From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #41 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, February 11 2003 Volume 06 : Number 041 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Right, then. To work. [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] SEND tracklisting ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Detroit? [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: Joy Division Box/mesmer [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] check smoe archive! Look it up! ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Unlimited Off Topic Hippy Blather ["Bill Hick" ] RE: [idealcopy] Pure Blind Sun Masochism (Times Four Stopping) ["Keith Kn] Fwd: [idealcopy] send rip-off on gemm [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] send rip-off on gemm [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Comparison-Oi-Calla [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Fw: Cherry Red New Releases Feb. 2003 [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] My Last Message Ever to Bill Hick ["Tim" Subject: [idealcopy] Right, then. To work. I swore off posting to the list unless I had something useful to say, as it was frequently pointed out that most of what I posted was way offtopic and I'm not so good at dealing with the flames. So, for a once-in-an-extended-period break in this policy, what are we going to do in terms of a "street"-publicity push for Send? We have at least one prominent website author (step forward Mr. Hick), and I'm sure he's not the only person involved in the media on this list... anyone out there in the press (music weeklies/monthlies) or national/serious commercial radio? As for me; I'll be advocating and pushing the Wire album within CUR1350 where I can (if nothing else, I can arrange that it winds up in the station CD library and gets reviewed by the music team; hell, I'll buy them a copy if necessary). However, I have a listenership measured in the tens or hundreds, not thousands, so the impact of these things is at best small. Maybe I can convince five or ten people to buy the record, but not enough to seriously affect its success. I'd be interested in hearing if there's anything else leveragable, though. Therefore: is there anything more orchestrated we can get up to, in terms of getting a decent push going for this record? Answers on an email to... - - Andrew - -- http://www.lexical.org.uk/ | (personal: andrew@lexical.org.uk) Earth Sciences, Univ. of Cambridge | http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - 1350MW, Cambridgeshire | archives, playlists etc @ RealAudio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ | http://www.lexical.org.uk/radio/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:35:27 -0800 (PST) From: Monochromatic Man Subject: [idealcopy] tracklisting > I take it that the inclusion of the R&B material in > the vinyl version is confirmation that even the same > songs on SEND are significantly redone... So this would mean perhaps the songs would be worth listening to? I don't know if I can bear buying another Wire cd after R&B 2. MM ===== /\ /\ /\ { o _ o }  \ _--_ / --Try it now! ) GWS Ltd http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:57:36 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND tracklisting Miles.... > I take it that the inclusion of the R&B material in the vinyl version is confirmation that even the same songs on SEND are significantly redone... Not that we were expecting any less. This is what it actually says on PE... What about Vinyl? There will be a limited edition vinyl version of "send" available and in true Wire fashion this will be an entirely separate item. In the sprit of a polar opposite to the traditional "DJ friendly triple vinyl" concept the vinyl version of "send" will be all the material from the CD release of "send" plus all of the other tracks from "read & burn 01 & 02" edited to its barest essentials. The vinyl version will be available as a separate item and if ordered on it's own will NOT be presented with the "live" CD. I'm intrigued by "all of the other tracks from "read & burn 01 & 02" edited to its barest essentials". In terms of length, instrumentation/Production or what? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:48:04 +0000 From: "Fergus Kelly" Subject: [idealcopy] "send" tracklisting Of course we know "Mr. Marx's Table" is a "new" song entirely, but there's three more titles (3, 9, 10) that don't appear on a READ AND BURN CD. Any idea if they're reworked R&B tracks or brand new songs? ///// These are brand new ones. The version of Marx is apparently quite different from the live one. Fergus "The past is no part of my future, the present is well out of hand" ps - Really like the cover artwork for "send"... simple. punchy. effective... _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:57:25 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Detroit? Robert, << not true...i lived in Detroit for a few years back in the 80's....and i can tell you that it has made great improvements since then.... >> I do know Detroit pretty well - been visiting it regularly (two or three times a year on average) since 1992, though I haven't been since '01. It certainly improved considerably during that time, though areas of the downtown are still strictly no-go. Michigan Avenue still looked as bleak and bombed-out as any city centre main street this side of Beirut. Believe me, Detroit is much worse than Manchester, which is just your average grim northern city where it rains all the time. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:17:33 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Joy Division Box/mesmer >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Joy Division Box Question ... >yeah michael, that's it. i believe it was hooky's tape of the rehearsal that >included ceremony and in a lonely place. stinks that that seems to be the >only recording they had of it. >- -paul c.d. Odd that it cuts off right before the lines about the hangman .... Thanks for the info. >From: "Bill Hick" >michael Re-Mesmered >>>>Well, I love it--one of the best of the "various avant artits" G & B have >been involved in--perhaps THE best. > >Well, I love to Disagree, >BUT >the best comp of this nature is actually >DECONSTRUCT (Blast First) > >sans Lewis but Beekeeper aplenty > >Go look at the Gilbert-Raft page of my site for the lowdown > >Also much prefer KREV X to Mesmer V (especially the Lewis & Fennesz cuts). The >Mesmertracks tend to be useful components in Beekeeper style mixes. I love to disagree too, so I will ... I'm familiar w/ both Deconstruct (which I love) and KREV X (less solid for me, but excellent at its high points) and several others (Antiphony, Antitrade are also wonderful). While they're all worthwhile, Mesmer holds my interest (and gets played) the most. I have to admit that I can't explain why--perhaps something in its atmosphere: hard to define, but certainly there. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:11:17 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] tracklisting - ----- Original Message ----- From: Monochromatic Man > I don't know if I can bear buying another Wire cd > after R&B 2. > > MM > Interesting - a dissenting voice at last. Much as I enjoyed R+B1, I found 2 to be way ahead. What was the problem with R+B2 from your perspective? Ian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:26:45 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] check smoe archive! Look it up! >>>Remesmer was not one of them, but that didn't stop Dolf Datsun. Eric Klaver made a massed deduction from the SOLI stockpiles but servant of government warmonger says he lies. /////////////////////////////////// >I'm not sure what this refers to. >Eric in Toronto It refers to the last message you posted on IC, asking me a cryptic question. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:48:40 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Fancy, choosing work over Wire Not really... Mostly IC is off topic blather, some quite tedious, some less so. All the most interesting email discourse about WIRE I'm having has been occuring off list of late. For those in need of a quick fix, point browser here http://www.posteverything.com/artists/release.php?id=3102 You can't leave now! Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:57:16 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Comparison-Oi-Calla >>>IM(not always)HO comparisons sell the artist short - unless one intends to liken to mud BUT The primary purpose of a review is to give the reader an idea of whether they'll like the music, not to stroke the egos of the artists. >>>"if you like x then..." may be instructive, but of the previous list, I rather enjoy Tarwater, Labradford leave me cold (although i appreciate their esthetic and friends), I fence sit on the Swans (my favorite album is the one MG disowns), Odd that one of the few Swans songs he plays with Angels of Light is from that very album! Actually he told me he thinks there are some really good songs on Burning World, but that his experiences with the label whilst making the album made him hate it. He's currently releasing a limited CD reissue of it on Young God. >>>I find Low brilliant, And still getting better every album! >>>The For Carnation do little for me no matter how I try, and Gastr del Sol continues to explore new synapse routes and patterns with every listen... I think the Loose Fur album is O'rourke's best poprocks one since Camofleur - although Tweedy isn't half as inventive a foil as Grubbs, he has some good songs that O'Rourke manages to lift. so WTF would calla do for me - i don't have a clue BUT surely you can work out whether it is now worth the effort of listening to some music at their website and making up yr own mind? >>>actually i have listened to Televise oince and must revisit what with all this chatter but it is the volume not the content of the chatter which gets my attention No Oi on my CD? Did you get the Jimmy Pursey remix in Chicago? >>>btw - courtney has more brains than a lot of people whose intelligence i respect - that's part of what maks her so effin miserable - Certainly she seems to have reached many more notable peaks in her lifespan than a certain Keith Astbury who clogs up this list with every last little thought relating to popmusic that enters his head. Not that I've anything against that, but when people descend to idle bitching about folk they've probably never met its probably time to SHUT UP... Go walk the dog or spank yr son or whatever it is you do offline to relax! Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:57:56 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Unlimited Off Topic Hippy Blather From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] absolutely no wire content-Re: Aldi shite...us recycles Goddamn tree-huggin' hippy crap! /Cartman off Hey Bursa! If you hate hippies so much can we assume that you'll be flogging all your Can CDs? If you're getting rid of Unlimited Edition cheap, could I have it? Wasn't the hippy hating shtick proven passe by the time Jah Wobble started making records with Holger Czukay? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:00:55 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] send rip-off on gemm No finished copies of send exist yet. The version on gemm at rip off price is a CD-R copy which is being sold at an inflated price without the consent of WIRE by someone who is abusing a position of trust. Please do not buy it. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Codeine - Frigid Stars (another band who Calla could be compared to!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:24:28 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Pure Blind Sun Masochism (Times Four Stopping) Been a bit tardy in following up on this due to new PC action (I can Read & Burn!) but I have to hold my hand up to being a snob if I like some band more than others (which seems to be the logical conclusion of Billiards' argument). But of course that's not snobbery - it's taste! I suspect at this late stage in rock history and my late stage in life history it's going to be difficult to come across someone who *doesn't* remind me of someone else. It just depends who they remind you of and frankly I don't need yet another AC/DC clone (I've had Mooney Suzuki and Terrashima thrusting their guitar heroics down my throat too recently for that). So I left before The D*ts*ns came on as foretold. The Spree were great. For about 25 minutes they rocked the world. There are two immutable rules for live bands in my book - all bands with two drummers are great and all bands with a Theremin are great. The Spree had both. There were about 25 of them and everywhere you looked on stage and in the audience there were people having fun. And although there are precursors - Hair / Atom Heart Mother / Dexy's / The Joystrings - I don't recall that *specific* mix before. Interpol were fine too. I'd heard virtually nothing before. VERY New York with a dress code (suits, ties and jumpers(?)). The bassist looked like an animated Ron Mael and could smoke for America, while the keyboard player has a haircut horror and strikes up poses. The singer is one of the most anonymous people I've ever seen on stage. Musically they are clearly influenced by the early 80s, but that's OK - we haven't had enough of that lately and with the Liars, The Faint and Radio 4 it's like the last 20 years never happened. They were less JD than I was expecting - more Ultravox and very Smiths for one song. The Thrills were dull tunesmiths in the Starsailor vein. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bill Hick Sent: 05 February 2003 19:40 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] Pure Blind Sun Masochism (Times Four Stopping) >>>I'm going on 9 Feb and on current thinking will be leaving after the Spree so that my happy thoughts are not impaired by this load of retrograde, lumpen bollocks. Interpol and The Thrills also on the bill but fortunately earlier. I don't get it... The Datsuns sound no more retro than any of these other shitty bands. If I was being charitable I guess I could use the word 'mediocre' to describe any or all of them. The eNMEy tour is always pretty desperate, isn't it? But all this Datsuns slaggery is nothing more than music snobbery, and all bands being equal, that can't be tolerated on Ideal Copy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:14:27 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: [idealcopy] send rip-off on gemm Bill Hick wrote: From: "Bill Hick" To: Subject: [idealcopy] send rip-off on gemm Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:00:55 -0000 No finished copies of send exist yet. The version on gemm at rip off price is a CD-R copy which is being sold at an inflated price without the consent of WIRE by someone who is abusing a position of trust. Please do not buy it. Amen to that! can't they be sued?Ari np:Train,the midnight moon dvd,GREAT rendition of Ramble on......(zep)Ari On a long enough time line the survival rate for all of us drops to zero.'from Fight Club' Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:52:34 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] send rip-off on gemm > >>The version on gemm at rip off price is a CD-R copy which is being sold at > an > inflated price without the consent of WIRE by someone who is abusing a > position of trust.<< > > If you read the ad it's pretty clear they don't have it at all. It will be > mailed once they get it, along with everyone else.They're just hoping some > numpty will place an advance order at four times the asking price. > > More fool them. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:23:15 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Comparison-Oi-Calla > >>>IM(not always)HO > comparisons sell the artist short - unless one intends > to liken to mud<< I doubt if many records in the Rowland collection sound much like Mud. That's neat that's neat that's neat that's neat.... > >>I think the Loose Fur album is O'rourke's best poprocks one since > Camofleur - > although Tweedy isn't half as inventive a foil as Grubbs, he has some good > songs that O'Rourke manages to lift.<< > > Like Loose Fur a lot - though it's closer to Wilco's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot > than any of JO'R's stuff, apart from the Jim-sung track, which would have > slotted straight into Insignificance. Am presently investigating Camofleur... > Jim does seem to bring a certain X-factor to most things he touches. Sonic > Youth are certainly better for having him. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:31:45 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fw: Cherry Red New Releases Feb. 2003 > >>amongst the usual cherry red dross i'm chuffed to see sudden sway's > classic "76 kids forever" getting a long-awaited reissue. played it a > couple of times over the weekend and it stands the test of time incredibly > well (not having been of any particular time when released of course). > these guys were years ahead of denim , pulp , the auteurs and all the > others who jumped the retro-chic bandwagon subsequently , sadly i think the > commercial returns never quite came their way.<< Though the WEA advance may have seen them right for a while. Looking forward to the new material, and no doubt some exciting live event... >>also i saw CR finally putting out this "junk shop glam" compilation , which is the > diammetric opposite of what the sway were up to (in all their guises they > were picking away at the lack of substance in contemporary culture , not a > major concern of Iron Virgin i somehow suspect. though i may be wrong on > this......)<< This has been compiled by Phil King (ex-bassist with everybody). I saw him last year, DJing this stuff at the ICA. Some of it is very funny - though most of the truly woeful stuff has been left off. Doubtless this will become a Pebbles-type series. > >>interesting how cherry red won't put out MZUI , which they had the rights > to , but are licensing old rough trade albums (who wire used to be signed > to). no doubt they'll be spending the usual #2.50 budget per release for > sleeve design and packaging :-)<< LTM has now developed a hard-core buyer base who buy most releases - whereas CR's catalogue is all over the place and suffers from piss-poor distribution. So the Blue Orchids go out to the same shops as Showaddywaddy. Bet there's no licencing involved with RT releases - the label as was is defunct so it's a case of tracking down the band. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 03:10:04 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: [idealcopy] My Last Message Ever to Bill Hick Hello. This is the last message I will ever write to Bill Hick on-list. I aplogise for clogging up IC with such crap. This then, is the "last" word: Dear Mr Hick: You are the one who fills this list with "idle bitching" more than anyone. One tiny post from me seems to elicit a tirade of endless, moronic, pompous bile-speak. A mere mention of carrier bags and fanzine-writers and you unleash a river of bad-spunk like Rik from The Young Ones on speed. You complain about off-topic posts, you call me a Bore, Kiddypops, Chubby Grotes (?) and other 'hilarious' nicknames. And yet you seem to find my posts so fascinating that you dissect every last sentence and seem to recall shit that I posted to this list months ago. Do you keep all my old e-mails in a special journal?! I find it hilarious that you attack me for such heinous crimes as Watching Television, Wearing a Suit, Having a Job and Going to a Supermarket. If this was a fucking Ozric Tentacles list or a Levellers list I could understand it. But I never saw being into Wire as some kind of alternative lifestyle choice. It isn't. There is also not an approved list of bands to go with liking Wire...hence the many musical differences on this list, and within the band itself. Never forget there are as many fans of Kylie on this list as there are fans of King Crimson. Thats why its such a great list. It speaks volumes about Wire. It speaks volumes about you that you seem unable to comprehend this. I actually find it quite amusing that you find me so fascinating that you feel the need to lambast my every post in front of OUR friends on this list. I know it pisses off other listees that we have had this endless, pointless insult-trading thing going on for ages. So, for them...It stops here: Its time you grew up KiddyGraemePops. You write some wonderful stuff and you could be a brilliant music journalist if only you weren't such a Fucking Twat. Don't bother flaming me on list anymore.....you'll just be pissing into cyberspace. From now on Graeme Rowland...if you have something to say about ME..you can say it to my face. Feel free to call into my office anytime you like (If you can get past security!) N.P. Supercollider - Raw Digits. Get KiddyPop Chubby Grotes in an Aldi Bag of bollocks here: http://www.kidsindestructible.com > Certainly she seems to have reached many more notable peaks in > her lifespan > than a certain Keith Astbury who clogs up this list with every last little > thought relating to popmusic that enters his head. Not that I've anything > against that, but when people descend to idle bitching about folk they've > probably never met its probably time to SHUT UP... > > Go walk the dog or spank yr son or whatever it is you do offline to relax! > > Cracked Machine > Highly Irregular Cyberzine > http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:48:51 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Comparison-Oi-Calla > against that, but when people descend to idle bitching about folk they've > probably never met its probably time to SHUT UP... WELL SHUT UP THEN. AND STOP SENDING ME MESSAGES OFF LIST. GO TRY AND YOUR BULLY BOY TACTICS ON SOMEONE ELSE. I'M NOT INTERESTED. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #41 ******************************