From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #21 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, January 23 2003 Volume 06 : Number 021 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] In action delivers ["Fergus Kelly" ] [idealcopy] Reliable witness ["Fergus Kelly" ] Re: [idealcopy] Reliable witness ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] Elitism ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] "I saw Vladislav Delay in a telephone kiosk once...." ["Bill ] [idealcopy] Elitism II ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Boredom ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] No No No Mr Suit (Wrong Ref) ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism II [rayographique ] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism [rayographique ] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism II [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [idealcopy] MES of yer Calendar (Easter in Reverse?) ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] I can hardly wait to hear ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Elitism [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:56:11 +0000 From: "Fergus Kelly" Subject: [idealcopy] In action delivers Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:06:00 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lock up your hats and ibtaba is my favorite of the 80s, except for the brilliant snakedrill 12", a perfect record. ///// Bloody Hell, how could I forget Snakedrill ? The one magnificent exception to what I'd been talking about... Fergus " Ya tulip !! " _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:51:04 +0000 From: "Fergus Kelly" Subject: [idealcopy] Reliable witness A word or two from the horse's mouth, so to speak ;-)... History Damn History :) I think Fergus put it very tactfully! Although in the end the problem with the 80's material in sound terms is that the sequencing/ sampling was kind of 'stuck on'. If the band had all lived near each other and we9d have had the money to have our own studio then it might have turned out different. As it was there was no real agreement as to how to deal with this method of working. I think the closest we got with this way of working was the rough mixes of the WIR album (before anybody else got involved) - Otherwise we were always in the act of 'being produced' and in some cases almost incidental to the process. I actually did leave the band during the making of the ideal copy but it had nothing to do with what kind of recording technology we used.... It's possible the current material will sound 'very g4' in the future but despite the amount of process I think we have retained a fairly organic feel to the material plus have hopefully avoided too many 'protools-isms' in the process!! ///// Yep, as I said, it sounds very spontaneous, fresh, and invigourating ! BTW - Send is actually finished (but not manufactured yet) - I am holding off making any announcements about it as we need to have all details about MO availability (especially date) made obvious with the announcement or else Duncan is just going to get bombarded with endless enquiries about when it will be available. If you can make this information available to IC list with the disclaimer I would be grateful, oh and one other thing. The exclusive Mail Order item available with send? A live album (mixes from the Metro in Chicago 2002, I have the multi-track but didn't do mixes yet) that's right you get 2 albums for a tenner from posteverything so weep Amazon :) ///// Nice one Colin - stick it to the man !! - - I am happy for people on the IC list to know this BUT they must be patient and wait for the official announcement and NOT send Duncan e.mails. The way I want to set it up, the day the announcement is made is the day you can order it!! C. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:47:22 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Reliable witness first off, that's great news, obviously -- infinite thanks to fergus for passing it along. second, this may've been asked & answered here before, but if so i missed it -- how does this relate to the (perceived?) plans for r&b's 3 & 4, or does send supplant them? dan >A word or two from the horse's mouth, so to speak ;-)... > > >History Damn History :) > >I think Fergus put it very tactfully! Although in the end the problem with >the 80's material in sound terms is that the sequencing/ sampling was kind >of 'stuck on'. If the band had all lived near each other and we9d have had >the money to have our own studio then it might have turned out different. As >it was there was no real agreement as to how to deal with this method of >working. I think the closest we got with this way of working was the rough >mixes of the WIR album (before anybody else got involved) - Otherwise we >were always in the act of 'being produced' and in some cases almost >incidental to the process. I actually did leave the band during the making >of the ideal copy but it had nothing to do with what kind of recording >technology we used.... > >It's possible the current material will sound 'very g4' in the future but >despite the amount of process I think we have retained a fairly organic feel >to the material plus have hopefully avoided too many >'protools-isms' in the process!! > >///// Yep, as I said, it sounds very spontaneous, fresh, and invigourating >! > >BTW - Send is actually finished (but not manufactured yet) - I am holding >off making any announcements about it as we need to have all details about >MO availability (especially date) made obvious with the announcement or else >Duncan is just going to get bombarded with endless enquiries about when it >will be available. If you can make this information available to IC list >with the disclaimer I would be grateful, oh and one other thing. The >exclusive Mail Order item available with send? A live album (mixes from the >Metro in Chicago 2002, I have the multi-track but didn't do mixes yet) >that's right you get 2 albums for a tenner from posteverything so weep >Amazon :) >///// Nice one Colin - stick it to the man !! >- I am happy for people on the IC list to know this BUT they must be patient >and wait for the official announcement and NOT send Duncan e.mails. The way >I want to set it up, the day the announcement is made is the day you can >order it!! > > >C. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:46:12 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Reliable witness >A word or two from the horse's mouth, so to speak ;-)... > > That's superb news! In fact, I'm sending an e-mail to Duncan at PostEve.... Okay - Just kidding! I will wait patiently until I get permission to order! Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:49:54 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Elitism Tim Robinson, the Chubby Grotes of Ideal Copy, spluttered >>>The perfect size for elitists......(I SAW IT FIRST! ITS MINE!!!) If it wasn't for The Elite, the boring bozos would just have to make do with Kyliepops and Mobytronix all day. However, there is something to be said for proximity, epecially with a band as intimate and hushed as Low. This has nothing to do with elitism or the timeframe in which the band is experienced. The perfect size for a Low gig was actually the Star and Garter which has a capacity of 100 (although more can squeeze in and squeeze they did when I invited Melt Banana to tear the roof off). There Low played the most mesmerising version of Transmission. Unfortunately larger venues tend to attract the disco weekend mating audiences who talk loud during the bands. This doesn't matter with a sleek juggernaut like WIRE, but can ruin the atmosphere for the pin drop tension of Low. I didn't see Low at Briton's Protection first. I saw them support Come at the Garage, when Kramer was doing their sound. memory is hazy but I might even have been taking the tickets on the door for one or other of Low's first couple of Manchester gigs as a favour to my friend who put them on. It doesn't make them my slaves. Get over it. I'd ask who Gareth Keenan is, but I have this feeling that its of absolutely no relevance to my life whatsoever David Keenan's a talented guitarist though As for the best recent example of so called 'music snobbery' on IC, refer back to astburys' slagging of Judas Priest a week or so back (if you are desperately bored - something along the lines of all their fans being thick - having talked to Michael McKeegan and Andy Cairns of Therapy? several times, I can assure you that bit of snobbery is bullshit) and sort out your own issues before infering your bullshit projections onto me, you relentless drag Cracked Machine Elite Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:51:53 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] "I saw Vladislav Delay in a telephone kiosk once...." It Was Not Soon There >without the chairs and tables and where I > put on a Labradford / Stars of the Lid gig where something like 100 people > squeezed in. >>>This sounds like reverse/inverse-snobbery one-up/downsmanship. "I saw Vladislav Delay in a telephone kiosk once...." No, it sounds like someone who did something to help a couple of bands he liked to the best of his ability at pretty short notice. If you feel this is something that ought to be ridiculed, then I pity you. The gig happened because when I spoke to Mark Nelson just before they played a free gig in a disused East London synagogue, he told me they had a days downtime on the short Uk tour that was happening about a month later, and they'd be happy to play anywhere, even someone's living room! The Briton's Protection was the only venue available. [WIRE ref - they couldn't keep that Godfather Gilbert out of the holy dome - he was at the Labradford synagogue night of course] The Labradford gig was not an ideal situation, but a very memorable unique event. The tiny venue made Stars of the Lid seem overwhelming, with films of trees snaking over walls. Carter Brown decided the stairs were too narrow for his piano to fit so they left it in the van and instead of playing the two songs that required it, we got two semi-improvised spacecraft lift-off feedback instrumentals. This is something they did more early on but probably never do now. I saw Vladislav Delay at the Contact Theatre doubtless long before Robinson ever heard of him... it wasn't very memorable. I believe it was a Pelicanneck records event, which happened before I told Tim about Manchester's exp-elec-indie-bleep-glitch record store (who also run the Boomkat site). Some of us are better connected than others. Get over it. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:56:34 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Elitism II >>>). how can bands afford to play (or clubs afford to host) when only 50 tickets can be sold? Because The Elite are prepared to put on gigs that make a loss because they love the music so much These losses can sometimes be recouped by the occasional larger gig that makes a modest profit Imagine a band so dedicated to their art that they could bear to forego the holy profit motive! Such people really exist! Sorry Paul, I'm just not in the mood to answer your question with the sensibleness it deserves after having to swim through a sea of bullshit from elsewhere. Maybe later. What about me? Can I get in for free? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:00:44 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Boredom >>>> Obviously some of us have very different ideas of what a tiny venue is. >Some of us have very different ideas to you, period You mean you actually had an idea? When was that? Do you think you'll have another one? >>(or 'Full Stop' as we say in Engarland Vurgleland) Don't give up your fascinating day job for a career in comedy >Shame on you Keith for not having a son with an extensive knowledge of the capacity of obscure Mancunian music venues. No, shame on Tim Robinson for being such an odious bore with a lame sense of humour Seen any good clowns on TV? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:01:53 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] No No No Mr Suit (Wrong Ref) >>>The redone Mr Suit was the highlight of Brighton for me - I don't think ACDC is the right reference but I can't think who is at present. I haven't actually heard ACDC since the dawn of the grunge era when I cohabited above a TV repair shop with a Pure Maths PHd professor pot dealer Green Party candidate who had a full set of Doors albums, all the early ACDC, Neubauten's Richterskala, Coil's Horse Rotorvator, Radio Ethiopia, most early Floyd and that Queen album with the poster of a plethora of naked ladies on bikes. His favourite albums in my collection proved to be 154 and Husker Du's Zen Arcade. Perhaps the New Bomb Turks cover of Mr Suit was a reverse influence. I know Colin liked that version. I think that version of Mr Suit seems the crappiest thing WIRE have played since 2000, but I've only heard a recording and wasn't at the gig. It was always one of my two least favourite tracks they included on an album. I don't like ACDC either. Hellway to High! Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Hecker - Sun Pandamonium (www.mego.at) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:02:24 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Nailed Me to a Tree What have you got in that paper bag? >>>I have been enjoying the conversation here. Almost everyone does seem to like Cabaret Voltaire! >>>In my next life I want to live in Manchester. Trying to find a clue Looking for a way to get out! >>>(I'm a rabid Fall fan as well) I'm telling you now and I'm telling you this Hope you got to see them back in a former life when they were still vital! Tongue Horns Belched Fire Soundtracks; Mulched Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:16:00 -0800 (PST) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism II - --- Bill Hick wrote:... > What about me? > Can I get in for free? You are on the list ;) (plus 1 - no backstage access) Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:35:32 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism umm ... i like moby (& certain tracks by pink & eminem, as noted previously). shall i kill myself now? if so, hands up among those who'd condescend to consider taking on my (apparently) pathetic music collection ... i know, i know -- "get over it." dan >Tim Robinson, the Chubby Grotes of Ideal Copy, spluttered > >>>>The perfect size for elitists......(I SAW IT FIRST! ITS MINE!!!) > >If it wasn't for The Elite, the boring bozos would just have to make do with >Kyliepops and Mobytronix all day. However, there is something to be said for >proximity, epecially with a band as intimate and hushed as Low. This has >nothing to do with elitism or the timeframe in which the band is experienced. > >The perfect size for a Low gig was actually the Star and Garter which has a >capacity of 100 (although more can squeeze in and squeeze they did when I >invited Melt Banana to tear the roof off). There Low played the most >mesmerising version of Transmission. > >Unfortunately larger venues tend to attract the disco weekend mating audiences >who talk loud during the bands. This doesn't matter with a sleek juggernaut >like WIRE, but can ruin the atmosphere for the pin drop tension of Low. > >I didn't see Low at Briton's Protection first. >I saw them support Come at the Garage, when Kramer was doing their sound. >memory is hazy but I might even have been taking the tickets on the door for >one or other of Low's first couple of Manchester gigs as a favour to my friend >who put them on. > >It doesn't make them my slaves. >Get over it. > >I'd ask who Gareth Keenan is, but I have this feeling that its of absolutely >no relevance to my life whatsoever > >David Keenan's a talented guitarist though > >As for the best recent example of so called 'music snobbery' on IC, refer back >to astburys' slagging of Judas Priest a week or so back (if you are >desperately bored - something along the lines of all their fans being thick - >having talked to Michael McKeegan and Andy Cairns of Therapy? several times, I >can assure you that bit of snobbery is bullshit) and sort out your own issues >before infering your bullshit projections onto me, you relentless drag > >Cracked Machine Elite >Highly Irregular Cyberzine >http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:31:24 -0800 (PST) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism MnM is comin' to kick yer ^$$ - --- dan bailey wrote: > umm ... i like moby ... time to get this party started... Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:54:38 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism II In a message dated 1/22/03 5:09:13 PM, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: >>>>). how can bands afford to >play (or clubs afford to host) when only 50 tickets can be sold? > >Because The Elite are prepared to put on gigs that make a loss because >they >love the music so much > >These losses can sometimes be recouped by the occasional larger gig that >makes >a modest profit > >Imagine a band so dedicated to their art that they could bear to forego >the >holy profit motive! Such people really exist! i understand that, and i'm actually "with" that. it's just the way the posts unraveled made it sound like that was THE gig they did that year, and the next year played to a larger audience due to an increase in popularity. sorry to bring up the police again, but i did see them in a small club, not on one of their first tours of the u.s., but the night after they headlined madison square garden for the first time. i don't know how the folks in low are gonna pay their bills if they're gonna try and be elite and avoid potentially larger audiences. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:03:48 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism In a message dated 1/22/03 5:09:47 PM, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > >Unfortunately larger venues tend to attract the disco weekend mating audiences >who talk loud during the bands. This doesn't matter with a sleek juggernaut >like WIRE, but can ruin the atmosphere for the pin drop tension of Low. this is absolutely true. if they choose to continue playing small venues, i wouldn't be surprised if the fans end up paying (literally) for it. - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:34:25 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] MES of yer Calendar (Easter in Reverse?) >>>The nearest they have come to collaborating is that MES once left his false teeth in the glove box of BDB's car. Not a pleasant thought, and surprisingly MES never asked for them back.... This is true. Honest! Damon Gough plays guitar on Calendar from one of The Fall Masquerade CD singles Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:47:00 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Off Topic Bullshit, As Usual Discussing the late replacement options for that long gone drunken Mojo of the Lederhosen who burbled and slurred for The Doors when he wasn't trying to whip out his wang, as one often does when one is confronted with the conversation of a newsgroup purporting to be about WIRE, one can find oneself writing a sentence which is way too long and nebulous BUT anyone who thinks The Voice of The Daleks would be a worse choice than Paul Young for anything other than perhaps public EXTERMINATION has a dodgy grip on totality Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:16:25 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] No You Wouldn't Like It, Sir Could he mean Tim Robinson? >>>I'm sure he is annoying as hell, but the music is so > bland it goes completely uunnoticed. Might as well release silent CDs. Try listening to some CDs by Francisco Lopez and Bernard Gunther... actually half of you lot probably shouldn't bother Leave them for Cracked Machine Elite Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:03:02 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Peel Sessions next week People Like Us Tuesday Low Thursday Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:15:53 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] I can hardly wait to hear what the new CD is going to sound like! Fergus might already have told you but Colin would like y'all to know that "Send is actually finished (but not manufactured yet)" However please don't bombard posteverything with enquiries about its release (surely the upcoming Doors tour will have most of you too occupied anyway?) The exclusive Mail Order item available with send? Take It Away Mr Newman: "A live album (mixes from the Metro in Chicago 2002, I have the multi-track but didn't do mixes yet) that's right you get 2 albums for a tenner from posteverything so weep Amazon :) - I am happy for people on the IC list to know this BUT they must be patient and wait for the official announcement and NOT send Duncan e.mails. The way I want to set it up, the day the announcement is made is the day you can order it!!" Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Sigur Ros - () Does anyone else think this album's title is actually a representaion of the female genitals? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:38:44 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism all the more so, probably, when he realizes that (unlike moby's latest & a couple of the earlier ones) i made a point of buying his discs used so neither he nor his record company would make a red cent from my baffling tastes ... dan, who figures that if robert smith & morrissey (& for that matter mes & *anybody*) can co-exist in the same collection, so can moby & mr mathers >MnM is comin' to kick yer ^$$ >--- dan bailey wrote: >> umm ... i like moby ... > >time to get this party started... >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:10:43 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism In a message dated 1/22/03 8:04:11 PM, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: >i made a point of buying his discs used so > >neither he nor his record company would make a red cent well, that's only if you buying the used disc didn't prompt the store to order more copies... which can and does happen. - -paul (let em eat mp3s) c.d. p.s. the item in parentheses is meant to celebrate artists who offer mp3 music for free, not piracy :o) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:37:51 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism > >>dan, who figures that if robert smith & morrissey (& for that matter mes << > > > Hell that's one supergroup. Smith, Smith & Smiths. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:45:53 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Elitism In a message dated 1/22/03 8:39:09 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: >> >>dan, who figures that if robert smith & morrissey (& for that matter >mes << >> >> >> Hell that's one supergroup. Smith, Smith & Smiths. >> >> Mark can tv, patti and elliott get in on that too? a real supersmith group - -paul (when i was a kid i had an lp by "a group called smith" but i don't remember what they sound like) c.d. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #21 ******************************