From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #419 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, December 17 2002 Volume 05 : Number 419 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Fwd: Re: [Shriekback_Digital_Conspiracy] Aaron wrote/Wired.com news [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Aging 'Punks' Hit My Fave North Wales Seaside Resort ["Ke] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Khnopff [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Aging 'Punks' Hit My Fave North Wales Seaside Resort [Bar] Re: [idealcopy] flag : burning [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] [now definitly-OT] i dream of Colin[s]...and Bar ry [Ali] [idealcopy] flag:burning [Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: Re: [Shriekback_Digital_Conspiracy] Aaron wrote/Wired.com news Anyone know 'bout this? Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 19:45:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Shriekback_Digital_Conspiracy] Aaron wrote/Wired.com news - --- Ari Britt wrote: > which is exactly why people no longer buy c.d's in the volume > they used to,when will the labels (re)learn that we don't > want to pay for an album that has only one or two good trax on > them??????/Ari - ---they go to places like WinMX and d/l only the songs they want. I just read on wired.com that folks in the European markets (predominantly in the UK, France, and Germany) are starting to get billed for "peer to peer" music downloads without their prior knowledge...has this happenned to anyone?? ===== "Religion is for people who are afraid to go to hell, Spirituality is for those who've been there.." - Danielle Dax Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com If we stand together long enough and in the right place, perhaps the accustomed fog will lift and we will glimpse whole new planets and, further off, the unfamiliar stars. ~~'Shriek Without End'~~ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:01:57 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [now definitly-OT] i dream of Colin[s]...and Barry >> Thnx Paul, for pointing this out though I kinda knew these things - just >> jesting about the JR thing ;-) [another the] Paul: > ;o) 'course i knew you knew. i just saw it as an opportunity for me to create > a post about the subject of many of my pre-pubescent dreams, and then some! > between barbara eden and julie newmar (hey, who wouldn't wanna be?) Hmmm... I'll let you of the hook this time Paul ;-) Given a choice I would pick Julie Newmar anytime. On a similar subject, to open their Femmes Fatales (1860-1910) exhibition the Groninger Museum have managed to catch Joan Collins for the grand opening. It opens January 18th and stars major symbolist painters as Gustave Moreau, Max Klinger, John William Waterhouse, Fernand Khnopff and Edvard Munch [wich were all faves of mine when I still was a young and romantic dude - still like 'em]. Great stuff for all you Goths out there. http://www.groninger-museum.nl/gm/ie4/open.php?section=tentoonstellingen&sub section=tentoonstellingen&itemID=1145 [hey, it's in english!] > i'm surprised i had time for any other television. well, there was elizabeth > montgomery. anyway, it would've been cool to see 70's tv characters gettin > down to the lowdown, etc... > while i'm busy (heh, i almost made a freudian typo and typed 'busty') so, > while i'm busy thinkin back about whether any reaaaallly good music featured > on 70's or 80's american tv, maybe one of you copyists across the pond could > tell us if wire ever actually did appear in any interesting tv, film, etc., > back in the day. I don't know of any Wire examples, but your mail brought me back thinking of tv-tunes fragments wich kinda stuck with me. Something like 70s cultseries The Persuaders immediately comes to mind [starring Roger Moore and Tony Curtis]. It certainly boasted one of television's most memorable theme tunes. Written by [who else?] John Barry [as I later discovered]. Cheers another the "busty" Paul! ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:51:00 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coleman Falls: Video Death >>>Does anyone remember David Thomas on a late night TV show judging other bands' promo videos? He kept getting up and switching the videos off after a very short time. Recall both Mark E Smith and Jaz Coleman employing a similar tactic, and Jaz had the most vitriolic critiques of all the crap they were making him watch of anyone I've ever seen on TV.<< It was Night Network on Channel 4. This was a significant programme in the UK as it was the first all-night TV show (circa 1987). Previously the telly shut down about midnight. The BBC played the national anthem, and then showed Testcard F until it started again in the morning. Not with breakfast TV. Oh no, that only started in the early 80s. With schools programmes at about 10AM. MES on Night Network once stopped a video immediately because "the bass player had a pony tail". Check out the current Fall bass incumbent's tonsure next time you see 'em. Yep, pony tail. Standards are slipping-ah. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:06:27 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Aging 'Punks' Hit My Fave North Wales Seaside Resort Keith Yes, I too am rather partial to MGE and The Black Album (though not the original double - I've got the Big Beat reissue). And like yourself I don't bother with anything else of theirs. Last time I saw them was at Leicester University many years ago with Vanian and Scabies in the same line up. A truly dire version of L A Woman was included in the set of what by this time was mostly cover versions. Only ever seen one band in Llandudno - Half Man Half Biscuit - but that's another story. Cheers John http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ >From: "Keith Astbury" >To: >Subject: [idealcopy] Aging 'Punks' Hit My Fave North Wales Seaside Resort >Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 16:00:44 -0000 > >OK the common consensus is that The Damned released two great singles and a >great adrenaline rush of a debut album. And then it was all downhill from >there. And that they ceased to matter in 1976/1977/1978/1979 etc (delete as >appropriate) > >But as someone who loves at least two thirds of the Stooges-do-Panto >Machine >Gun Etiquette and who adored the goth pop fest of The Black Album, I've >never >subscribed to that view (though once Sensible left, so did I - >figuratively >speaking). > >Anyway, I saw the current version - Sensible, Vanian and his Mrs (Sister of >Mercy Patricia Morrison), etc in a small club a couple of years ago, and >they >were still entertaining in a nostalgic kind of way - opening with New Rose, >they played just about every oldie you would expect and new material was >kept >to a minimum. > >Last night couldn't have been more different. Playing at a conference hall >in >Llandudno (North Wales finest seaside resort!), they played a set that was >heavily reliant on last years surprisingly decent Grave Disorder, and were >probably all the better for it. Sure you still got a few oldies - Neat >Neat >Neat and I Fall off the mighty debut, that great trilogy of 45's from 1979 >(Love Song, Smash It Up Pts 1 & 2, and - dedicated to Liam Gallagher - I >Just >Can't Be Happy Today!), Disco Man and Nasty - but quite a few live faves >were >missing. No Wait For The Blackout, no I Feel Alright, no Looking At You and >- >amazingly - they didn't play one of the greatest singles ever IMO. That's >right, no New Rose! (though in a musical equivalent of prick teasing, we >got >Vanian muttering "Is she really going out with..." over the NR drum beat, >before the bastards went into something else. Still we got a two minute >version of Happy Talk, so that's OK!!! > >But whilst they weren't as great as they used to be - although I'd seen >them >in 1977, it was between '79-'81 that they were just about as good a live >band >as you could get IMO - they were still as entertaining as you could wish >for. >Vanian was looking great (the man must have had surgery!), Morrison >admirably >showed her hefty thighs to the world and there was some curly haired bloke >jumping up and down behind the keyboard like a complete knob. But the main >man >for me was, as always, the good Captain. Few people exude charisma on stage >quite like him - and the man's certainly a contradiction. So whilst he >looks >ridiculous in a kilt and the obligatory red beret, he wears a "Don't Attack >Iraq" T-shirt. And though he plays lengthy guitar solo's himself, he takes >the >piss out of Clapton... But what a showman - I can't help thinking this has >been his downfall though. If he wasn't such a dick then people might have >given him more credit for his Glad It's All Over pop gems. Still, what I >find >so entertaining about a bloke in his 40's flashing his arse and grinning at >the "Sensible's a wanker" baiting audience, I don't know. But I do! Lowest >common denominator stuff maybe, but LCD stuff of the highest order. And >sometimes that's great. > >So The Damned don't matter. So what. Fuck The Datsuns. If you want cartoon >Stooges and a good night out - The Damned are still the ones to see... > >The support act Retalik was terrible BTW. Listening to her mock-operatic >wails >over some lousy backing tape, seven words kept springing to mind. Rocky >Hazel >Wilcox Horror Toyah O'Connor Show. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. If >I >tell you that the best thing about her set was her exposed midriff (sorry >ladies!) and watching two young lads attempt some Cossack dancing, you will >- >if you hadn't already - get the picture! > >Keith _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:30:39 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coleman Falls: Video Death > Yep, pony tail. > Standards are slipping-ah. Had a giggle at this Mark [and was coincidently playing New Face in Hell reading it]. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 10:45:47 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Aging 'Punks' Hit My Fave North Wales Seaside Resort >Keith > >Yes, I too am rather partial to MGE and The Black Album (though not the >original double - I've got the Big Beat reissue). And like yourself I don't >bother with anything else of theirs. though keith *does* mention being pleasantly surprised last year by grave disorder, as was i (i put it in my top 5 for the year, along with pulp's we love life, bis' return to central, the latest le tigre & something else that fails to come to mind, though stereolab's sound-dust didn't miss by much ... this year promises to be a struggle, though if [as i suspect] the subtonix & radar secret service albums came out in '02 i've at least got 2 top spots nailed down, & of course the latest mekons warrants more listens). only just acquired strawberries & the bbc sessions of the damned, so haven't had time to form opinions on them yet. > > >>From: "Keith Astbury" >>To: >>Subject: [idealcopy] Aging 'Punks' Hit My Fave North Wales Seaside Resort >>Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 16:00:44 -0000 >> the good Captain. Few people exude charisma on stage >>quite like him - and the man's certainly a contradiction. So whilst he >>looks >>ridiculous in a kilt and the obligatory red beret, he wears a "Don't Attack >>Iraq" T-shirt. he did, after all, record a single on crass back in the early '80s ... almost certainly the only "big name" (unless one also accords that status to honey bane, a dodgy proposition at best) to have ever done so. dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:24:00 +0100 From: "frederik jensen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [now definitly-OT] i dream of Colin[s]...and Barry hi bart... > On a similar subject, to open their Femmes Fatales (1860-1910) exhibition > the Groninger Museum have managed to catch Joan Collins for the grand > opening. It opens January 18th and stars major symbolist painters as Gustave > Moreau, Max Klinger, John William Waterhouse, Fernand Khnopff and Edvard > Munch [wich were all faves of mine when I still was a young and romantic > dude - still like 'em]. Great stuff for all you Goths out there. > i _never_ would have thought i would see the name FERNAND KHNOPFF mentioned on a music list! god i love those paintings.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:29:54 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] flag : burning I'll be somewhere in seats R26 - 31, so I should see you Andrew. I've just organised 12 tickets for my posse, who'd better pay up soon or I'll be on the streets by January. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Walkingshaw To: Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] flag : burning > On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 09:33:07PM +0000, ian.s. jackson wrote: > > hello people... > > > > i can hardly contain myself...i've just booked my stalls tickets for the > > Barbican... > > <- P28. 25 quid. OW. It's a rarity you get to see something like this, > though :) > > - Andrew > > -- > http://www.lexical.org.uk/ | (personal: andrew@lexical.org.uk) > Earth Sciences, Univ. of Cambridge | http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ > DJ, CUR1350 - 1350MW, Cambridgeshire | archives, playlists etc @ > RealAudio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ | http://www.lexical.org.uk/radio/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:47:18 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Aging 'Punks' Hit My Fave North Wales Seaside Resort John... > >Yes, I too am rather partial to MGE and The Black Album (though not the > >original double - I've got the Big Beat reissue). Only track they played off that was - bizarrely - 13th Floor Vendetta. (Under the Floor Again off Strawberries was another unexpected oldie. Also played Ignite.) > And like yourself I > don't bother with anything else of theirs. I've got most of their early stuff to be honest John, but obviously some is better than others (It's no secret that Music For Pleasure is not a classic second album!). I *love* Damned Damned Damned though, and Strawberries has got some good poppier moments. Dan... > though keith *does* mention being pleasantly surprised last year by grave > disorder It's certainly better than I'd realistically hoped for. (You tend to buy albums by old faves - Wire apart - more in hope than expectation) But...it's a real grower. Fave track is probably Neverland, which I recently discovered was originally on a solo Sensible LP. The good thing about the other night wasn't just that they didn't just churn out the oldies (don't get me wrong, I would have been happy with that, but in a different way), but that the stuff