From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #382 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, November 12 2002 Volume 05 : Number 382 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: Brighton [HowardJSpencer@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Brighton ["Uri Baran" ] [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! ["Norm Fasey" ] Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! ["Norm Fasey" ] [idealcopy] half man yeah yeah yeah ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] half man yeah yeah yeah ["Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Brighton >Uri, I can't after all do Paris, as I've got something else arranged for that >evening. Bah. > Needn't be Paris, I'm open to suggestions if anyone is interested in catching a european date from the UK. Should be a bit of fun unlikely to repeat itself soon. Stockholm could be a good choice. >Brought three locals along, two of whom had never seen them before. One rave >reaction (though his comparison with Killing Joke made me gulp >involuntarily), one of indifference (can't please all the people all the >time). > I can see the Killing joke bit. I used to see them (well, 22 years ago actually) and the thing they have in common is a very heavy rhythmical sound that leaves a certain sense of awe. Beyond that I can see very little in common unless you take into account the very real visual similarity between Bruce and Geordie ;-) Uri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:09:49 -0000 From: "Norm Fasey" Subject: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! Guys! Nice to put a face to some of the names down at Brighton last week! Here's my review of the gig. Q and Not U (or is it Queue and not You?). Three piece from Washingtion DC. Staccato guitars and a driving beat. They came on at about 8:30 and did half an hour. Very tight, very loud (as was all the bands as I was placed right by the left hand side bass bin!). Kept on thinking that, once you had heard one track, you had heard them all. No real variation in the 90mph delivery and screamed lyrics. Full of energy, well rehearsed but have a long way to go. Gang of Four and Motorheads bastard child. 6/10 Appliance. Another three piece if you don't count the Laptop playing loops (MAC iBook for you geeks out there). The vocals seemed to be tacked on as an afterthought. These guys need a frontman. Pleasant enough set with no highights or lowpoints but nothing to write home about. I like listening to them on CD but not much to see onstage. Just three geezers bashing out sub-sonic power pop with added techno. If you like Appliance, you will love New Order, Joy Division, Nine Inch Nails and Interpol (to a certain extent). All in all though, I would welcome the chance to see the again. Wish they didn't keep trying to direct the crowds attention to the merchandise on sale at the back of the hall. Nice logos and 'corporate image' but where is the meat??? 7/10 Wire F*cking hell! I have died and gone to heaven! Despite the fact that Bruce now looks a bit like my Uncle Alan, these guys kicked major amounts of arse! Started out with "99.9". Stage is dark except for a flickering light on top of Grahams bass cab. The boys walk on with handheld flashlights with enough candle power to burn out your retinas! Graham hits me square in the face and all I can see is a blue blob in my vision for a minute or so. Everything clears and the perfect view I had from my vantage point at the front left of the stage was now blocked by two blokes who pushed in front of me. Small tip for all you gig goers!!! When you see someone in a wheelchair, don't stand in front of them. Even though I am six feet tall, sitting in a wheelchair makes around four feet! Standing in front of me means all I can see is the back of your fooking head! Take the hint! The fact that the gap in front of me was about one foot really did mean I didn't want to share my space. Next time I will run over yer feet! You have been warned :). I spent the rest of the gig catching glimpses of the stage every couple of minutes. "99.9" reaches the crescendo and the first five rows launch into jerky dancing that wouldn't have been out of place the last time I saw Wire - 1976 at the Roxy. Suddenly you knew this was going to be a gig to remember! The adrenalin started to course though my viens and the phrase 'cum on, make have it!!!' went through my head. Nice one guys!!!!!!! GIVE IT SOME WELLIE!!!! All the songs from R&B 1 and 2 were there. Plus Advantage in Height. For an encore we were treated to Rueters, Pink Flag and Mr Suit. There wasn't one bad song amongst them. We had to put up with the odd shout from the crowd for 12XU, three girl Rhumba etc. I am glad Wire didn't give in and play them. As magic as the old stuff is, I admire the fact that Wire always do what they want to do and screw the audiance. If we get it, then fine... If we don't then go and see Coldplay or Robbie Williams. I am sure they still take requests :). It was an aural onslaught from start to finish which made my ears ring for three days. I may not have seen much of the stage but the sound made up for it. One hour and two encores later and Colin finishes