From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest)
To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org
Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #387
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idealcopy-digest       Sunday, November 17 2002       Volume 05 : Number 387



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [idealcopy] OT Ian McEwan       [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>]
  [idealcopy] Photo's Wire: Melkweg + Vera  [Patrick Follon <follon@xs4all.n]
  Re: [idealcopy] A couple of live albums!  ["Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury1]
  Re: [idealcopy] Photo's Wire: Melkweg + Vera  [eric719@webtv.net (Eric Str]
  Re: [idealcopy] live albums?!?  ["Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.n]
  [idealcopy] Calling Uffe silverup            [jez <jla.stevens@virgin.net>]
  [idealcopy] Who's the Bastard?          ["Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>]
  [idealcopy] Flex Your Head!             ["Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>]
  [idealcopy] a plank is, but somehow I think  ["Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail]
  [idealcopy] Tired of Bucking Ponies     ["Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>]
  [idealcopy] Nice Steets Unplayed?       ["Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>]
  [idealcopy] Killing Joke                ["Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>]
  [idealcopy] All This Shit Disputed      ["Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>]
  Re: [idealcopy] A couple of live albums!               [Eardrumbuz@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] nme top 100 singles  ["Stephen Graziano" <sjgraziano@hotma]
  Re: [idealcopy] Photo's Wire: Melkweg + Vera  [rayographique <rayographiqu]
  Re: [idealcopy] a plank is, but somehow I think  [rayographique <rayograph]
  Re: [idealcopy] Nice Steets Unplayed?  [rayographique <rayographique@yahoo]
  [idealcopy] Wire Live - from Colin                        [Rain19c@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] A couple of live albums!  ["Jan Noorda" <janj.noorda@tisca]
  Re: [idealcopy] (offtopic) a plank is, but somehow I think  [Andrew Walkin]
  Re: [idealcopy] A couple of live albums!  [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@ho]
  Re: [idealcopy] PLANK               [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:52:01 +0100
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Ian McEwan

> Ian McEwan.
> Did he write "Black Dogs" and "Amsterdam"? I have always intended to read
> those books. Have you read them Bart.

I've only read his Cement Garden, but yes, he wrote the ones you've
mentioned.
 
Bart

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:08:20 +0100 (CET)
From: Patrick Follon <follon@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [idealcopy] Photo's Wire: Melkweg + Vera

Hi,

I have put online the photo's I made of the concerts in Melkweg, Amsterdam
and Vera, Groningen.

http://patrick.op.het.net.je/wire/

Enjoy :)

PF

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:55:31 -0000
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A couple of live albums!

> >PiL - Paris in the Spring
> 
> ooh, knew i'd forget one! great album  -another the paul

come on chaps. don't be shy. give it it's proper (french) title please. 

we won't laugh at your pronunciation ; )

keith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:51:13 -0800 (PST)
From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang)
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Photo's Wire: Melkweg + Vera

<<I have put online the photo's I made of the concerts in Melkweg,
Amsterdam and Vera, Groningen. 
http://patrick.op.het.net.je/wire/ >>

Excellent stuff! Thanks Patrick.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:03:04 -0000
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] live albums?!?

> Well, I expect a bit of flack from this entry, but as
> a young rockin' type, with a bit of a weird side, the
> live albums that made the strongest impression on me
> were:
>
> And as a sidenote, I do like live albums!
>
> Foghat - Live

Now there's a band you don't hear mentioned much these days!

The one I liked at that time was Playing The Fool by Gentle Giant.

I was also rather partial to...ahem...Back to the Future by...cough...Man.

> Led Zeppelin - The Song Remains the Same (I admit I'm
> more partial to the movie than the album)

 My main memory of the movie was a load of smellies sitting in front of us,
repeatedly shouting 'volume'!

> Yes - Yessongs

I might have admitted to Man and Gentle Giant but that, young man, is a
liberty too far ; )

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:55:55 +0000
From: jez <jla.stevens@virgin.net>
Subject: [idealcopy] Calling Uffe silverup

I am shit. I have just found your TFF 12inches. Had forgotten all about
them. Sorry.

What's your address again?

Jez

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:43:28 -0000
From: "Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Who's the Bastard?

>>>Getting back to the hotel in the pouring rain at 1am when the last bus has
gone and we can't find a cab
well that's another story...