off Grave Disorder sounded even better live. John again... >Last time I saw them was at Leicester >University many years ago with Vanian and Scabies in the same line up. A >truly dire version of L A Woman was included in the set of what by this time >was mostly cover versions. I only saw them without Capt once - back in '85 and they didn't really do anything for me even then. But getting him back on board - even without Rat - is obviously the difference. But then I think that under the dickhead exterior Mr Sensible is a really good songwriter - often in a Fried period Julian Cope sort of way. (He did once jest about forming a band with Cope and Robin Hitchcock and calling themselves the Syd Barret Experience!) Dan again... > he did, after all, record a single on crass back in the early '80s ... And what a single! John... > Only ever seen one band in Llandudno - Half Man Half Biscuit - but that's another story. Only other gig I saw there was Dexys 20 yrs ago in their rag and bone period! They were superb. Excuse me if I've mentioned this before, but halfway through Come On Eileen, Rowland tried to tell the audience to shush, but they kept on chanting "Come On Eileen, Come on eileen" over and over till Rowland exploded. "Why you just fuck off and listen to the record"!!! What a charmer! Looks nice in a basque mind ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:26:44 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Khnopff > i _never_ would have thought i would see the name FERNAND KHNOPFF mentioned on > a music list! god i love those paintings... That's me, mr. OT! ;-) Good to find another admirer Frederik. You're from Danmark right? So it seems you'll be able to visit the exhibition without too much trouble. To reconnect to music, I suppose one could say he's the This Mortal Coil [or DCD] of painters, don't you think? Belgium strikes again! In this article here [lotsa pics] he's quite reasonably compared with Burne-Jones: http://www.hardy.free-online.co.uk/stonehorse/symbolists/khnopff/khnopff.htm Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:58:21 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Aging 'Punks' Hit My Fave North Wales Seaside Resort John: >> Last time I saw them was at Leicester >> University many years ago with Vanian and Scabies in the same line up. A >> truly dire version of L A Woman was included in the set of what by this >> time was mostly cover versions. Keith: > I only saw them without Capt once - back in '85 and they didn't really do > anything for me even then. But getting him back on board - even without > Rat - is obviously the difference. But then I think that under the dickhead > exterior Mr Sensible is a really good songwriter - often in a Fried period > Julian Cope sort of way. (He did once jest about forming a band with Cope > and Robin Hitchcock and calling themselves the Syd Barret Experience!) Only saw 'em once in 1979 [Machine Gun Etiquette was just out] at Het Paard van Troje in The Hague [where I lived then]. It was the best and heaviest punkconcert I've ever seen. Saw every corner of the place due to an all pogoing crowd. Never seen anything like that before [I was 16] and though a bit scared it was one big adrenaline rush. At one point Vanian tried to hush the crowd when the Captain tried to set in Smash It Up [part 1 - you know the quiet part], but the crowd just went ballistics. One of the best concerts I ever witnessed. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 03:15:06 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] flag : burning Boys seats P-31 and P-32.Looking forward to it. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:36:06 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [now definitly-OT] i dream of Colin[s]...and Bar ry Didn't surprise me as much as seeing Joan Collins' name mentioned on the IC list...:-I A i _never_ would have thought i would see the name FERNAND > KHNOPFF mentioned on a music list! > > god i love those paintings.... > > > On a similar subject, to open their Femmes Fatales > (1860-1910) exhibition > > the Groninger Museum have managed to catch Joan Collins for > the grand > > opening. It opens January 18th and stars major symbolist > painters as Gustave > > Moreau, Max Klinger, John William Waterhouse, Fernand > Khnopff and Edvard > > Munch [wich were all faves of mine when I still was a young > and romantic > > dude - still like 'em]. Great stuff for all you Goths out there. > > > i _never_ would have thought i would see the name FERNAND > KHNOPFF mentioned on a music list! > > god i love those paintings.... > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:43:07 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] flag:burning All, seats 30-31 front row of the circle all together now...'he's behind you!' well it is the panto season... later A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #419 *******************************