From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #342 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, October 7 2002 Volume 05 : Number 342 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Powys ["Mark Short" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT Belgian mannekens! ["Glenn" ] Re: [idealcopy] IC (OT) Music To Sell Things By ["Keith Astbury" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:49:53 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books In a message dated 10/6/02 5:11:18 PM GMT Daylight Time, saintgermain@earthlink.net writes: > Paul: > >but why would you think people > >hadn't read a novel by a woman , i don't understand? i wouldn't dream of > >suggesting to a woman she'd never read a book by a man , it'd be a > farcical > >comment. > > you've run face-first into the hidden premise, Paul! how could a woman not > have > read a book by a man, in this sexist patriarchal culture? most works in the > 'canon' are written by men, and the 'canon' is determined mostly by men, > etc. it > would be a farcical comment! /////in a lot of artforms it is undoubtedly true that you're struggling to find much representation of a female voice. but surely since victorian times literature is the one area where there's been a huge female presence. maybe we do have a sexist culture , but (unlike music or painting , i guess the other 2 mainstream artforms of that time period) there are numerous female writers in the "canon". at school i read stuff like the brontes and jane austen , these are absolute cornerstones of what is considered to be worthy contemporary literature. likewise the bookshops are stocked full of hundreds of varied female authors of all descriptions ; my point was that any vaguely well read person would be really struggling not to have read a fair chunk of work by female writers. i just thought it was an odd accusation that i'd respond to in some way. p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:37:35 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books >Dan: >>certainly the rules are a bit different between the two (fiction editors >>probably don't have to refer quite so often to the chicago manual or style >>&/or the mla handbook), but i still seriously, seriously doubt most of what >>alexander has said about good writers not needing editors. i also wonder >>what sort of background (another worthless literature degree?) is bringing >>this sort of truculence on ... > >yes, but who makes 'the rules'? what makes a writer 'good'? have you ever >thought through the assumptions involved in your performance of editing? are you >comfortable acting as an arbiter of style and taste according to 'rules' of >almost arbitrary origin? personally, i aim for coherence & clarity (editing, after all, as i do newspaper reporters rather than postmodernists or whatever) & an approach that the great unwashed might actually find interesting enough to read past the headline -- it's apparently an ugly job, but somebody has to do it. i happen to be good at it, or at least the people who've been paying my salary the last 12 years or so think so, & yes, i'm pretty comfortable imposing my approach on the prose of others. perhaps you or alexander could do a better job -- i'll bring that up at the next staff meeting, if either of you is interested in moving to alabama (frankly, i don't recommend it) &/or sullying yourselves by working with writers whose copy almost no one in their right minds would deem picture-perfect to begin with. i sure hope whoever made the Chicago Manual of Style >didn't get anything wrong....to think i've been accepting certain conventions as >'correct' when it turns out someone made an error would be crushing. i wonder >what sort of background is bringing on this sort of truculence...(cognitive >dissonance?) more like "intelligence." worrying about whether the chicago manual of style is right (&, actually, in grad school i remember catching it in an error -- citing "iww" as standing for the redundant "international [rather than industrial] workers of the world, a common enough mistake) is tantamount to losing sleep over whether the dictionary is right or wrong. you can do so, though, if you want. for that matter, feel perfectly free to spell words in any fashion your creative impulses dictate. most of us, i suspect, won't bother reading past the first few words, but we're philistines, anyway. dan > >kristoph >---------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:41:26 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IC (OT) Music To Sell Things By In a message dated 06/10/2002 15:26:45 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn 9 writes: > Just out of curiousity, how is America's view of homosexuality difer from > the rest of the world ......(no, i am not being defensive...just asking a > question) > > RL > Good point.I should have included good old Blighty as well.What I meant really was that one of the characters is hilariously camp,while the other is very good looking & I would imagine equally attractive to both sexes.(Am I digging myself a hole?).British TV has the camp element in buckets.Tom from Gimme Gimme Gimme - Julian Clary & going back to John Inman & Melvyn whatshisface from It ain"t half hot mum. Rest in peace Rock Hudson ! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:08:12 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] British Sea Power UK dates For anyone that's interested (and they're well worth a look) here's details of BSP's new tour another the Keith BRITISH SEA POWER Oct 14 Liverpool University Tel: 01512 565 555 Oct 15 Oxford Zodiac Tel: 01865 420 042 Oct 20 Colchester Arts Centre Tel: 01206 500 900 Oct 21 Cardiff Barfly Tel: 08709 070 999 Oct 22 Manchester Night & Day Tel: 01618 321 111 Oct 23 Glasgow King Tut's Tel: 01132 443 446 Oct 25 Leicester Arts Centre Tel: 01162 554 854 Oct 26 Brighton Pavillion Tel: 01273 709 709 Oct 28 Southampton Joiners Tel: 02380 225 612 Oct 29 London 93 Feet East Tel: 020 7344 0044 Oct 30 Bristol Louisianna Tel: 01179 299 008 Oct 21 Sheffield Barfly Tel: 01142 203 618 Tickets prices vary. Check with venue for details. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:44:38 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Long Books - ----- Original Message ----- From: > No. Alexander, who is me, said that King didn't write many of his books > entirely, and more specifically ones in the past ten years. This is not > general knowledge. > - --------- Yes, but where's the evidence? - ------------------- > > Stephen King's major appeal is that he writes long if not simple books. You > can't have the blockbuster novel being only100 pages. King didn't listen to > some of his heroes like Borges or Poe who both thought all works of fiction > should be short: no more than 20 pages or could be read in one sitting. - ------------------ Some of King's best work is at short story / novella length, but I accept the point that people (and publishers) expect long books from him. But 400 - 500 pages would suffice as blockbuster rather than the 700 - 1000 pages he now offers up - and there's ways of disguising a smallish book as a bigger one through larger typeface, bigger margins etc. another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:43:57 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books Thanks Paul, I'm glad you got to this first as it saved me from replying in like mind. Women writers are not only strong in the mainstream canon but also in the main genres too - SF & fantasy, crime and romance. In fact they virtually rule the latter two. I just don't understand where this line of argument is coming from. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: > > > you've run face-first into the hidden premise, Paul! how could a woman not > > have > > read a book by a man, in this sexist patriarchal culture? most works in the > > 'canon' are written by men, and the 'canon' is determined mostly by men, > > etc. it > > would be a farcical comment! > > /////in a lot of artforms it is undoubtedly true that you're struggling to > find much representation of a female voice. but surely since victorian times > literature is the one area where there's been a huge female presence. maybe > we do have a sexist culture , but (unlike music or painting , i guess the > other 2 mainstream artforms of that time period) there are numerous female > writers in the "canon". at school i read stuff like the brontes and jane > austen , these are absolute cornerstones of what is considered to be worthy > contemporary literature. likewise the bookshops are stocked full of hundreds > of varied female authors of all descriptions ; my point was that any vaguely > well read person would be really struggling not to have read a fair chunk of > work by female writers. i just thought it was an odd accusation that i'd > respond to in some way. p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:55:50 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books In a message dated 06/10/2002 19:38:22 GMT Daylight Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: > I just don't understand where this line of > argument is coming from. > > another the Keith > Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf ? To The Lighthouse everyone ! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:59:53 EDT From: bsajrisin3@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a great day In a message dated 10/6/02 2:36:49 PM !!!First Boot!!!, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > anybody seen One Hour Photo yet? i have a free pass and i'm trying to decide > if it's worth 2 hrs (or how ever long it is) of my time...i could be > standing > on a street corner whistling and girls with nice legs don't ya > know....(just > kidding of course) > > RL > One Hour Photo has gotten rave reviews in the American press, so you may just want to avoid it in favour of the street corner gig....don't forget to carry a BIG book, I hear size does matter (seriously just kidding, honest!) B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:02:30 EDT From: bsajrisin3@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] whistler's corner In a message dated 10/6/02 2:45:55 PM !!!First Boot!!!, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > > Pity the passengers,better be careful Robert,some-one might think you're > > trying to 'pick them up'.....Ari > > > > well...i just tell em' what a nice pair of gams they have then i go back to > reading my copy of Penthouse... > > RL > "Penthouse"? was that authored by the same guy as "The Breast"? B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:25:04 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] whistler's