From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #93 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, April 1 2003 Volume 06 : Number 093 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OT: IC massive in Bedford, Subway Sect ["John Roberts" ] [idealcopy] Send artwork [Fergus Kelly ] Re: [idealcopy] Send artwork [Andrew Walkingshaw ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: Slits ["Keith Knight" ] RE: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Slits ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] weird coincidence (further off topic than Robert) ["Ian B] Re: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... ["dan bailey" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: IC massive in Bedford, Subway Sect Hi I'd missed all the emails that flew around on Saturday afternoon so wasn't expecting such a turn out from the list. Good to meet Andrew and Another The Keith. Good to see Mark again. Even better that the support band didn't make him choke on his lager like the last time I met him. Although Old Glorious Bastard - for that's what this support act were called - were amusing/frightening. Sort of Splodgenessabounds fronted by the original singer from Age Of Chance. Or perhaps I ought to get out more. > >A small venue, gone to seed (if it was ever flowering). A small stage, >at least for the seven members of Subway Sect. Hey - this was Bedford's "premier music venue"! I'd not heard any of the >album but according to Mark (who had only heard the single) it >encompasses trip-hop and banghra beats. Not too much evidence of that >here. > Well it's what the reviews say. The album versions are definitely more hip hip oriented. >A chat in the pub with Andrew and Mark revealed that none of us had seen >him before (though maybe John had?) Unfortunately not. which is perhaps an indication of >how rarely he plays, or the fact that he plays places like this with >virtually no publicity. As far as I know he's played two London gigs in the past two years. A friend of mine saw him play a gig in Edinburgh about three years ago. He also played a set at his manager's wedding recently. Apart from that I don't know of any gigs he's done since the Surrey People album. He dresses a long way from the tuxedo days now >- a well-worn shapeless coat which he keeps on all night and heavy >glasses which obscure still fine bone-structure. The band are mainly >men of a certain age and hairloss who clearly have a fondness for him >(or why turn up in front of 150 people). I think they're probably all postmen. They certainly wouldn't look out of place strolling along my street with a bag of mail and a hangover. Mind you, they were younger than most of the audience. The music, as Andrew observed >at one point, veers close to shambolic in places but is played with zest >and is a highly entertaining set - a few people even strode on to the >dance floor for a kind of bossa nova number at one point. Our favourite >member of the band was the Vic Mini-me (his son? I speculated without an >inch of proof) who wears similar glasses and stands behind Vic dancing >bizarrely with a tambourine and a violin (although not simultaneously). > >As for Vic he still sings like no-one else and seems permanently >distracted. He clearly has problems remembering lyrics because he first >referred to the CD sleeve ("this is the new album - it sounds nothing >like this") and later brought on a large A4 pad of lyrics which he >referred to for a prompt before the start of most songs, but then - >because he needed to block the music entering his left ear -held up to >his face. The keyboard player tried to point out to him that half the >audience couldn't see him but he was clearly oblivious. After four >songs he warmed the audience up by saying the band had had a look around >Bedford earlier and hadn't been very impressed by it. > Yes, Vic in glasses. He reminded me of Woody Allen. Some nice buildings and a nice pub was about all he had to say in the positive about Bedford. The A4 pad tended to be for the songs they did where Irvine Welsh had written the lyrics I think. >All in all a very enjoyable evening. The music is entertaining and the >band and Vic are out and out funny. Mark only recognized one or two old >songs and no Ambition sadly. A song called Handjobs stands out in the >memory. The set was mostly the new album. Think they did four from the forthcoming album - which is the stuff he wrote with Irvine Welsh for their musical, Blackpool. Three 'oldies': 'Empty Shell' (encore) from What's The Matter, Boy?, 'Zero Tolerance' (Crossroads Theme soundalike) from Long Term Side Effect and 'Malicious Love' from Surrey People. Think that was it as far as oldies wasn't it? I found myself thinking how punk allowed people like Vic Godard >(and Devoto, Mark E Smith, Wreckless Eric Mark Perry etc) to be >recognized, even in a fringe way, by almost a mass audience (who >obviously weren't there last night but Andrew said he had heard Ambition >on Radio 2 more than once) and how we lost that soon after - but the >talent still burns in them. Couldn't agree more. Wreckless Eric plays here in Leicester soon if you're interested. Did have a quick chat with Simon from the Sect as we'd been emailing each other about their gig in Leicester (plug, plug - it's May 24) and got introduced to Vic. Me: 'So is this what we can expect when you come to Leicester then?' Vic: 'More or less, yeah. Only played better.' This was all very Wire: in the space of 24 hours I managed to see two bands I never thought I'd see (I'd been to see Zounds the night before). And met and talked to them. It's not very punk rock I know and I should know better at my age than to be in awe of musicians but it was a weekend I'll never forget. Cheers John _________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:01:25 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Slits Just thinking of old punk bands I thought I'd never see and remembered someone telling me on Friday that the Slits had reformed to play the Morecambe Punk Rock Festival. Just had a look - http://www.punkfestival.co.uk/bands.htm - and there is an "Ari Up's Slits" on the bill. However, accoring to this post - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theslits/message/75 - the promoter may have jumped the gun. Not sure how many of us would have endured The Business and Cock Sparrer in order to get to see the Slits mind. Cheers John _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:27:09 -0800 (PST) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] Send artwork Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:31:35 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] just per-ordered mine >>I> sn't the sleeve just excellent! ///// Yeah it's great. Simple. Punchy. Effective. Glad to hear someone else likes it... Anyone know who did it?