saliva comes out. B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:35:32 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] smoking&shooting&snorting&popping > Aww shit Bart ! What you smokin' bro??? ;)) on a diet of POD and ventolin nowadays glenn! "nembutol numbs it all, but I prefer alcohol" btw, never EVER smoked tobacco is there a relation between substances & wire? references in songs (the bottleworm we know by now). sand/joints sooner refers to achy knees than reefer? single k.o. a newfound joint which he won't join? awww, who the fuck cares anyway! boring dope. gimme send & the r&b's as a high anytime! bart ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #138 *******************************