From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #383 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, November 13 2002 Volume 05 : Number 383 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Crossing Border/Groningen [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Streaming audio: Wire live in Amsterdam ["Jan Noorda" ] [idealcopy] Re: Clap Clap etc. [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] Vera, Groningen ["Jan Noorda" ] Re: [idealcopy] Streaming audio: Wire live in Amsterdam [Patrick Follon <] Re: [idealcopy] Streaming audio: Wire live in Amsterdam [Mark Wilson ] [idealcopy] OT: Beatles Tribute [voyteck@webtv.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:47:19 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Crossing Border/Groningen > Last friday a huge [more than half a page] article about Wire. forgot to say: in the main newspaper of the north here... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:39:32 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a plank. >i rise to give you a standing ovation.... >cheers, >Robert Well that's three of us in the Pop Posse! As for the rest of you, come on if you think you're hard enough ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 03:44:28 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! Keith Astbury wrote: WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a plank. >i rise to give you a standing ovation.... >cheers, >Robert Well that's three of us in the Pop Posse! you can (yes) count me in too(with reservations to some of todays musick).(sorry Bill) Ari As for the rest of you, come on if you think you're hard enough ; ) Keith U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:46:38 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 11:39:32AM -0000, Keith Astbury wrote: > WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a plank. > > >i rise to give you a standing ovation.... > >cheers, > >Robert > > Well that's three of us in the Pop Posse! > > As for the rest of you, come on if you think you're hard enough ; ) Pop is, of course, in the eye of the beholder. Are both Aphex Twin and Iron Maiden pop? They've both had hits, after all - so in some sense they are, but I'm sure that rabid fans of either would object to their categorisation as such. XTC's "This is Pop" is really going in the opposite direction to that, of course. Anyway, how about this: we all need a wide range of music such that everyone can find music which speaks to them: people will disagree, and there's no reason why people can't be adult about that. I don't expect everyone to agree with my taste in music, but that isn't going to stop me evangelising about music which I believe deserves a wider audience. We all need *music* - whether anyone needs pop is up to them, but it should be available if they need it. :) [1] - - Andrew (np Delagdos - "Hate") [1] Whether over the counter or on prescription is another matter... - -- "Don't talk of love - (well, I've heard the word before), It's sleeping in my memory; I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died..." - Simon and Garfunkel, "I Am A Rock" ('Sounds of Silence') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:32:14 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] half man yeah yeah yeah > > I think it was John who mentioned Half Man Half Biscuit the other day. >I'm >not > > a fan myself but I thought the following lines from their splendidly >titled > > new Cammell Laird Social Club album were worthy of sharing... > > > > "I'm going to see the Bootleg Beatles > > As the Bootleg Mark Chapman" > >HMHB should do a lyric book. It would be a best-seller. They did do one but withdrew it some years ago. There is a website which explains all the references to the lyrics at http://www.surf.to/hmhb Cheers John _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:57:03 +0100 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Groningen, Vera Sunday the 10th of the 11th we, my grilfriend and I went up to Gronigen. Vera is wellknown place for me. I went up their a couple a years ago, nearly every week. Have seen there a lot of very good concerts. Most of all, these are also the critics on Vera's program, guitar music. Yes indeed most of all the important guitar-combo's , like BigBlack, Sonic Youth, BirthdayParty, Fall, Nirvana, Butthole Surfers, etc. etc. went up there. And it's true one band was missing till now. My Girlfriend was very curious. She had heard all my stories but not seen where it was all about. Even last summer at the ICA in London she was with me, but decided to go up to a musical with her daughters. She thought it was probably too heavy, too much tension she could not bear. The doors would be open at 9 o'clock. We were late. At the moment we did arrive Appliance had alreay started. Graham stood in the corridor talking with Peter Weening, a programmer of Vera. I went up to Graham and as usual curious of course what will be happening the coming period. He was talking about by example