<< > Sven ;-) ///// Sven ? (aka Graham) Really? I thought it looked more like David Coppenhall's work. He designed the R&B stuff, and Bruce's solo stuff. The red rectangle is a curious kind of echo of the one on the cover of In Esse... Fergus ============================================================ Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:06:35 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Send artwork On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 07:27:09AM -0800, Fergus Kelly wrote: > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:31:35 EST > From: MarkBursa@aol.com > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] just per-ordered mine > > >>I> sn't the sleeve just excellent! > > ///// Yeah it's great. Simple. Punchy. Effective. Glad to hear > someone else likes it... Count me in as well; if there's one Wire cover that would look *damn good* on a poster, this one is it, IMO. I'm a sucker for simple, iconic images; it's such a clean, contemporary design, which in some sense is one[1] of the purposes of popular music. Yeah, I'm shallow. Sue me. :) - - A [1] (see [2]) Note that I'm saying "one", not "the primary" or "the only". However, I still have a gut feeling that music should either reflect or define the time it's from in some sense. [2] Obligatory self-parody after someone's comment last week. :) - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ CUR1350, 1350 MW Cambridgeshire and online http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:55:42 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Slits the night i saw x ray spex without poly styrene still haunts me.......the business and cock sparrer 20 years on must be quite a sight to behold. but the slits were one i missed and would love to see.although those retro punk shows would probably be mostly horrible cabaret turns. best idea is probably to catch a warm up show if there is one. is there a slits website? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:36:27 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Wire at the Bottle >From: "dan bailey" >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The worm in the (empty) bottle > >just out of curosity, how small is "small"? not that i'm jaded or anything >(at least in this particular context), but the metro didn't strike me as >completely cavernous. No, but the Bottle is smaller. I'm not good at comparing spaces, but imagine the Metro w/out the balcony and you'd be close--probably even a little smaller. As of now, it's not even on the Bottle's early warning page. I'm on their update list, so if I hear anything I'll post it immediately, as should anyone else. These are likely to sell out fast. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:58:07 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Slits > the night i saw x ray spex without poly styrene still haunts me....... You saw X-Ray Spex without Poly? Christ. When was this? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:38:52 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Slits Mention of poly styrene reminds me that I sat behind her at the Wire RFH gig! Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com [mailto:PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Sent: 31 March 2003 18:56 To: johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com; steeleknight@lineone.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Slits the night i saw x ray spex without poly styrene still haunts me.......the business and cock sparrer 20 years on must be quite a sight to behold. but the slits were one i missed and would love to see.although those retro punk shows would probably be mostly horrible cabaret turns. best idea is probably to catch a warm up show if there is one. is there a slits website? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:39:50 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... You'll note that Mark and I have conspicuously not replied to this post. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of dan bailey Sent: 30 March 2003 17:25 To: ideal copy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... >Another the Keith - still recovering from last night's highly >entertaining Subway Sect gig at the luxurious Bedford Esquires in the >company of a select IC massive, messrs Roberts, Lumbard & Bursa. are you saying they could stand to lose a few lbs? dan, who certainly could, esp after coming across a photo from grad school that made him look like he was trying out for adrien brody's role in the pianist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:41:03 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... The new White Stripes is a blinder - definitely a five out of five album in my book. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of dan bailey Sent: 30 March 2003 17:27 To: ideal copy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... brief but favorable -- will jot down the words next time i see the copy. it was a brief mention in a column of capsule reviews on "fringe music" or something of the sort, as opposed to a full review proper with star-ratings & such (like the one of the new white stripes album, which got 5 stars out of 5 -- something that rather worries me, given my lack on respect for the mag's acumen). dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:44:40 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] Chapman Brothers Long piece in today's Guardian about the fact that Jake and Dinos Chapman have defaced some original Goya prints they own. It can be found here if interested: http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,926134,00.html Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:51:21 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Slits > Mention of poly styrene reminds me that I sat behind her at the Wire RFH > gig! > > Another the Keith You mean I've been in the same room as Poly! Swoon!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:04:42 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] weird coincidence (further off topic than Robert) In response to Robert's coincidence story - and with apologies for non-Wire, non-Music content My dad, a very honest man, puts up suspended ceilings for a living. A friend asked him if he'd do one for him in his home. Only time available was on a working day. For perhaps the one and only time in his life my dad phoned in sick so that he could help his friend out. Whilst doing the ceiling at his friend's house, the phone rings. His friend answers and calls up the stairs "Roy, it's for you." Baffled, my dad comes to the phone. It's his boss from work phoning to see if he'll be okay for an out of town job the following week. Flustered, my dad asks his boss how he knew he was there. The boss explains, "because you called in sick." His boss had dialled the wrong number, and ended up calling the house where my dad was slying off work ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:35:46 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... In a message dated 3/31/03 8:41:29 PM GMT Daylight Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: > The new White Stripes is a blinder - definitely a five out of five album > in my book. /////got a lot of rave reviews and i'm really looking forward to hearing that. very interesting one in last fridays guardian where the reviewer pointedly noted the complete failure of the laughable "new rock revolution" to penetrate the top 40 meaningfully with the exception of the stripes. fair comment i guess , the strokes seem to have been laughed off by now (few folks hanging their heads there i should think after the way they were bigged up initially) and the others seem to be failing to get much momentum up. i guess the "class of 79" acts now emerging probably don't really expect big sales (just as well lads). of course you realise that next year we're due an 81 revival so get learning those bunnymen/josef k riffs. then i guess its a smiths revival , boy we have so much to look forward to. but seriously , wonder how "send" fits into all this? pretty well maybe....... and i see some promos for fischerspooner's "the 15th" available again , i think i can take a guess what they're hoping for...... p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:43:14 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... me, i still like the strokes. also am not sure what validity is imparted by making the top 40 -- quite the opposite over here, really, where it's at best something to be lived down (& is highly unlikely to occur anyway unless one has, oh, a song on a best-selling soundtrack &/or is competely prefabricated). things must be considerably different across the pond. dan >In a message dated 3/31/03 8:41:29 PM GMT Daylight Time, >steeleknight@lineone.net writes: > > >> The new White Stripes is a blinder - definitely a five out of five album >> in my book. > >/////got a lot of rave reviews and i'm really looking forward to hearing >that. very interesting one in last fridays guardian where the reviewer >pointedly noted the complete failure of the laughable "new rock revolution" >to penetrate the top 40 meaningfully with the exception of the stripes. fair >comment i guess , the strokes seem to have been laughed off by now (few folks >hanging their heads there i should think after the way they were bigged up >initially) and the others seem to be failing to get much momentum up. i guess >the "class of 79" acts now emerging probably don't really expect big sales >(just as well lads). > >of course you realise that next year we're due an 81 revival so get learning >those bunnymen/josef k riffs. then i guess its a smiths revival , boy we have >so much to look forward to. > >but seriously , wonder how "send" fits into all this? pretty well >maybe....... and i see some promos for fischerspooner's "the 15th" available >again , i think i can take a guess what they're hoping for...... > >p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:02:03 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... I think a new Strokes release would be huge if they would ever get around to writing another song - I think they're headlining Reading or something similar in the summer and I suspect one could predict the setlist now. It's not surprising the Class of 79 acts aren't charting - Gang of Four just weren't that popular so there's no reason why their copyists should be. Interpol have already started the Smiths revival in at least one song on their album and The Faint sound like every synth band of 81. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com [mailto:PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Sent: 31 March 2003 23:36 To: steeleknight@lineone.net; dpbailey@worldnet.att.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... In a message dated 3/31/03 8:41:29 PM GMT Daylight Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: The new White Stripes is a blinder - definitely a five out of five album in my book. /////got a lot of rave reviews and i'm really looking forward to hearing that. very interesting one in last fridays guardian where the reviewer pointedly noted the complete failure of the laughable "new rock revolution" to penetrate the top 40 meaningfully with the exception of the stripes. fair comment i guess , the strokes seem to have been laughed off by now (few folks hanging their heads there i should think after the way they were bigged up initially) and the others seem to be failing to get much momentum up. i guess the "class of 79" acts now emerging probably don't really expect big sales (just as well lads). of course you realise that next year we're due an 81 revival so get learning those bunnymen/josef k riffs. then i guess its a smiths revival , boy we have so much to look forward to. but seriously , wonder how "send" fits into all this? pretty well maybe....... and i see some promos for fischerspooner's "the 15th" available again , i think i can take a guess what they're hoping for...... p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:09:16 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Strokes/Top 40 I also liked the Strokes LP. Sort of a shambling/C86 version of Sonic Youth's 'Sister' if that doesn't sound like a criticism. Or a thumbs up for C86. I rarely see or hear the Top 40 because I don't work near a radio and I play five a side football when Top of the Pops is on. In most of the years prior to that I just to shout at the telly when TOTP was on. But I use to enjoy watching it as a kid in order to catch the odd punk/new wave band. At the time to go from Liquid Gold or the Goombay Dance Band to the Buzzcocks or the Ruts always seemed to accentuate the whole point of punk rock to me. I can remember my step father's reaction to Elvis Costello quite vividly: 'Sounds like a load of old dustbins being banged together.' And to think of the 'alternative' bands they actually have had on because they've made the Top 40 (or thereabouts) - Magazine, the Saints, Killing Joke, Theatre of Hate, Ian Dury, the Damned, Sex Pistols, the Jam, PiL, Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Cult, the Smiths, OMD, New Order, the Bunnymen, Flying Lizards, Teardrop Explodes, Julian Cope and dozens more UK listers can remember I'm sure - would make quite an impressive video compilation (even if I don't particularly like some of these bands). They nearly had Gang of Four. And some odd bands have cracked the Top 40 without appearing on TOTP; the Clash, Dead Kennedys. The debate is are these bands you could say have lost their integrity? And I think there would be debate. For example, I've not really touched on the dance or electronic side of things. I personally think it's a shame Harvest/EMI couldn't have made a decent job of promoting 'Outdoor Miner'. Or Mute most of the MKII singles. Cheers John >From: "dan bailey" >To: "ideal copy" >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:43:14 -0600 > >me, i still like the strokes. also am not sure what validity is imparted by >making the top 40 -- quite the opposite over here, really, where it's at >best something to be lived down (& is highly unlikely to occur anyway >unless >one has, oh, a song on a best-selling soundtrack &/or is competely >prefabricated). things must be considerably different across the pond. > >dan _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile/mobilehotmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 02:17:10 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Strokes/Top 40 In a message dated 01/04/2003 00:11:23 GMT Daylight Time, johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com writes: > I > can remember my step father's reaction to Elvis Costello quite vividly: > 'Sounds like a load of old dustbins being banged together.' > We all remember what our Mums & dads said when we watched Top Of The Pops but less than a year ago my other half described Ian Brown "as needing a bloody good wash" ! Always look at the mother first springs to mind. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:33:35 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Wire and.... Hi Rick that's a definate 'yes!' saw them a few weeks back and they were brilliant That was not exactly a Deep Space gig but was wobble, phillip jeck and some/most of the players from Deep space, including a multi-instrumentalist playing things I couldn't name well worth a punt imo cheers A > > I was just visiting the GAMH website, at: > > http://www.musichallsf.com/calendar/index.html > > and noticed that the night before Wire plays is Jah > Wobble and Deep Space! I'm quite intrigued by that and > would like to know if any Copyists have seen them and > would give a "yea/nay" on them live. > > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:41:21 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Wire reference in... Hi Keith It was given 5 out of 5 in yesterday's (usually reliable) Metro review A > The new White Stripes is a blinder - definitely a five out of > five album > in my book. > > Another the Keith > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 02:59:24 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Strokes/Top 40 the point the reviewer of the stripes was making was that a lot of people talked up some very poor guitar bands in recent months as if this was going to be a "revolution" storming the charts , which patently isn't happening. agree with john totally that TOTP has had great moments , its just a reflection of what sells and is as bad or good as the charts on a given week. probably actually over-represents "alternative" stuff as small bands are generally available for the show in a way big american acts aren't. shame the clash couldn't see it for what it was , wouldn't a "white riot" or "complete control" on thursday early evening have been nice? sorry though i don't see the strokes at all , nice clothes but the music was like a lame blondie parody to my ears. didn't think there was much of the spirit of NYC 77 in there at all really , all too measured and knowing. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:09:46 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] ot deep space (was wire and ...) Further to my recommendation to Rick re Jah Wobble...just remembered the guest vocalist that night was one Cat von Trapp http://www.bluerhino.co.uk/catvontrapp.html anyone here familiar with her other stuff? I was very impressed ;-] later A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #93 ******************************