From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #344 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, October 8 2002 Volume 05 : Number 344 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Letters From A Dead Man/Lopushansky/OMD [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Big Dipper ["John Roberts" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Wire news [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] (ot) long books ["Stephen Graziano" ] Re: [idealcopy] (ot) long books ["Keith Astbury" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Letters From A Dead Man/Lopushansky/OMD Keith I find Solaris to be the least interesting Tarkovsy film... not sure I've ever watched it all the way through but Andrei Rublev is a piece of work, no? and Mirror and Stalker and Nostalgia you're absolutely spot on in yr comment though wouldn't have been easier to make these fillums in the West. later A > > Although I respect Tarkovsky and can conjure up some > astonishing images from > his films in my mind, I've never managed to sit through an entire film > without falling asleep. It took me three viewings of Solaris > to see it all. > > An interesting thing about Tarkovsky is how he used to > complain about the > Soviet system not allowing him to make films. What he never seemed to > appreciate is that his films would hardly have been easy to > make anywhere. > If he'd been a Brit we probably wouldn't have got half of > them and he'd have > ended up making guff about teenage Northern boys who want to > become ballet > dancers. > > another the Keith > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:52:01 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] (ot) long books Robert wrote... >the more I find out about Proust he seems simply tedious (was he doing more than elegantly telling us how dead and bored he was? should I bother If you don't fancy wading through A la recherche du temps perdu I recommend the fillum 'Time regained' by Raul Ruiz one of the finest movies of recent years...fuck it, one of the finest movies of all time...achingly, heartbreakingly moving (imho) later A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:34:30 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bilge Pump Erase Errata 'Ha! Killing Joke Live'. (At Larry's Bar, Toronto I believe.) John >From: RLynn9@aol.com >To: umur_ot@hotmail.com, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bilge Pump Erase Errata >Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:53:06 EDT > >In a message dated 10/7/02 2:18:07 PM Central Daylight Time, >umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > ><< Killing Joke - Pssyche >> > >i bet this was a joy to play and hear on a loud system....one of my >favorite >Killing Joke tracks of all time....a shame it was only available as a >b-side >to Wardance...although the live version on the compilation (the name of >which >escapes me at the moment) is pretty good as well... > >Robert http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:36:34 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bob Cobbing RIP Ah, bless. Saw him perform at a conference here at DMU a few years ago. Good friend of Nicholas Zurbrugg of this parish - who also passed away recently. Cheers John >From: "Fergus Kelly" >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] Bob Cobbing RIP >Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 17:56:45 +0100 > >Bob Cobbing > >Robert Sheppard >Monday October 7, 2002 >The Guardian > >Bob Cobbing, who has died aged 82, was the major exponent of concrete, >visual and sound poetry in Britain. Long after its international heyday in >the >1960s, he continued to produce visual texts that were also scores for >performance, many of them published as booklets by his Writers' Forum >press, and launched at its associated workshop, which has been meeting in >private houses and rooms above pubs since 1954. His work appears in many >anthologies. > >Born in Enfield, Cobbing was brought up within that close religious group, >the Plymouth Brethren. His family ran a sign-writing business. It is >tempting to see this as presaging his later work, but it was probably the >Brethren's work ethic and single-mindedness that left a lasting impact. >During the second world war he was a conscientious objector. > >Educated at Enfield Grammar School, he trained as an accountant, and then >as >a schoolteacher at Bognor Training College. He began his life-long >engagement with arts organising in the mid-1950s, with Group H and And >magazine in Hendon, which grew into Writers Forum. After leaving teaching >in the early 1960s, he managed the famous underground shop Better Books >in London's Charing Cross Road, venue of many readings and happenings of >the "bomb culture", as his colleague and early Writers Forum poet Jeff >Nuttall called those heady days. > >He was a founding member and vice president of the Association of Little >Presses, a self-help organisation for poet-publishers like himself. In the >1970s, he convened Poets Conference, which campaigned for the >modernisation of the post of Laureate. He served on the council of the >Poetry >Society, during a turbulent period in its history marked by poetry wars >between the mainstream and experimentalists like himself. Cobbing was >awarded a Civil List pension, a fact he never publicised, and which might >be >a surprise to both of the warring factions. > >Between 1963 and 2002 Writers' Forum published more than 1,000 >pamphlets and books, many of them his own work, but he was also generous >as a publisher to younger writers, such as Lee Harwood and Maggie >O'Sullivan. He