From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #423 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, December 21 2002 Volume 05 : Number 423 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Khnopff / Blaggers ["frederik jensen" ] Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Khnopff / Blaggers ["frederik jensen" ] [idealcopy] flag:burning (accommodation) [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Rothko ["Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Khnopff / Blaggers ok bart -- i may have to give you that at the very least you really are convincing!! which i think is maybe unfortunate for me.... > >> To reconnect to music, I suppose one could say he's the This Mortal Coil [or > >> DCD] of painters, don't you think? > > > as for a parallel in music, actually im not so sure about either tmc or dcd: > > dcd strive for some perfection found beyond our own petty time... > > but the vocals of lisa gerrard sure can sound like some archaic background > > found in at least one khnopff painting > > Wich one do you mean? I suppose for me it's the zenlike serenity of TMC and > FK what made me put the two together... just an association. > ohh cant remember its title, but its the one where the sister and and sphinx -- with the head of the sister! -- is placed in some archaic landscape... some greek pillars in the background i think.... did we mention that she is a beautiful woman? she is! fk maybe thinks she is _hauntingly_ beatiful? > > but there is nothing tragic about tmc > > They're indeed a cheerfull bunch: > > "There's no light at the end of it all > Let's all sit down and cry > There's no light at the beginning > Let's all sit down and cry" > argh... ok - you got me there but... to quote from you: "zenlike quality"... is there anything at all _tragic_ about _zen_? i sure do need to be brushed up on the foundations of zen... is it a japanese escape mechanism -- or a way or life that lets you feel you have contact to something bigger than yourself? also, when sung by rema-rema, there's an irony with the lines delivered! it sure it a song with lyrics "over the top" and that really shines through in the performance... "fond affections are never said/but only sung in songs/" which is something that is not found in the tmc cover version. "fond affections" is indeed one of my own favourites from tmc #1... but they make it truly beautiful, dont they -- and i never thought of anything tragic: ah, the irony and tragedy! they dont coexist in the cover version. come to think of it, is there in fact just _one_ song with tmc that is ironic? i cant think of one -- its all about being friendly with whatever ghosts there is in the closet.... > > i think the parallel to khnopff would have to be some two faced joker, both > > serious and wacky, beautiful and ghostly... > > Hmmm, where I was comparing the athmos in the paintings you seem to compare > his persona. Ok, Frank "Nimrod's Son" Black perhaps? > well i always do that -- doesnt the painter shines through his painting? at least, when he only populates his paitings with his sister, surely there must be something personal about it! > > now who could that be? how about the eg lewis found on "pre>he" and "hail"? or > > maybe the song "what do you see" from manscape: > > So, what's Lewis' sister called then? ;-) > very funny... maybe sweden was in fact not a choice but a must in order to not going insane? > > "look to the right/ fields on fire/ look to the left/ what can you see?/ a > > mint green bathroom/ a wall less house/" > > Yeah, but WHO set the fields on fire? Here's a little insight from the > official Graham Lewis site [or Lord Blagthorp, Blaggers to his friends] > http://www.grahamlewis.com > ok ok - i surrender, dont tell me more, though, i never conceived of a wire song as childhood memories to me lewis' songs always were about something like "safe or insane"; with a lot of weight on my part on the insane part -- or should that just be pieces of a "puzzle of reality" put together in a unconventional manner? im sure to check out that site; didnt know of its existence! > Isn't that a bit of a paradox as we're living in post surrealistic times? how are we living in post surrealistic times apart from the obvious fact that it originates from the 1920s? > I found this odd with lots of paintings I saw as reproductions first. > Last summer e.g. it was great to see the Tate Modern's Rothko paintings live > and in real size. > oh, dont know sizes of rothko paintings; i somehow think have to be large, at least 1.5 by 1.5 metres - in order to depict the "void" landscapes found in colour mixing!? _dont_ tell me they small!? > But I bet you've seen Khnopff's Memories when you were in Brussels [Musies > Royaux des Beaux-Arts de Belgique], a large pastel of 127 x 200 cm [had to > look that one up] http://artmagick.com/paintings/painting161.aspx > What this link does not tell that it was his sister he painted 7 times on > the same canvas here. > yes, youre right "the tennis game" i think its called, and yes, i have it on a postcard.... its still a very beautiful painting full of longing... maybe the ball so the game can begin? > Haven't seen too many other live ones yet, ... not untill the coming > Groningen exhibition that is, wich I'll tell you all about untill you turn > green with envy Frederik and untill I've bored the rest of you out of your > pants. > please do tell when the time comes.... green with envy already! i wish you a merry christmas, frederik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:36:59 +0100 From: "frederik jensen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Khnopff / Blaggers ok now im truly baffled after having visited www.grahamlewis.com ??????? where the story from? > Yeah, but WHO set the fields on fire? Here's a little insight from the > official Graham Lewis site [or Lord Blagthorp, Blaggers to his friends] > http://www.grahamlewis.com > > "when i was about 13 me and a couple of my mates went