the PinkFlag-cover band of last year. That they were trying to invite them doing a gig in London as startup for one of their shows or playing in the Foyer. Yes everyone heard I think that the man who brought the PinkFlag coverband together couldnot bear this life an decided to choose for the other side. There were also the very funny stories about the Elgaland-Vargaland people and the Ministery of Lamenations. If you're interested watch their site. Somewhere down the page http://www.kcw70.dial.pipex.com/html/bull.html and choose Elgaland-Vargaland. About Bruce's performance at the ICA with the 12 organ-players he told me that Bruce was conducting these musicians with a very big screen and did let them play with i.a.paint-rollers. Yes of course a visual artist uses tools like canvas, brushes and paint-rollers. And there was a story about AndrewMcKenzie his sometimes paranoia behaviour who had drugged himself for years by drinking and probably his body is obtaining now. About language and social behaviour in a city like by example Manchester. That Gothenburg looks a little like, a city in the Netherlands could look like: Flat. I missed The Appliance-gig now but I missed nothing, I've been told. Graham had to prepare himself for the concert and went upstairs. The concerthall was crowded. They told me the tickets were expensive, 10 Euro. But no problem at all for most of them. I recognised a lot of familiair people. Went up to our local pop-journalist Jakob Haagsma. An other man starts talking against me. He thought I was Bart because I was talking with Graham. It was Igor. One of the members of the PinkFlag-cover band was talking about the sad story of Jan Heddema. And that he was running with also an old familiair of mine Sjikke a small booking agency called BUROAGOGO. And there were my old house-mates from years ago. It looked like I went back at the time of the early eighties. The First tunes of 99.9 already started. Wire is coming on stage one by one. Graham starts the flashlight. The mesmering beats are starting. Heads in the room are moving. There are two huge man in front of me. Sounds heavy probably because one is getting some rubber eardrops. 1st Fast second I'm not sure. Yes that is the sound. A new one. Slow track That must be Mr Marx's table. The Art Of Stopping, Spent, Trash/Treasure etc.etc. In my opinion the crowd did not really expected this. They started to react slowly. Colin was performing fantastic. My girlfriend announced that later. She is an actrice and stage is sometimes also a small theatre where acting is very important. With overdone movements, jumping, mimicry, to make things bigger with a strong purpose for saying, expressiveness, eloquence. For the other standup musicians is this less. Graham now and then. Bruce is nearly standing backwards. And Robert. To play drums is not always a very thankfull job of a band. Most of the time they are underrated. Maybe has this to do with the already mentioned expressiveness. You have to sit down. But the people around me were enjoying. Even dancing behind me. I was glad the two meter twenty men did not like dancing or even worse pogoing. The encore was special. Yes indeed Reuters, Advantage in Height and PinkFlag. Colin dedicated this PinkFlag to the already mentioned Jan Heddema. I think he couldn't do a better thing for this man's relatives at this place. After the concert some other old acquaintances went up to me. Some were enthousiast, others did not expect this wall of sound. My girlfriend was surprised. She liked it. Her expectation was much more extreme. After talking with my old friends and making new appointments I have to buy me a shirt and went outside. Graham had invited us to drink a little. In the passage Bruce was buying cigarettes and I interrupted him buy asking him about his future-plans beside Wire. He said that he was very charmed by the new New York younger bands. He told me about the relationship between the Liars and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. And there will be probably even plans made with them. Als the story that Daniel Miller had sold his Mute rec. and then of course also Blast First and Grey Area etc. to I believe EMI was a thing of discussion at this moment. Wire has always tried to be far away from major companies. What to do know? Graham appeared with two englishman who travelled from Brighton, to Belgium, to Amsterdam up to Groningen. Mark and Sean? Graham said I will get you some drinks and came back with a box of Leeuw beer and some water for my girlfriend. While talking a man looking a little like Young Ones Vivian at older age runs up towards the box. Takes a beer and went further on. Graham opposes why an anarchist is not asking please for a bottle of beer. We went back to the concert-hall. I asked GL if there were messages to leave behind for this Ideal Copy-site. These were the words. We are sober, till now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:11:08 +0100 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Streaming