From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #363 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, October 26 2002 Volume 05 : Number 363 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: London calling - a pedant writes [HowardJSpencer@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP ["John Roberts" ] Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] The Wire book [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] The Wire book [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Cheer up, Keith ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Cheer up, Keith ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Play Ball [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk: Re: [idealcopy] Re: London calling - a pedant writes] [Andrew Walkingshaw ] [idealcopy] the vocals [voyteck@webtv.net] Re: [idealcopy] words plot music stories [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 05:47:30 EDT From: HowardJSpencer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: London calling - a pedant writes In a message dated 25/10/02 9:31:57 am, owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org writes: << >>No. Just London Calling. I've made my bed. I'll lie in in it ; )<< >It was recorded in 1979. It was released in 1979. It's an album of the 70s, >not the 80s. American Clash fans could have ordered one mail order and had it >well in time for Christmas. End of story. >Mark >> 1980 is in the 1970s anyway - decades, like centuries, begin with a one. Culturally speaking, matters are rather more complicated. The 'sixties' actually didn't start until 1963 or 4, for example, and (arguably) pursued well into the seventies. I'm not just talking about music, but the 'permissive society' etc. Many times I have seen M's Pop Muzik on 80s compilations, for example - chronologically wrong, for sure, but culturally excuseable? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:46:27 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP White Man In Hammersmith Palais, like Clash City Rockers, Complete Control, and I Fought The Law - which all appear on the US version - were all singles only releases i.e. did not appear on any Clash album. This was until the Story of LP. I Fought The Law was the lead track on the Cost of Living EP. I only had a vinyl edition of The Clash which I've had since Xmas 1978. I bought the CD only a few months ago in a sale at HMV. I didn't even look at the track listing as on the front it had a sticker declaring that this was a restored version with original artwork. It was the US version. This isn't correct - as far as I know the US version of The Clash had a blue cover rather than green. I nearly jumped out of my skin when Clash City Rockers started up. Still, as you say, it's nice to finally have White Man In Hammersmith Palais on CD. Cheers John http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ >From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:00:15 EDT > >i had seen the import version in stores when i bought the u.s. version >(anything to save 2 bucks back then...heck, probably now too!) and one >thing >about it is...i can't imagine not having white man in hammersmith palais. >how >was this song released in the u.k.? i know i could probably search this out >on the net, but i'm being lazy :o) > >-paul c.d. _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:32:29 +0100 From: "Fergus Kelly" Subject: [idealcopy] Kopf/Keenan >they just got around to printing biba kopf's >[excellent] paragraph about R'n'B 01 last month. That was David Keenan what writ that... Fergus _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month. Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:37:28 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP >>. It was the US version. This isn't correct - as far as I know the US version of The Clash had a blue cover rather than green.<< There were blue ones but I think the first US edition did have a green cover - - though a lighter shade than the British Racing Green of the proper version. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:41:02 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 08:37:28AM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >>. It was the US version. This > isn't correct - as far as I know the US version of The Clash had a blue > cover rather than green.<< > > There were blue ones but I think the first US edition did have a green cover > - though a lighter shade than the British Racing Green of the proper version. I thought the US version had different colour writing on the front... - - Andrew - -- "I'm not here; this isn't happening." - Radiohead, "How to Disappear Completely" ('Kid A') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:12:05 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Wire book >>I would firstly like to thank everyone who has praised me to high heaven forbthe Wire book. Very much appreciated. As for any reprint then can I ask that all requests are sent to SAF books and not me. thanks<< Do they still hold the rights? They seem quite active at the moment - they're reissued a new version of the Cabs book, and have scheduled releases about Can and (lordy) Current 93/Nurse with Wound etc. Now while a reprint of ELAH would be nice, there is the small question of the 1990-2002-beyond period.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:59:43 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Wire book In a message dated 10/25/02 8:12:51 AM EST, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << As for any reprint then can I ask that all requests are sent to SAF books and not me. thanks<< Do they still hold the rights? They seem quite active at the moment - they're reissued a new version of the Cabs book, and have scheduled releases about Can and (lordy) Current 93/Nurse with Wound etc. >> ehem..and what is wrong with Current 93/Nurse With Wound/Coil ??? i happen to be quite excited about this book....Nurse With Wound is in the same ballpark as Bruce's solo stuff... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:11:06 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Wire book > >>ehem..and what is wrong with Current 93/Nurse With Wound/Coil ??? i happen > to be quite excited about this book....Nurse With Wound is in the same > ballpark > as Bruce's solo stuff...<< > > I wouldn't deny that these bands have their moments. But all three couch > their music in so much "magickal" sub-TG psychobabble as to render > themselves rather laughable. NWW is probably least culpable of this; David > Tibet always appears a particularly risible figure. Bruce's music simply > stands on its own artistic merits. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:32:39 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP >i have found far more meaning and honesty in an instrumental recording by >Miles Davis, Fennesz, Zoviet France, Pete Namlook etc. and in the sleazy but >honest lyrics of Marc Almond or Alan Vega than a truckload of posers and >fakes such as U2, Creed, Springsteen etc. > >a matter of perspective? > >RL If you took my response to be anti-instrumental (not sure, kind of sounds like it), well... then you don't know me. ;) People who need words are like people who need plots in stories and recognisible images in painting. I really think they're missing out on a lot of what art can offer. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:52:04 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Wire book In a message dated 10/25/02 9:11:06 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: << Bruce's music simply stands on its own artistic merits. >> and by the way, have you heard ANY of Coil or Nurse With Wound's efforts from the last few years? Even if you took away the imagery and pagan references the music would still stand on it's own....as a matter of fact all of Nurse With Wound's output is instrumental and Coil have released many instrumental albums... music that makes time slow down...or speed up.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:49:10 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Wire book In a message dated 10/25/02 9:11:06 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: << << >>ehem..and what is wrong with Current 93/Nurse With Wound/Coil ??? i happen to be quite excited about this book....Nurse With Wound is in the same ballpark as Bruce's solo stuff...<< I wouldn't deny that these bands have their moments. But all three couch their music in so much "magickal" sub-TG psychobabble as to render themselves rather laughable. NWW is probably least culpable of this; David Tibet always appears a particularly risible figure. Bruce's music simply stands on its own artistic merits. >> sigh...oh well..one man's "magickal" psychobabble is another man's good time gnostic fun! .....i think people miss the point of these folks entirely....i've actually been turned onto a lot of things because of the "psychobabble" that these groups spill out...i have read many interesting books directly because of their music..and THAT is a good thing.... Robert n.p. Luciano Berio (feat. Catherine Berberian) "Great Works for Voice" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:54:24 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP In a message dated 10/25/02 9:35:11 AM Central Daylight Time, mflaher3@triton.edu writes: << If you took my response to be anti-instrumental (not sure, kind of sounds like it), well... then you don't know me. ;) >> no, michael....i didn't take it that way at all...i know you better than that! i was merely relaying a instrumental vs. vocals comment that a friend of mine made... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:08:18 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Cheer up, Keith > Which makes me a bleeding Scorpio not any of this dippy Libran bollocks. they always were a particularly nasty bunch those scorpions. and to think, another 24 hrs or so and I'd have been one ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:40:10 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Wire book > Do they still hold the rights? They seem quite active at the moment - they're > reissued a new version of the Cabs book, and have scheduled releases about > Can Is ths Can one a new book or a re-issue of the one that came out about the same time as the excellent ELAH, and got - IIRC - good reviews. Never got round to getting it and regret it now... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 19:07:13 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: London calling - a pedant writes > Many times I have seen M's Pop Muzik on 80s compilations, for example - > chronologically wrong, for sure, but culturally excuseable? NO! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:35:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Cheer up, Keith Time for y'all to stop this silliness,don't y'all know by now that VIRGO RULES.Ari Keith Astbury wrote:> Which makes me a bleeding Scorpio not any of this dippy Libran bollocks. they always were a particularly nasty bunch those scorpions. and to think, another 24 hrs or so and I'd have been one ; ) Keith Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 19:51:32 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Cheer up, Keith > Time for y'all to stop this silliness,don't y'all know by now that VIRGO RULES.Ari Prissy old lot. Always tidying up! Keith NP Kruder & Dorfmeister - K&D Sessions ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Play Ball - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > ehem..and what is wrong with Current 93/Nurse With > Wound/Coil ??? i happen to > be quite excited about this book....Nurse With Wound > is in the same ballpark > as Bruce's solo stuff... different field , tho Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:10:11 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Play Ball In a message dated 10/25/02 3:04:15 PM Central Daylight Time, rayographique@yahoo.com writes: << > ehem..and what is wrong with Current 93/Nurse With > Wound/Coil ??? i happen to > be quite excited about this book....Nurse With Wound > is in the same ballpark > as Bruce's solo stuff... different field , tho >> not really....at the end of the day it's all electro-acoustic, tape music, collage, musique concrete...organized noise.....I don't find Nurse With Wound any darker than Bruce....as a matter of fact Bruce's stuff can sometimes be more ominous... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:16:45 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First Clash LP In a message dated 10/25/02 7:46:35 AM, johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com writes: >bought the CD only a few months ago in a sale at HMV. I didn't even look >at >the track listing as on the front it had a sticker declaring that this >was >a restored version with original artwork. It was the US version. This > >isn't correct - as far as I know the US version of The Clash had a blue > >cover rather than green. i have the u.s. version, and it's a different shade of green from the u.k. version. i think the u.k. cover is actually a bluer shade of green than the u.s. cover. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:30:38 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: [andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk: Re: [idealcopy] Re: London calling - a pedant writes] On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 07:07:13PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > > Many times I have seen M's Pop Muzik on 80s compilations, for example - > > chronologically wrong, for sure, but culturally excuseable? > > NO! In context, or by definition? :) - - Andrew - -- "Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy." - R.E.M., "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" ('Monster') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:28:45 EDT From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] words plot music stories In a message dated 10/25/02 10:35:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mflaher3@triton.edu writes: << People who need words are like people who need plots in stories >> I'm dumb. What kind of story doesn't have a plot? jd ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| np: music with words * Magazine * TCUOS nr: story with plot * Dennis Danvers * Circuit of Heaven--scifi fans ck this one out ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:36:20 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] words plot music stories many of the long works of art previously recently discussed (to exhaustion) - --- Tisbili@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/25/02 10:35:11 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > mflaher3@triton.edu writes: > > << People who need words are like people who need > plots in stories >> > > > I'm dumb. What kind of story doesn't have a plot? > > jd > ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > np: music with words * Magazine * TCUOS > nr: story with plot * Dennis Danvers * Circuit of > Heaven--scifi fans ck this > one out Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:39:26 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Play Ball - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/25/02 3:04:15 PM Central > Daylight Time, > rayographique@yahoo.com writes: > > << > ehem..and what is wrong with Current 93/Nurse > With > > Wound/Coil ??? i happen to > > be quite excited about this book....Nurse With > Wound > > is in the same ballpark > > as Bruce's solo stuff... > > different field , tho >> > > > not really....at the end of the day it's all > electro-acoustic, tape music, > collage, musique concrete...organized noise.....I > don't find Nurse With Wound > any darker than Bruce....as a matter of fact Bruce's > stuff can sometimes be > more ominous... by this rationale creed and wire are in the same ballpark electric guitars, bass drums, repetitive blues derived music by white people i contend that bruse not only comes from a different space but ends up in a diferent one as well it's all very subjective, i admit Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 23:43:29 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] the vocals Finally, it may be time to play some Yoko Ono ... redefining her voice as an instrument in the mix! Any deciphered plot a bonus!?! voyteck NP: Yoko Ono - Fly (a -real timepiece- ... music somewhat tame at times / the bulk of it still has a cutting edge about it (to my ears anyway). However, there's a magic in Yoko's rat-a-tat scaling and corelating inflections while mixing words (her plot) to flow & weave in and about the surrounding music. Or is she surrounding the music? After 20 years of hearing the gems & rubbish of countless artists, this is a welcome revisit! The overdubs of her gentle gliding voice overlayed with seemingly intense obsessive compulsions and nondescript chants telegraphed from her heart and soul work on a non-verbal communication level. Definately in touch with primative / originations of universal (language) inflections, such as that of all newborns through the early month's of pre-speaking. Ever see or hear of twins, triplets, etc or of this early development stage communicate perfectly with one another, however, without words as we know them? Very similiar with animals communicating with their pitch & timbre of inflecting sound. Are we not men? We are Devo! It's all in the art of inflection, Yee Haawh!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 02:12:00 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] words plot music stories In a message dated 10/25/02 10:30:15 PM, Tisbili@aol.com writes: > >I'm dumb. What kind of story doesn't have a plot? ever read hebdomeros by de chirico? reads like a gallery full of his paintings, with some surprises. heh - -another the paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #363 *******************************