From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #390 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, November 20 2002 Volume 05 : Number 390 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Robert the shoe vs. Bill the bug [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] OT:What's your spam ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Immersion ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Neubauten Live ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] German Ship ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Dictation (A Line in the Sand?) ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Dictation (A Line in the Sand?) [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] nme top 100 singles [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:13:19 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Robert the shoe vs. Bill the bug Those of you without fast cable...give it time to fully load. it's worth the time. http://media.smilepop.com/smilepop/flash/10_2002/sept02-smilepop-bugseren2.swf Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:36:25 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] holland set.. ........did anyone download a good copy of the concert?I seem to have lost the link.Ari Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:01:29 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT:What's your spam > p.s. honestly, i am listening to turns n strokes and that song came on as i > got to voyteck's post about spam, hehe. i think we know where you're coming from ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:30:30 -0600 (CST) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] Re: What's your spam? From: keith.astbury10@virgin.net (Keith Astbury) Date: Tue, Nov 19, 2002, 11:01am (CST+6) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT:What's your spam p.s. honestly, i am listening to turns n strokes and that song came on as i got to voyteck's post about spam, hehe. i think we know where you're coming from ; ) Where, the root of all spam? Suspicious of the anonomous square retentive overdue for a colonic ... no finger pointing, just master the art of stopping. Have we had enough fun yet? voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:11:11 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] holland set.. >>........did anyone download a good copy of the concert?I seem to have lost the link.Ari<< here you go... http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/events/default/smil/audioparts.sram?2534202+86831 06+8683149+9324524 Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:29:45 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Mute Wire EMI >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mute Wire EMI > >>>> i had heard some rumbling that the final 'album' culled from R'n'B 1-n >would be on a 'major'. Assuming a major would compensate them fairly - >something which >I am certain you all know is not always the case - seldom, even.<<< >Big labels still work on the basis of advance-in-return-for-multi-album >deals. I'd guess Wire have no need or desire to get involved with that again. > >Mark Robert Fripp has been using majors as a distributor--no advance, no future albums, just a straight deal for percentage. Granted King Crimson is a slightly better selling band than Wire, but not by much. A deal like this could get their album into places Pink Flag can't, which might appeal to them (I really have no idea). Just a thought ... Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:12:35 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Immersion >>>what kind of thing was the "low impact" techno Immersion made? I'm very into Boards of Canada and similar at the moment, Low Impact and Oscillating by Immersion are way better than BOC, who seem cliched in comparison These two Immersion CDs are the best of Colin Newman's outofWIRE output, essential listening. The Immersion remixes are less rewarding: why tamper with perfection? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:13:53 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Neubauten Live >>>i never got the live neubauten one, or the bad seeds one either (there is a bad seeds live album, right?). can anyone recommend (or discourage) buying those? There are now at least 2 Neubauten live albums, as well as the raw early material on 2 By 4 which is worth hearing if you like Strategies 1 & Kollaps, the've just released a double live CD 9-15-2000 Brussels, which I picked up in Zardoz, Hamburg, which largely features better versions of tracks from the last couple of albums, clearly improved by extensive touring, but also a fair few Tabula Rasa tracks and even Yu Gung, but sadly Headcleaner is omitted. Of course Strategies Against Architecture 2 & 3 also feature many live tracks and are fine compilations. Actually Neubauten have also just reissued Richterskala, Patienten OT & Halber Mensch in digipacks with extra tracks. Live Seeds is well worth hearing if you like Henry's Dream as the live versions of all the songs from that album have way more energy and fire. The version of the Mercy Seat is also pretty different. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:21:02 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] German Ship Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:20:57 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Berlin Drill Resurrection In a message dated 11/14/02 3:27:41 PM, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: >In the Art of Stopping (a hole in the art) >>>is that good or bad? it was amazing in ny I did say it was the best gig I'd ever seen... Best version of it I've seen in Berlin. Often Colin's messed that one up a bit with the ridiculous hand held mike vs thrashing headless guitar antics but it was blinding in both Berlin and Hamburg and seemed maybe a little faster than the recorded version. 1st Fast and Germ Ship have definitely sped up. The only song which will probably never quite match up to ATP is I Don't Understand as Colin seemed really angry there and it made that song much more fierce. I've never seen Colin look so pissed off as he did on stage at ATP w/e 1. Only slight hitch I noticed in Germany was Colin's guitar strap failing briefly during Hamburg Germ Ship, but it almost worked like a dub with the bass springing out of the mix to save the momentum while Colin quickly caught up. > >Drill (back from the dead) >>>oh man oh man! describe PLEASE! was it like 2000? did graham play much of the melodic part? do tell Drill has changed shape quite a bit since 2000, but I find it hard to describe exactly how. It seems as fast but a bit less furious, and some words have reappeared. The ending doesn't seem as clear cut anymore. In 2000 Colin just shouted the 'Could this be a?' line and it climaxed. Its more like it was at the ICA, but perhaps it was a little shorter, with Colin cutting up the end words of each line: level trip split rotate eddie spin. Hamburg Drill ended when Bruce walked off pretty soon after someone chucked a beer at him, although he said the two events were entirely unconnected. Graham was last to arrive and last to leave. He placed a red/green stop start light on his amp prior to 99.9. I asked Graham about the reasons for ditching Drill before Berlin and he said something along the lines of loving something so much you began to hate it and that they all felt it needed a rest... Advantage in Height was also strangely Drill-like in Hamburg, but like most songs I heard the best version of it I've ever witnessed in Berlin. Berlin Highlights: Germ Ship, Reuters, Advantage Hamburg Highlights: Spent, Pink Flag Bruce said he has no idea if a gig has actually been any good. Meanwhile Colin exudes so much excitement from on stage its pretty clear he knows this is the best WIRE have ever been live... The best word to sum it all up came from Reuters: Burning Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:30:02 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Dictation (A Line in the Sand?) >>>Keep posting--don't let the biggest jerk on the list dictate its content Robert Lynn was dictating to himself, as he quite often does, and no one is trying to dictate its content except tisbili and sensible Miles, who I'd like to thank for finally lifting a chubby monkey off my back. I'll refrain from being sarcastic towards Mr Lynn in future as he's obviously a bit too fragile to deal with it. Ironic that tisbili@aol only seems to send messages that attempt to dictate list content. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:31:00 -0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] WIRE Trashed at Sinclair Bash Ben Watson, uber-pretentious poet, Zappapologist and amusing socialist-improv mega-theory bullshitter, takes an axe to Dip Flash in a short paragraph in The Wire 226. He informs us that WIRE are 5 years behind the times, yet his accuracy in this assertion can be thrown into doubt by the fact that he can't even remember what appeared before his eyes, and maybe his ears are equally fucked. WIRE are described as 'spindly' which is a pretty ridiculous thing to call any of them except maybe Bruce, and observed to be 'balding.' Last week Bruce still had a full head of silver hair. Watson also remarks that they were clad in black. Robert seems to be wearing a light blue sweatshirt in the accompanying photo. Lets face it, the man is a music journalist - he was in the fucking bar! Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Xenakis - Persepolis & Remixes (both at the same time) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:29:37 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Top 100 Singles tim... > 8. The current editor of the NME cropped up quite a lot to pass comment. He > looks about 12 years old!!!! No wonder only children read the NME these > days!! you know what they say. when nme editors start to look young ; ) nice posting Tim. enjoyed it! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:34:53 -0800 (PST) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] in the art of... - --- Bill Hick wrote: > Ben Watson ... Zappapologist ... You could rightly stop there ^_^ but then who gives a f&^< ? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:39:06 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dictation (A Line in the Sand?) At 06:30 PM 11/19/2002 +0000, Bill Hick wrote: >>>>Keep posting--don't let the biggest jerk on the list dictate its content > >Robert Lynn was dictating to himself, as he quite often does, and no one is >trying to dictate its content except tisbili and sensible Miles, who I'd like >to thank for finally lifting a chubby monkey off my back. > >I'll refrain from being sarcastic towards Mr Lynn in future as he's obviously >a bit too fragile to deal with it. > >Ironic that tisbili@aol only seems to send messages that attempt to dictate >list content. I certainly don't know if I'm sensible, and I'm not acquainted with any monkeys, chubby or otherwise. What I would like to see (and have made some off-list efforts to facilitate) is the end of personal insults and attacks on the list. I'm not pointing fingers, and I could have just as easily written this message as a reply to a posting of Bill's (tisbili@aol.com) as to Mr. Bill Hick's. Graeme has been known to provoke, sure, but other list members have just as readily baited him, so I'm getting to the point of putting the blame on anyone standing before me. I prescribe (1) civil behavior, (2) turning the other cheeking tongue, (3) contacting the troubling person off-list or failing that, contacting me off-list, and/or (4) killfiling those posters whose posts provoke your fingers to dole out the insults. If you must resort to (4), feel free to ask me how to set up such filters on your respective mail clients. Trust me, it's all in the art of stopping. Who gets the last word on this? I do. And THIS IS THE LAST WORD. There. Let's have no more of that. And since Nobody Likes The Wire List Administration List, some Wire content of my own: today while at Tower Records on my lunch break, I spied the EMI box of the