From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #24 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, January 26 2003 Volume 06 : Number 024 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: over-sequenced albums/LOVE [HowardJSpencer@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #23 [HowardJSpencer@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] In a Post Strummer Mood ["Stephen Graziano" ] [idealcopy] A Thing Fergus Listened To ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Kill Yourself? (yeahyeahyeah) ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] A Thing Fergus Listened To [RLynn9@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] Re: over-sequenced albums/LOVE ["Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In a Post Strummer Mood "Complete Control" was the tune that sold me on the Clash. Maybe the only time they truly realized the epic (no pun intended) size of their task, and coincidentally - it's ultimate futility. Heroic for making the effort nonetheless. sg - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Hick" To: Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:00 PM Subject: [idealcopy] In a Post Strummer Mood > Paul Rabjohn in a post-strummer mood > >>>i dusted off some old clash stuff. must say the first album still sounds > storming but am i alone in thinking "give em enough rope" sounds a bit duff as > time goes by? > > Safe European Home still sounds like one of the greatest rock songs ever to > me. > > As time goes by its the odd latenight hashpipe casualty Sandinista tracks like > Shepherds Delight, Saphire on Steel, Mensforth Hill & Version Pardner that I > go back to most with The Clash. The thing that made me burst into tears was > that line on that old 101ers tune Junco Partner they redid where Strummer > sings > > "And one year that ain't no time" > > I felt like I'd learnt something from the way that silly song touched me... > > Cracked Machine > Highly Irregular Cyberzine > http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > > Never Work for the Clampdown ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:36:15 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In a Post Strummer Mood Undoubtedly made all the better for the 'guitar hero' line. A classic example of something small...well...mattering. Keith > "Complete Control" was the tune that sold me on the Clash. Maybe the only > time they truly realized the epic (no pun intended) size of their task, and > coincidentally - it's ultimate futility. Heroic for making the effort > nonetheless. > sg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:43:23 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] William Hicks, Esq. > Bill is short for > BILLIARDS Come on Graham. I know you're just setting us up for a 'balls' gag. > A Game of Skill and Accuracy But, it must be said, a parlour game and not a sport. > (quick someone type something about WIRE and shut me up before I turn into > Steve Albini!) Gotobed. > as to whether I would be attending the upcoming Low Concert in Manchester, > it's understandable that you might be excited at > being in the same room as such a notorious Elite figure as myself Of course, Low are merely the support act... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:23:51 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In a Post Strummer Mood i find myself in the slightly unfamiliar position of enthusiastically agreeing with graeme ... as i've written before (elsewhere & possibly here as well), rope marked my intro to the clash, given my reluctance to go to the trouble of obtaining the then-unreleased-domestically s/t (student povery certainly played a part ... instead, i delayed mail-ordering any imports till chairs missing & inflammable material showed up in an ad in the back of rolling stone circa 12/78). that, in turn, means european marked my first exposure to the band, & from that opening drum-gunshot on i was hooked, though the rest of the album doesn't really hold up in comparison (few things could, to be honest). can't say i've ever sat & listened to sandinista all the way through (for want of a hash pipe, perhaps?), alas. ditto for combat & crap. dan >Paul Rabjohn in a post-strummer mood >>>>i dusted off some old clash stuff. must say the first album still sounds >storming but am i alone in thinking "give em enough rope" sounds a bit duff as >time goes by? > >Safe European Home still sounds like one of the greatest rock songs ever to >me. > >As time goes by its the odd latenight hashpipe casualty Sandinista tracks like >Shepherds Delight, Saphire on Steel, Mensforth Hill & Version Pardner that I >go back to most with The Clash. The thing that made me burst into tears was >that line on that old 101ers tune Junco Partner they redid where Strummer >sings > >"And one year that ain't no time" > >I felt like I'd learnt something from the way that silly song touched me... > >Cracked Machine >Highly Irregular Cyberzine >http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > >Never Work for the Clampdown ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:34:10 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In a Post