camping and tecking > for a week with no adults. well about two days in we bought sum lighters and > matches. as we were traveling we found a really dry grass field. we decided > that cos there were these little tuffts of gras on mounds we would have sum > fun. so i went on to the tuffts setting fire to them and my 2 mates would > stamp on them to put them out so i went round setting fire to these mounds > and my mates were stamping on them but they werent totaly puting them out. > we went all the way round the field doing this. we soon realised that the > whole FIELD was ON FIRE so we legged it. when we got home (this is the best > bit) i was sitting to dinner with my mum and she showed me the article in > the paper about it. then she said and i quote "im glad you boys arnt like > that" > > "There were no walls in the dome, no place for Billy to hide. The MINT GREEN > BATHROOM fixtures were right out in the open. Billy got off his lounge chair > now, went into the bathroom and took a leak. The crowd went wild." > > "A WALL-LESS HOUSE may be romantic, but it's not practical, especially in a > world of crime and foul weather" > frederik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:49:42 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] flag:burning (accommodation) It might be worth checking out for those needing a room for the night this is v close to the Barbican as this link to the map will show http://go.vicinity.com/sixcont/bidMap.d?BID=LONCT&brandname=_express later A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 06:05:56 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Khnopff / Blaggers In a message dated 12/20/2002 4:36:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, frederik_jensen@get2net.dk writes: > ok now im truly baffled after having visited > www.grahamlewis.com ///what a splendid site. good to see he's invested the proceeds of his career so wisely given the recent increase in value of the UK property market , clearly a perceptive cove. anyway , i caught the new C4 music show (oh dear) born sloppy the other night. hey , just what we needed , a lamer version of TFI Friday featuring sara cox. still they had BRMC and electric soft parade so i guess there is a fair chance of decent-ish bands on as it progresses. just have the fast forward to hand..... "murray st" the album of the year? better than RnB? gawd i don't think so. most over-rated maybe. certainly prefer the flaming lips effort , looking forward to that tour backing/supporting beck which sounds like it might be a good night out. looks like radio 6 blew wire out and its not been re-scheduled. shame , a good quality ATP set would have been great. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:46:10 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Khnopff / Blaggers On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 06:05:56AM -0500, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/20/2002 4:36:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, frederik_jensen@get2net.dk writes: > > > ok now im truly baffled after having visited > > www.grahamlewis.com > > ///what a splendid site. good to see he's invested the proceeds of his career so wisely given the recent increase in value of the UK property market , clearly a perceptive cove. That site is *superb*. Suitably bowdlerised information obtained via: andreww@colon:~ 501 $ :; whois grahamlewis.com Organization: Graham Lewis Graham Lewis 34 St London, E14 UK Phone: Email: support@popbox.net (I've snipped to mung it a bit.) Does this look like "our" Graham? I thought he lived in Sweden... - - Andrew - -- http://www.lexical.org.uk/ | (personal: andrew@lexical.org.uk) Earth Sciences, Univ. of Cambridge | http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - 1350MW, Cambridgeshire | archives, playlists etc @ RealAudio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ | http://www.lexical.org.uk/radio/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 07:03:36 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Khnopff / Blaggers In a message dated 12/20/2002 6:46:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > Does this look like "our" Graham? I thought he lived in > Sweden... ////probably claiming to be a uk resident as the tax levels are much lower here than sweden. smart businessman :-) ? p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:18:33 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Rothko In a message dated 12/20/2002 9:43:01 AM GMT Standard Time, frederik_jensen@get2net.dk writes: > >>oh, dont know sizes of rothko paintings; i somehow think have to be large, > at least 1.5 by 1.5 metres - in order to depict the "void" landscapes found > in colour mixing!? > > _dont_ tell me they small!?<< Rothko's canvases are enormous - maybe 4m x 3m. They fill entire walls. I used to love the Rothko room at the old Tate gallery in London - a big, high ceilinged room with four or five Rothkos in it. Not seen them in the new Tate Modern but there is certainly the space there to do them justice> > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:19:16 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Khnopff / Blaggers In a message dated 12/20/2002 9:47:31 AM GMT Standard Time, frederik_jensen@get2net.dk writes: > >>ok now im truly baffled after having visited www.grahamlewis.com > > ??????? > > where the story from?<< > Clue - it's not *our* Graham Lewis! > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:03:40 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Rothko In a message dated 12/20/2002 9:18:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, MarkBursa writes: > I > used to love the Rothko room at the old Tate gallery in London - a big, high > ceilinged room with four or five Rothkos in it. Not seen them in the new Tate > Modern but there is certainly the space there to do them > justice> > > > Mark /////i went there a couple of weeks back. lovely building and they really do it justice. i had vaguely imagined this would be more "m0dern" than the "old" Tate but that's not really how they've done it , still plenty of more trad artists alongside the modernity. and the rothko room is very good indeed. and of course its free. so no excuse not to pop in for a look. nice cafe too. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:12:56 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Niblock >From: Bart van Damme >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Niblock > >>> Let me guess Michael, you're a SY fan? ;-) > >> Oh ... they're OK .... :) > >> You missed one--Thurston and Jim are on the Niblock (although you can't >> tell that it's them, and I'm a Niblock person anyway ...). > >Haven't heard of Niblock before, but I'm curious to hear what it's like. > >Bart Graeme R. might be able to describe this better, but I'll give it a shot: Phill Niblock is one of the original minimalist composers (he is older than La Monte Young, and has been at it at least as long). His works are dense, hynotic drones that often (usually) leave the instrumentation almost impossible to distinguish. His works is notable for its complete lack of drama or Romantic pathos, which is NOT to say that it lacks emotion--but that the emotions are not "worn on the sleeve". I have everything he has released, and they only improve w/ familiarity. Before 1990 he had only released 2 albums due to his dissatisfaction w/ vinyl--in terms of both sonics and time constraints. In the past decade or so he has been releasing material continually and, I believe, in a tortoise-and-the-hare senario, his music may outlast minimalism big four, Young, Reily, Glass, and Reich (all of whom I like). I base this prediction on the simple fact that he seems to me to have had a greater influence on the current generation. He's also the only one who still makes my top 5 every year w/ new material :) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:43:15 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Rothko Whereas I really dislike the Rothko room in Tate Modern. The room in the old Tate was like a sacred space and could be really peaceful because it was a room you either chose to enter or not whereas the current one is a walkthrough room and is full of people walking in, judging they're not interested in these blocks of colour and walking out again, many of them talking all the while. It's impossible to get any contemplation going in there at a busy time (which is most of the time) and Rothko needs - and deserves - that quietude. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: > > /////i went there a couple of weeks back. lovely building and they really do it justice. i had vaguely imagined this would be more "m0dern" than the "old" Tate but that's not really how they've done it , still plenty of more trad artists alongside the modernity. and the rothko room is very good indeed. > > and of course its free. so no excuse not to pop in for a look. nice cafe too. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:51:48 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [only slightly OT] Rothko another the keith writes: >a > >walkthrough room and is full of people walking in, judging they're not > >interested in these blocks of colour and walking out again, many of them > >talking all the while. It's impossible to get any contemplation going in > >there at a busy time (which is most of the time) and Rothko needs - and > >deserves - that quietude. yep. it's hard to cry when people keep walking in front of your rothko. good thing about his work, though, is something a professor of mine once said..."if you're in an elevator and the doors open and outside is a rothko, by the time the doors close you've seen the painting"...and this is meant with all sincerity as a compliment to rothko. it's not a "seen one, seen em all" put down. i think when you see his work, even briefly, you're able to absorb it's essence. you're not going to make out the subtleties, brushstrokes or runs in the paint, but the feeling they evoke is immediate. his stuff has always stayed with me, and i'm certainly not looking at it all the time. maybe i have a "predisposition" towards feeling his work? kinda the way i connected with joy division and then new order i think. hm. - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:49:54 -0500 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] Goat Smell (OK--I'm a bit behind) This is unfortunate, Miles. When I see Crimson here in San Francisco there is a showing of these nerdy goat men but they aren't in the majority. There are certainly a lot of men who perhaps were goat boys who grew up, got real jobs, wifes (they come to the shows) and children; but there's also a lot of young punks and a significant number of young, fetchin' women. The Crimson audience has expanded. Don't remember seeing dwarves . . . . Robert (another) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: drummers Also for what it's worth, Crimson fans tend to be men. The one show I saw of theirs (2001, one of the weekend of "warmup" shows at 12th & Porter here in Nashville) was 99% male. And not just any males, but adult males who still had the goat smell common of adolescent boys (no wonder there were no women with them!), and who made extremely pun-nerful, painfully nerdy, unfunny heckles at the band, then looked at each other proudly seeking "I just out-geeked you!" affirmation. Lots of pre-show talk among them about hardware (guitars, amps, etc.). Oh, and dwarves. Dwarves like Crimson. There were at least four at that show, and they weren't there as a group or anything, and there wasn't a "little people" convention in town. They'd come there separately, of their own accord, drawn by the flurry of 1/64th notes or the hypontic lure of 9/22 time, or the goat smell. It was the most dwarf-intensive show I've ever seen. later, Miles> *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. 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