Meanwhile, in Berlin I'd booked a hotel but hadn't checked in. The former
bunker known as Maria Um Ufer is very close to Ostbahnhof, so after the gig I
went in to check the train times to Hamburg. The next thing I know, I was
waking up as the sun rose having spent the night in a drunken stupor on a
metal bench in the station. Mr Lewis had invited me to partake of the rider
and it would've seemed rude to refuse!

Here's a funny thing: some bloke says hello to me in the dark Berlin club
whilst Appliance are playing. He looks familiar but I'm still a bit dazed from
the flight in and I can't quite place him... slowly the realisation dawns that
it's Colin Newman!!!

Well at least he's got better things to do than bitch about it on the
internet!!!!!!!

Cracked Machine
Highly Irregular Cyberzine
http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:43:36 -0000
From: "Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Flex Your Head!

Anyone thinking of going to Vienna?

Enon play Flex the day before WIRE
Enon 22/11
WIRE 23/11

Enon Tour
http://www.southern.com/southern/tour/newtour.cgi?ENONN

I saw Enon last Sunday in Leeds with Girls Against Boys and Swearing At
Motorists, three very enjoyable bands. Eli of GvsB was off on maternity leave,
but they still played as well as ever, and Enon played a very different set to
the last time they played Leeds, with much instrument swapping between John
and Toko.

Cracked Machine
Highly Irregular Cyberzine
http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:49:34 -0000
From: "Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] a plank is, but somehow I think

1. Legendary German record producer.

2. Flat wooden boards from which sheds can be constructed. Mr Gilbert has been
known to lurk behind these kinds of planks. As such, Mr Flaherty can feel
proud to have come from a long line of planks and his contribution to
'Shedding' is much appreciated by all true WIRE fans.


Here are some more new words for you:

"Doofus"

A person who spams Ideal Copy with everyday off topic posts who hasn't yet
bought Read and Burn 02.

"Dork"

A bore with little to say who nevertheless sends lots of email to a list
intended for discussion of a band who s/he doesn't actually manage to see play
live all year.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:51:01 -0000
From: "Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Tired of Bucking Ponies

>>>No Mr Suit, unfortunately.


They haven't played Mr Suit since Brighton, unless they've played it since
Hamburg on Wednesday.

Indeed, Mr Lewis seemed to have forgotten that they'd even played it!

Since Mr Newman insisted that they really didn't know anymore songs after the
Um Ufer Drill, it seems quite likely that Mr Suit was a one off.

Cracked Machine
Highly Irregular Cyberzine
http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:50:41 -0000
From: "Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Nice Steets Unplayed?

Norm in Brighton
>>>All the songs from R&B 1 and 2 were there.

Are you sure?

In Berlin and Hamburg, they did not play

Trash/Treasure
Nice Streets
Daft Rants

I asked Bruce and Graham about playing NSA and Bruce said that it would
require a much more complicated technical set up than would fit in with the
current stripped down minimal brutalist WIRE aesthetic.

Colin has stated that it would be possible in theory to play Nice Streets
live, however.

My guess is that the high chorus of T/T might be tricky to sing live, and that
the reversed Raft Ant drums might also be a difficult manoeuvre to pull off.

Cracked Machine
Highly Irregular Cyberzine
http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine

NP Girls Against Boys - You Can't Fight What You Can't See

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:52:53 -0000
From: "Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Killing Joke

>>>I can see the Killing joke bit. I used to see them (well, 22 years ago
actually) and the thing they have in common
is a very heavy rhythmical sound that leaves a certain sense of awe. Beyond
that I can see very little in common

I see a lot of similarity, especially with the Killing Joke records when Youth
was on board, particularly the first two albums and Pandemonium. Basically
Youth and Colin Newman especially have an interest in merging and reinventing
rock and dance to create harder hybrids.

Killing Joke's Exorcism EP is on a par with the Read and Burns in terms of
wall shaking intensity.

The Wait and Spent create very similar ominous atmospheres. If you took off
the vocal of HALO's Answer to your Question and got Jaz Coleman to sing on it,
I doubt anyone would be able to tell it wasn't Killing Joke.

