From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #355 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, October 19 2002 Volume 05 : Number 355 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] pop news ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Rhodes ["Jan Noorda" ] Re: [idealcopy] being for the benefit of sgt pepper ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] being for the benefit of sgt pepper [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] being for the benefit of sgt pepper [Aaron Mandel Subject: [idealcopy] pop news Some Pop news... James Browns daughters are suing their father, claiming that they co-wrote 25 of hissongs. The funny thing is - and I promise I'm not making this up - that they were aged 3 and 6 when some of them were hits... Hands up who reckons Papa's Got A Brand New Bag was one ; ) And talking of the bizarre (or plain daft depending on your point of view), I've got to quote this lyric from new Tori Amos album (which is not a concept album, but "a sonic novel of sorts"!) "Messiahs need people dying in their name You say, "I ordered you a pancake" ' WHAT!!! Keith NP The Undertones - Jimmy Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:12:58 +0200 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Rhodes I noticed a new release on Swim records a seven inch by the Rhodes called War Day // The New Did anyone heard this one already? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:06:16 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] being for the benefit of sgt pepper You won't be surprised to learn that I don't exactly s*bscribe to the 'fall-by-numbers' description of 'Slanted and Enchanted'. The only song on it that could fall into that category would be 'Two States' IMO. The album is a glorious mix of ramshackle song-construction and lyrical weirdness which together constitute something approaching genius and listening to it makes me feel happier. There's not a weak thing on it. That period for Pavement was so marvellous (I'd consider 'Perfect Sound Forever' in the next ten, just to make that set even longer) both on record and live. I find my attitude to Pavement not dissimilar to my attitude to Wire - great fun to be in the presence of and a band I would like to be in (the only difference being, as someone with no musical ability at all, that I could probably have stood a chance of getting a slot in Pavement if I'd been in the right place at the right time). another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: > > /////well to each their own keith , but to rate the fall-by-numbers of > "slanted and enchanted" over 154........you surprise me. i was similarly > surprised at dan's inclusion of "no more heroes" album tracks like dagenham > dave and dead ringer in a stranglers "best of" listing ; i have some time for > 3 of the first 4 stranglers albums but to me NMH is a horrible rushed out > thing that sounds like they tossed it off in fear of their bandwagon > derailing before they'd paid the advance back. > > i suppose i should now do my own top 10 so keith and dan can retaliate but > sorry i find these things so difficult to do , comparing old stuff with new i > just find it imppossible to do any kind of rating system. but i will try , > have patience. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:26:49 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] read LP burn CD Care as you will of your vinyl LP's, but even new vinyl has some degree of crackles & pops inherent from the day they were pressed (I believe Paul Pietromonaco, several months ago, mentioned elements of vinyl purity & quality to the resulting album vs CD longitivity & decay). Hopefully to compliment and expand on what was said back then, here's a link on recording LP to CD: http://www.delback.co.uk/lp-cdr.htm Reading through the text about inverting a byte sample to c*ncel that sound out, isn't this mathematically achieved? Thus, the musical math query (from months ago) arises again to ask if sound can be isolated & canceled byte by byte as described in the link, why can't sound be sampled / generated the opposite way? Isolate the fingerprinted sound, say Jimi Hendrix / along the watchtower guitar sound, lift the digitized instrument from the song and bastardize it everyway possible or impossible (such as instead of guitar, appoint accordian, xylophone, triangle, fog horn, train whistle, etc with each of their unique range of sound to the bytes). To have Jimi's sound rearranged and then masked in such a way as a fog horn and played within a cover version would kick! If such television's 30 frames per second or movie theatre's celluloid film fools the eyes into seeing a progressive motion, what byte rate / quantity need be accomplished to fool the ears the same way? To appoint a range of sound to bytes, such as your voice, and substitute your's for Jimi's with all the inflections would also kick! Substituting John Clease, Pee Wee Herman, John F Kennedy, Winston Churchill, or 'your choice here' may also prove interesting! Is technology here or would it be like Walt Disney, assembling frame by frame, his Fantasia? Assigning sound byte by byte may be only for those with long lives (or cats with 9!). Emulators and samplers, as I understand them, are close in real time analog & digital input / output, but to redigitize a sound completely in or out of it's context is what I'm curious about. Closing wonder: As the feedback from an amplifier changes with guitar proximity, how would adding a Theramin (spell?) in between or even modified to fit guitar neck to change with fingers / arm motion equate to the feedback / distortion desirability? Another day, another adventure! voyteck np: Beach Boys - Good Vibrations ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:44:34 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] read LP burn CD > Thus, the musical math >query (from months ago) arises again to ask if sound can be isolated & >canceled byte by byte as described in the link, why can't sound be >sampled / generated the opposite way? Isolate the fingerprinted sound, >say Jimi Hendrix / along the watchtower guitar sound, lift the digitized >instrument from the song and bastardize it everyway possible or >impossible If I understand what you're asking here, I think there's a new synthesizer that attempts this: http://www.hartmann-music.com/home/ If I understand their technical explanation, this synth digitizes sounds, then breaks them apart and rebuilds them from their base elements. Once that's done, you can change any part of the basic building blocks, and totally "mess" with the sounds. I'd sorta like to get one of these - if they weren't around $5000 U.S. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:57:25 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] being for the benefit of sgt pepper In a message dated 10/18/02 5:23:28 PM, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: >I find my >attitude to Pavement not dissimilar to my attitude to Wire - great fun >to be >in the presence of and a band I would like to be in (the only difference >being, as someone with no musical ability at all, that I could probably >have >stood a chance of getting a slot in Pavement if I'd been in the right place >at the right time). i remember knowing a little bit about swans in the early 80's, then while perusing the musicians wanted/available pages in the village voice (nyc newspaper) as i always did, i ran across the ad they were running for a guitar player (which thankfully resulted in them acquiring norm westberg and not me). of course i didn't actually respond to the ad, cuz it sounded really snobby, but who knows what would've happened if i had. i probably never woulda stood a chance, hehe. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:03:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] being for the benefit of sgt pepper On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Keith Knight wrote: > You won't be surprised to learn that I don't exactly s*bscribe to the > 'fall-by-numbers' description of 'Slanted and Enchanted'. The only song on > it that could fall into that category would be 'Two States' IMO. Much as I love early Pavement -- and am hyped for the two-disc reissue of Slanted & Enchanted coming next week -- I have to point out that if one listens to "New Face In Hell" and "Conduit For Sale!" one after the other, one can't do much other than smile and think about how in 1992, a quick refresher course in why the Fall used to be amazing wasn't such a bad idea anyway. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:30:50 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] music resynthesis Great link Paul! The neuron looks very promising in it's refined future generations. I read through the highlights of it and my take on it is it does take audio inputs and changes them into computer algorithms, which through it's digital signal processing, takes these numbers and measurements (bytes) for an exact duplicate of the original sound in it's hard drive. Then, it's up to the operator what to resynthesis, morph, time-warp, etc. for his / her desired result. This would be a very essential tool for me if I were a musician and once it's development could prove to me that an isolated voice, instrument, or sound could be completely removed, altered, and/or reinserted or used as desired. The text was not clear to me if whether a selected sound could be 'fingerprinted' and removed to be used (perhaps altered) elsewhere or as such example, my input voice parameters measured out in the device along with Elvis. Heck, let's have some fun and go with Nina Hagen instead!! The desired end result would have my voice exactly replacing Nina's in her full range. The question of this is how natural this would sound in real time bytes vs samplers, emulators, etc in altered (?) time. Can, say a 4 octave range voice be "leveraged" to sound like Nina's 8 digitally & sound natural? Or could my voice have the sound of Jimi Hendrix's guitar as a different example? See where I'm going? If in Wire, for example, Robert's drum kit could be all or individually miked, run through such as the neuron with each drum piece digitally reconfigured with the exact sound parameters of choice. The snare = tractor, tom = jet engine, bass = cow, cymbal = Jerry Lewis etc. examples et al. Same for Colin, Graham, & Bruce's instruments & voices. Colin's voice converted to the exact specs of Barry Whites. Maybe better that of a chainsaw! Perhaps Lewis' bass with Harley cycle and Bruce of roaring river flow. Thematic possibilities such as instruments & voices reconfigured from a nature setting (birds, animals, weather effects, water flow, avalanches, volcanos, etc), industrial (welding torch, hammer, pneumatics, electrical variances, etc), populace (restraunt, diving board, transportation terminals, sporting events, sneeze, etc), the list is endless! ~$5000 is the "base" price ... seems a lot to digitize, analyze, and perhaps isolate a particular analog waveform / frequency, however, an eye should be kept on it's ongoing development ... very promising indeed! ( http://www.hartmann-music.com/home/ in case anyone else so curious) Thanks/Regards, voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:42:09 -0600 From: "Paul Ye" Subject: [idealcopy] lists and lists (was: being for the benefit of sgt pepper) >I have that problem to some extent, though the top 6 seems to have >coalesced > >as follows.... > >Wire - 154 >Joy Division - Unknown pleasures No Doubt that Unknown Pleasures is up there. I used to listen to it on the floor in the living room in the dark until I feel asleep. I would put the speakers right next to my ears and have the volume up just enough that it wouldn't wake my parents. Stephen's drums would echo while Ian sang "Here, everything is my design". Very fond memories of that one. Forever top two, sometimes one. Right now, the third album would be Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness- Smashing Pumpkins. Is that a strange top three or what! paulye154 _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #355 *******************************