Strummer Mood excellent song, to be sure, & of course i'm quite familiar with the scenario that prompted its creation ... though heretically enough i like remote just about as much. must go delving back into the pages of marcus gray's last gang in town to see just why the group were so adamantly opposed to its release as a single (did they simply regard it as "inappropriate"?). tangentially speaking, has anyone sat down & compared the revised & expanded (& somewhat retitled, not that i can remember the details) version of said book to the original? is it worth the money? (or perhaps we should wait for yet another edition in the wake of joe's demise ...) in the same vein, what about the somewhat recently revised edition of jon savage's england's dreaming? sat down with a copy at a local chain store a couple of nights ago & looked it over, but the only obvious differences were some discography notes about what's been released on cd in the last few years, possibly some new photos, & a new appendix about seeing some early west coast bands in the company of one mick jones. otherwise, looks to be about the same number of pages ... & speaking of post-strummer, it may not be news to anyone else, but earlier this weeks i heard, during a music news blurb on a local radio station while used-cd-shopping, jones saying joe's death wasn't really from a heart attack out of the blue but stemmed from a congenital heart condition he'd had all along & may've told mick about long ago. dan >"Complete Control" was the tune that sold me on the Clash. Maybe the only >time they truly realized the epic (no pun intended) size of their task, and >coincidentally - it's ultimate futility. Heroic for making the effort >nonetheless. >sg > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Hick" >To: >Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:00 PM >Subject: [idealcopy] In a Post Strummer Mood > > >> Paul Rabjohn in a post-strummer mood >> >>>i dusted off some old clash stuff. must say the first album still >sounds >> storming but am i alone in thinking "give em enough rope" sounds a bit >duff as >> time goes by? >> >> Safe European Home still sounds like one of the greatest rock songs ever >to >> me. >> >> As time goes by its the odd latenight hashpipe casualty Sandinista tracks >like >> Shepherds Delight, Saphire on Steel, Mensforth Hill & Version Pardner that >I >> go back to most with The Clash. The thing that made me burst into tears >was >> that line on that old 101ers tune Junco Partner they redid where Strummer >> sings >> >> "And one year that ain't no time" >> >> I felt like I'd learnt something from the way that silly song touched >me... >> >> Cracked Machine >> Highly Irregular Cyberzine >> http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine >> >> Never Work for the Clampdown ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:43:24 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] William Hicks, Esq. Keith Astbury wrote: From: "Keith Astbury" To: Subject: Re: [idealcopy] William Hicks, Esq. Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:43:23 -0000 > Bill is short for > BILLIARDS Come on Graham. I know you're just setting us up for a 'balls' gag. > A Game of Skill and Accuracy But, it must be said, a parlour game and not a sport. > (quick someone type something about WIRE and shut me up before I turn into > Steve Albini!) Gotobed. > as to whether I would be attending the upcoming Low Concert in Manchester, > it's understandable that you might be excited at > being in the same room as such a notorious Elite figure as myself Of course, Low are merely the support act... Keith,it's time you and Robert stopped picking on Graeme,you know how sensitive he is.....and spell his name right for goodness sake............Ari On a long enough time line the survival rate for all of us drops to zero.'from Fight Club' Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 01:10:41 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] A Thing Fergus Listened To >>>Brise-Glace: When in vanitas (Skin Graft) Jim O'Rourke and friends do their instrumental take on This Heat... This album was such a nightmare to track down & then when I finally got a copy it was even better than I'd anticipated. If you haven't heard the 7" they did around the same time, its kind of poppier maybe but equally excellent and all exclusive material. Also the band continued minus Jimbo as You Fantastic! and did two EPs & and an album which are maybe wierder and well worth checking out. All on www.skingraftrecords.com Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 02:27:50 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Kill Yourself? (yeahyeahyeah) >>>i like moby (& certain tracks by pink & eminem, as noted previously). shall i kill myself now? If you do, maybe you should choose music that sounds so great that you'd be happy for it to be the last thing you ever heard. A couple of days back I was walking around with 'Why Control' by Yeah Yeah Yeahs blasting from my headphones & the guitar sounded so cool I wouldn't have minded if I'd been mown down by a car - now that's a KILLER TUNE! [applause] >>>if so, hands up among those who'd condescend to consider taking on my (apparently) pathetic music collection Could you sort out the postage to the UK before you do the deed? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "Oh so wrong my lovin' goes" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 00:28:58 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] A Slightly More Serious Snake Elite >>>i don't know how the folks in low are gonna pay their bills if they're gonna try and be elite and avoid potentially larger audiences. Low aren't avoiding larger audiences - they're playing Manchester University for the third time! I expect they are happy to play to anyone who wants to listen. Even a hick from hinterlands sat in front of TOTP, Mojo mag in hand, slippers on feet, has heard of Low, so they can't be avoiding the larger audiences. As I said, the first time I saw them was at the Garage In london (supporting Come), which is perhaps the largest venue I've seen them in. I've no idea if Low were losing money playing smaller venues, but expenses for different bands vary dramatically. I know Shellac will sometimes balance off playing a tiny gig for the fun of it against a huge open air festival that brings in big bucks. I know Bardo Pond were prepared to take lower guarantees than they really needed when they toured the UK, but there are two extra people needing travel and accomodation compared to Low. Matador records is a label who are prepared to subsidise bandson tour because they know that a band will sell more records to people who've enjoyed their live show. The logistics of godspeed you! black emperor on tour (2 vans, etc) must be nigh on nightmarish... three of them slept at my flat after their first Uk gig and they had to split up over two other flats and all meet up the next day. Meanwhile I paid Melt Banana WAAAY more than their guarantee, so small gigs aren't necessarily loss makers. However, don't make the mistake of thinking about gig promotion as a way of making money unless you have control of the bar takings - that seems to be where venues make most of the money! I'm not sure if this asnswers whatever question it was you might have been asking but its probably been more interesting than what some folks saw on TV last night. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 00:44:32 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] That Lewis is a Naughty Man! Fergus supposed & conjectured >>>I imagine they want to take a breather for a while, after the fairly exhuasting schedule in the latter half of last year. Colin isn't letting up, with 4 Swim albums planned before the year is out! Bruce has threatened to blast us with the third in the latin trilogy when he's quite finished with his beautiful sounds (What is Beauty?) >>>I know Graham's dying to get back to doing solo stuff. He's a naughty man! Why not do both at the same time? Hail & Take Care appeared concurrently with WIRE! Wasn't he already making an album with John Duncan? What became of that? >>>I'd say they're concentrating their energies on The Barbican show. Send is finished now becuase the US distributore want a minimum 3 month lead in, so it's timed with the flagburning. Maybe when they get back from ATP in LA they might look at R&B03, who knows ? Then they might surprise us and get it done for The Barbican gig, though I doubt it somehow. It seems they might well be consolidating the apokalypso-digipunk aesthetic with send, and waiting until R&B03 to move on to more pastoral climes, but we'll see... Hey! I heard a funny Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:48:48 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Graeme wrote..... .... However, don't make the mistake of thinking about gig promotion as a way of making money unless you have control of the bar takings - that seems to be where venues make most of the money! which is precicely why venue owners are loathe to do this!!else THEY wouldn't make any money.Ari Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:03:17 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Thing Fergus Listened To In a message dated 1/25/03 6:46:14 PM Central Standard Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > >>>Brise-Glace: When in vanitas (Skin Graft) Jim O'Rourke and friends do > their > instrumental take on This Heat... > > This album was such a nightmare to track down & then when I finally got a > copy > it was even better than I'd anticipated. If you haven't heard the 7" they > did > around the same time, its kind of poppier maybe but equally excellent and > all > exclusive material. Also the band continued minus Jimbo as You Fantastic! > and > did two EPs & and an album which are maybe wierder and well worth checking > out. All on > > www.skingraftrecords.com > > and by the way, if anyone is interested in finding any of the the You Fantastic stuff let me know....a friend of mine used to room with Tim Garrigan, one of the members...they lived across the hall and one floor down in my building....Tim moved to New York but my friend has tons of extra copies of their material lying about...i believe he still has a lot of by Panicsville (a cut-up noise group much like Nurse With Wound) as Andy Ortman used to live on another floor in the very same building and they occasionally played shows together...i believe a Panicsville 7" was recently reviewed in WIRE magazine....AND, if any of you are looking for anything from the Skin Graft label drop me a line...all of it is fairly common to find around here as one of the owners, Mark (his last name escapes me) used to live here and most of the Skin Graft bands play here frequently....i see the Bris-Glase "When in Vanitas" cd in bargain bins all the time..... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 03:26:57 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: over-sequenced albums/LOVE > The wire related album on which, to be, you can really hear the > early-version > cubase bars and strict quantize is Oracle's Tree. This was obviously an > important album in Swim's foundation and in pointing Colin and > Malka in the > direction they would go musically, but it isn't one that I go > back to much. > The album may also suffer from the flat sounds of the early off the peg > soundcanvas-type desk top music modules. Soundwise, these were a > real step > backwards from what had gone previously. > > On a completely different subject - Arthur Lee (of Love)'s name > came up here > - I think it was an NME article being cited which implied a > certain lack of > modesty and a wish not to play his back catalogue. I saw him in Brighton > last Monday and would recommend the London show on the 3 Feb to > anyone who > likes Forever Changes. There were some dodgy Dadrock moments, > but overall it > was worth about a hundred million Interpol gigs, and I left moist > eyed. > Saw him in Manchester tonight, and it was a great. The crowd chanted his name like at a football game... 'Arthur Lee Arthur Lee Arthur Lee' The 'dadrock' moments all seem to be related to the session-muso on lead guitar. He insisted on 'updating' all of the guitar solos to sound like 80s poodle-rock. At times he obliterated the sound of the String/horn section. As he did this he moved centre stage and grimaced without irony, so we could all see how much soul and passion he was putting into his unwelcome fretwankery. Fortnately, towards the end of the gig I hurled an original copy of 'Forever Changes' towards the stage and everyone laughed as the spinning vinyl disc scythed his head clean off. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:10:12 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: over-sequenced albums/LOVE by far the funniest thing i've read all day. not that the competition was particularly stiff -- my former employer's sports section (this week they finally got around to noticing i'm no longer getting a subscription via payroll deduction & so have sent out 4 renewal notices in 3 days ... yeah, right -- you'll get one dime from me about the time gilbert & lewis go on tour with the dave matthews band) & the first chapter or so of "more than merkle: a history of the best & most exciting baseball season in human [as opposed to animal, vegetable or mineral?] history." haven't gotten around to reading today's comics yet ... still, i rather doubt you'll be topped. dan . > >Fortnately, towards the end of the gig I hurled an original copy of 'Forever >Changes' towards the stage and everyone laughed as the spinning vinyl disc >scythed his head clean off. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:17:38 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Kill Yourself? (yeahyeahyeah) >>>>i like moby (& certain tracks by pink & eminem, as noted >previously). shall i kill myself now? > >If you do, maybe you should choose music that sounds so great that you'd be >happy for it to be the last thing you ever heard. might something off peace love & pitbulls' "3" qualify as a contender? i ask only because this evening i played, for the first time, my newly acquired used copy of said album. first thing of theirs i've heard ... initial impressions never make much of a dent in my scar-toughened eardrums, but i did notice what struck me as some promising evocations of "dustbowl"-era head of david. alas, the place where i picked the pl&p up was broken into new year's eve & suffered major theft, & (not having read tonight's e-mails a couple of days ago, obviously) i'm not sure those 3 or so you fantastic cd's are still there. *sigh* A couple of days back I was >walking around with 'Why Control' by Yeah Yeah Yeahs blasting from my >headphones & the guitar sounded so cool I wouldn't have minded if I'd been >mown down by a car - now that's a >KILLER TUNE! i'll have to go dig their ep's back out -- can't really remember any of the songs by title right now ... quite a bit of good stuff on those 2. am eagerly awaiting the album-in-progress. > >[applause] > >>>>if so, hands up among those who'd >condescend to consider taking on my (apparently) pathetic music collection > >Could you sort out the postage to the UK before you do the deed? will get right on that. could take ages, though. dan > >Cracked Machine >Highly Irregular Cyberzine >http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > >"Oh so wrong my lovin' goes" ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #24 ******************************