with 'Thank you Brighton' and Wire leave the stage. Fuck me! Has it really been 25 years since I saw them last!!?? 11/10 I go for a quick wee wee in the Disabled loo. I find out it is backstage and have to go through the 'green room' to get to it. Unfortunatley it was empty except for some half eaten food. Was going to nick a sarnie but the roadie was keeping an eye on me. Not even a discarded set list to blag! What does one say when you meet an idol anyhow???. It's something you plan in your head over and over again. When it comes down to it, I probably would have said something crap like 'Alright Colin, great gig!' and scuttled off into the sunset. Met some of the guys from the list. Mark, Keith, Pete et al. Nice bunch of geezers. Might bump into you again sometime.. ONLY don't stand in front of me during the set! :) Hope to see some of you at the fist gig of The FLeX - once we get a gig that is! Norm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] south coast shenanigans RLynn9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/10/02 5:14:34 PM Central Standard Time, r_j_h@yahoo.com writes: > is "chuffed" good, or does it imply they were > disappointed in the US and looking forward to getting > to Europe? > > I'm sure "Bill" will be along any minute to attack you for your "stupidity" and make fun of you for not knowing another "language".... RL what's wrong with that?(lol)Ari U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:19:47 -0000 From: "Norm Fasey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! Originally from SE London (pronounced Sarf East London). Then moved up to Milton Keynes. Now down in Luton for the last three years. Why would anybody want to escape Luton? :0 The DJ did have some good tunes. Banshees (Hong Kong Garden), Heartbreakers to name two. I think he may have slipped in a AC/DC track at one point but I am sure that was just a mistake. Must have slipped into the box from the 'Monsters of Rock' night or something?? Keith apparently lives about 100 yards away from where my band rehearses. Norm - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! > you from luton then? i'm from luton originally but escaped , keith steele came from somewhere else but lives there now.... > > thought the uk decay bit was a nice touch! p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:21:48 -0000 From: "Norm Fasey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! Nah it wasn't you, Mate. But one of them was with you. The guy in the Adidas top taking photo's ;). Norm - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Astbury" To: "Norm Fasey" Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! > > Met some of the guys from the list. Mark, Keith, Pete et al. Nice bunch of > > geezers. Might bump into you again sometime.. ONLY don't stand in front of > > me during the set! :) > > Great to meet you Norm. Shame it was just right at the end of the night. > Hope I wasn't one of those standing in front of you BTW - if I was I > apologise. And put it down to the drink... > > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:28:41 -0000 From: "Norm Fasey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! The sax player in my band (Lee) reckons there were some good gigs in Luton/Dunstable back in the late 70's early 80's. All the big names played here. Buzzcocks, The Clash, Ants etc. Now all we have is a load of nightclubs serving up banging techno and trippy hard house - 'big fish, little fish, cardboard box' stuff. There are a few smaller places still to play/go watch. Mostly pubs in Dunstable high Street. There is a really good rehearsal complex and 16 track studio though. > > the 2 decent bands to come out of luton were uk decay and click click ; worth tracking down. p > At least you managed to avoid mentioning Paul Young and John Heggley (sp?). Waddya mean only two decent bands. Wait to The FLeX start gigging. Norm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:44:45 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 02:28:41PM -0000, Norm Fasey wrote: > The sax player in my band (Lee) reckons there were some good gigs in > Luton/Dunstable back in the late 70's early 80's. All the big names played > here. Buzzcocks, The Clash, Ants etc. I wonder how much of this is nostalgia and how much truth, though? It strikes me that things were "always better": maybe this is true, given the seemingly greater fragmentation of youth culture, but I can't help but suspect that most kids in '77/'78 were going down the disco to dance to the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack than were moshing up the front at punk gigs. I'm probably wrong on this, but I suspect punk, like acid house, had a social and cultural impact disproportionate to its actual mass appeal. (I'm not claiming this to be an original thought, btw.) > Now all we have is a load of nightclubs serving up banging techno > and trippy hard house - 'big fish, little fish, cardboard box' > stuff. There's nothing wrong with dance music itself, IMO - but I think there's a lot wrong with dance music which descends into cliche, which seems to be the problem with the stuff you describe. (I'm currently listening to Aphex Twin - "Classics", btw, so consider me biased...) - - Andrew - -- "You think I'm dead, but I sail away ..." - the Pixies, "Wave of Mutilation" ('Doolittle') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:49:23 +0100 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Crossing Border For a Review of Amsterdam watch and see and read and burn. http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/journalism/nieuws.shtml?2534202+2584688+2584508+ 9325207 If translations necessary. Maybe later. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:21:45 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] half man yeah yeah yeah I think it was John who mentioned Half Man Half Biscuit the other day. I'm not a fan myself but I thought the following lines from their splendidly titled new Cammell Laird Social Club album were worthy of sharing... "I'm going to see the Bootleg Beatles As the Bootleg Mark Chapman" Nice ; ) BTW The Yeah Yeahs Yeahs are a new entry in the UK charts - no. 37. That's not the alternative/indie/whatever charts but the official Top 40 that's generally home to Pop Stars The Desperates, etc...Yikes! Keith np Marsha Hunt - Walk on Gilded Splinters ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:19:51 -0000 From: "Norm Fasey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! > I wonder how much of this is nostalgia and how much truth, though? Dunno about that, you would have to ask the guy who went. Personally though, when I look back on the punk era I think of it as being full of great songs. I did however buy a compilation called "1234 - Punk and New Wave 1976 - 1979". I was amazed just how many crappy bands there were around then that I conveniently erased from my memory. Like Johhny Moped. OK, he gets a lot of credit for being there at the beginning but it sounds like speeded up Rock And Roll to me. > but I can't help but suspect that most kids in '77/'78 were going down the disco to > dance to the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack than were moshing up the > front at punk gigs. There were! Mostly every other kid on my SE London Council estate. Which made it very 'interesting' to be seen out in the streets in yer blazer covered in safety pins. I used to spend half the time trying to dodge them so's I didn't get beaten up! :) > There's nothing wrong with dance music itself, IMO - Nor in mine. > but I think > there's a lot wrong with dance music which descends into cliche, > which seems to be the problem with the stuff you describe. As long as it's done with a little creativity and not just rehashing old samples and beats. Take The Prodigy and of course Aphex Twin. Two good examples. Both of which are featured in my own CD collection. I even have days where I like to listen to James Brown and Otis Redding :) Norm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:23:14 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Crossing Border ..and if you go here, you can listen to the webcast ;-) http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/events/default/smil/audioparts.sram?2534202+86831 06+8683149+9324524 It's not the whole gig - the first 3 (?) songs are missing... 99.9. Germ Ship & (annoyingly) Mr Marx's Table. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:37:39 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Crossing Border .....what do they do in the encore then???? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:48:18 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! > > The sax player in my band (Lee) reckons there were some good gigs in > > Luton/Dunstable back in the late 70's early 80's. All the big names played > > here. Buzzcocks, The Clash, Ants etc. > > I wonder how much of this is nostalgia and how much truth, though? It > strikes me that things were "always better": it comes and goes Andrew. Unless you live in one of the major cities (or a town with a decent Uni), it depends what sort of nightspots you have in your area. Take Chester for example - height of punk. Nothing that I can recall. 1979 Smartyz had a punk night that I mentioned recently (and a life affirming appearance from the Teardops/Bunnymen at the Arts Centre!) And the odd big gig in the old ABC cinema from the likes of Motorhead and, ahem, Sky. 1980's - basically nothing except local bands in clubs and the odd gig in the sports centre (Joe Jackson, Damned), till a new venue opened circa '89. Walking Seeds, MBV, and the likes. It was too good too last! That venue soon then closed down and since then... Well nothing to speak of apart from oldies/reformed progrock outfits at a couple of a very small venues. whereas Wrexham - traditionally shit as far as gigs are concerned (but excellent re. football!) - now have a smallish venue where decent-ish bands get booked. I suspect that most areas have periods of decent bands playing there. This has nothing to do with rose tinted nostalgia, just that they had a venue willing to put acts on. And as for Saturday Night Fever, I've never even seen it. But I bought Staying Alive round the same time as What Do I Get! It's all pop to me ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:40:15 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Crossing Border > .....what do they do in the encore then???? p Reuters, Advantage, Pink Flag. No Mr Suit, unfortunately. the webcast is about 40 mins in total... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:43:10 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! In a message dated 11/11/02 9:39:52 AM Central Standard Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << And as for Saturday Night Fever, I've never even seen it. But I bought Staying Alive round the same time as What Do I Get! It's all pop to me ; ) Keith >> clap clap clap clap clap clap RL np - Siouxsie & the Banshees "Kaleidoscope" next up- Parliament "The Clones of Dr. Funkenstein" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:31:09 +0100 (CET) From: Patrick Follon Subject: [idealcopy] Streaming audio: Wire live in Amsterdam Hi, Wire gave two great concerts in the Netherlands. Yesterday in Groningen and saterday on the 'Crossing Border festival' at the Melkweg. The VPRO, a Dutch broadcasting organisation, has put the Amsterdam concert online in real audio. http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/concerts/concert.shtml?2534202+2584688+2584508+9324734+9324524 http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/smil/concerts/startconcert.sram?2534202+2584688+2584508+9324734+9324524 This was e great concert, sound was perfect. Enjoy! More material (photo's etc) will come. Ciao, Patrick wire@xs4all.nl http://patrick.op.het.net.je/wire/ ============ You don't have to be weird to be completely wired ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:00:39 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! I think Keith's right below about being in the right place at the right time. Someone at the key mid-teen age growing up in Luton now (or many other UK towns) doesn't have anywhere to see decent gigs. A few years ago there was a golden six months when two venues opened up and I saw The Fall, Buzzcocks, Martin Carthy and Kate Rusby but both stopped putting on gigs presumably as they weren't full. Aside from Norm's new band I'm not aware of a local scene, possibly because I do my gig going in London. But I work there and can afford the fare - the average 15 year old is pretty much stuffed. I was at Lancaster University in the punk years, without my own transport, and without too much difficulty saw The Damned three times, the Adverts, Wayne County and the Electric Chairs, the Jam and John Cale. Could have seen Blondie as well but didn't bother. I had to travel to Manchester and Liverpool to see the Ramones, Talking Heads, The Clash and Wire. The Pistols were due to play at Lancaster but were banned as was most of the Anarchy tour. There was a reasonable local punk scene, headed by a halfway decent band called China Street. So, even living in a small town in the north of England, it was possible to plug in to punk pretty easily, largely thanks to the university. I doubt somehow that it would be as easy now. Another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury To: Andrew Walkingshaw ; Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'Big up' from the Luton Massive! > > > The sax player in my band (Lee) reckons there were some good gigs in > > > Luton/Dunstable back in the late 70's early 80's. All the big names > played > > > here. Buzzcocks, The Clash, Ants etc. > > > > I wonder how much of this is nostalgia and how much truth, though? It > > strikes me that things were "always better": > > it comes and goes Andrew. Unless you live in one of the major cities (or a > town with a decent Uni), it depends what sort of nightspots you have in your > area. > > Take Chester for example - height of punk. Nothing that I can recall. > > 1979 Smartyz had a punk night that I mentioned recently (and a life > affirming appearance from the Teardops/Bunnymen at the Arts Centre!) And the > odd big gig in the old ABC cinema from the likes of Motorhead and, ahem, > Sky. > > 1980's - basically nothing except local bands in clubs and the odd gig in > the sports centre (Joe Jackson, Damned), till a new venue opened circa '89. > Walking Seeds, MBV, and the likes. It was too good too last! That venue soon > then closed down and since then... > > Well nothing to speak of apart from oldies/reformed progrock outfits at a > couple of a very small venues. whereas Wrexham - traditionally shit as far > as gigs are concerned (but excellent re. football!) - now have a smallish > venue where decent-ish bands get booked. > > I suspect that most areas have periods of decent bands playing there. This > has nothing to do with rose tinted nostalgia, just that they had a venue > willing to put acts on. > > And as for Saturday Night Fever, I've never even seen it. But I bought > Staying Alive round the same time as What Do I Get! It's all pop to me ; ) > > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:31:11 +0100 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Just a message Graham wonders why an Anarchist in Vera is not asking please for a bottle of beer. I think it has to do that the word please sounds nearly like police .He would be probably terribble fucked up by mention that word. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:43:20 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] half man yeah yeah yeah > I think it was John who mentioned Half Man Half Biscuit the other day. I'm not > a fan myself but I thought the following lines from their splendidly titled > new Cammell Laird Social Club album were worthy of sharing... > > "I'm going to see the Bootleg Beatles > As the Bootleg Mark Chapman" HMHB should do a lyric book. It would be a best-seller. > BTW The Yeah Yeahs Yeahs are a new entry in the UK charts - no. 37. That's not > the alternative/indie/whatever charts but the official Top 40 that's generally > home to Pop Stars The Desperates > etc...Yikes! Now I don't follow the hit parade, but wasn't John Otway in the Top 10 recently? I kid you not! Apparently he hyped himself into the charts via his internet fanbase. Expect Marillion, Nik Kershaw and Ike Turner to follow him into the Top Of The Pops studio! You need to sell about 5 singles to get in the charts nowadays. At this rate, I'll probably be on CD:UK myself before christmas. . Now wouldn't it be funny if the current version of Wire wrote another of their classic, wrongPop singles in the style of Dot Dash, Eardum Buzz, Our Swimmer, In Vivo, Kidney Bingoes, Map Ref, Outdoor Miner etc. They surely have one in them. Top 40 no problem, and imagine 2002 Wire on a saturday morning on CD:UK in between Gareth Gates and Blazin' Crew. NP. Guitar - Sunkissed (Morr Music) - Its supposed to be the new 'Loveless'. Its not, but its still a rather beautiful, damaged pop record. Imagine MBV if they'd followed the dancefloor direction they were taking circa 1991. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:48:22 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! Keith Said and Robert Applauded: > << And as for Saturday Night Fever, I've never even seen it. But I bought > Staying Alive round the same time as What Do I Get! It's all pop to me ; ) > > Keith >> > > clap clap clap clap clap clap > RL Hear Hear. Now I love crunchy, German electronica, I love Autechre and I bloody love listening to Fennesz thrashing seven shades of buggery out of his guitar, and the brilliantly named Errorsmith deconstructing Garage beats until they sound like...an actual garage. I recommend all these. Of course I love Wire in their current blistering heatwave. From what I have read..we all do. But I'd be sad bastard if I listened to that all the time. I need a bit of Miss Dynami-tee-tee or a bit of Sugababes once in a while...I love my Beach Boys, my XTC, and I love downloading silly 80s pop songs. (Insert your own Pop fetish here). Why? Cos they are brilliant songs! and....Cos you need some ballast...otherwise you just tip over in the murky waters of 'Serious Music' and drown in your own clever-spunk. You then get sucked into your own fanzine-assisted masturbatory hell...and you're fucked and lonely...knowing that your own special music is cleverer than everyone else's. You sit and scowl at your old friends and relatives dancing at the wedding disco....because your soul has been eroded by too much of the hard stuff. WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a plank. N.P. V/A Digital Disco (Force Inc.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:49:07 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Clap Clap Pop Yes! Wire! Yes! In a message dated 11/11/02 7:50:07 PM Central Standard Time, tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: > WE ALL NEED POP! Anyone who says otherwise is a plank. > > i rise to give you a standing ovation.... cheers, Robert (the computer illiterate bastard from evil america who doesn't know shit about NWW, Coil, or Bruce Gilbert and who laughs far too much for some anal retentive nerdy bastards ) np-The Slits "Cut" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:17:36 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire's wrongPop singles > Now wouldn't it be funny if the current version of Wire wrote another of > their classic, wrongPop singles in the style of Dot Dash, Eardum Buzz, Our > Swimmer, In Vivo, Kidney Bingoes, Map Ref, Outdoor Miner etc. They surely > have one in them. Comet and Trash/Treasure could be contenders here imo. There certainly hooky enough and quite accessible. Like I said earlier, I could easily see Comet be used in a Moby-like manner... hell, it would give me great pleasure. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:19:30 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Crossing Border/Groningen >> .....what do they do in the encore then???? p > Reuters, Advantage, Pink Flag. Same as in Groningen. Appliance were disappointing and flat and in high contrast with a very expressive Wire, who were just..... SO GREAT! Highlite? Definitely Spent! Last friday a huge [more than half a page] article about Wire. Shame there were some mistakes in it. Like saying after their first 3 brilliant releases there was no 80's follow-up. When I lived in Utrecht [1990-1992] I spoke a few times with Tjeerd Verbeek [Trance Induction] who told me he was quite influenced by Wire 80's outlets. http://www.popinstituut.nl/index.htm?dat/index.htm?2735 Bart [more later] ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #382 *******************************