audio: Wire live in Amsterdam Hello Patrick, At last, I did expected you for a long time. Do you still have something to do with radio 100? Have you seen Wire in Groningen and also inAmsterdam? Are their reviews in papers? > Hi, > > Wire gave two great concerts in the Netherlands. Yesterday in Groningen > and saterday on the 'Crossing Border festival' at the Melkweg. > > The VPRO, a Dutch broadcasting organisation, has put the Amsterdam concert > online in real audio. > > http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/concerts/concert.shtml?2534202+2584688+2584508+ 9324734+9324524 > > http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/smil/concerts/startconcert.sram?2534202+2584688 +2584508+9324734+9324524 > > This was e great concert, sound was perfect. Enjoy! > > More material (photo's etc) will come. > > Ciao, > Patrick > > wire@xs4all.nl > http://patrick.op.het.net.je/wire/ > > ============ > > You don't have to be weird to be completely wired ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:27:10 -0800 (PST) From: Monochromatic Man Subject: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! I did really enjoy the last Kylie cd... - --- Keith Astbury wrote: > WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a > plank. > > > > >i rise to give you a standing ovation.... > >cheers, > >Robert > > Well that's three of us in the Pop Posse! > > As for the rest of you, come on if you think > you're hard enough ; ) > > Keith ===== /\/\/\ { . . } /\ -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:48:58 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! I enjoyed LIGHT YEARS as well. God help us all. later, Miles At 07:27 AM 11/12/2002 -0800, Monochromatic Man wrote: >I did really enjoy the last Kylie cd... > > >--- Keith Astbury wrote: >> WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a >> plank. >> >> >> >> >i rise to give you a standing ovation.... >> >cheers, >> >Robert >> >> Well that's three of us in the Pop Posse! >> >> As for the rest of you, come on if you think >> you're hard enough ; ) >> >> Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:44:32 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Ian McEwan > Did he write "Black Dogs" and "Amsterdam"? I have always intended to read > those books. Have you read them Bart. > Thought Amsterdam was ok, but not great - esp. considering the plaudits. > Felt very let down at the end... Only read the Cement Garden myself and liked it pretty much. His [bit Shopenhauer-like] lecture was impressive, but perhaps too heavy for the end of a hardworking afternoon for most people there. A good friend who accompanied me nodded off sometimes and he was not the only one. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:11:27 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Clap Clap etc. >From: "Tim" >Subject: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! > >Keith Said and Robert Applauded: > >> << And as for Saturday Night Fever, I've never even seen it. But I bought >> Staying Alive round the same time as What Do I Get! It's all pop to me >; ) >> >> Keith >> >> >> clap clap clap clap clap clap >> RL > >Hear Hear. BOO HISS BOO ... The bgs??????????? >WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a plank. In which case I come from a line of planks. Of course, I don't really know what a plank is, but somehow I think it's not very nice. ;) Michael Flaherty Heavy Rotation (not in response to pop thread--just haven't done this in a while): Le Depeupleur, Karkowski and Toeplitz Early Voice, Philip Glass Mantra, Stockhausen Adnos I-III, Eliane Radigue Private Tapes #7, Kawabata Makoto Happy to be Happy w/..., King Crimson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:31:28 +0100 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Vera, Groningen Here is a review made for my local paper Leeuwarder Courant written by = Jacob Haagsma. He sometimes writes for music-magazine Oor and I believe = also NRC Handelsblad. I try to give a translation.=20 Minimalism of Wire still even now very effective. At last yesterday evening the English Group Wire was performing at the = rock-centre Vera in Groningen, 23 years later a planned gig has been = cancelled. Wire was one of the most original groups of the British punk- = and new wave-scene in 1977. They never were very succesfull, but most = influencuable - even on bands like U2, Joy Division and Nirvana which = played at Vera and became considerable more famous.=20 Wire did chuck it a few times, but they are busy again for several = years. Even if there are untill sofar only Read and Burn 1 and Read and = Burn 2 in limited amount released. Just like the speech making debut = Pink Flag it's all about a kind of effectively minimalism with Wire: How = do you obtain the most effective out of limited means? In the new = material, and there have not been played much else, this question has = been answered even more radically.