From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #345 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, October 9 2002 Volume 05 : Number 345 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Wire news ["Tim" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] louie louie [voyteck@webtv.net] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure ["Paul Ye" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire news > WIRE will be taking part in an evening of performances to launch the TV > series of Iain Sinclairs "M25 London Orbital" which has a soundtrack Who is this WIRE band people keep mentioning? I thought this was a list about long books. I wonder if any of the new intake of listees who posted after the US tour dates are still with us? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:55:52 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure > What do you say we all vote - log onto www. Q4music.com and find the 100 > albums feature and say what your top ten is and why...and get some votes in > for our faves! And maybe we could share our top tens on here and cringe at > each others shite taste!!!<< > > Perhaps we should all submit a chart that has 154 in the top 3 - to give it > half a chance of sneaking in at no 97? > > Mark forgot to mention deadline is 1 Nov 02. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:58:37 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 07:34:39PM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Perhaps we should all submit a chart that has 154 in the top 3 - to give it > half a chance of sneaking in at no 97? Ballot-stuffing? Surely not. (Incidentally, did anyone else get involved in the notorious lets-stop-Steps vote for Belle and Sebastian at the Brits? I'm no great fan of theirs, though I don't object to them either, but Pete Waterman's reaction was *funny* :) ) Anyway, I'd already voted (154 at 5) by the time I saw this post. (Personally, I'd campaign for the Pixies' "Surfer Rosa" to be in peoples' top 3 too. You could do a damn good job with albums-produced-by-or-featuring-Steve-Albini too, I think...) - - Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:18:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] My Top Ten depending on how I feel and in no partcular order In no particular order don't forget :Ari Ideal Copy (can't remember the group) All cats are grey-the Cure Bar Kokhba-John Zorn Bitches Brew-Miles Davis Dark Magus-Miles Davis Oil and Gold-Shriekback Dark Intervals-Keith Jarrett Being There-Wilco nighthawks at the diner-Tom Waits Blind Faith-Blind Faith Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:30:30 +0100 From: "Tim" Subject: [idealcopy] You can't hear the words! Garry P says: > Anyway, speaking of books - I'm sure we've all been playing 'Nice Streets' > over & over, backwards, in vain attempts to make out the lyrics... I haven't. I rarely pay attention to lyrics unless they are exceptionally good (or bad), I always focus right in on the music (unless its a band like The Fall where the lyrics are such an essential component of the enjoyment of the music). I've always been like this since I was a kid. I just hear the vocalisation, the shape of the words, the singer as an 'instrument'. Anyone else have this sort of 'lyric-deafness'?. Maybe it was from my childhood, of listening to AM radio from the back seat of an Austin Allegro on long summer day trips? It might be something to do with also being a fan of the likes of The Human League and The Beach Boys where the music is often best enjoyed if you ignore the lyrics. Examples? "Hey Little Tomboy....Time to turn into a girl" (Beach Boys) "And Where there used to be some shops...is where the snipers sometimes hide" (Human League). Actually Wire are one of the few bands where the lyrics do grab me sometimes, but if there's no lyric sheet with the LP, and you can't make out the words then I just enjoy the noise that comes out of Colin's mouth. I prefer to make my own mind up about a song from the atmosphere and feel of the song. As for lyrics, the more nonsensical and vague the better. Kidney Bingoes is yer benchmark here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:19:25 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] louie louie I concur with Tim that words / lyrics in some songs are such as (inexact or unintelligable) instruments complementing the whole, not the part. Still, I am one who enjoys reading along with the lyrics (when given) the 1st spin or 2 of a new album. Otherwise, who can be sure of what the artist's intentions are? Here's a little history of what evolved around "Louie Louie" by the Kingmen: http://www.tsimon.com/louie.htm voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 20:19:13 -0600 From: "Paul Ye" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure My bad. For some reason, I had always thought that one was always 10:15 then Killing an Arab. But then again I never owned that single. The first one I bought from that era was Jumping... b/w I'm Cold, one of my favourite 45's to this date. Thanks for the correction. I do remember my first copy of Standing/Starring had a sticker on it denouncing the racial overtones. I thought it was funny that it was labeled that way. I had never thought it was a racist song, just a punk song. paulye154 >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >To: paulye154@hotmail.com >CC: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 >09:31:37 EDT > > >>It was Killing An Arab, Ari. > >Don't forget, 10:15 Saturday Night was the A side to that one. Fall of 78' >I think-<< > >Other way round Paul. Killing an Arab was the A-side. > >Caused all manner of trouble when a couple of UK University Arab societies >deemed it "racist" and objected to the cure playing gigs at the colleges >involved. > >Plus ca change, eh... > >Mark _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:29:21 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] You can't hear the words! In a message dated 10/8/02 8:42:19 PM, tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: >Anyone else have this sort of 'lyric-deafness'?. i plead guilty. always been a "problem" for me. > >Maybe it was from my childhood, of listening to AM radio from the back >seat >of an Austin Allegro on long summer day trips? i