corner ari wrote > Pity the passengers,better be careful > Robert,some-one might think you're > trying to 'pick them up'.....Ari robert replied > well...i just tell em' what a nice pair of gams > they have then i go back to > reading my copy of Penthouse... B enjoined > "Penthouse"? was that authored by the same guy as > "The Breast"? last i looked, penthouse has a marked preference for two-breasted women - i think you're confusing them with another publication Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:35:33 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: [idealcopy] (in)tolerance more philosophical rambling my contention has always been that racism/intolerance is universal - it just takes on a regional odor as to the US, i live in a very working class neighborhood on chicago's nw side this is NOT the center of progressive thought, for chrissakes we don't even have a starbucks, much less a body shoppe there are two gay couples on my block, and while one (male)couple more or less keep to themselves, the other (female) couple is an integral part of the neighborhood. of course they have three kids, and i think that is major in the equasion. there are a few neighbors who might have reservations, but *they* are in the minority here. one of the major sources of bias their family has felt presure from is the Church. last i looked that direction was still coming from somewhere in europe. while i happen to think that i live on an exceptionally nice block, i would like to beleive that it isn't all that much better than the rest prevailing attitudes do not die out in an social epiphany, but rather mutate and fade from generation to generation that said, all my neighbors have appalling musical taste, so i guess you cannot have everything d (who finds himself whistling children's television themes an indinate amount of the time) NW - The theme from dora the explorer (swiper, no swiping!) Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:43:22 +0100 From: "Mark Short" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Powys - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart van Damme" To: "wire-news" Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Powys > > about page 700 (out of about 1000) and had to bail out. The book wandered > > about getting nowhere slowly. This may be one reason why JCP is neglected > > these days - he's just too heavy going. > > Heavy going on what exactly Mark? By "heavy going" I meant "difficult" - long sentences, lots of wordy asides in the narrative. These aren't necessarily bad things, but they're not the things of which best-sellers are made. > > > > Also, his main themes seems to be religious, which isn't going to turn too > > many people on these days. > > Hmmm, I disagree here, His "religion" is very much a paganistic one wich > seems to be quite a popular theme nowadays. I see him in the tradition of > Giordano Bruno and William Blake, with his sexual obsessions as a bonus. Perhaps spiritual rather than religious. I'm not sure if JCP was a card-carying Christian or more of a pantheist. From what I recall of A Glastonbury Romance he had symapthies with both these positions. He certainly disagreed with the Christian attitude to sex. > > Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:31:10 +0200 From: "Glenn" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Belgian mannekens! ! > > Guy Verhofstadt, a Walloon?? > > A loon perhaps, but [born in Dendermonde] definitively Flemish! > > http://premier.fgov.be/Verhofstadt/cv/e_cv.html You, my friend, have way too much time on your hands. ;) Glenn. > > Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:01:25 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IC (OT) Music To Sell Things By > > I think you'll find,Robert,that 'IN GENERAL' Europeans are more tolerant than > > we in the U.S,though of course there's always the occassional Frenchman with a > > knife.........Ari > > > That old wound still hurts does it Ari? ;-) > > Bart Think you meant the (non-life threatening) stabbing of Paris' gay mayor today, didn't you Ari? Apparently the assailant said he did it cos he hated politicians and homosexuals. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:56:01 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IC (OT) Music To Sell Things By > Apparently the assailant said > he did it cos he hated > politicians and homosexuals. half a point is better than none Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:57:09 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] whistler's coroner so what DOES robert whistle at work? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:03:51 EDT From: bsajrisin3@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] whistler's corner In a message dated 10/6/02 7:25:32 PM !!!First Boot!!!, rayographique@yahoo.com writes: > ari wrote > > Pity the passengers,better be careful > > Robert,some-one might think you're > > trying to 'pick them up'.....Ari > robert replied > > well...i just tell em' what a nice pair of gams > > they have then i go back to > > reading my copy of Penthouse... > B enjoined > > "Penthouse"? was that authored by the same guy as > > "The Breast"? > > last i looked, penthouse has a marked preference for > two-breasted women - i think you're confusing them > with another publication ahh, yes, you're right....(just imagine the lucrative possibilities if Penthouse executed a corporate takeover of Mr. Roth and offered up three - -breasted women to its readers.) just playing along, guys... B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:15:22 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books In a message dated 10/6/02 7:37:51 PM GMT Daylight Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: > Thanks Paul, I'm glad you got to this first as it saved me from replying in > like mind. Women writers are not only strong in the mainstream canon but > also in the main genres too - SF & fantasy, crime and romance. In fact > they > virtually rule the latter two. I just don't understand where this line of > argument is coming from. > > another the Keith ////i was actually going to ask out loud if there were any great female writers in the SF world as this is not my thing at all. i've read and enjoyed about 3 by william gibson but that's about it , i'm always guilty of buying more books than i ever get time to read and with the current backlog at about 5 years (given the rate i go through them at present) i don't think i'll be exploring many new genres in the near future. brilliant as i'm sure some of them are , these 800 pagers scare me off purely on a time basis. p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:29:27 EDT From: bsajrisin3@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books In a message dated 10/6/02 4:11:18 PM !!!First Boot!!!, saintgermain@earthlink.net writes: > if you're truly looking for an epiphany, you won't find it. > > when a fish meets the fishhook > if she is too greedy, she will be caught > when her mouth opens > her life already is lost. > > -Mumon, the Gateless Gate we are in absolute agreement re: the futility of "seeking" an epiphany... as to the female/fish analogy, where's me bike?! (a completely predictible response FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY) ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:38:06 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] whistler's coroner > so what DOES robert whistle at work? anything happy and uplifting... afterall, i do work at a cemetery but now that i think of it..whistling happy songs is a bit odd... RL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:52:29 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books leigh brackett ursula leguin not my cuppa - but ms brackett's noir efforts were very nice indeed > ////i was actually going to ask out loud if there > were any great female > writers in the SF world as this is not my thing at > all. i've read and enjoyed > about 3 by william gibson but that's about it , i'm > always guilty of buying > more books than i ever get time to read and with the > current backlog at about > 5 years (given the rate i go through them at > present) i don't think i'll be > exploring many new genres in the near future. > brilliant as i'm sure some of > them are , these 800 pagers scare me off purely on a > time basis. p Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:02:38 EDT From: Superflyww9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books In a message dated 10/6/02 8:11:18 AM, saintgermain@earthlink.net writes: << if the artist freely chooses to be edited, so be it. but isn't it possible that some writers can produce the work entirely solo? Flaubert and Joyce meticulously edited their own works as part of their processes of writing. i'll stake a claim that ULYSSES, for example, could not have been 'edited' in the usual sense. seems likely the publishing houses, ever larger corporations, have a system in place to prevent such 'ego-driven' works from ever materialising! so your indignation is solidified into policy... >> Exactly. What I have been saying all along. Down with all these people who play footsie with the man. Down with these people who hate "individualism." Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:16:30 EDT From: Superflyww9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books In a message dated 10/6/02 9:38:35 AM, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: << perhaps you or alexander could do a better job -- i'll bring that up at the next staff meeting, if either of you is interested in moving to alabama (frankly, i don't recommend it) &/or sullying yourselves by working with writers whose copy almost no one in their right minds would deem picture-perfect to begin with. >> Sounds good. I am there. The Chicago Style Guide is a little different from the MLA guide that most of us would be familiar with. Technical writing and newspaper writing or writing dinner menus (something that I did once) has very little to do with Novel writing. But I could imagine that many non-fiction writers, writing about history, need that sort of treatment. Alexander Laurence "Down with communism of the literary soul" --Liam Gallagher ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:53:26 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books > isn't it possible that some writers can > produce the work entirely solo? I think you know what I think. OK, if it'll make you happy, they're might be a couple of writers somewhere in the world that write so perfectly (and just as important, are that self-disciplined) that no-one ever needs to assist them in any way EVER. > Flaubert and Joyce meticulously