From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #48 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, February 18 2003 Volume 06 : Number 048 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Another "The Last Word" ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] This Heat Gig Review by Tyrone Thomas.htm//just found this.... ["david heale" ] [idealcopy] Glastonbury rumour ["Andrew Lumbard" ] Re: [idealcopy] Truce/Tedium ["Glenn" ] Re: [idealcopy] Off topic - The Work ["Mark Short" ] Re: [idealcopy] Off topic - The Work ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] Re: OVER AND OVER [HowardJSpencer@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: OVER AND OVER [MarkBursa@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:33:51 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Another "The Last Word" Rejoinder, rejoinder Lets have no no more of it Below, its below... A Terminal Hypocrite wrote > This is the last message I will ever write to Bill Hick on-list. > Good news for once! But I hope he doesn't make the mistake of thinking I can be bothered to carry on this bullshit off list. I mean I hardly relish the prospect of reading more of his relentless slander. > I aplogise for clogging up IC with such crap. > If he was really sorry he wouldn't have posted more of the same ol' shit! > This then, is the "last" word: > No, this is! > Dear Mr Hick: > I am not dear to him, that is clear! > You are the one who fills this list with "idle bitching" more than anyone. How can we quantify "idle bitching"? I usually take issue with people who have the right to reply. Funny how upsetting some of them find it. Imagine what life would be like for Courtney & Michael if they had to reply to all who slandered them! The lawyers love it! I might have 'overstepped the mark' on a few occasions, but I don't think I've ever gone as far as accusing anyone of being an accessory to murder. However, if some further clues to Kurt Cobain's suicide have recently surfaced in Wales, perhaps I'm in the dark... > One tiny post from me seems to elicit a tirade of endless, moronic, pompous > bile-speak. One stream of pompous moronic bile speak begat another... but at least it seems this one is not endless! It would've been hard to parody a pompous ass like kiddypops without writing something that seemed equally pompous! A word to those who are too dense to have noticed: I tend to treat everyone on IC with a similar level of respect with which they treat me and other people. So if you can't deal with slander, don't dish it out. >A mere mention of carrier bags and fanzine-writers and you > unleash a river of bad-spunk like Rik from The Young Ones on speed. > The phrase 'bad spunk' seems more redolent of the Young Ones character he mentions than anything I wrote, but its a long time since I watched clowns on TV! See he's never used this old boring and inaccurate comparison before has he? If the boring twerp could get a new shtick I wouldn't have to make the same ol' reply I made last time he said this about how it wasn't really much of an insult to compare someone to a comic genius. Since I was parodying him, I guess we can assume that Rick Mayall has been an influence on Kids Undetectable. > You complain about off-topic posts, you call me a Bore, Kiddypops, Chubby > Grotes (?) and other 'hilarious' nicknames. Don't make the mistake of thinking I actually care about this shit! The reason I continually take issue with this jerk is that he continually slanders me, so I respond in kind. > And yet you seem to find my posts so fascinating that you dissect every > last sentence and seem to recall shit that I posted to this list months ago. He really shouldn't Kid himself , I just refute his slanderous bullshit which he hurls about like a little p(r)ig in shit. This hypocrite would never lower himself to bringing up things someone else did years ago - hence the recent recycled carrier bag issues, refering, I think, to his observation that I put some fanzines in a carrier bag at some gig he saw me at. Kiddypops has continually made up lies and slander about me, slagged off just about everyone who's done anything interesting on the Manchester underground music scene because a few promoters have been unsympathetic to his mediocre band, slagged Jon Whitney for rejecting some half assed Autechre review he submitted to The Brain when Jon has done so much unpaid work to help the artists he likes. It really isn't much of an insult to be called 'childish' by such an immature attention seeking sulky prima donna. > Do you keep all my old e-mails in a special journal?! > No My memory