issued texts by John Cage and AllenGinsberg, and by fellow >concrete poets, such Frenchman Pierre Garnier and Italian Arrigo >Lora-Totino, both of whom were guests at the workshop in the 1990s. > >Cobbing's entry into the world of concrete poetry came in 1964, with the >writing of his alphabetical sequence ABC In Sound. Although he claimed the >texts derived from auditory hallucinations during a bout of 'flu, its use >of >puns, foreign languages, palindromes and technical jargon suggests >elaborate craftsmanship. The text beginning: "Tan tandinanan >tandinane/Tanan tandina tandinane" already suggests a chanting >performance, which it received when Cobbing was given access to the BBC >Radiophonic Workshop with its battery of special effects. > >Owning the means of production (the office duplicator, the photocopier) >meant that Cobbing could conflate the processes of writing, design and >printing. Performing regularly meant that he could heal the split in >concrete poetry between those who presented silent icons, most famously Ian >Hamilton Finlay, and those who developed the art of pure sound, such as >Henri Chopin. Cobbing's anagrammatic title Sonic Icons was emblematic. > >As his texts became progressively freer, any mark - whether letter-shape, >lip imprint, or inkblot - was readable as a sign on the page. Shape and >texture suggested vocalisation and sound to Cobbing and the performers he >increasingly worked with during the 1970s, such as musicians Paul >Burwell and David Toop, and poets Paula Claire and Bill Griffiths. > >Moaning, sighing, shouting, even sneezing, became as common as words or >phonetics. In recent years, new collaborators became crucial to his work: >the anarchic thrash noise ensemble of Bird Yak (Hugh Metcalfe on guitar and >amplified gas mask, veteran improviser Lol Coxhill on saxophone, and his >wife Jennifer, dancing); or the extraordinary series of 300 booklets >written with Lawrence Upton, Domestic Ambient Noise, across which the >two writers processed and re-arranged the other's work. > >Aesthetically uncompromising, and repellent to some, Cobbing's language >experiments could also be fun - as his work with schoolchildren testified. >He remained alert to the weird linguistic detritus he found everywhere. A >late text plays changes upon Liz Lockhead's contention that "A good fuck >makes me feel like custard". Who could resist Cobbing's rejoinders that "a >good screw makes me feel like wet blancmange" or "a little lechery makes >me feel like spotted dick"? > >From his hospital bed, he was still issuing instructions about the latest >edition of And. There are plans to continue the press and the workshop. He >is >survived by his wife, Jennifer Pike, and three sons and two daughters from >previous marriages. > >7 Bob Cobbing, poet and publisher, born July 30 1920; died September 29 >2002. > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:52:20 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (OT) Senegal > He also said that none of the other UK papers did much more with the story > (although he wasn't using this as an excuse). It's a news values thing I > guess. We'd rather read about celebrity than tragedies in far off places - > or at least that's what editors believe - even in serious papers like the > Guardian. Well, isn't this difference just what's supposed to make them serious papers... Bart NP: Sonic Youth - Hot Wire my Heart [LOUD!] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:53:45 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Big Dipper Sorry - catching up on old emails. Yes, one of the used to be in the Embarrasment. I knew that one of them used to be in a band that had supported the Fall and was a big Craig Scanlon fan. Is The Embarrasment the same band? I've just looked them up on the UBL and they have an interesting pedigree I was unaware of. Their family tree also goes back through Mission of Burma via Volcano Suns. As far as I'm aware and the UBL entry agrees, only their second album 'Heavans' is any good. If you like that kind of stuff. I was always dissapointed with their other albums. http://ubl.artistdirect.com/music/artist/bio/0,,404153,00.html?artist=Big+Dipper Cheers John > >BIg Dipper is the successor to one of America's great >secrets, The Embarrasment. >I saw them open for The Birthday Party and Echo [quite >by accident, as I was not in the habit of catching >openers] >They quite frankly stole the show and proceeded to >break up shortly thereafter without ever getting a >major label contract. Bar/None issued a very nice >compilation of what little was recorded called >"Heyday" >By my recollection Big Dipper was roughly half the >'ment and roughly half as good. http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:58:17 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Michel Faber? and long books DeLillo. Exactly why I like him. Bought my sister Libra. She couldn't get into it. Complained about lack of characterisation. Cheers John >From: "Eric Klaver" >To: >Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Michel Faber? and long books >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:46:38 -0400 > >DeLillo. Love his work. I am very into authors who seem to paint with words >and DeLillo is a master. There are a number of authors on your list that I >have always "meant" to read (Pynchon, Proust, Mann. > >http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:14:39 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] (ot) long books, long threads 'American Tabloid' by James Ellroy Astonishing A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 04:21:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Good solo stuff >> What are some other recommendations for projects from Colin Newman, Graham Lewis, Bruce Gilbert, and Gotobed?