=20 All tracks turn mostly on one, and no more than that, chord, but that = minimal basis has been used very good. The heavy, sharp and clear = guitarsound is generating a wall of overtones, which hangs like an extra = dimension over the plain music.=20 Bruce Gilbert, with his 56 years the oldest member, plays stoic in the = same position its mathematic guitarparts. The ten years younger = singer-guitarplayer Colin Newman rolls with a youthful enthousiasm on = stage. The poles in which the music moves are like that diverge: rock'n = roll back to basics with an arty view on it. The new music does the spirit of Wire 77 revive, seen through a prism = of 25 years experience. That and the endless energy which explodes out = of every tune makes clear Wire is not nostalgia, but is still making = highly relevant music. In the encore some old songs were passing. One was dedicated to Jan = Heddema, the while ago passed away frontman of PinkFlag, a Groninger = band that had only Wire-songs on their repertoire. The paper announces that for this gig Vera had 300 visitors. [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of ~MAP0000.rtf] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:38:18 +0100 (CET) From: Patrick Follon Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Streaming audio: Wire live in Amsterdam On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Jan Noorda wrote: > Have you seen Wire in Groningen and also inAmsterdam? yep, an audio stream of the concert in Vera, Groningen has been put online as well. The sound in Amsterdam was much better then in Groningen. Pics etc. will follow. Ciao, Patrick http://patrick.op.het.net.je/wire/ wire@xs4all.nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:42:33 -0800 From: Mark Wilson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Streaming audio: Wire live in Amsterdam > yep, an audio stream of the concert in Vera, Groningen has been put > online as well. I must have missed this one. What's the URL for that stream? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:44:08 -0800 From: Mark Wilson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Streaming audio: Wire live in Amsterdam > I must have missed this one. What's the URL for that stream? Never mind; I'm an idiot. I didn't realize it was on Patrick's site. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:49:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! Errrrrrr,ahem,ummmm this IS the WIRE fanzite,right? I'll get me bottle of scotch. Miles Goosens wrote: I enjoyed LIGHT YEARS as well. God help us all. later, Miles At 07:27 AM 11/12/2002 -0800, Monochromatic Man wrote: >I did really enjoy the last Kylie cd... > > >--- Keith Astbury wrote: >> WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a >> plank. >> >> >> >> >i rise to give you a standing ovation.... >> >cheers, >> >Robert >> >> Well that's three of us in the Pop Posse! >> >> As for the rest of you, come on if you think >> you're hard enough ; ) >> >> Keith U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:11:06 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire's wrongPop singles Bart > Comet and Trash/Treasure could be contenders here imo. There certainly hooky > enough and quite accessible. Comet should be a hit in some parallel universe. Sadly ITV have decreed that this is not pop music - but doing lounge versions of Doors songs and trying to bellow early Lulu hits is. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:19:05 -0800 (PST) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! can't get blue monday out of my head... actually can't get in the art of stopping out of my head much better np maya singing 'ba ba black sheep' U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:22:19 -0500 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] 'Chuffed' <'Chuffed' is most definitely GOOD! Basically translates as very, very pleased. Keith> Oh, good--I was worried there for a minute. To my American ears it sounds like a rough chaffing. Thanks for all the reviews. Sounds like you are now getting the same amazing intensity of performance we got here. It certainly was grins all around after the show in San Francisco; everyone amazed and soooo satisfied. Robert (another) *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and all of its attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:14:49 -0600 (CST) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Beatles Tribute Just got home from Tower Records with possibly the finest Beatles tribute CD set this side of Big Daddy's Sgt. Pepper! Browsing through Christmas/Holiday music, I happened upon "The Fab Four" (the ultimate tribute) - "A Fab Four Christmas". This is a 2 CD package for $9.99 ... bargain of the decade! 20 Beatlesque Holiday songs in all, from early to end of their era. Absolutely SUPERB ... any fellow Beatle fans out there, snap this up!! It's a 2002 release on Delta # 36 032. http://www.deltaentertainment.com Even more profound than The Rutle's tribute album!! voyteck ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #383 *******************************