functions adequately however > I find it hilarious that you attack me for such heinous crimes as Watching > Television, Wearing a Suit, Having a Job and Going to a Supermarket. Attack? Take the piss more like. He's the relentless bore who keeps on raking over such tedious old ground. It amazes me he keeps on about these tedious aspects of his mundane existance. > If this was a fucking Ozric Tentacles list or a Levellers list I could > understand it. But I never saw being into Wire as some kind of alternative > lifestyle choice. It isn't. > What does he mean by an 'alternative lifestyle choice'? Alternative to what? Will the mainstream soon be wearing tubes on heads and making bread sculpture? Maybe they'll soon use these spectacles as ploys to attempt to get us to buy more things we don't want or need? > There is also not an approved list of bands to go with liking Wire...hence > the many musical differences on this list, and within the band itself. Well now, isn't this interesting (yawn) > Never forget there are as many fans of Kylie on this list as there are fans > of King Crimson. And probably even more who don't like either? It'll probably interest no one that I have tapes of King Crimson and at least one song that Kylie sings on in my flat. Believe it or not, it seems to me that there might be more interesting and relevant topics for discussion on a WIRE list. >Thats why its such a great list. It speaks volumes about > Wire. It speaks volumes about you that you seem unable to comprehend this. > It squeaks more about this peabrain earwig that he patronises me with such a pompous, tedious, pointless, sanctimonious lecture. > I actually find it quite amusing that you find me so fascinating that you > feel the need to lambast my every post in front of OUR friends on this list. I don't find him fascinating. Its more that I find him ridiculous. I was beginning to wonder if he was some kind of masochist, however. Some people on IC are friends of mine, but most are people I've never met. > I know it pisses off other listees that we have had this endless, pointless > insult-trading thing going on for ages. Which the disengenuous Kiddypops started up again, as usual. But of course he tries to blame me for replying. >So, for them...It stops here: > How very considerate of him! > Its time you grew up KiddyGraemePops. > Hypocrite I'm sure to take his advice, after all I have so much respect for him! > You write some wonderful stuff and you could be a brilliant music journalist > if only you weren't such a Fucking Twat. > Better a Fucking Twat than a Bleedin' Arsehole... Who says I want to be a music journalist? > Don't bother flaming me on list anymore.....you'll just be pissing into > cyberspace. > I'll bet a whole heap of track6 off Power, Corruption & Lies that the hypocrite reads this on the smoe archive... > > From now on Graeme Rowland...if you have something to say about ME..you can > say it to my face. > Feel free to call into my office anytime you like (If you can get past > security!) > I'm sure it'll take all my reserves of cunning and guile to sneak past some fat old underpaid balding bore who'd rather be reading a porno mag than watching his riveting CCTV, but why would I want to see Kiddypops nauseating countenance? I'm sure I won't have to get past security next time I see his ugly face crumpling up in disgust at some rock band he hates. He'll love this band Oxbow when they tour. Just as long as he stands at the front and gives the singer the finger... Pistols or Knives? Blood at the Barbican? or is that a Line in the Sand? - ------------------------------------------------------------- NP Matmos - A Chance to Cut is a Chance to Cure ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:53:57 -0000 From: "david heale" Subject: [idealcopy] This Heat Gig Review by Tyrone Thomas.htm//just found this.... This Heat Gig Review by Tyrone Thomascheers davis in cornwall =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 In Memory of Gareth Williams Tyrone Thomas=20 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - =20 =20 London Musicians Collective=20 Charles Hayward: This Heat - Camberwell Now Discographies=20 This Heat (Italian) This Heat (German) This Heat (French) This Heat (from New Gibraltar Encyclopedia of Progressive Rock)=20 This Heat bassist RIP - 12/ 24/ 2001 This Heat - music sample downloads This Heat: Deceit The Flying Lizards: Discography David Cunningham: The Mick Sinclair Archive - from Zigzag = (September 1984 ) Wire - complete archive of images Wire by Wilson Neate PUNKNET 77 - Wire =20 Leave the East London line at Shoreditch, step a few feet, arrive = in Whitechapel's swirling cultural center, Brick Lane. Lined with = Eastern cuisine, dance clubs, trendy bars, art galleries and community = centers galore. My purpose tonight is a trip straight down memory lane. 93 East is = the venue, sat amongst the old Truman's Brewery buildings, home of my = mother's former employer until it's closure. Over 30 years on, and a lot = of changes for the better have come to the district and it is fitting = this special occasion, tonight's memorial for Gareth Williams, is held = in this unique area. 20 yrs ago, young men in charity shop suits and stern young women = sporting boiler suits and cropped hair sought a soundscape for their own = take on life. The Ramones, Pistols, and the Clash arrive faster than a = bullet, living for the moment and themselves, instant fix, instant rush, = instant high and all consumed in an instant. Shell-shocked, longer hits, = deeper meanings and music to shape the mental highs of an accelerated = culture was called for. =20 This Heat Some people experimented and experimented and . . . they = experimented but no-one followed, deduced concluded and then constructed = the much sought after soundscapes of our demanding life's like the = formidable triumvirate This Heat. With their montages of music, sounds, words and art, crafted as if = they were fire and steal forged with love and passion This Heat left a = legacy of intensity that the World's finest Industrial bands would = forever merely mimic. The 3 people who embodied this musical vision Charles Bullen, = Charles Hayward and Gareth Williams wrote intense music for a tense = nation, they mixed tape, drums, guitars, keyboards and voices on two = classic albums Shrink-wrap and Deceit =20 David Cunningham (ex-manager of This Heat) and famous for his = left-field singles such as "Summertime Blues" and "Money" (left) playing = with Paul Hood (right) Tonight two decades on and the music of all three is aired = individually in respect of the talents and achievements of Gareth = Williams. It's Gareth's friends who come to pay tributes and perhaps hint at = the source of this man's special creativity. The setting for the evening = begins with an icy drone, charmed by the sweet Indian ballad soulfully = sung by Jaya Arunagirinatham. Jaya taps out the heart felt beat, while = tabla player Rick Wilson's rhythms dance in and out of the melancholic = air. A sentimental melody, in a different language strikes a familiar = chord catching the audiences breath for a moment, perhaps a tale of life = and death? With a large rostrum of friends and performers, sets and tributes = are kept short and sweet. An audacious clarinet throttling by Pop Group = pioneer Gareth Sager follows Jaya's airy lament. He hisses, he spits, = moans and groans down the fiery tube summoning god knows what ghosts and = the rather stunned audience's attention until they too are scorched by = the dark tones. Now there's a tune you can't whistle up a ladder. By contrast Gareth Williams flowing composition sung by close = friends and fellow musicians Marie Currie, Helen East and Nick Goodal = transfuses into the heart of the evening. An exotic arrangement of = dripping vocal harmony and Gareth's, previously placed on backing tape, = mellow keyboard accompaniment. This song has no obvious references but = highlights Gareth's very eclectic wardrobe of influences. Each verses = overlaps into the cascading choruses surging beyond the constraints of = western arrangements. A flawless performance from the vocal trio neatly = leads to a comical break before fellow 'This Heat' member Charles = Hayward returns us to our musical journey.=20 Charles serves up his systemic/systematic backing tapes with his = own original accompaniments, wind instruments, keyboards and singing, = underpinned by the harsh beats of the man's truly great drumming. Mass = slogans with positive statements are juxtapositioned with the dangerous = undiluted truth. No compromise after all these years. Young and old = stand mesmerised, caught in the glare of Charles' stunning delivery. = Charles virtuosic ability to juggle rhythms, and discharge reaching = vocals has few comparisons, Robert Wyatt is cited by one of the Rough = Guides more astute editors (ain't they all sharp). The Rough Guide (for = whom Gareth and CB contributed) put together tonight's quality = poster/program. Charles' set is worthy of the effort that produced that = fine tribute. After all these sets you get feeling that the performers = do care and care a lot . . . After a pleasant stroll to take in some air l rush back in to see = who l think is 'Wire' starting an early set. As the band build their = first number my mistake is all too apparent. No! Wire's drummer hasn't = taken a ton of drugs and aged himself twenty years, it is in fact Tony = Marsh and his merry minstrels. The 2 guitars play nice cop, bad cop. One = playing melodically, while his mate picks out dry brittle stabs of cross = cutting notes. At times the guitars collide and breakdown but Tony = Marsh's bebop drumming and his able bass player keep it all tied down, = as the set reaches it's climax, brittle guitar plays a beautifully = crafted melody plucked from the ether to keep the evening special. Percussionist Rick Wilson reappears with the versatile vocalist = Viv Corringham. Viv's soaring song arches through resolved circles of = haunting fluent melodies, a graceful welcome to the final 'This Heat' = third, Charles Bullen. Dueling with clarinet the start of the set seems to stretch the = hard working sound crew as the guitar dips in and out of the mix. Mt. = Bullen's diplomatic man management soon has the balance sorted, again = the audience lurch forward, again the melodies are evolving, again the = influences are not hidden and a flowing arrangement carries the listener = on a journey, poetic and cinematic. Guitar and clarinet, tools of the = ancients, merge in the mind, creating images and emotions overlooked by = cutting edge digital media. Bring back the analogue, bring back = celluloid, the future is still catching up. It would take a certain type = of arrogance to deny the influences 'This Heat' collectively and = individually have had, but the mischief inside me cannot help thinking = what would happen if the 3 sets played tonight could be like layered on = top of each other. Perhaps the guitar has made me a tad sentimental. =20 Viv Corringham The ubiquitous Viv Corringham reappears with electronic Balalaika = player Pete Cussack. Cussack's inventive approach to playing ensures a = broad range of styles and ideas with few components. Viv`s vocal this = time is more brittle, less resolved, yet this is no Dutch concert but = concrete music, a clinical example of counterpoint and experiment. Finally 'Wire' have to go and spoil the party, blow the serene = nature of the event, pour petrol onto water and set fire to the = evening's air. It's the most outrageous punk blazing, guitar shifting, = drum driven, bass thumping, arrogant slice of Rock I've heard since the = Ramones first visit to the Rainbow Theatre god knows how many years ago. = After this set, I realize how underrated these guys have been. Despite = "I am the Fly" and the brilliant "It" album not enough attention was = given, indeed perhaps sadly like 'This Heat' you had to be in the know = to find them, due to a unnecessary lack of Press. While Gareth and his contemporaries have delivered more than their = pound of flesh to the advancement of modem arts and development of = current culture, this little baby does not end here but continues in the = work and aspirations of Gareth's friends and fellow artists. Our correspondent Tyrone Thomas=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of a_three_key_sound.jpg] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ty_gareth.jpg] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ty_this_heat.jpg] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ty_gig1.jpg] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ty_vivcorrigan.jpg] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ty_viv2.jpg] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ty_wire2.jpg] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ty_wire1.jpg] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ty_sketch.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:08:48 -0000 From: "Garry Phillipson" Subject: [idealcopy] Neu - skipping? Jason asked: "... re. debut album from Neu! At 72 to 73 seconds into the second track, "Sonderangerbot", there is a sudden sound skip..." Yep, it's on my copy too. On top of Robert Lynn's recommendations, I'd add Michael Rother's solo albums - - at least the first couple, which have Jaki Leibezeit from Can on drums - and some of Stereolab, particularly 'Transient Random Noise Bursts...etc', there are a couple of tracks on that which are basically Hallogallo with vocals on top. Garry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:28:15 -0000 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: [idealcopy] Glastonbury rumour Can anyone confirm what someone told me this morning? Wire are pencilled in for Glastonbury this year if it goes ahead. AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:32:55 +0200 From: "Glenn" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Truce/Tedium >But I hope he doesn't make the mistake of thinking I can be bothered to >carry on this >bullshit off list Good news for all. > Well now, isn't this interesting (yawn) You said it. Can we drop it now? Glenn. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:51:22 -0000 From: "Mark Short" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off topic - The Work The Work also have a track on Morgan Fisher's "Miniatures" compilation, entitled "With Wings Pressed Back". I think "Miniatures" is still available. On the strength of this I bought "Slow Crimes", but it didn't do a lot for me. If memory serves (and it is a long time since I've played it) it was a hectoring diatribe against the evils of capitalism, a sort of thinking man's Crass. Mark S > And lastly if > anyone could verify this Work discography, I'd appreciate it! Thanks for > any help, and sorry to stray so far from the topic... > > THE WORK - I Do-I Do-I Don't-I Don't 7",1980, Woof Records/Recommended > Records France, Woof001/RRF 002/7 > THE WORK - I Hate America 7" 1981, Woof Records, Woof 002 > THE WORK - Slow Crimes LP 1982, Woof Records, Woof 003 > THE WORK - The Worst of Everywhere Cassette, 1982(?), Woof Records, Woof 005 > THE WORK - Live In Japan LP, 1982, Woof Records, Woof??? > THE WORK - Rubber Cage LP, 1989, Woof Records, Woof 012 > THE WORK - See CD, 1992, Woof Records, Woof 015 > > > > Thanks! > Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:01:54 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off topic - The Work must definitely play my copy of the lp, then -- sounds right up my alley. dan, waiting with bated breath for the lack of knowledge retrospective cd to arrive in the post >The Work also have a track on Morgan Fisher's "Miniatures" compilation, >entitled "With Wings Pressed Back". I think "Miniatures" is still available. >On the strength of this I bought "Slow Crimes", but it didn't do a lot for >me. If memory serves (and it is a long time since I've played it) it was a >hectoring diatribe against the evils of capitalism, a sort of thinking man's >Crass. > >Mark S > >> And lastly if >> anyone could verify this Work discography, I'd appreciate it! Thanks for >> any help, and sorry to stray so far from the topic... >> >> THE WORK - I Do-I Do-I Don't-I Don't 7",1980, Woof Records/Recommended >> Records France, Woof001/RRF 002/7 >> THE WORK - I Hate America 7" 1981, Woof Records, Woof 002 >> THE WORK - Slow Crimes LP 1982, Woof Records, Woof 003 >> THE WORK - The Worst of Everywhere Cassette, 1982(?), Woof Records, Woof >005 >> THE WORK - Live In Japan LP, 1982, Woof Records, Woof??? >> THE WORK - Rubber Cage LP, 1989, Woof Records, Woof 012 >> THE WORK - See CD, 1992, Woof Records, Woof 015 >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:04:36 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Glastonbury rumour my god you know what this could mean.......wire on the telly. boy its been a long time coming. i think i'm right in saying the only live footage of wire ever shown in the uk was "so it goes" around late 77? be fun to see something like that........p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:39:17 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Glastonbury rumour PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote my god you know what this could mean.......wire on the telly. boy its been a long time coming. i think i'm right in saying the only live footage of wire ever shown in the uk was "so it goes" around late 77? be fun to see something like that........p could at least be on 't radio,get yer vid recorders and tape/c.d recorders ready! Ari n.p Ian Dury at the hammersmith odeon,'78 Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:39:48 EST From: HowardJSpencer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OVER AND OVER Mark/footballing list, Like a ball on a goal-line Over and Over Just below the crossbar Just out of sight* Howard *of the blind referee and his partially sighted assistant;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:01:34 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OVER AND OVER > >>Mark/footballing list, > > Like a ball on a goal-line > Over and Over > Just below the crossbar > Just out of sight* > > Howard > > *of the blind referee and his partially sighted assistant;-)<< > > We love Dermot Gallagher. We've never lost when he's been the ref.... > > Still, Harry's goal was a bit good ;-) > > Can we get to Cardiff without playing a Premiership team? > > Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #48 ******************************