From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #309 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, September 13 2002 Volume 05 : Number 309 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] it's a show [Mike Edwards ] [idealcopy] Dan wrote..... [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] US tour pics [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] souveniers - gig stuff ["Mrduul" ] RE: [idealcopy] canadian immigrant seahorse ["Eric Klaver" ] RE: [idealcopy] R&B Poll ["Eric Klaver" ] RE: [idealcopy] My Request Spot... ["Eric Klaver" ] [idealcopy] Wire Show Tommorrow Night.. [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: RE: [idealcopy] R&B Poll [Superflyww9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Wire Show Tommorrow Night.. [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Wire Show Tommorrow Night.. [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] souveniers - gig stuff [Andrew Westmeyer ] [idealcopy] The Guide to the World. [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] The Guide to the World. more [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] The Guide to the World. more [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] The Guide to the World. more [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] My Request Spot... [Paul Pietromonaco ] [idealcopy] re:reply to robert [Alistair Tear ] [idealcopy] Fwd: Big Takeover 51 taking shape! Last Burning Embers to play with Gene! Springhouse is back and will open for Chameleons! New Even Worse web site! [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:43:27 -0400 From: Mike Edwards Subject: [idealcopy] it's a show any tapes yet of the new live WIRE? I won't be able to see them on their brief US tour and I'm anxious to hear the results of the excellent new material. Also, anybody willing to burn a copy of Pink Flag #1 (rehearsal CD) for a trade? Thanks- Mike Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do? -Epicurus, philosopher (c.341-270 BCE) Come see The Mike und Pat reader! http://CFT.tripod.com/mikeundpat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 02:56:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Dan wrote..... wow -- who knew? bart simpson has joined the list. personally, i'd havepreferred lisa, purely in hopes of having a better chance at moreintelligent remarks than the one below, but what the hell ...dan>WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd like to appologise to the group for introducing Scott to the list,in the 2 years I have known him thru the shriek site there was never a hint of racism,I have also lost his 'friendship' for telling him he needs to grow up.' hope none of you were too offended by his remarks.Ari Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 06:20:30 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 << Then Miles should 'organise' a poll and all of us should vote on which ones to leave out rather than which ones to include,the info would then be passed on to le boyz,who could then blame us in the liner notes for 'what you hold in your hand' sorta thingy.whaddya say Miles? >> I think we should leave them to it! I value their judgement enough to leave them to their own devices there! Besides, Wire have done this already on the A list. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 03:36:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] US tour pics Fergus wrote: >> Take plenty of photos/video at the Wire gigs ! Get right up front... be their eyewitness ! Document the shows ! Be part of their history ! Send your scans to Craig (wireviews@yahoo.com)... you never know, some of these shots may end up in the reprint of Everybody Loves A History<< And even if not, I'll put most of them online, where they'll stay for future Wire fans... I have about 40MB of space free on the Wireviews account, so there's plenty of room for more scans. If people have a lot to send, then email me for another email address that can deal with larger attachments. Best Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.com News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:10:01 -0400 From: "Mrduul" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] souveniers - gig stuff I can't make any of the gigs, myself. But I told a freind in Austin to grab me a shirt, but now I'm concerned. Anyone have a scan of this shirt? Is this the only one being sold? And what color is it? - -frank ______________________ ))) DuuLMuSiK Compact Discs ((( prog - shoegaze - imports - krautrock psych - drone - dreampop - independents _____________________________________ "music to cool out with since 1995" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John M Campbell" To: "IdealCopy" Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 12:36 AM Subject: [idealcopy] souveniers - gig stuff > the El Rey show sold R&B2 and a nondescript T which, as a screenprinter, I'm > obliged to say was the only thing remotely disappointing about the gig. I > speak from a vast wealth of experience having printed the marvelous 'Dugga."." > ' shirt for the sadly missed Wire Mail Order. > ;-} ,johnc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:30:44 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] canadian immigrant seahorse much needed. Thanks Paul. Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Eardrumbuz@aol.com Sent: September 12, 2002 10:39 PM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] canadian immigrant seahorse In a message dated 9/12/02 5:17:33 PM, eklaver@elysium-sl.com writes: << My father came with nothing and worked hard to the point where he owns a house and a cottage with my mother, paid a significant amount of takes through his life and gave birth to me >> who cares what language you speak if you're a man who not only gives birth to a baby boy, but sees him grow up to become a wire fan!! sorry... i felt the need to lighten the current topic. peace and love to all, another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:30:38 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] R&B 2 LOL Thanks Andrew for a much needed injection of humour. Eric in Toronto /////////////////////////// ... yes? And? Are you trying to start a fight, then? Eh? Eh? Just wait a moment while I find a large building to hide behind.... *runs* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:30:43 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] R&B Poll Good suggestion Ari. My votes so far (as I have yet to purchase my copy of R&B2) Comet Germ Ship Agfers of Kodack Eric in Toronto (who can't wait for the show on Sunday) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:38:59 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] My Request Spot... Great to have you aboard Paul. An incredibly varied lot here with incredibly varied opinions. Lock up your hats and hang on for the ride. ///////////////////// A friend of mine bought it by mistake thinking it was some other band. The rest is history. ///////////////////// As Jung would say, there are no accidents. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:39:09 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Dan wrote..... Ari. Not your fault. This list is notorious for bringing out the best and worst in people (including myself). I don't know if Scott is so much a racist as being, as you astutely pointed out, immature. Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Ari Britt Sent: September 13, 2002 5:56 AM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] Dan wrote..... wow -- who knew? bart simpson has joined the list. personally, i'd havepreferred lisa, purely in hopes of having a better chance at moreintelligent remarks than the one below, but what the hell ...dan>WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd like to appologise to the group for introducing Scott to the list,in the 2 years I have known him thru the shriek site there was never a hint of racism,I have also lost his 'friendship' for telling him he needs to grow up.' hope none of you were too offended by his remarks.Ari Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:36:10 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Show Tommorrow Night.. Well....my crummy luck is alive and well...here's the situation...originally it looked as though i was going to miss the Wire show in Chicago on Saturday night..It seemed as though i was going to have to help a friend move in the middle of the night (long story).... but then everything turned around and i was going again! so i found a really great deal on a rental car and was all set to go! but alas, i have caught a NASTY summer cold and i feel miserable.... the thought of driving 5 hours by myself..then being trapped in a smoke filled room with a sore throat and massive congestion..is not very appealing.. BUT, it is WIRE..and i may never have the chance to see/hear them live again! what a dilemma...... sigh.... i only have a matter of hours to decide.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:53:15 EDT From: Superflyww9@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: [idealcopy] R&B Poll In a message dated 9/13/02 6:27:13 AM, eklaver@elysium-sl.com writes: << My votes so far (as I have yet to purchase my copy of R&B2) Comet Germ Ship Agfers of Kodack Eric in Toronto >> What about "Spent"? Thanks in advance, Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:02:17 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Show Tommorrow Night.. Robert, There is no choice. Get in that rent-a-wreck and DRIVE! Mark << i only have a matter of hours to decide.... >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:17:12 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Show Tommorrow Night.. On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 11:02:17AM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Robert, > > There is no choice. Get in that rent-a-wreck and DRIVE! But be careful out there: "dot dash, dipped flash, dot dash, don't crash..." Hope everyone going to the Chicago gig enjoys it. I'm already annoyed I'm missing the Brighton one. I'm sure Wire could sell out the Junction in Cambridge... - - Andrew - -- "Now, you can't change the way she feels, But you could put your arms around her..." - Massive Attack, "Protection" ('Protection') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:24:39 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R&B Poll Dammit, I don't want to play this game (I'm quite happy for Wire to decide what to serve up for me - it's a policy that has served me well for 15 years!). But I'm going to anyway ;-) The songs are farily short, so my guess is the finished album would have perhaps up to 14 songs... so if you're working from the point of four R&Bs of six tracks, you have to discard 10 tracks. So as we only have two R&Bs I'm going to lose five tracks from the two. So out go Comet, 1st Fast, Read&Burn, Raft Ants and Nice Streets Above. Opener HAS to be 99.9. It's so effective as a first track as it builds from nothing and then takes off. 