<< Current bests in my head: Colin: The tracks on the Swim Team compilations, Bastard. Graham: It-ness/Hox, any He Said Omala. Bruce: Ab Ovo, Shivering Man. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.com News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:31:37 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure >>It was Killing An Arab, Ari. Don't forget, 10:15 Saturday Night was the A side to that one. Fall of 78' I think-<< Other way round Paul. Killing an Arab was the A-side. Caused all manner of trouble when a couple of UK University Arab societies deemed it "racist" and objected to the cure playing gigs at the colleges involved. Plus ca change, eh... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:23:28 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire news In a message dated 9/28/02 3:50:09 PM Central Daylight Time, Superflyww9@aol.com writes: << WIRE NEWS 28 Sep 2002 M25 - LOndon Orbital WIRE will be taking part in an evening of performances to launch the TV series of Iain Sinclairs "M25 London Orbital" which has a soundtrack composed by WIRE's Bruce Gilbert at the Barbican on Friday 25th October @ 7.30 pm. >> Did anyone happen to get a recording of Bruce's sountrack piece ??? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:12:47 -0400 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (ot) long books Back in my school daze my best friend was a fan(atic) about Proust and based on his enthusiam started to read the Montcrieff translation of "Rememberance". I got through Swan's Way and pretty much enjoyed it, what with the impossibly long, doubling back on themselves, filled with ellipses sentences, stretching for page after page. I often wondered if it would be worth learning French to read it in the original, since the stylizing seemed so integral to the work, but in those days there wasn't a choice in translation. I moved onto the second volume but got bogged down - it seemed he enters a party where nothing is happening, and 70 pages later he's still there, and nothing's still going on! At the time it was just too much. My friend insisted that to get the full genius of the work, on had to work all the way through as the fragments of story gradually cohere and the time-travel effects kick in (espcially in vol. 6) I enjoyed the Jeremy Irons vehicle "Swann In Love" but have to agree and second Alistair's endorsement of "Time Regained". It played at the local arthouse cinema a few years ago and so wonderfully captured the spirit of the book, and duplicated it's time travelling effects in an intensely moving film. A worthy substitute (2 hour life investment) to reading the entire opus. - - Steve. G - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alistair Tear" To: "Wire (E-mail)" Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 4:52 AM Subject: [idealcopy] (ot) long books > Robert wrote... > >the more I find out about Proust he > seems simply tedious (was he doing more than elegantly telling us how dead > and bored he was? should I bother > > If you don't fancy wading through A la recherche du temps perdu > I recommend the fillum 'Time regained' by Raul Ruiz > one of the finest movies of recent years...fuck it, one of > the finest movies of all time...achingly, heartbreakingly moving (imho) > > later > A > ************************************************************************* > The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any > warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of > this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended > recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that > any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is > strictly prohibited. > > If you have received this e-mail in error please notify > postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the > presence of computer viruses. > ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:51:12 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire news In a message dated 10/8/02 4:24:43 PM GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > 28 Sep 2002 > > M25 - LOndon Orbital > > WIRE will be taking part in an evening of performances to launch the TV > series of Iain Sinclairs "M25 London Orbital" which has a soundtrack > composed by WIRE's Bruce Gilbert at the Barbican on Friday 25th October @ > 7.30 pm. > >> > > Did anyone happen to get a recording of Bruce's sountrack piece ??? > > Robert //////you mean from the ICA? no point really , its all going to be shown on C4 in a few weeks and you can get it properly. incidentally , i just got hold of a copy of sinclair's "downriver" spoken word cd (with interjections from bruce). very good , still available from amazon. really looking forward to the barbican which should be even more fun. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:30:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure MarkBursa@aol.com wrote:>>It was Killing An Arab, Ari. Don't forget, 10:15 Saturday Night was the A side to that one. Fall of 78' I think-<< Other way round Paul. Killing an Arab was the A-side.??????????????????ain't thet just wot de man sed??????? Caused all manner of trouble when a couple of UK University Arab societies deemed it "racist" and objected to the cure playing gigs at the colleges involved. Plus ca change, eh... Mark Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 21:42:40 +0100 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] (OT) Senegal/books/ threads another the Keith, in reply to Bart... >He also said that none of the other UK papers did much more with the story >(although he wasn't using this as an excuse). It's a news values thing I >guess. We'd rather read about celebrity than tragedies in far off places - >or at least that's what editors believe - even in serious papers like the >Guardian. Bart... > > Strange story about the Guardian's readers' editor. He never heard of >CNN, BBCnews or their .coms? These days news is hardly about just having a >correspondent present. nothing particularly enlightening here, but just to add... John Irving's 'The Fourth Hand', which i'm just finishing (not a long book and certainly not the best of his that i've read...), apart from being a basic love story with a slant, kind of straddles these two threads. the main character is a TV journalist having to deal with working for a station that 'specialises' in trivialising, or 'looking for the angle' in disasters such as the Senegal ferry... er, that's it...ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:45:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure > >>Don't forget, 10:15 Saturday Night was the A side to that one. Fall of 78' > > I think-<< > > Other way round Paul. Killing an Arab was the A-side.?????????????????? > ain't thet just wot de man sed???????<< > > Not unless in America the B-side is called the A-side! > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:54:12 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure In a message dated 10/8/02 10:49:54 PM GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > > >>Don't forget, 10:15 Saturday Night was the A side to that one. Fall of > 78' > > > > I think-<< > > > > Other way round Paul. Killing an Arab was the A-side.?????????????????? > > ain't thet just wot de man sed???????<< > > > > Not unless in America the B-side is called the A-side! > > > > Mark ////// different a-side on the original small wonder issue to the fiction re-issue? just a thought......p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:02:47 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] lit crit or......... well i was hoping for some enlightenment to back up the "men sexist fools / all female writers great" thread but sadly came there none. so i guess we'll have to work this out for ourselves. i guess as good a place to start as any would be the tv adaptation of the female victorian novel "tipping the velvet" being shown on bbc2 tomorrow. i suspect this is along the lines of a jane austen adaptation so i figure it should contain much of interest to UK listers , i know i'll be watching. (i 've read a few reviews and none have even at all explained what this title means , any of you linguists got any idea?). suspect it will be quite moving. anyone else bother with "white teeth"? not read the book but it sold millions and the adaptation was well hyped , made it three quarters of the way through episode one before tiring of duff 70's cliches and abandoning it. i trust the book was better , could hardly have been much worse IMO. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:02:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure >>////// different a-side on the original small wonder issue to the fiction re-issue? just a thought......p<< No, they're exactly the same. Same cover and everything. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:18:05 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (ot) long books, long threads > 'American Tabloid' by James Ellroy > > Astonishing > > A Have you read My Dark Places - his account of his investigation into his mothers murder about forty years earlier. Excellent book, though towards the end I couldn't wait to finish it and get it out of my life. Can't really into The Black Dahlia though. Keith NP Care - Diamonds & Emeralds > ************************************************************************* > The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any > warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of > this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended > recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that > any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is > strictly prohibited. > > If you have received this e-mail in error please notify > postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the > presence of computer viruses. > ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:36:24 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Fw: Soft Cell Dates Postponed Marc Almond in hernia shock! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michelle To: Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 5:59 PM Subject: Soft Cell Dates Postponed > 8th October 2002 > > SOFT CELL UK & EUROPEAN TOUR POSTPONED > Bad news this time I'm afraid... the UK and European Soft Cell tour has had > to be postponed and the following press statement issued today: > > > "Soft Cell singer Marc Almond was taken severely ill in the early hours of > Tuesday morning with an aggravated hernia. Almond, who has previously > avoided treatment for the condition due to heavy promotional commitments, > was taken to hospital in extreme pain and will require an immediate operation. > > Marc Almond's manager Vicki Wickham has therefore been forced to postpone > the band's forthcoming UK and European tour, which was due to commence in 6 > days. She has assured fans that the tour will be rescheduled for the New Year. > > Wickham stated "this is a very unfortunate event particularly considering > the fantastic reception the band's recent live shows and new album have > received. We are very disappointed that Soft