From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #339 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, October 5 2002 Volume 05 : Number 339 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: Books (OT) ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: [idealcopy] Yes! [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Books (OT) [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] Powys (& Pynchon) ["Garry P" ] Re: [idealcopy] Yes! [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Moz on R2 [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] OT Belgian mannekens! [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Long Books [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Books (OT) ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books////I USE TO READ LONG BOOKS ["DAVID HEALE"] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books////I USE TO READ LONG BOOKS [Andrew Walkin] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] speaking of the fall ... ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] speaking of the fall ... ["John M Campbell" ] [idealcopy] Fw: 6 Music Newsletter #17 04.10.2002 ["Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Books (OT) Having just completed Lord of the Rings (which took me six months!), I'm now looking to re-read "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist" (every socialist should read this one - and every non-socialist should too!). But, as it's a pretty weighty book, I might re-read Philip Roth's "The Breast" first- a nice, easy, very slim work, with large print, about a man who wakes up to find he's turned into a large breast. rezMole ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:05:00 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Yes! Keith: > He's not one of my > fave artists, but if we're talking about great *singers*, then he's up there > with Scott, Billy and Tim IMO!) Hear that Tim, you've got a fan! ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:11:13 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Books (OT) > I might re-read Philip Roth's "The Breast" > first- a nice, easy, very slim work, with large print, about a man who wakes > up to find he's turned into a large breast. A slim book about a large breast? Perhaps I could make time for THAT! ;-) Bart [what am I on about? I don't even like 'em large!] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:16:03 +0100 From: "Garry P" Subject: [idealcopy] Powys (& Pynchon) Bart asked: "...any of you ever read anything by John Cowper Powys?" Yes, I've read most of his novels. I think 'Wolf Solent' would be my favourite, and 'Glastonbury Romance' is right up there too. It's peculiar that his work is so neglected - maybe it's partly down to him being such an obscure character. There's a full biography on the way, which may help his public profile a bit - it's being written by Morine Krissdottir, who wrote the best study I know of him, 'John Cowper Powys and the Magical Quest'. Another favourite big book is Pynchon's 'Gravity's Rainbow'. Reading this was a strange experience. For the first third of the book it was a real love/hate relationship, I was constantly on the verge of giving it up; it seemed so nebulous, so difficult to figure out what was supposed to be going on. But something in it intrigued me & I couldn't quite bring myself to stop. At a certain point something clicked and I actually started enjoying it. I think the crucial thing was that I stopped trying to understand what was going on, and started reading it as if it were poetry. I remember there were times when it pulled me in so far that everything seemed to be getting quite psychedelic. Recently discovered that someone's written a book about the book, which explains all the science, all the puns, references and allusions in the book - and this explanatory book is a huge hulking volume in its own right! GarryP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:32:24 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Yes! > This was > followed - inevitably - by the wonderful Yes, a true pop classic by anyone's > standards, during which McAlmont pulled the set list up off the stage and > threw it into the audience, where all those tenth rate cricket matches I've > partaken in finally proved useful as I was able to clutch it out of the air in > a way that Robert Key could have only dreamt about in the recent test series! Hilarious Keith! I could really visualize this, you shamelessly elbowing some of your neighbours to grab it... in slo-mo of course! Way to go! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:38:08 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Moz on R2 > For the Morrissey fans here who missed him on Janet Long last night, you = > may be interested in the link below (you'll be able to hear it soon!) Thnx for this! I'll check it for sure. Greytempled Mozzer still looking very distinguished: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/janicel_show/gallery_moz.shtml Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:58:55 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Belgian mannekens! > Guy Verhofstadt, a Walloon?? A loon perhaps, but [born in Dendermonde] definitively Flemish! http://premier.fgov.be/Verhofstadt/cv/e_cv.html Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 13:16:50 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Powys >> ...any of you ever read anything by John Cowper Powys?" Gary P: > Yes, I've read most of his novels. I think 'Wolf Solent' would be my > favourite, and 'Glastonbury Romance' is right up there too. It's peculiar > that his work is so neglected - maybe it's partly down to him being such an > obscure character. There's a full biography on the way, which may help his > public profile a bit - it's being written by Morine Krissdottir, who wrote the > best study I know of him, 'John Cowper Powys and the Magical Quest'. Good to hear more people are reading his books. The obscurity of his character perhaps lies in his Nobokovian appetite for what he himself calls Nymphets - very young ripe girls [hardly a bestselling-stopper that!] A few years ago his star seem to have risen in France. He was mentioned a lot in their literature programs then. Looking forward to his full biography! As long as it's not too big ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 13:29:30 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Long Books > I am really into Finnegans Wake too. I have memorized parts of Anna Livia > Plurabelle. I have a tape with Rovbert Anton Wilson talking about FW. Some of > those authors that I mentioned before, Arno Schmidt, they call him the German > Joyce, and Julian Rios' Larva is very Joycean. Thnx... very interesting. Maybe I'll look into them. Like Joyce's usage of previous authors I can't imagine modernday writers not to at least refer to him or stand on his shoulders. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:18:49 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Books (OT) > > I might re-read Philip Roth's "The Breast" > > first- a nice, easy, very slim work, with large print, about a man who wakes > > up to find he's turned into a large breast. > > A slim book about a large breast? Perhaps I could make time for THAT! ;-) > > Bart I liked that book a lot too. So obviously just an alternative breast version of Metamorphasis, but a very entertaining read. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:08:18 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books >They are long books but there are also hundreds >of references on each page. Hundreds of references? This Joyce guy should better learn HTML then :) But honestly I find all these modern and postmodern games a little boring. There's a modern Russian author (Galkovsky) who has a whole book that is just comments to another book - another book not existing in any shape, variety, or form. And while it makes for an interesting "selling pitch", you can't base a whole book just on gimmicks like that. Joyce might be smarter, a better writer, more intelligent - but I'll prefer King any moment :) Think about - what is the music that has hundreds of references in each note called? Potpourri, if I'm not mistaken. Or maybe Elastica :) Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:56:41 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books >>They are long books but there are also hundreds >>of references on each page. > >Hundreds of references? This Joyce guy should better learn HTML then :) > >But honestly I find all these modern and postmodern games a little boring. >There's a modern Russian author (Galkovsky) who has a whole book that is >just comments to another book - another book not existing in any shape, >variety, or form. And while it makes for an interesting "selling pitch", you >can't base a whole book just on gimmicks like that. Joyce might be smarter, >a better writer, more intelligent - but I'll prefer King any moment :) ditto (obviously). i mean, i'm trained as a book editor, & for going on 12 years now i've worked as a newspaper editor ... & after spending most of my adult life wrestling with others' words (including 6 or so years as a reporter wrestling with my own), i'm the first to admit that my main interest in reading is for entertainment, rather than some abstruse page-by-page summary of what a given author knows about any- & everything. (besides, i've got philip k dick for that.) similarly, i'd rather listen to the fall or even shampoo than, say, beethoven. if that makes me a dunce, color me guilty. dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:45:46 +0100 From: "DAVID HEALE" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books////I USE TO READ LONG BOOKS HI ALL i use to read long books..... now even long e mails are too much.... Now where's me spec's... I'm sure i had a great quote for times like these.... Philip Larkin ( ultra conservative English : poet...who maybe was edging a bit to close towards crypto- fascism for my liking.... said "BOOKS ARE CRAP and your parents fuck you up" maybe he was onto something.... NR. (NOW READING) " WAR AND PEACE" TOLSTOY - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan bailey" To: "ideal copy" Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books > >>They are long books but there are also hundreds > >>of references on each page. > > > >Hundreds of references? This Joyce guy should better learn HTML then :) > > > >But honestly I find all these modern and postmodern games a little boring. > >There's a modern Russian author (Galkovsky) who has a whole book that is > >just comments to another book - another book not existing in any shape, > >variety, or form. And while it makes for an interesting "selling pitch", > you > >can't base a whole book just on gimmicks like that. Joyce might be smarter, > >a better writer, more intelligent - but I'll prefer King any moment :) > > ditto (obviously). i mean, i'm trained as a book editor, & for going on 12 > years now i've worked as a newspaper editor ... & after spending most of my > adult life wrestling with others' words (including 6 or so years as a > reporter wrestling with my own), i'm the first to admit that my main > interest in reading is for entertainment, rather than some abstruse > page-by-page summary of what a given author knows about any- & everything. > (besides, i've got philip k dick for that.) > > similarly, i'd rather listen to the fall or even shampoo than, say, > beethoven. if that makes me a dunce, color me guilty. > > dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:16:29 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books////I USE TO READ LONG BOOKS On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 05:45:46PM +0100, DAVID HEALE wrote: > HI ALL > i use to read long books..... now even long e mails are too much.... > Now where's me spec's... I'm sure i had a great quote for times like > these.... > > Philip Larkin ( ultra conservative English : poet...who maybe was edging a > bit to close towards crypto- fascism for my liking.... said "BOOKS ARE CRAP > and your parents fuck you up" > maybe he was onto something.... "They fuck you up, your mum and dad, They may not mean to but they do; They fill you up with all their faults And add some extra, just for you ..." (first stanza of "This be the Verse") Larkin was a set poet for Higher English. Much of his poetry was not to my taste, but I really liked his "An Arundel Tomb": http://home.t-online.de/home/Friederike.Ringel/l_tomb.htm (cheers Google). Maybe I'm too sentimental... - - Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:03:46 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books At 10:04 PM 10/3/02 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 10/3/02 12:44:36 PM, mflaher3@triton.edu writes: > ><< Not having time to read long books is understandable. But yes, these books >(and many more are worth the time. > >> > >Sounds like you read most of Joyce too. What attracted you to his work? Most >Irish think he's pretentious. > >Alexander I suppose he is at times. He also changed literature in English. Certainly true in Ireland, although perhaps more because of DUBLINERS than ULYSSES. I don't know if this is really the place to gointo it, but the whole epiphany and paralysis thing is pretty brilliant. MF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:28:42 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] speaking of the fall ... anyone have a clue what this is? Fall: Listening (CD) Release Date: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:38:58 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] speaking of the fall ... In a message dated 10/4/02 7:31:20 PM GMT Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > anyone have a clue what this is? > > > Fall: Listening (CD) > Release Date: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 ////saw 'em last night in gloucester , very good stuff. they were selling a new release MES spoken word CD but i don't think it was called "listening". its on action records so i guess go check out ; www.action-records.co.uk p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:40:35 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] speaking of the fall ... probably not the same thing, then. this one is listed as being on cog sinister. dan >In a message dated 10/4/02 7:31:20 PM GMT Daylight Time, >dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > > >> anyone have a clue what this is? >> >> >> Fall: Listening (CD) >> Release Date: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 > >////saw 'em last night in gloucester , very good stuff. they were selling a >new release MES spoken word CD but i don't think it was called "listening". >its on action records so i guess go check out ; > >www.action-records.co.uk > >p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:58:42 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books I bought A Glastonbury Romance 25 years ago about the same time as Ulysses and the Magic Mountain but have I ever read them? No. So perhaps my bewailing not reading enough has been a longstanding problem! another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart van Damme > > Talking about visionaries, has any of you ever read anything by John Cowper > Powys? Wolf Solent? Maiden Castle? Porius? [all BIG books btw]. Imo he's > right up there with Joyce and Mann. Only once I've met someone who's read > him. > > Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:03:19 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books Yeah, some to think of it it may have been ploughing through the grossly inflated 'It' which put me off big books. It certainly put me off King who I haven't gone back to since despite having read virtually everything he published up to that point. The best long horror book I ever read (better even than The Stand) is Dan Simmon's 'Carrion Comfort' which is 800+ pages but is a miracle of plotting. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: dan bailey To: ideal copy Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books > given my undoubtedly pitiable disinterest in virtually all non-genre > fiction, probably the only 800-plus-page works of fiction i've ever read are > stephen king's the stand & it. > > as for nonfiction, william manchester's the glory & the dream, a survey of > u.s. history from '32-'72, is 1,594 pp. in the 2-volume hardcover edition > (crowding a few more words per page in the subsequent 1-volume trade-paper > edition brought the page count down by a couple of hundred, i think), & i > somehow managed to read it 5 times in high school, & did so a 6th time 2 > years ago. that tome gets a lot of the credit/blame for my eventual > specialization in post-depression u.s. history ... it also introduced me to > the first few lines of what are probably my 2 favorite poems ever, gregory > corso's "marriage" & allen ginsberg's "america." > > dan > > > > > > >I've read the following from your list: > > > >>James Joyce: Ulysses (5 times) > >>Marcel Proust: Remembrance of Time Lost > >(Better known as In Search of Lost Time--originally mistransllated as > >"Remembrance of Things Past) :) > >>Vladimir Nabokov: Ada > > > >Not having time to read long books is understandable. But yes, these books > >(and many more are worth the time. > > > >Stopping just as I'm about to hit the soapbox, > > > >Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:30:08 -0700 From: "John M Campbell" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] speaking of the fall ... Voiceprint: Reissues of Shift-Work & Code: Selfish on 23 Sept. Listening In is a new comp, out on Oct. 14. Reissues of Live At The Witch Trials (remastered), Dragnet, Hex Enduction Hour & Room To Live, all with bonus tracks, will be along in a month or so. More live CDs will come next year. Cheers, johnc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan bailey" To: "ideal copy" Cc: "Andrew Morgan" Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:28 AM Subject: [idealcopy] speaking of the fall ... > anyone have a clue what this is? > > > Fall: Listening (CD) > Release Date: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:54:16 EDT From: Superflyww9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books In a message dated 10/4/02 7:13:01 AM, bamboo7431@hotmail.com writes: << But honestly I find all these modern and postmodern games a little boring. There's a modern Russian author (Galkovsky) who has a whole book that is just comments to another book - another book not existing in any shape, variety, or form. >> That sounds like an interesting book. I think that there are several books like that. "Pale Fire" by Nabokov is a poem by imaginary poet and has notations by an imaginary critic. "If On A Winter's Night A Traveler" by Italo Calvino is like that. I don't think that they are boring. I just think that people like reading conventional novels. Alexander Laurence www.freewilliamsburg.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:04:43 EDT From: Superflyww9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long Books In a message dated 10/4/02 7:57:28 AM, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: << i'm the first to admit that my main interest in reading is for entertainment, rather than some abstruse page-by-page summary of what a given author knows about any- & everything. >> When asked "Experimental writing has been undermined by lazy readers and corporate tendencies of editors and publishers. How accurate is the previous statement?" author Gilbert Sorrentino said the follwoing: "Absolutely accurate. But it's always been absolutely accurate. Joyce, Pound, and (William Carlos) Williams commanded the smallest of audiences and were shunned by what we now think of as "major" publishing houses. Publishers have always been craven when the odds are not in their favor, it's just enhanced nowadays because there is so much money to be made if the publisher can hit the shit machine. What is most surprising to me is the number of--what can I call them?-- "absent" books published. These are books that have no literary merit, no spirit of aesthetic adventure, no rough but interesting formal design, and--this is most important--no chance of commercial success! That's what is so amazing to me--not the number of Judith Krantz-like novels published, nor the Calvin Trillin-Garrison Keillor warm and wise and witty and wonderful malarkey, but the novels that just lie there: life and love in a small town in Northern California, sexual awakening in a Baptist family in Pennsylvania--daughter flees to Greenwich Village, meets bum who makes her pregnant, discovers feminism--and on and on. Were I running these houses, I'd can all these editors in a minute. If they can't make millions, would be my thinking, I'll be God damned if they're going to put out excrement that will only break even, i.e., if we want to break even, I'd say, let's publish BOOKS. But, of course, the chances are that the people who own these houses would not know a book if it buggered them." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:00:27 +0100 From: "Mark Short" Subject: [idealcopy] Powys (& Pynchon) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Short" To: "Garry P" Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Powys (& Pynchon) > > > > Bart asked: "...any of you ever read anything by John Cowper Powys?" > > > > Yes, I've read most of his novels. I think 'Wolf Solent' would be my > > favourite, and 'Glastonbury Romance' is right up there too. It's peculiar > > that his work is so neglected - maybe it's partly down to him being such > an > > obscure character. There's a full biography on the way, which may help > his > > public profile a bit - it's being written by Morine Krissdottir, who wrote > the > > best study I know of him, 'John Cowper Powys and the Magical Quest'. > > > > GarryP > > > Wolf Solent was the first Powys book I read, and I liked its Stanley Spencer > vibe. Not long afterwards, AGlastonbury Romance was reprinted, and I got to > about page 700 (out of about 1000) and had to bail out. The book wandered > about getting nowhere slowly. This may be one reason why JCP is neglected > these days - he's just too heavy going. Also, his main themes seems to be > religious, which isn't going to turn too many people on these days. > > In the UK most of his books are out of print. At one time (not sure when) > the boss of a shirt manufacturing company subsidised the publication of his > books. > > Mark S ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 01:01:41 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Fw: 6 Music Newsletter #17 04.10.2002 Bowie, Clash and Moz fans...read on! > Stand by your beds and lock up your daughters - It's another charismatic and beguiling 6 Music Newsletter. > > CONTENTS > * An Evening with David Bowie - new interview and live set from the Thin White Duke plus the definitive BBC documentary, and a chance to win the current album. > * Shows - Upcoming guests, Morrissey exclusive, live music and more > * Dream Ticket - Live tracks from the best bands in the world in your front room seven days a week. > * Aqualung - Hear the whole album online > * Album of the Day - top tracks from the best albums . ever? > * Mick Jones & Coldplay - Listen back to 6 Music's latest big name interviews > ======================================================= > > - AN EVENING WITH DAVID BOWIE - > This weekend 6 Music's getting all thin white dukey. On Sunday from 1800 Bob Harris presents an evening dedicated to rock's most enduring icon. Hear classic Bowie tracks explained by the man himself as 6 Music raids the BBC archive. And hear the man's thought's on his current album Heathen, in a brand new Gary Crowley interview. From 1900 you can hear Bowie's BBC session recorded last week at our Maida Vale studios, then from 2000 educate yourself with the first part of the definitive BBC documentary Golden Years. The series continues during Tom Robinson's Evening Sequence, Monday - Thursday at 9pm. > Plus we have a world exclusive with the first play on the radio of tracks from David Bowie's set at Glastonbury 2000 during Suggs' programme tomorrow (Saturday 4 October) > And don't miss our excellent new Bowie section on the website, for more exclusive interview clips plus a chance to vote for your favourite Bowie track and WIN a copy of Heathen > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/artists/bowie > > - SHOWS - > Don't miss this Tuesday's Dream Ticket for a chance to hear Mancunian bedsit legend MORRISSEY's only broadcast interview. Moz spoke to 6 Music's Janice Long, and you can hear the interview and his exclusive live performance on Tuesday from 2200-0000. > Also this week KATHRYN WILLIAMS talks Tracey MacLeod through the soundtrack of her life on My Life In CD, and DAWN OF THE REPLICANTS join Bruce Dickinson on Sunday's Freak Zone. > On Monday ex-Stranglers frontman HUGH CORNWALL is in with Phill Jupitus, and Manc ravers 808 STATE join Tom Robinson. Gary Burton is sitting in for Andrew Collins all week with guests including INTERPOL on Tuesday. Gideon Coe's live music guests this week will be ROSIE THOMAS (Monday), THE CZARS (Tuesday), THE SOFT BOYS (Thursday) and ANDY WHITE (Friday). > Other highlights this week include TORI AMOS talking to Tom on Wednesday's Evening Sequence and Watchdog interrogator NICKY CAMPBELL guesting on Liz's It's My Party on Friday > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/presenters/ > > - DREAM TICKET - > No other station in the world brings you two hours a day of the best live music from the last 30 years. Over the next seven days Janice Long will bring you tracks recorded exclusively for the BBC by Fleetwood Mac, Iron Maiden, Morrissey, Radiohead, The Specials, Ronnie Lane, Curtis Mayfield, Orbital , Dave Edmunds, Focus, The Stone Roses and many others. And if you miss a programme when it first goes out, you can now listen back to each show online in its entirety for a full seven days after broadcast via the BBC Radio Player. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/bbcsessions/dream_ticket.shtml > > - AQUALUNG EXCLUSIVE - > We've had loads of emails asking us about current 6 Music favourite tune Strange and Beautiful, by Aqualung. So we went down to South London to meet up with Aqualung mainman Matt Hales. You can watch our video interview, hear 6 Music session tracks and best of all listen to the whole Aqualung album online. Are we spoiling you or what? > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/artists/aqualung > > - MICK JONES & COLDPLAY - > And if that wasn't enough, also new to the 6 Music site, you can listen back to Coldplay talking to Andrew Collins and Mick Jones talking to Liz Kershaw and listen to key tracks by both acts in our newly expanded Artists pages > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/artists/coldplay/ > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/artists/mick_jones/ > And while you're there, see how well you score on our new 6ixel game. Play online or download for permanent digital enlightenment > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/6ixel/ > > - ALBUMS OF THE DAY - > Every day we pick a classic album that's stood the test of time, or a new CD which sounds good to