edited their own > works as part of their processes of writing. i'll stake a claim that >ULYSSES, for example, could not have been 'edited' in the usual sense. seems likely >the publishing houses, ever larger corporations, have a system in place to >prevent such 'ego-driven' works from ever materialising! Suits me. If I thought I'd like it I would have read it by now! > so your indignation is solidified into policy... Hmmmm.... superfly... >What I have been saying all along. Down with all these people who >play footsie with the man. Down with these people who hate "individualism." That's right. It's all my fault. I hate individualism. I take what's offered, I never question, I never stop to think. I have never had an original thought and I hate anyone that's different. I'm really pissed off that John Ottway - an individual if nothing else - has finally got a top 10 hit (new entry at no. 9 in UK charts this week pop pickers!) I think it's disgusting, he must be 50 if he's a day. I love Atomic Kitten. They're very pretty and they've had loads of number ones. They're really great. Honest! I was in the middle of a response to K. Eriksons reply, but after reading this 'the man' (hahahaha!!!) nonsense, frankly I can't be arsed. All I'll say is that it's so easy to turn this argument round and just blame the big nasty anonymous corporation. If you're suggesting that I think it's OK for some businessman head honcho ('the man'!) to tamper with an artists work for profit, well that's a different argument altogether. I'm talking about someone with the necessary skills and vision to produce or edit in an attempt to improve material/ideas. That is not hating individualism. If you want to wet yourself over some romantic notion about the artist being the singular talent, good luck to you. To quote Howard Devoto (an individual last time I heard, but then perhaps he's a Backstreet Boy now) 'This is real life'. Now...as I'm sure that everyone else is getting as bored with this as I am, I'm just off to do a bit of cloning. Who's for another Osmond? Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:08:36 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books >In a message dated 10/6/02 8:11:18 AM, saintgermain@earthlink.net writes: > ><< if the artist freely >chooses to be edited, so be it. but isn't it possible that some writers can >produce the work entirely solo? "SOME writers" being able to produce their work entirely solo wasn't the opening salvo in this one ... it was the blanket statement (along with the assertion that chris spedding is secretly writing all of stephen king's books, or something like that). that "Any writer ... who needs an editor should be de-published." that, i'm sorry to say, is plainly idiotic. off the top of my head i can't name all of maxwell perkins' famous clients (though thomas wolfe does come immediately to mind), but i do think that most if not all were worth publishing. dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:12:46 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books >In a message dated 10/6/02 9:38:35 AM, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > ><< perhaps you or alexander could do a better job -- i'll bring that up at the > >next staff meeting, if either of you is interested in moving to alabama > >(frankly, i don't recommend it) &/or sullying yourselves by working with > >writers whose copy almost no one in their right minds would deem > >picture-perfect to begin with. >> > >Sounds good. I am there. The Chicago Style Guide is a little different from >the MLA guide that most of us would be familiar with. actually, these days i work with the ap stylebook (which this year finally acknowledges that "teenager" should appear unhyphenated! woohoo!) ... same industry-specific difference, of course. Technical writing and >newspaper writing or writing dinner menus (something that I did once) has >very little to do with Novel writing. remind me to go buy a ouija board so i can inform hemingway (whom i have no interest in, but so it goes), clifford d simak, cm kornbluth, fredric brown & no doubt scads of other newspapermen-turned-novelists of that fact. dan But I could imagine that many >non-fiction writers, writing about history, need that sort of treatment. > >Alexander Laurence > >"Down with communism of the literary soul" --Liam Gallagher ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:18:41 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books kate wilhelm (though the last few years she seems to have turned exclusively to mysteries, where two of my favorite authors happens to be women -- sharyn mccrumb & lia matera) can be added as well. pamela sargent has done some good work, if memory serves, & so have suzy mckee charnas & suzette haden elgin (though i'm biased in her favor because, last i looked, she was still in nw arkansas). octavia butler certainly has earned a lot of praise, but i can't say i've read her (i'd *envy* a backlog of only 5 years, i'm sorry to report). dan >leigh brackett >ursula leguin >not my cuppa - but ms brackett's noir efforts were >very nice indeed >> ////i was actually going to ask out loud if there >> were any great female >> writers in the SF world as this is not my thing at >> all. i've read and enjoyed >> about 3 by william gibson but that's about it , i'm >> always guilty of buying >> more books than i ever get time to read and with the >> current backlog at about >> 5 years (given the rate i go through them at >> present) i don't think i'll be >> exploring many new genres in the near future. >> brilliant as i'm sure some of >> them are , these 800 pagers scare me off purely on a >> time basis. p >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More >http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:19:59 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books > remind me to go buy a ouija board so i can inform > hemingway (whom i have no > interest in, but so it goes), clifford d simak, cm > kornbluth, fredric brown > & no doubt scads of other > newspapermen-turned-novelists of that fact. ah dan, but you see joyce got canned from his first day on the beat when his editor told him there wasn't enough type in the shop to set his lead Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:25:09 EDT From: Superflyww9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books In a message dated 10/6/02 4:13:20 PM, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: << remind me to go buy a ouija board so i can inform hemingway (whom i have no interest in, but so it goes), clifford d simak, cm kornbluth, fredric brown & no doubt scads of other newspapermen-turned-novelists of that fact. >> Like I said newspaper reporting is not novel writing. Or we would not call them novelists. We would just call them all newspaper reporters. Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 22:31:08 -0400 From: "k erickson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books me: >>> if you're truly looking for an epiphany, you won't find it. >>> >>> when a fish meets the fishhook >>> if she is too greedy, she will be caught >>> when her mouth opens >>> her life already is lost. >>> >>> -Mumon, the Gateless Gate Barbara: >> >>we are in absolute agreement re: the futility of "seeking" an epiphany... >> >>as to the female/fish analogy, where's me bike?! >>(a completely predictible response FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY) ;-) well, you caught me. i did a little gender switching from the original, just for effect. now do i understand correctly that you need a man? (i didn't think your response was predictable!) - -kristoph - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:57:58 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Re: Long Books i'm sure you're just being facetious, but actually i have no interest in hemingway because i find his prose unbearably sparse -- too reporter-like, if anything. the notion of my favorite writers, such as hp lovecraft & philip k dick, ever trying their hand at newspapering is pretty ludicrous. & no, i have no particular reverence for journalism -- it's just what i happen to be decent enough at to get paid to do. certain of my colleagues are into newspapering the way i'm into my numerous true interests, including (obviously) music, but that camp has never included me, else i probably would've somewhow contrived to take more than 1 journalism class in my life. (as alluded to previously, academically i'm far better trained to edit books, but it turns out there are lots more newspapers than decently paying publishers. besides, i'd be working only with authors who ought to all be de-published, anyway.) dan > >In a message dated 10/6/02 4:13:20 PM, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > ><< remind me to go buy a ouija board so i can inform hemingway (whom i have no > >interest in, but so it goes), clifford d simak, cm kornbluth, fredric brown > >& no doubt scads of other newspapermen-turned-novelists of that fact. >> > >It's obvious that you have no interest in Hemingway because he wasn't a >newspaperman turned novelist. He was a novelist who did some journalism for a >few years. > >Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:00:00 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IC (OT) Music To Sell Things By >> That old wound still hurts does it Ari? ;-) >> >> Bart > > Think you meant the (non-life threatening) stabbing of Paris' gay mayor > today, didn't you Ari? Apparently the assailant said he did it cos he hated > politicians and homosexuals. > > Keith Ouch... only heard that news-item later... Btw, our queen's hubby Claus von Amsberg died last night. Now I don't cary a torch for our royals [at all!], but he was a likable man and seemed a bit of an excentric anarchist. It was sad that as a royal he was not able/allowed to air his obviously rather leftwing views. He also did a lot of good work for Africa. Speaking of Africa, the ferry disaster in Senegal also took the lives of a brother a sister from Groningen of whom the girl frequently worked in the Vera club [where Wire will be playing in november]. The two also were friends of my girlfriends family. All of a sudden I seem to be the messenger of lots of bad news here... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:05:07 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Rubbish! >> http://premier.fgov.be/Verhofstadt/cv/e_cv.html > You, my friend, have way too much time on your hands. ;) > Glenn. Guilty as charged M'lud. ;-) You can always tell how much work there is to do for me by the amount of rubbish I pour out on this list. Bart ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #342 *******************************