'The road ahead...' lyrics work as an opener too. The two occasions I've seen 99.9 performed live have both been as first song... Also starting an album with a long track always works for me.... Then straight into I Don't Understand. As the spiritual descendent of Ally in Exile (always the second song in Wire's '79 set) that's the proper place for it. Somewhere on the first side (sorry, I can only construct imaginary albums in Vinyl terms!!) I'd have Germ Ship, and and end the side with Agfers. Side 2 (or track 8) would start with Spent, then followed by the as-yet unreleased Mr Marx's Table, followed by Trash/Treasure. The album would finish with..what else but The Art of Stopping. So it looks like this .... 1 99.9 2 I don't understand 3 4 5 Germ Ship 6 7 Agfers of Kodack 8 Spent 9 Mr Marx's Table 10 Trash/Treasure 11 12 13 14 In the art of stopping Fill in the gaps from R&B 3 and 4. Subject to change!!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:33:14 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My Request Spot... > As Jung would say, there are no accidents. But ,as the story goes, he didn't mean to put it quite like that. ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:40:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] souveniers - gig stuff - --- Mrduul wrote: > Anyone have a scan of this shirt? > Is this the only one being sold? And what color is it? At the Portland show, there were only 2 items for sale: R&B02 for 10 USD and the t-shirt for 12 USD. (Did someone say it was sold for 15 USD elsewhere?) The shirt is gotobed.... err, I mean gray. There is a blue horizontal bar across the upper chest. Across the bar it reads "IIIIIWIREIIIII". That's it! ===== Andrew Westmeyer anw7pima@yahoo.com Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:41:22 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Show Tommorrow Night.. Robert, My advice is to start sucking 60 lemons for an hour or two [never mind the effects that'll leave on your face] Good health and cheers! > what a dilemma...... > sigh.... > i only have a matter of hours to decide.... > Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:59:29 EDT From: HowardJSpencer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Ideal Copy In a message dated 13/9/02 9:31:16 am, owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org writes: << The first Wire I ever bought was The Ideal Copy. A friend of mine bought it by mistake thinking it was some other band. The rest is history. >> Welcome to the list Paul, and snap, Ideal Copy was my first Wire album too (though I knew about them - and more especially Dome - before that). Who did you friend think they were? Wiretrain? Don't know anything about Wiretrain but their stuff was always next in the racks. When I first heard Madman's Honey on the radio (which cause me to buy the LP) I thought it was New Order's new single (True faith must've been due out that week I think). This was on Annie Nightingale's radio one show (when radio one was still AM only). She was, relatively speaking, quite a champion of Wire. I know Wire aren't happy with NO comparisons. In many ways it *is* lazy - sequencers plus choppy guitars plus stringsynth equals NO. As a general rule, the fastest way to piss off a musician is to tell them, after they're played you their latest efforts, exactly who it sounds like. Or so I've found. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:07:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Ideal Copy << Who did you friend think they were? Wiretrain? Don't know anything about Wiretrain but their stuff was always next in the racks.<< I'd imagine they'd now be classified as alt.country... >>When I first heard Madman's Honey on the radio (which cause me to buy the LP) I thought it was New Order's new single (True faith must've been due out that week I think). This was on Annie Nightingale's radio one show (when radio one was still AM only). She was, relatively speaking, quite a champion of Wire.<< She was a massive fan. In fact she was at the New Cross Venue gig in 1986. How the fuck did I remember that?? >>I know Wire aren't happy with NO comparisons. In many ways it *is* lazy - - sequencers plus choppy guitars plus stringsynth equals NO. As a general rule, the fastest way to piss off a musician is to tell them, after they're played you their latest efforts, exactly who it sounds like. Or so I've found. >> Never, under any circumstances, mention to E G Lewis esq that the bass line of Ahead bears something of a resemblance to New Order's Temptation. Even though it does ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:07:09 -0700 (PDT) From: rayographique Subject: RE: [idealcopy] My Request Spot... Don't know about Jung, but John Cage would say that it was no accident. > ///////////////////// > > As Jung would say, there are no accidents. Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:15:28 +0200 From: "Glenn" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Show Tommorrow Night.. > But be careful out there: > > "dot dash, dipped flash, > dot dash, don't crash..." Excellent, Andrew. Chapeau. Glenn. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:31:40 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] The Guide to the World. hahahaha...while going through some old papers and magazines i came across a funny funny article in the February 1999 issue of VICE magazine.... The Vice Guide to the Whole World: America: white trash Europeans who were sick of being insulted so they crossed the atlantic ocean with a bunch of African slaves and started their own country. After they got big they beat the shit out everyone who ever made fun of them and then started on everyone else... the UK : racist colonalists who imposed their harsh separatist classism on every country they met. Then they started eating sausages and making kids work all day, which did really well for a long time until people smartend up. Now they have the Spice Girls and deep-fried Mars bars.. Holland/Netherlands: Really uptight and boring place with one crazy city called Amsterdam that everyone talks about so you won't mention South Africa. When the Dutch would take over an area they would point out that, unlike the locals, they were superior because they followed God, were sexually repressed and worked hard. They held on to slavery longer than any other nation in the world. France: Super old country where they have 8-hour long meals and thin their blood by drinking wine. As far a colonialism goes, they weren't really racist murderers. They just thought everyone in the world should talk about Voltaire with a Parisian accent and wear berets. It used to be the cultural center of the universe but now it's just racists and super-models Italy: Shaped like a boot and has a city in it called Rome that used own all of Europe until it burned down New Zealand: The British went there in 1800-and-something but instead of killing the locals everyone got decapitated by Maori Warriors. They worked out a reputable deal and everything went ok until they almost went bankrupt a few years ago. Now it's like the movie Brazil. Australia: Several hundred thousand British criminals got banished there in the 1800's, killed tons of "abbos" and became homosexual. Tasmania : An island filled with cartoon monsters that spin circles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:45:17 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Guide to the World. more India: poor brown people plugging away until the Brits came over and snapped everyone into shape using rifles. Gandhi refused to eat in 1931 because he wanted the British to leave. This worked out but everyone still plays cricket. Pakistan: Indian Muslims started their own country in 1947. It didn't work out that well, but everyone still plays cricket Nepal: Tibet owned it first but they went solo in the year 879. Now they look like their Mom's Chinese and their Dad's Indian Israel: A present to the Jewish people from Britain to make up for WWII except there was already people there. Iran: Used to be Persia, one of the oldest civilizations in the world (2700 years ago), and created pre-Christian religions like Manicheasim. They took over Egypt in the year 343, lost it and changed their name to Iran 2300 years later. In 1979, a hardcore Islamic guy named Ayatollah Khomeini became boss which made Ronald Reagan so mad he got Alzheimer's. Jordan/Syria/Iraq/Lebanon: Used to be a happy bunch of wandering nomadic tribes until Churchill got drunk and drew borders everywhere. Now everyone fights like hell (especially Syria which is stuck between Iraq and a hard place). Saudi Arabia/United Arab Emirates: Used to be dirt-poor travelers and camels covered in black goo. Then cars got popular and now they're the richest countries on earth. Egypt: Had their shit together back in 3,000 BC but when Jewish slaves took off everything fell apart. Now it's all bad drivers and Islamic terrorists ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:54:36 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Guide to the World. more Cuba: Opressed by a bunch of people until an Argentinian doctor and his fat friend liberated everyone. Now it's a struggling, comunist tourist resort that serves bad food and gets pissed on by America Jamaica: A place where people called Rastas get so stoned they walk around wearing a tea cozy for a hat, a baby blue Adidas shirt on top of a wool dress shirt, yellow polyester pants tucked into striped tube socks, and rubber boots Bahamas: Lots of rich black nerds and Canadian accountants with British accents Columbia/ Panama: Panama isn't a real country. Roosevelt wanted a separate country to surround the Panama Canal so he made Columbia give it up. Columbia got revenge by turning all the poor Americans into crackheads Bolivia: Farts in bed Paraguay: a crypto-nazi place that lunatics live in ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:03:01 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Guide to the World. more Greece: Ran the show for thousands of years but now it's just a big party place where fags go to rave. Germany: Really old place that rules Europe. After they realized it's easier to take over Europe economically than by killing millions of Jews they stopped building up their military, let their communist half back in and spent all the extra cash traveling around the world getting sunburnt and being annoying Poland: Everyone is drunk and depressed there. Turkey: They had a bunch of really powerful empires (Byzantine, Ottoman etc.) and is now considered the most progressive Muslim country where every single guy has a moustache. Norway/Sweden/Finland: Vikings came from here but now it's just drunk guys who make the same helmet using bananas and hollowed out watermelons. Greenland: Ironically, much colder than Iceland. Vikings used to stop there to try to warm up on their wayto North America but it didn't work. Today it's just natives eating raw meat in the middle and Danish settlers speckled along the coast waiting to be rescued. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:14:45 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My Request Spot... > I also could use some help if anyone knows where any copies of >The Third Day exist I would like to pick one up. I am a bit late on that >one. You might try your friendly, neighborhood http://www.posteverything.com website. They're listing it as deleted, but not sold out. There may be some copies left in stock. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:44:23 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] re:reply to robert Ok if you want to get into the situation in afghanistan take a look at this statement from the Revolutionary afghan women's association... it's a bit lengthy so if you're not interested, hit delete A - ---- RAWA Statement on the anniversary of the September 11 tragedy Fundamentalism is the Enemy of All Civilized Humanity RAWA joins with the rest of the civilized world in remembering the innocent lives lost on September 11th, as well as all those others lost to terrorism and oppression throughout the world. It is with great sadness that RAWA sees other people experiencing the pain that the women, children and men of Afghanistan have long suffered at the hands of fundamentalist terrorists. For ten long years the people of Afghanistan -Afghan women in particular- have been crushed and brutalized, first under the chains and atrocities of the "Northern Alliance" fundamentalists, then under those of the Taliban. During all this period, the governments of the Western powers were bent on finding ways to "work with" these criminals. These Western governments did not lose much sleep over the daily grind of abject misery our people were enduring under the domination of these terrorist bands. To them it did not matter so very much that human rights and democratic principles were being trampled on a daily basis in an inconceivable manner. What was important was to "work with" the religio-fascists to have Central Asian oil pipelines extended to accessible ports of shipment. Immediately after the September 11 tragedy American military might moved into action to punish its erstwhile hirelings. A captive, bleeding, devastated, hungry, pauperized, drought-stricken and ill-starred Afghanistan was bombed into oblivion by the most advanced and sophisticated weaponry ever created in human history. Innocent lives, many more than those who lost their lives in the September 11 atrocity, were taken. Even joyous wedding gatherings were not spared. The Taliban regime and its al-Qaeda support were toppled without any significant dent in their human combat resources. What was not done away with was the sinister shadow of terrorist threat over the whole world and its alter ego, fundamentalist terrorism. Neither opium cultivation nor warlordism have been eradicated in Afghanistan. There is neither peace nor stability in this tormented country, nor has there been any relief from the scourges of extreme pauperization, prostitution, and wanton plunder. Women feel much more insecure than in the past. The bitter fact that even the personal security of the President of the country cannot be maintained without recourse to foreign bodyguards and the recent terrorist acts in our country speak eloquent volumes about the chaotic and terrorist-ridden situation of the country. Why is it so? Why has the thunderous uproar in the aftermath of September 11 resulted in nothing? For the following reasons which RAWA has reiterated time and again: 1. For the people of Afghanistan, it is "out of the frying pan, into the fire". Instead of the Taliban terrorists, Jihadi terrorists of the "Northern Alliance" have been installed in power. The Jihadi and the Taliban fundamentalists share a common ideology; their differences are the usual differences between brethren-in-creed. 2. For the past more or less twenty years, Osama bin Laden has had Afghan fundamentalists on his payroll and has been paying their leaders considerable stipends. He and Mullah Omar, together with a band of followers equipped with the necessary communication resources, can live for many years under the protection of different fundamentalist bands in Afghanistan and Pakistan and continue to plot against the people of Afghanistan and the rest of humankind. 3. The Taliban and the al-Qaeda phenomena, as manifestations of an ideology and a political culture infesting an Islamic country, could only have been uprooted by a popular insurrection and the strengthening and coming to power of secular democratic forces. Such a purge cannot be effected solely with the physical elimination of the likes of Osama and Mullah Omar. The "Northern Alliance" can never sincerely want the total elimination of the Taliban and the al-Qaeda, as such elimination would mean the end of the raison d'jtre of the backing and support extended to them by foreign forces presently dominant in the country. This was the rationale behind RAWA's slogan for the overthrow of the Taliban and al-Qaeda through popular insurrection. