From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #136 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, May 12 2003 Volume 06 : Number 136 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Going way OT - Re: NEWMAN! GOTOBED! ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] Vinyl bored A Cover for metro and Crapman Bros. [Bart van] Re: [idealcopy] Grey/Gotobed [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] Send is Sunday Times CD of the Week ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] Working Methods ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] Wire and Blur [James Wallis ] Re: [idealcopy] Wir(e) and Blur [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire and Blur [Andrew Walkingshaw ] [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? ["Bryan" ] Re: [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] from kill rock stars...... [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] from Ari Fwd: Yahoo! Briefcase: luvjazzz's file(s) [Ari Britt] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Fall DVD [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Vinyl bored A Cover for metro and Crapman Bros. [MarkBurs] Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire [Mar] Re: [idealcopy] OT: BBC Continuity announcers [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Wire and Blur [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [idealcopy] 'Send' in Oz but NOT my letterbox ["Phillip Blakeney" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Going way OT - Re: NEWMAN! GOTOBED! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bart van Damme Jeez, I mean like, don't you guys google? ;-) - ------------- Apropos of nothing other than pure coincidence, only two minutes before reading Bart's post I was scanning an interview with William Gibson in The Guardian re his new novel in which he uses Google as a verb. He doesn't claim originality for this as it's been done for two years. More info here http://www.wordspy.com/words/google.asp Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 03:36:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Grey/Gotobed....Bart wrote I bet this is where Robert (Grey) got his (great) nick from. I promise... no more mails today! (shite, and it's just turned sunday!) BartActualy Bart I think you'll find Gotobed WAS/IS his Dad's name,and that Grey is his Mothers maiden name.Graeme?what say you?Ari The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:48:25 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vinyl bored A Cover for metro and Crapman Bros. >> Fergus Kelly's image for 'Malka's Project' would also make a great sleeve. >> Fergus seems to have captured a fragment of WIRE aesthetic with >> that image. > And I wonder if some enterprising Wire fan might take this up and make a > downloadable CD cover for Wireviews.com? Fergus' piece indeed is an excellent choice, though I think Alistair's (1st) Malka contribution and Mark M.'s Es Devlin photographs (the red ones really capture that "live" vibe) also seem very appropriate. As this is my daily job I'll be more than willing to try and make a sleeve out of these 3 components. How about a reversable sleeve, where you can choose between Fergus or Alistair's work as a front, and with Mark's pic's on the backcover? Of course it wouldn't be as minimalistic as Coppenhall's Wire sleeves, but then again this is an IC thing. When afreed I'm going to need better images of the "originals" than the ones online, because their 72 dpi (dots per inch) resolution are not sufficient for printing. What i need is at least 12x12 cm pic's at 300 dpi and I'll see what I can do a.s.a.p. Bart http://www.swimhq.com/nonspace/Malkaproject/Fergus.html http://www.swimhq.com/nonspace/Malkaproject/Alistair1.html http://www.tingy.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dotdash/send.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:56:52 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Grey/Gotobed >> I bet this is where Robert (Grey) got his (great) nick from. >> I promise... no more mails today! (shite, and it's just turned sunday!) > Actualy Bart I think you'll find Gotobed WAS/IS his Dad's name,and that > Grey is his Mothers maiden name.Graeme?what say you?Ari I wonder why anyone would want to change a supercool name such as Gotobed. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:13:04 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: [idealcopy] Send is Sunday Times CD of the Week I just know somebody else will be doing this at the same time as me, but here goes with the Sunday Times review of Send "Wire formed in London in 1977 and applied conceptual-art tactics to the punk orthodoxy of the day. The quartet of determined non-musicians reduced guitar riffs to building block basics and then reassembled them as gorgeous psychedelic mantras. In the 80s they overhauled electronic music with the same rigorous aesthetic. Send is their first album in 12 years and combines the best of both eras, blistering with buzzsaw guitars and humming like a malignant computer brain. A recent collaboration with the Chapman brothers has vindicated Wire's status as artists. Send makes explicit their influence over many of the most prominent rock musicians of the last quarter century. Steve Albini's Big Black and REM were both inspired by Wire. Elastica's dependence on the sound of their earliest incarnation ended in court. Initially, the kinetically energetic anger that pulsates throughout send might seem as absurd as the posturing affected by any bunch of old punks on the nostalgia circuit, but Wire were never interested in cliches of adolescent angst, and the specifics of Send's suppressed violence remain pleasingly ambivalent and fascinatingly obscure. And despite all this highbrow rhetoric there is something delightfully comical about Wire. Bouncing up and down into the 21st century, the Duracell-battery-powered irritants are back to beat us into submission once more." Stewart Lee The review is accompanied by the Wire 1999 picture from tyhe Pink Flag website. Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 13:18:49 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Send is Sunday Times CD of the Week > "And despite all this > highbrow rhetoric there is something delightfully comical about Wire. > Bouncing up and down into the 21st century, the Duracell-battery-powered > irritants are back to beat us into submission once more." Says it all really. As reviews go I kinda like this one. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] Grey/Gotobed > Actualy Bart I think you'll find Gotobed WAS/IS his Dad's name,and that > Grey is his Mothers maiden name.Graeme?what say you?Ari I wonder why anyone would want to change a supercool name such as Gotobed. Bart Maybe his parents divorced when he was young?maybe he GOT TO a stage where he tired of the jokes,o.k I'll stop making blanket statements now.....sheeeeet!(you can always deBUNK them) shuddup Ari. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:37:31 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Working Methods - ----- Original Message ----- From: giluz > > > Collaboration is crucial, otherwise you are in danger of creating what I > > > call 'wank music' ( > > Collaboration inevitably involves compromise, and therefore, for some, the dilution of one's artistic vision and integrity, and this - along with ego - is probably why many musicians working as part of a unit feel, for better or worse, drawn towards solo projects. Some of the strengths of collaboration rest is in the the presence of editors, realists, springboards, tension, conflict, agreement, confirmation, elation. It's finding the balance which is crucial and I think this is where Wire excel. Perhaps this was where Es Devlin was coming from in the compartmentalisation idea at the Barbican. It might not be a startlingly original observation, but, 4 individuals unfased by their separation and isolation, but also a combined unit, a solid foundation or building block from which something very special can be created. Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:30:35 +0100 From: James Wallis Subject: [idealcopy] Wire and Blur In message , Anthony Chapman writes >Did anyone else on the list see Wir support Blur at the national club, >Kilburn in - um, 91 I guess it was. It was quite amusing to watch the >stage through a sea of teenage v-signs aimed at the "old farts" on >stage. I was there. Not one of Wire's finest sets, but surviving the boos and bottles was an accomplishment in itself. There's probably a whole crew of twentysomething Nathans out there talking about how seminal and important Pink Flag is, completely unaware that they saw the band live twelve years ago. - -- James Wallis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 14:24:34 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wir(e) and Blur >> Did anyone else on the list see Wir support Blur at the national club, >> Kilburn in - um, 91 I guess it was. It was quite amusing to watch the >> stage through a sea of teenage v-signs aimed at the "old farts" on >> stage. > I was there. Not one of Wire's finest sets, but surviving the boos and > bottles was an accomplishment in itself. Early Blur and Wir to me seems like a terrible combination. http://www.wireviews.com/wmo/newsletter_1_1.html Can you remember any more details James (& Anthony)? > There's probably a whole crew of twentysomething Nathans out there > talking about how seminal and important Pink Flag is, completely unaware > that they saw the band live twelve years ago. Hmmm, perhaps also due to the fact they saw Wir and not Wire. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 15:09:36 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire and Blur On Sun, May 11, 2003 at 12:30:35PM +0100, James Wallis wrote: > In message , Anthony Chapman writes > >Did anyone else on the list see Wir support Blur at the national club, > >Kilburn in - um, 91 I guess it was. It was quite amusing to watch the > >stage through a sea of teenage v-signs aimed at the "old farts" on > >stage. > > I was there. Not one of Wire's finest sets, but surviving the boos and > bottles was an accomplishment in itself. > > There's probably a whole crew of twentysomething Nathans out there ^^^^^^^ Is it me, or has http://www.tvgohome.com/ warped reality utterly and irrevocably? (This probably isn't a bad thing...) - - Andrew (Nathan - reference to Nathan Barley, star of TVGH's program "Chorus"[1], quite blatantly modelled on one Mr D. Albarn) [1] Well, actually the *other* c-word. - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ CUR1350, 1350 MW Cambridgeshire and online http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 15:16:01 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vinyl bored A Cover for metro and Crapman Bros. >When afreed I'm going to need better images of the "originals" than the >ones >online, because their 72 dpi (dots per inch) resolution are not sufficient >for printing. What i need is at least 12x12 cm pic's at 300 dpi and I'll >see what I can do a.s.a.p. good man Bart (for the offer, at the very least...), lets hope someone can provide the essentials...!!! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 11:13:00 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bruce in Moscow > >> http://www.udm.ru/culture/morzefish/bg.html >Haven't got a clue. It's on a Rumanian page though. Mind your Ps and Qs and TLDs please. ROmania is .ro, RUssia is .ru It's an interview with Bruce, but I'm pretty lazy to translate it back to English from Russian. Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 18:53:39 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bruce in Moscow > Mind your Ps and Qs and TLDs please. ROmania is .ro, RUssia is .ru > It's an interview with Bruce, but I'm pretty lazy to translate it back to > English from Russian. > > Syarzhuk Aaaaw, c'mon Syarzhuk, you know we would really appreciate it. ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:58:17 -0700 From: "Bryan" Subject: [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? this is downloadable from www.dinbot.com Britney Does Hardcore Sorry folks, it's not porn, just another tune off my upcoming 'Songs of Death and Destruction' album. ;-) Seriously though, it's Britney's I'm a Slave 4 U (sorry, but I'm pretty sure you've never heard her quite like this) with Being Watched, a song off Wire's upcoming 'comeback' album. It's called I'm Watching 4 U. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:08:21 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? > this is downloadable from www.dinbot.com > Britney Does Hardcore Jeez, thnx Bryan! SUPERCOOOOOL sacrilege this!! So who's responsible? Colin himself? ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 17:13:39 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Grey/Gotobed On Sunday, May 11, 2003, at 06:56 AM, Bart van Damme wrote: >>> I bet this is where Robert (Grey) got his (great) nick from. >>> I promise... no more mails today! (shite, and it's just turned >>> sunday!) > >> Actualy Bart I think you'll find Gotobed WAS/IS his Dad's name,and >> that >> Grey is his Mothers maiden name.Graeme?what say you?Ari > > I wonder why anyone would want to change a supercool name such as > Gotobed. > > Bart Perhaps because like me, I was never certain how to pronounce Gotobed. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 17:47:27 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? In a message dated 5/11/03 9:09:26 PM GMT Daylight Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > Jeez, thnx Bryan! SUPERCOOOOOL sacrilege this!! > So who's responsible? Colin himself? ;-) > > //////you do realise for us vinyl buyers we are actually getting the > britney version before the colin one...........p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:57:06 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] from kill rock stars...... > >>Thinking about this I suspect I need > some keyboards somewhere in the mix to create that authentic sound,<< Though Neu!, arguably THE absolutely krautrockest krautrock band of all, are just guitars & drums..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 17:37:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] from Ari Fwd: Yahoo! Briefcase: luvjazzz's file(s) luvjazzz@yahoo.com wrote: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 17:27:47 -0700 (PDT) From: luvjazzz@yahoo.com To: luvjazzz@yahoo.com Subject: Yahoo! Briefcase: luvjazzz's file(s) - --------------------------------- luvjazzz is sharing some files with you! 1. Img_0719.jpg 2. Img_0720.jpg 3. Img_0721.jpg 4. Img_0722.jpg 5. Img_0723.jpg 6. Img_0725.jpg - --------------------------------- Please access files only from people you trust. Get started today -- visit Yahoo! Briefcase ! Upload up to 30MB of files for free. Access your files from any Web browser, anywhere, anytime. Save Yahoo! Mail attachments directly to your Yahoo! Briefcase The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:19:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Fall DVD >>> "This DVD contains two different films showcasing the band during their > early Eighties heyday. Perverted By Language is an illuminating insight > into Mark E. Smith, see him in the pub, at the football ground and jiving > at > the Hacienda. The film features both interviews with Mark and promo videos > for many of the bands genre bending singles from the early part of their > career, including Indie Chart top five singles Totally Wired, The Man > Whose Head Expanded and Kicker Conspiracy.Live At Leeds features the > band in concert from Leeds University in 1981. Amongst the tracks featured > in this excellent performance from the band are live favourites Hip > Priest > and Prole Life. This DVD is a must for any fan of The Fall! " > > Is this worth buying?<< Absolutely. Highly amusing low-budget videos (watch the level of MES's pint glass in the pub) plus top footage from the Hacienda including at one point (ahem) me in the crowd, for a billionth of a nanosecond. the possibility exists of the release of 2 or 3 complete Hacienda gigs (cf the recent Cabs video) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:29:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vinyl bored A Cover for metro and Crapman Bros. > >>I think its hilarious that people require a record re-cutting on Vinyl > which > was made mostly on Colins Apple Mac with Protools...<< No, just sad bastard anorak tendencies that require the vinyl because a) it has different editing and b) It's a Wire artifact! >>they can usually afford > those absurd record players that cost 3 times as > much as a CD player and require one to remove the turntable (usually made > of plate glass) in order to move the belt onto a spindle to change the > speed....<< A mere flick of a switch on my trusty 17-year old Dual 505! > >>I can't believe you're all getting so stressed about having to wait for > Send! << No stress, enjoying the d/l MP3 version as I type ;-) >>You must be used to inconvenience, having to get up and change to > side 2 > all the time<< At the risk of sounding fogeysome, the side 1/2 element of an LP is one of the true joys of listening. The fact that there is an enforced break led to much better editing and track ordering IMO, and the time constrictions inherent in vinyl (50 mins max) vs CD (80 mins) made for tighter editing and track choice. There's something proper about 2 sides that is lost on a lot of CDs. >> and having to take your record player to bits every time you want to play a 45rpm > record.<< Agree about this - I guess those are really aimed at classical types who never buy 45s. There's no shortage of record decks that have a switch.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:40:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FX:Fear and loathing of Flanging & Choruzzzz re Wire > >Lots of otherwize great tunes from those days were ruined by those fucking > >things. Perhaps next time I will tell you about my loathing of... > >chorussezzZzzz. > > > Yeah, I'm not going to disagree there: it seems evryone and his auntie > wanted to drown every song in FX like them, but they were also the making > of > some stuff.. Where, for instance would The Cocteau Twins be without those > densely layered Flange/Chorus/ADT/reverb/kitchen sink washes that Guthrie's > > SO fond of? There are others, but the CT are the first to spring to > mind.....<< I'm with White Derek here! I'm on my second Electric Mistress (oo err...) and have at least three chorus pedals(!!) including two Electro Harmonix Memory Man analogue delay/chorus things. EH pedals sound fantastic... the Electric Mistress definitely has more 'flange' than the MXR (which I think was favoured by John McGeogh). The EH chorus works a treat on the bass - it's what Peter Hook used. Was delighted to see Crispy Ambulance's Rob Davenport still using his original 70s Mistress last year - such a unique sound. MXR wins hands down on distortion pedals though - the MXR Distortion+ has sooo much more bite than the EH Big Muff (they did know how to pitch to the 70s heavy rocker, didn't they!!) >>> >Btw, anyone know if Wire ever (ab)used the F.- or the C. word? Can't > think > >of songs in which they have... Boiling (bubble)Boy maybe?<< Map Ref is absolutely drenched in chorus, and was live too. Colin uses chorus/flange on Not To. The bass on Lorries, for example, and the guitar intro to the title track. > >>I can't remember them using flanging/chorus on their guitars, but the bass > > is given the odd sheen of it (On 154 and Chairs for sure): This can be > good > if you find post-recording that your instrument wasn't *quite* as well in > tune as you thought) and on Colin's 'A-Z' album, I think he flanges the > voice in places. > Sorry, non gear-heads: I'll go and stand in the > corner...........;-)<< Mind if I join you?;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:44:55 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: BBC Continuity announcers Just before Peel's BBC World Service broadcast last week, the continuity announcer informed us John Peel would be playing music by "Prince Far The First." Up there with Joy Davidson! Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:31:07 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire and Blur In a message dated 5/11/03 7:32:19 AM, james@erstwhile.demon.co.uk writes: >Nathans never heard this one before. what's the slangle? - -another the paul www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:46:03 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Britney Spears and Wire? In a message dated 5/11/03 5:48:25 PM, PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: > >> //////you do realise for us vinyl buyers we are actually getting the > >> britney version before the colin one...........p hehe, i hadn't thought of that. i wonder what kind of um, ur, spin this will put on your record listening experience when you do hear it on send. - -paul (britney's newest fan!) c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:50:10 +1000 From: "Phillip Blakeney" Subject: [idealcopy] 'Send' in Oz but NOT my letterbox NEWS FLASH: 'Send' has hit the shop(s) in Australia, but because I ordered the vinyl it has not hit my letterbox. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! The price in the one shop I have seen it is $50 (Australian dollars) = $US32, or 20 pounds; with the 'limited edition with live CD', priced at $70 = $US 45 or 28 pounds. Phew- at those prices I'll wait for the postie. Phillip from Oz. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. Find our more. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:56:12 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #135 Tim writes >Is this worth buying? Oh yes! I have the VHS cassette, and I'll be getting the DVD too! Some of the stuff is pretty amateurishly videoed - but that's what makes it enjoyable. It's by far the best of the Fall videos released. I'd also recommend "Pleasure Heads must burn" by the Birthday Party - - seems there are lots of extras on that Cherry Red DVD that weren't on the original Factory video. Paul (rezMole) Now playing - LAMF (J Thunders) - the original cassette release - with the proper mastering! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:26:34 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Send' in Oz but NOT my letterbox Hmmmm. I thought the limited edition with live CD was exclusive to mail order only??? Cheers John >From: "Phillip Blakeney" >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] 'Send' in Oz but NOT my letterbox >Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:50:10 +1000 > >NEWS FLASH: 'Send' has hit the shop(s) in Australia, but because I >ordered the vinyl it has not hit my letterbox. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! The >price in the one shop I have seen it is $50 (Australian dollars) = $US32, >or 20 pounds; with the 'limited edition with live CD', priced at $70 = >$US 45 or 28 pounds. Phew- at those prices I'll wait for the postie. >Phillip >from Oz. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. Find our >more. _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #136 *******************************