Cracked Machine
Highly Irregular Cyberzine
http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:54:26 -0000
From: "Bill Hick" <umur_ot@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] All This Shit Disputed

>>>If you like Appliance, you will love
New Order, Joy Division, Nine Inch Nails and Interpol (to a certain extent).

Not necessarily

I love Joy Division
I like New Order up to Brotherhood
I detest Nine Inch Nails, especially their pathetic cover of Dead Souls
I think Interpol are the funniest joke I've heard all year, although I have
this funny feeling that's not the reaction they were after.

I think Appliance are OK, but couldn't get too excited about them. In Berlin
they reminded me of Neu with bits of U2 stuck on, whereas in Hamburg they
seemed more Happy Mondays. None of these comparisons are much use though. The
vocals do seem unecessary. The best track they played by far was the motorik
stormer they closed their Berlin set with. The only record I have by them is a
remix EP, with Kreidler, To Rococo Rot, Tarwater & Pole all improving them...
the Pole remix is actually the best thing I've heard from him.
Tarwater and Dictaphone turned up to see WIRE in Berlin btw, as did Gareth
Jones.

If you like Appliance, you might want to tune into John Peel Radio 1 Tuesday
10pm as they're in session.

John Peel is also taking Festive 50 entries from now until the end of the
month. I'll be voting for 99.9 at the very least, and I suggest everyone
reading this do likewise.

Cracked Machine
Highly Irregular Cyberzine
http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:52:50 EST
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A couple of live albums!

In a message dated 11/16/02 11:44:56 AM, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes:

>> >PiL - Paris in the Spring
>
>> 
>
>> ooh, knew i'd forget one! great album  -another the paul
>
>
>
>come on chaps. don't be shy. give it it's proper (french) title please.
>
>
>
>
>we won't laugh at your pronunciation ; )

you men like these? paree oh prantom!

- -le paul aussi (i forget, is votre the french word for another?)
this is what happens when you don't ry speaking french for 23 years :o\

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:07:42 -0500
From: "Stephen Graziano" <sjgraziano@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] nme top 100 singles

It might be fun to list favorite singles, though I will resist the
temptation at this moment.  I fear that much MUCH more so than albums it
will be quite idiosyncratic as we all have those various 2:35 minutes of
nostalgic nonsense listed in the "warm and fuzzy" catalogue section  of the
brain that makes us like things even though the better (stricter - not quite
so much fun, so why don't you lighten up already Stephen?!) parts of
ourselves know them to be if not absolute, pretty spectaculary crap.  It'll
be so much more where we've allowed ourselves to get seduced by the popular
culture, for whatever reason, and I too - am guilty.  Also, I'd suspect that
the majority of us were seduced by 45s before Lps, so it'll reflect a more
juevenile aspect of ourselves.  But I'd rather see a list of 45s that were
massive and that listees HATED and why.  That way I wouldn't have to explain
why Donovan's Atlantis and Paul and Linda's Uncle Albert are on my first
list, whereas I could rail, vent, spleen and otherwise pour bile over
Gilbert 0's "Alone Again, Naturally".
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bart van Damme" <bartvandamme@home.nl>
To: "wire-news" <idealcopy@smoe.org>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] nme top 100 singles


> Gad, and now I suppose you want us to.....  ;-)
>
> Very english list innit? And no Corrie en de Rekels? Tssk tssk...
>
> Bart
>
>
>
> > This weeks nme has their top 100 singles of all time. This was the top
10.
> >
> > a.. 1. Joy Division - 'Love Will Tear Us Apart'
> > b.. 2. Nirvana - 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'
> > c.. 3. The Sex Pistols - 'Anarchy In The UK'
> > d.. 4. The Rolling Stones - 'Paint It, Black'
> > e.. 5. David Bowie - ''Heroes''
> > f.. 6. The Stone Roses - 'Fools Gold'
> > g.. 7. The Smiths - 'This Charming Man'
> > h.. 8. Oasis - 'Live Forever'
> > i.. 9. Massive Attack - 'Unfinished Sympathy'
> > j.. 10. The Clash - 'London Calling'
> > Keith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:38:31 -0800 (PST)
From: rayographique <rayographique@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Photo's Wire: Melkweg + Vera

Thanks much for the visual accompaniment to all the
splendid reviews.
The audience shots give a nice impression of the
blessed state of sonic rapture described lately.
The band truly is at the top of their form
And the really cool thing is I think they are, as yet
far from their ultimate destination.

- --- Patrick Follon <follon@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have put online the photo's I made of the concerts
> in Melkweg, Amsterdam
> and Vera, Groningen.
> 
> http://patrick.op.het.net.je/wire/
> 
> Enjoy :)
> 
> PF
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:42:32 -0800 (PST)
From: rayographique <rayographique@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a plank is, but somehow I think

- --- Bill Hick <umur_ot@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
> A person who spams Ideal Copy with everyday off
> topic posts who hasn't yet
> bought Read and Burn 02.
...
so you did ultimately buy a copy yourself?
^_^
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:44:15 -0800 (PST)
From: rayographique <rayographique@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nice Steets Unplayed?

- --- Bill Hick <umur_ot@hotmail.com> wrote:
>... 
> 
> the reversed Raft Ant drums might also be a
> difficult manoeuvre to pull off.

i thought that was what the octipad was for
is it still at robert's right?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:35:36 EST
From: Rain19c@aol.com
Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Live - from Colin

I talked to Colin about the possibly of a live album back at the Boston gig, 
because their current setlist really kills.

Colin said the focus now is on the R&Bs and the new stuff = "Pink Flag [the 
label] has a backload of stuff to be released, but it would appeal mostly to 
the hardcore fans - we are too busy focusing on the R&Bs to put it out now. 
The whole Chicago gig from this [US] tour was recorded and we have the stuff 
we did back at the Garage. It will come out someday."

Also when asked whether an A-List style of the forthcoming "Read & Burn" 
album would be done, Colin had an immediate answer:

"No Fucking Way!"

~Michael
np v/a - "selection 1" on the trapez label

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:04:39 +0100
From: "Jan Noorda" <janj.noorda@tiscali.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A couple of live albums!

- --Live at the Roxy (feat. 12 U no)
- --Theatre Of Hate - He who dares wins
- --Flipper - Public Flipper Limited
- --Minutemen - Ballot Result
- --Swans - Real Love
- --Minimal Compact - Live
- --Durutti Column - Domo Arigato
- --Joy Division - Still
- --Birthday Party - Live 81-82
- --Cabaret Voltaire -Live at the YMCA
- --Bauhaus - Press the eject and give me the tape
- --Throbbing Gristle - Every live-perfomance released on k7 (cassette in
french) and now...
- --Velvet Underground with Lou Reed - Volume 1


Should GL also watched at
Werder Bremen - Vitesse (Arnhem) 2-3?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:20:24 +0000
From: Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (offtopic) a plank is, but somehow I think

On Sat, Nov 16, 2002 at 04:49:34PM -0000, Bill Hick wrote:

[categorisation of IC posters]
> A bore with little to say who nevertheless sends lots of email to a
> list intended for discussion of a band who s/he doesn't actually
> manage to see play live all year.

Guilty as charged. :(

I rarely get to go to concerts at all, for various reasons, which this isn't
the right time or place to go into. I'll try and remain on topic in future.

Apologies to the list, posters *and* lurkers.

- - Andrew

- -- 
"And when the cold war's over, the springtime thaw will flower;
 And when the siren's singing, We'll sense a new beginning ...
- - Super Furry Animals, "She's Got Spies" ('Radiator')
 adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 08:45:11 +0100
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A couple of live albums!

> we won't laugh at your pronunciation ; )

Oh yes we will!  :-P

Bart

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:02:05 +0100
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PLANK

Andrew:
> [categorisation of IC posters]
>> A bore with little to say who nevertheless sends lots of email to a
>> list intended for discussion of a band who s/he doesn't actually
>> manage to see play live all year.
> 
> Guilty as charged. :(
> 
> I rarely get to go to concerts at all, for various reasons, which this isn't
> the right time or place to go into. I'll try and remain on topic in future.
> 
> Apologies to the list, posters *and* lurkers.


Tell me you're jesting here Andrew or are you really that easily
discouraged? No need to react to just one man's opinion - I'm sure I'm
speaking for most of us when I say I like your contributions a lot.
Just give your middlefinger muscles some exercise man!

Bart

------------------------------

End of idealcopy-digest V5 #387
*******************************