From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #20 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, January 22 2003 Volume 06 : Number 020 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] shreiking pisspost and versital discus [rayographique ] Re: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] shreiking pisspost and versital discus [Ari Britt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:30:48 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds Hi Dan Just came across the Pavement DVD 'Slow Century' 6 Hours of stuff...$20...looks good later A > -----Original Message----- > From: dan bailey [mailto:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: 21 January 2003 00:48 > To: ideal copy > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds > > > thanks much. wonder if here are the young men (which i've > never owned in any > format) has come out? also, i see by one on-line seller that > the fall seem > to have a fiend with a violin disc, but as questionable as > all those cd's > (which of course i own) are ... > > dan > > > > > > > >> >>anyone have any suggestions about particularly worthwhile > >> music-related dvd's?<< > >> > >> New Order's 3:16, containing the 1981 'Taras Shevchenko' > NYC gig, and the > >> 1998 Reading Festival gig. > >> > >> Mark > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:19:29 +0000 From: "Fergus Kelly" Subject: [idealcopy] Lock up your hats Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:00:28 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Another the Wireview Fergus' review / potted history was a good read but I was left curious about one thing - are the comments about WIRE's 80s oeuvre now the band's party line or do you really think the recordings suffer from the heavy studio process? ///// I do think some of the material suffers, because the sampling and sequencing technology was still in its early days, it was harder to use, the process took longer, and, consequently, the spotaneity was lost. The Ideal Copy is a case in point, as it really drove them up the walls, 3 hours to record a bassline etc., Colin on the point of quitting (the point of collapse?), he was so pissed off with the whole thing. Of course, you have to add to the problem the fact that it was their 1st LP in 8 years, and the technology changed the way one operated, so they were trying to negotiate very difficult terrain. Though I like this LP for the most part, I do think it sounds very sequenced, in a way that doesn't do justice to the original songs, which I heard live, June 86, and thought they were great - they had a freshness and immediacy that just got lost in the recordings, which I felt were very 'quantized' and pop-ified. The technology betrays itself in a way that dates the material very quickly. ABIAC took this further in a way I didn't like, apart from Follow The Locust and Boiling Boy. IBTABA took this even further in a way that was pretty awful for the most part. Manscape and Ist Letter are very patchy. I like about 4 - 5 songs from each at most, particularly 'Craftsman's Touch' and 'Tailor Made'. Though the 70s LPs are a different kettle of fish, I think they age better, for some reason. Compare for instance the awesome timeless flawless immaculate album version of Feed Me to the very ropey live rendition on the Ahead 12". ///// Here's a another case in point of over production, the guitars suffering from a slight case of 'reverb-itis', very 80s. But this is tempered by the fact that I've never really liked this song. It does go on a bit, and Graham's vocals are laboured. I always skip past it on the CD. WIRE recordings of the 80s stand tall, head and body towering way above dated old plopbassers like A Certain Ratio and Shriekback. ///// They stand tall because they are Wire, not because of production values (everyone was dealing with this with greater or lesser degrees of success), even though they are not the best examples in the Wire canon, they would always be far more interesting than the aforementioned bands. Though I do have a soft spot for 'Sextet', but after that ACR became incredibly pedestrian. It's funny how the R&B material is the most processed stuff they've ever done in terms of it's construction for CD, it's amazing how spontaneous and vital it sounds. It just shows how technology has really moved on from the early days. That said though, we'll probably look back on thr R&B 'period' as very G4-ish... Fergus _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:45:32 -0800 (PST) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] shreiking pisspost and versital discus i too have a fond spot for sextet and one for jam science as well that the latter has not (to my knowledge) been reissued in it's original formation is a glaring omission of 80's nostalgia as to the DVD recommendations, Spinal Tap is a marvelous package (and i understand the rare and pricy criterion collection version is even sweeter) also, the marvelous thing about newer cheaper DVD players are for the most part avtually versatile in that they do a nice job with mp3s and vcds as well Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:56:53 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - not Astbury but... >The Rubettes are out on tour as we speak! no...Keith...please...no...just don't go there...please... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:27:24 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] just say no to the jukebox jive Oh alright. And I had my white cap and falsetto voice all ready to go! > >The Rubettes are out on tour as we speak! > > no...Keith...please...no...just don't go there...please... > > ian.s.j. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger > http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:32:44 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: RE: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds I'd recommend the Train dvd,also the Bands the last waltz,and don't forghrt to get Dark City,best sci fi since blade runner..........Ari Alistair Tear wrote:From: Alistair Tear To: "'dan bailey'" CC: "Wire (E-mail)" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:30:48 -0000 Hi Dan Just came across the Pavement DVD 'Slow Century' 6 Hours of stuff...$20...looks good later A > -----Original Message----- > From: dan bailey [mailto:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: 21 January 2003 00:48 > To: ideal copy > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds > > > thanks much. wonder if here are the young men (which i've > never owned in any > format) has come out? also, i see by one on-line seller that > the fall seem > to have a fiend with a violin disc, but as questionable as > all those cd's > (which of course i own) are ... > > dan > > > > > > > >> >>anyone have any suggestions about particularly worthwhile > >> music-related dvd's?