Cell will miss the opportunity > to play to their European fans but it is impossible that Marc could perform > effectively in his current condition. We are confident that Marc will be > able to perform on the band's American tour in November as planned and will > be fully fit for rescheduled dates in the New Year." > > > > At the present time we have no further information about the rescheduling > of the dates, but we'll let you know as soon as they are rearranged. > > Best Wishes > Michelle > -------------------------------------------- > Theatre of Marc Almond > http://www.marcalmond.co.uk > -------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:30:44 +0100 From: "Garry P" Subject: [idealcopy] It's in your book... Could I just say that this book thread has thrown up some really interesting stuff that I hadn't heard of before - big thanks in particular to Another the Keith for alerting me to BS Johnson, plus the raft of SF women. One book which I don't think has been mentioned yet is 'House of Leaves' by Mark Z Danielewski (who'd be universally known as Mazzer Dazzer if he lived in Liverpool). Both big and weird - and when you first see the way the text is laid out you think (a) how much overtime did the proofreaders get that month? and (b) pretentious arse. But imho it actually works extremely well and all the manipulations of text on the page serve purposes once you're into the plot. Anyway, speaking of books - I'm sure we've all been playing 'Nice Streets' over & over, backwards, in vain attempts to make out the lyrics... Anyway, the most audible things I can make out there are the words "It's in your book..." repeated a couple of times per verse. Has anybody got further than that/got any better offers? GarryP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:18:39 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (ot) long books > he enters a party where nothing is happening, and 70 pages later he's still > there, and nothing's still going on! At the time it was just too much. My > friend insisted that to get the full genius of the work, on had to work all > the way through as the fragments of story gradually cohere A friend was similarly insistent with me when he got me Funeral Rites by Jean Genet one birthday. God I hated it, but he insisted I had to read it all before I could judge - and like a fool I did. And I still hated it! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:31:57 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Letters From A Dead Man/Lopushansky I've applied for a ticket to see the new Sokurov at the London Film Festival in November - shot in one long take in the Winter Palace and covering hundreds of years of Russian history. My jury's still out on Sokurov. Never seen Madame Bovary, but I loved Mother and Son, admired Moloch and hated the one about Lenin. Certainly a director with an individual style... (very slow and shot through filters, for those unfamiliar). Nostaghia was also largely shot outside the Soviet Union, in Italy, as he really couldn't get a film made at home by then. I really like all Tarkovsky's films, Solaris included, but they are in no way easy going for me. Soderbergh has just remade Solaris with George Clooney. That makes my blood run slightly chill... another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart van Damme > > Hehe... the only Russian film I really fell asleep with was Aleksandr > Sokurov's Madame Bovary. Made Tarkovskyfilms seem like the Marx Brothers. > > Though not easy to make at all [Tarkovsky was dying, supervising the editing > from his hospital bed]. The Sacrifice was made in Sweden with members of > Ingmar Bergman's team, including cinematographer Sven Nykvist and actor > Erland Josephson [who also played in Nostalghia earlier]. There was a really > wonderfull documentary made about making The Sacrifice. > > > If he'd been a Brit we probably wouldn't have got half of them and he'd have > > ended up making guff about teenage Northern boys who want to become ballet > > dancers. > > Perhaps Keith, Solaris itself is a bit to blame here. Imo certainly not his > most interesting film. His last three films Stalker, Nostalghia and The > Sacrifice are much much better. > > Bart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:38:38 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure > Other way round Paul. Killing an Arab was the A-side. > > Caused all manner of trouble when a couple of UK University Arab societies > deemed it "racist" and objected to the cure playing gigs at the colleges > involved. > > Plus ca change, eh... > > Mark Coincidentally, this months Q answers a readers question about this matter... Basically it says that in 1979, NF supporters 'kicked off' at a Cure gig, mistaking the band for fellow racists. And then in '86 - at the time of the Standing on the Beacxh compilation - it was taken up by US right wing DJ's at various college radio stations. Following complaints from the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, the band requested radio stations stop playing the song and further copies of the LP were issued with stickers saying 'The song Killing An Arab has absolutely no racist overtones whatsoever. It is a song that decries the existence of all prejudice and consequent violence'. Whilst on the subject of Q magazine, this months edition asks that readers vote for their top 10 albums of all time, which will then be compiled into a top 100. What do you say we all vote - log onto www. Q4music.com and find the 100 albums feature and say what your top ten is and why...and get some votes in for our faves! And maybe we could share our top tens on here and cringe at each others shite taste!!! Keith NP Primal Scream - Evil Heat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:34:39 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Short Books/the Cure >>Whilst on the subject of Q magazine, this months edition asks that readers vote for their top 10 albums of all time, which will then be compiled into a top 100. What do you say we all vote - log onto www. Q4music.com and find the 100 albums feature and say what your top ten is and why...and get some votes in for our faves! And maybe we could share our top tens on here and cringe at each others shite taste!!!