first three Wire albums, and picked it up. I haven't had a chance to break the shrinkwrap, but I do want to issue a (belated) thanks to all those idealcopyists who took the trouble to explain the sonic differences between the original US CDs on Enigma/Restless and the EMI remasters, especially the detailed explanation from our redoubtable Paul P. I was in the store to pick up Sigur Ros' ( ), which I did pick up, along with a recent Yo La Tengo CD-5 I hadn't seen ("Nuclear" somethingorother, I think) and, ahem, the new Kylie Minogue concert DVD. I was also nearly run over by an SUV on the way back to work, though listmembers might suggest that it was no SUV, just the weight of my own contradictions! :-) later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:42:16 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] nme top 100 singles Well, I never understood the appeal of the Stone Roses (and despite trying spasmodically over the last decade still don't - maybe not ingesting ecstasy has something to do with it). And rather more heretically I never got the Jesus and Mary Chain either. They were the first band to make me think I'd heard it all before and that rock had gone down a cul-de-sac. Fortunately I grew out of this rather quickly, but I've never been able to rekindle much enthusiasm for JAMC. Ari mentioned how the NME list "smacks of stale and musty boys". Having now seen it in its entirety I am quite enthused by it given the parlous state of that periodical. There's only one very silly choice - The Vines in at #34 or somewhere adjacent - when I would have anticipated a list of flavours of the year. Instead they've gone for a series of classics more or less. Any list with Paint it Black at #4 is OK with me. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury To: Stephen Graziano ; Bart van Damme ; wire-news Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] nme top 100 singles > stephen said... > > But I'd rather see a list of 45s that were > > massive and that listees HATED and why. > > Temptation by Heaven 17. > > I love a lot of music from that period, but I hate everything about this. > The crummy singing, the half-assed 'melody', the shite beyond words backing > singing. In fact, have hated this record so much and for so long, that I > have grown to become very fond of it. > > Still, Phil Oakey and his two 'lovely assistants' would have made a far > better job! > > (BTW Human League played live on some morning telly show last week) > > I'd like to see a list of 45s that some quarters reckoned to be really > good, but aren't (in our respective opinions!). > > I'd make an early stab and mention Tallulah Gosh by Tallulah Gosh? Always > thought this it was incredibly limp. Naff 80's indie music of the worst > order (this from someone who bought albums by McCarthy and the Close > Lobsters!) > > And one record that was 'hip' in certain quarters which I HATE is > Brilliant Mind by Furniture. I just don't see what all the fuss is about. > > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:48:07 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vera, Groningen Yeah, me too - I just grin inanely at Wire gigs, often laughing out loud. God knows what it looks like from the stage if half the audience are grinning back at you. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Miles Goosens To: Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vera, Groningen > At 09:01 PM 11/13/2002 +0000, Keith Astbury wrote: > >> Sometimes I found myself just standing there with a enormous smile on my > >face. > > > >That sums me up exactly. I'm sure I was just grinning all the way through at > >Brighton! > > I think sometime in 2000, I posted about the sheer joy of Wire live -- joy > for band and audience alike -- but I'm glad to see some other people having > the same reaction to them that I've had. I know I spent considerable > portions of the four Wire Mk. III shows I've seen with a huge, dopey grin > on my face, in pure sonic bliss. > > later, > > Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:07:49 -0800 (PST) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Neubauten Live Good info on those albums, I don't have any of EN's 'Strategies...' and may have to hunt them down now! And on a related note, according to the counter on neubauten.org, they need just 336 more supporters until they break even on their new album venture! That's down about 180 from when I first saw the counter about a month ago! Keep your fingers crossed for them! > >>>i never got the live neubauten one, or the bad > seeds one either (there is a > bad seeds live album, right?). can anyone recommend > (or discourage) buying > those? I really like the album 'Live Seeds' and play it quite a bit, so I'll give a hearty recommendation on that one. > Of course Strategies Against Architecture 2 & 3 also > feature many live tracks > and are fine compilations. Actually Neubauten have > also just reissued > Richterskala, Patienten OT & Halber Mensch in > digipacks with extra tracks. Indeed! and those of you NOT living in the US can get a great deal on those, plus they throw in an extra CD if you order them all, PLUS most of the money goes to the band! A win-win situation in my book! ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:48:43 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] nme top 100 singles the stone roses were just a very subtle twist on a "classic rock" band really , they had their moments but hardly the greatest act in history etc etc. JAMC i always felt to be grossly over-rated , talked a great talk but didn't really have much musically to keep you interested after the initial "shock horror" phase (maybe shocking to a spotty 17 yr old NME reader but i think that was about as far as it went). to digress , i recall some retro show about the 80's where they asked the usual panel of the great and the good to name the 5 best and 5 most over-rated acts of that decade. i think 4 appeared on both lists......p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #390 *******************************