<< > >> > >> New Order's 3:16, containing the 1981 'Taras Shevchenko' > NYC gig, and the > >> 1998 Reading Festival gig. > >> > >> Mark > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:30:40 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds Indeed it is. All the videos, an hour long documentary with some footage of the last ever gig at Brixton and two extended gig highlights from 99. Highly recommended if you're a Pavement fan. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alistair Tear To: 'dan bailey' Cc: Wire (E-mail) Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds > Hi Dan > > Just came across the Pavement DVD 'Slow Century' > 6 Hours of stuff...$20...looks good > > later > > A > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dan bailey [mailto:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net] > > Sent: 21 January 2003 00:48 > > To: ideal copy > > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot -- dvds > > > > > > thanks much. wonder if here are the young men (which i've > > never owned in any > > format) has come out? also, i see by one on-line seller that > > the fall seem > > to have a fiend with a violin disc, but as questionable as > > all those cd's > > (which of course i own) are ... > > > > dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >>anyone have any suggestions about particularly worthwhile > > >> music-related dvd's?<< > > >> > > >> New Order's 3:16, containing the 1981 'Taras Shevchenko' > > NYC gig, and the > > >> 1998 Reading Festival gig. > > >> > > >> Mark > > > ************************************************************************* > The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any > warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of > this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended > recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that > any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is > strictly prohibited. > > If you have received this e-mail in error please notify > postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the > presence of computer viruses. > ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] shreiking pisspost and versital discus I have both the Arista and the Yrecords (Kaz ) version od Jam Science on c.d if you'd like a copy drop me a line.Ari rayographique wrote:i too have a fond spot for sextet and one for jam science as well that the latter has not (to my knowledge) been reissued in it's original formation is a glaring omission of 80's nostalgia as to the DVD recommendations, Spinal Tap is a marvelous package (and i understand the rare and pricy criterion collection version is even sweeter) also, the marvelous thing about newer cheaper DVD players are for the most part avtually versatile in that they do a nice job with mp3s and vcds as well Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:06:00 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lock up your hats In a message dated 1/21/03 10:20:25 AM, fkelly88@hotmail.com writes: >IBTABA took this even >further in a way that was pretty awful for the most part. and ibtaba is my favorite of the 80s, except for the brilliant snakedrill 12", a perfect record. > That said though, we'll probably look back on thr R&B 'period' > >as very G4-ish... ya never know, but as of now i don't mind looking at anything as g4-ish! :o) - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:21:47 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lock up your hats Not that anyone asked for it, but here are some of my opinions. Take with whatever grains of salt you wish. (^_^) 8< quotes edited for space and size - not for content. >8 >The Ideal >Copy is a case in point, as it really drove them up the walls, 3 hours >to record a bassline etc., >Though I like this LP for the most part, I do think it sounds very >sequenced, in a way that doesn't do justice to the original songs, >which I heard live, June 86, and thought they were great >ABIAC took this further in a way I didn't >like, apart from Follow The Locust and Boiling Boy. IBTABA took this >even further in a way that was pretty awful for the most part. Very Interesting. As a member of the 80's Wire Aficionados Sub Group(TM), I have a different take on these records. Bearing in mind that the first Wire I ever heard was "The Ideal Copy" - which, incidently, turned me into a rabid Wire fan (^_^), and is probably still my favorite Wire album - I find ABIAC to be a great CD. Maybe not quite as immediate as The Ideal Copy, but wonderful, nonetheless. IBTABA ups the ante considerably, and I rate it as almost as highly as The Ideal Copy. Also in contention for best Wire recordings in my headspace are Read & Burn 01/02, 154 and (I know it's not Wire, but..) Colin's A-Z. I remember the first time I heard the Ideal Copy, I was stunned how amazing the drum sounds were. I remember thinking, "How did they record a drum kit so cleanly?" It wasn't until I read some interviews where Wire described their recording techniques that it made some sense. (i.e. a combination of sequencers & live drums and, on later albums, drum machines triggered from sequences input from drum pads.) >Manscape and Ist >Letter are very patchy. I like about 4 - 5 songs from each at most, >particularly 'Craftsman's Touch' and 'Tailor Made'. Manscape is *very* patchy for me. I've listened to it less and less as time has gone by. Still, I think I might be missing something on this record - someday I'll listen to it with fresher ears. The Drill starts out quite strong, and then kinda loses momentum. But, the one/two punch of the first two songs is still incredible. The second half of the First Letter is quite strong, too. I rate the First Letter pretty highly - maybe not quite on par with the others I mentioned above - but certainly up there. >Though the 70s LPs are a >different kettle of fish, I think they age better, for some reason. Hmm - not so much for me. 154 as I've mentioned rates pretty highly, and I know how important the first two records are, etc. but - to be honest - I very rarely play the first two albums, unless I'm in a certain mood - then they're all I want to listen to. I do like how Wire has re-invented the material from this period, though. The new version of Pink Flag, for example, made me go back to the first record to find out what else I was missing. Obviously, I need to go back and listen some more! (^_^) And I should mention that I find *all* of Wire's albums to be excellent in comparison to other artists' albums. I'm only comparing Wire albums against each other in this e-mail. The ratings scale would be very different if I were to include other groups. (^_^) I am very excited with what Wire is doing now, BTW. Read & Burn 01 was great, and I think that Read & Burn 02 is, in some ways, even better. I can hardly wait to hear what the new CD is going to sound like! Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #20 ******************************