<< Perhaps we should all submit a chart that has 154 in the top 3 - to give it half a chance of sneaking in at no 97? Mind you, John Otway'll probably be in the top 10.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:40:11 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (ot) long books, long threads Ah, yes, I HAVE read My Dark Places and I was well-impressed. Read the Black Dahlia too - also fine - but not explored that series any farther although a friend of mine who reads this sort of thing also rates American Tabloid very highly. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury To: Alistair Tear ; Wire (E-mail) Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (ot) long books, long threads > > 'American Tabloid' by James Ellroy > > > > Astonishing > > > > A > > Have you read My Dark Places - his account of his investigation into his > mothers murder about forty years earlier. Excellent book, though towards the > end I couldn't wait to finish it and get it out of my life. Can't really > into The Black Dahlia though. > > Keith > > NP Care - Diamonds & Emeralds > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************* > > The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and > > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > > addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any > > warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents > of > > this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the > intended > > recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that > > any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is > > strictly prohibited. > > > > If you have received this e-mail in error please notify > > postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. > > > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the > > presence of computer viruses. > > ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:48:02 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's in your book... Another fine book which I somehow trawled through a few years back. It's simultaneously infuriating (not so much for the text layout, which I think is great, as for the character of the main narrator) and really impressive, as a faux-found text, a piece of experimenta and for the horror which is really chilling. I found the scene where the room has expanded beyond all reason really terrifying. Recommended but only if you like this sort of thing (i.e. a horror story dressed up as a found academic treatise of a film that doesn't exist told in an experimental style) another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry P > > One book which I don't think has been mentioned yet is 'House of Leaves' by > Mark Z Danielewski (who'd be universally known as Mazzer Dazzer if he lived in > Liverpool). Both big and weird - and when you first see the way the text is > laid out you think (a) how much overtime did the proofreaders get that month? > and (b) pretentious arse. But imho it actually works extremely well and all > the manipulations of text on the page serve purposes once you're into the > plot. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:38:00 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] lit crit or......... Tipping the Velvet is a Victorian phrase for cunnilingus, apparently, and the book is by Sarah Walters who has specialised in her three novels to date in Victorian period lesbian fiction. Not read any, natch, but all have been well-reviewed. The most recent, Fingersmith, is up for the Booker prize this year. So this is an updating of the Victorian era, similar to that of M Faber. Couldn't be bothered to watch White Teeth. I seem to have gone off this sort of Brit novel adaptation in favour of wall-to- wall American series from HBO, although I'll probably have a look at Tipping the Velvet as it's supposed to be mildly salacious and has been adapted by Andrew Davies who has a good track record for this sort of thing. Needless to say I haven't read the book either (I think I'm going to stop saying I haven't read something as it's boring me let alone the rest of you). another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: . i guess as good a place to start as any > would be the tv adaptation of the female victorian novel "tipping the velvet" > being shown on bbc2 tomorrow. i suspect this is along the lines of a jane > austen adaptation so i figure it should contain much of interest to UK > listers , i know i'll be watching. (i 've read a few reviews and none have > even at all explained what this title means , any of you linguists got any > idea?). suspect it will be quite moving. > > anyone else bother with "white teeth"? not read the book but it sold millions > and the adaptation was well hyped , made it three quarters of the way through > episode one before tiring of duff 70's cliches and abandoning it. i trust the > book was better , could hardly have been much worse IMO. p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #344 *******************************