us. We play tracks throughout the day, and you can read more about each album as well as listen to excerpts and find recommended weblinks on the 6 Music site. Coming up this week; > Sat: Dusty Springfield - Dusty in Memphis > Mon: Puressence - Planet Helpless > Tues: Oasis - Definitely Maybe > Wed: India Arie - Voyage To India > Thu: Neil Young - After The Gold Rush > Fri: Alex Lloyd - Watching Angels Mend > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/joyof6/aotd.shtml > > - 24 HOUR BRUCE, BRINSLEY, BOB & CRAIG - > Don't forget that as well as the Dream Ticket, the BBC Radio Player lets you listen to the likes of Brinsley Forde, Bruce Dickinson, Bob Harris and Craig Charles whenever it suits you, for a full seven days after broadcast. And if you're quick you can still catch highlights from the Kirsty MacColl tribute concert as well. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/help/aod.shtml > > That's your lot then, except to remind you that if you've anything at all to say about 6 Music or the tunes we play, the message boards are an excellent place to have your say. You'll find them at > http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2.cgi?&board=6music > > Enjoy your weekend > Love from the 6 Music newsletter giraffe. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long books and Longer Threads - --- Superflyww9@aol.com wrote:. ... > When asked "Experimental writing has been undermined > by lazy readers and > corporate tendencies of editors and publishers. How > accurate is the previous > statement?" author Gilbert Sorrentino said the > follwoing: ... OK - I'll bite The answer made some sense but the question was more enlightening Experimental writing? Lazy Readers? Is it possible that the interrogator has seen a few rejection slips in recent memory? What is this thing called experimental anyways? Seems to me most artistic movements have better names than that. I always think of 'experimental' as a label applied by the lacking in imagination to like works which fail the test of simple cohesion. bleep - squonk - "It's EXPERIMENTAL" hey - I know I've played that card ;) I mean - is Bruce 'experimental'? Not in my book - I don't particularly like labels, but I think his work has progressed well beyond experimentation. and 'experimental writing' - what like cut-ups - no that theory is well explored - stream of conciousness - the same my favorite 'serious' author, anthony burgess, is extremely critical of his most famous novel, a clockwork orange, precisesly becaus of it's experimentation with inventing a language his contention was that it was poor writing that caused readers to have to flip to the dictionary in the appendix to figure out the gist of dialogue and i think he was right although when i first read it in high school, i thought the device was brilliant but at that time i was busy proving that i was smarter than the majority of the world the wisdom of age reveals that the significant comparison is the minority who number in the millions worldwide and are way more fucking brilliant than you ever might hope to be and most of them are not novelists, i assure you Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 04:03:28 EDT From: Superflyww9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Long books and experimental In a message dated 10/4/02 6:55:56 PM, rayographique@yahoo.com writes: << Is it possible that the interrogator has seen a few rejection slips in recent memory?>> Not really. Although the author has a book Mulligan Stew that begins with 25 rejection slips. You are right. It's a lazy category. A lot of bogus shit can be passed off as "experiemental." Like the work of Kathy Acker and Burroughs. Actually Burroughs was a better writer before "the cutup." Books liek Junkie were good. I would say yeah. His stuff has more to do with experimental noise and avant-garde jazz and electronic music. I think when I was talking about "experimental" writing I was specifically talking about the Oulipo groupa and any writing who is interested in exploration in form and any of the post-Joyce people like Schmidt, Rios, Sollers, Maurice Roche.... Then there is the Nouveau Roman writing. All this is mostly French writers from the 1950s and 1960s. It was mostly just Russian words. It was legitmate. It meant that Russia had taken over the world and the language. Russian words had invaded the English language like the French did 1000 years ago. It wasn't really experimentation. It was influenced by Joyce and Finnegans Wake though. But overall it was a typical novel with a secret language, special words like some sci-fi novels like ones by Kurt Vonnegut. I like most of what I read by Anthony Burgess but I don't think that he's a great writer. I think that the initial difficulties people have with the language when that book came out was the same difficulties people have now reading Irvine Welsh and who not Scottish. If he said that above, I think he was wrong. There just shouldn't have been an appendix. Books like Larva by Julian Rios have four different sections to flip back and forth from, making you have three fingers in the pages when reading it. I also think that The Great Fire of London by Jacques Roubaud had some strange appendix and so does Infinite Jest by D. F. Wallace. Reading any book one particular way is old-fashioned. Alexander Laurence www.billburg.com/artists/alaurence ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #339 *******************************