was in the back of a chevy impala though > >It might be something to do with also being a fan of the likes of The Human >League and The Beach Boys where the music is often best enjoyed if you >ignore the lyrics. >Examples? > >"Hey Little Tomboy....Time to turn into a girl" (Beach Boys) >"And Where there used to be some shops...is where the snipers sometimes >hide" (Human League). > >Actually Wire are one of the few bands where the lyrics do grab me >sometimes, but if there's no lyric sheet with the LP, and you can't make >out >the words then I just enjoy the noise that comes out of Colin's mouth. >I >prefer to make my own mind up about a song from the atmosphere and feel >of >the song. > >As for lyrics, the more nonsensical and vague the better. Kidney Bingoes >is >yer benchmark here. i know the ambiguity addresses specific issues/themes, possibly as often as it doesn't, but it is easier to get by with a misinterpreted surreal lyric than one meant to be more concrete...unless of course you mistake the surreal line for a concrete one, as in the popular hendrix lyric: 'scuse me while i kiss this guy the surrealism, ambiguity and absurdity in wire songs may be one of the things that appeals to me most about them. i also have a very easy time being a cocteau twins fan :o) and as i've said somewhere around here before, i enjoy lots of instumental music and get turned off by singers who don't know when to stop. - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:44:56 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] what, me racist? Excellent point Paul Ye makes of not considering The Cure's - Killing An Arab a racist song; just punk rock. The words aren't masked as I recall, but clear & concise to be interpreted by the consuming listeners / fans. Mistaken or misunderstood words & phrases in lyrics can be deadly (Ozzy's Suicide Solution for example) or at least detrimental in "monkey see, monkey do" lifestyles. Chances are each of us have encountered the "alpha-male" or "mono-men" in our travels, and it is quite different to me to be anti-human, defacing another team player for what they may have to contribute (some people may never know). Sure, everybody can't deliver a "pearl" all the time; most often mediocre steadifast gets through the mundane to our paychecks to live the life we love (remembering all that glitters is not gold). So this racist thought lead me to search the web for such in music, which the anti defamation league has a link. The listing is alphabetical or by country; truely sad such exists: http://www.adl.org/extremism/bands Is this where "falls on deaf ears" has it's origin nowadays? voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:45:08 EDT From: Hatsephsut@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Buzzcocks and the Inland Invasion - fabricated news articles I'm sorry, first of all to do this, second of all I'm on digest and don't know if anyone has commented on this It has come about that the Weekly Standard has published an article by Larry Miller in which he alleges that Buzzcocks made certain comments about George Bush, among other things, on stage at the Inland Invasion - it is completely false and fabricated - this story has been picked up by other papers/online journals including Wall Street On Line - I was there, it didn't happen and I'm sure the vast majority of the 50 or 60 thousand other people there can back me up on it - they didn't talk at all, just did what they went there to do, they played music, so don't believe it if you hear it Again, I'm sorry for the intrusion - thanks for your patience Laurel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:08:33 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] misheard lyrics Here's a misheard & parody lyric link: http://www.amiright.com/misheard/artist/index.shtml fwiw, voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:41:28 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] lit crit or......... > Tipping the Velvet is a Victorian phrase for cunnilingus, apparently, and > the book is by Sarah Walters who has specialised in her three novels to date > in Victorian period lesbian fiction. Not read any, natch, but all have been > well-reviewed. The most recent, Fingersmith, is up for the Booker prize > this year. It's a shame that other lesbian novel "A Rose Fingered Dawn" didn't make it to the Booker prize. If "Tipping the Velvet" stands for cunnilingus I'm sure we all wonder just what "Fingersmith" means... Bart [I'm so very sorry, seen way to many nudge-nudge Python scenes I guess] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:27:29 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] You can't hear the words! On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 01:30:30AM +0100, Tim wrote: > I rarely pay attention to lyrics unless they are exceptionally good (or > bad), I always focus right in on the music (unless its a band like The Fall > where the lyrics are such an essential component of the enjoyment of the > music). I've always been like this since I was a kid. I just hear the > vocalisation, the shape of the words, the singer as an 'instrument'. > > Anyone else have this sort of 'lyric-deafness'?. > Quite the opposite: it's one of the reasons I like Wire (or WIRE: what's the preferred spelling these days?) so much. I've been known to get deeply annoyed by utterly banal lyrics, to the extent of not enjoying something where I like the music but the lyrics are terrible. (I have no objection to instrumental music. In fact, I'm listening to Boards of Canada's "Geogaddi" right now, and Mogwai's "Young Team" is one of my absolute favourite albums ever.) > It might be something to do with also being a fan of the likes of The Human > League and The Beach Boys where the music is often best enjoyed if you > ignore the lyrics. > Examples? > > "Hey Little Tomboy....Time to turn into a girl" (Beach Boys) On the other hand, the lyrics of "God Only Knows", for example, are damn near perfect _for that kind of song_. Their lyrics were by no means uniformly awful. - - Andrew - -- "Now, you can't change the way she feels, But you could put your arms around her..." - Massive Attack, "Protection" ('Protection') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #345 *******************************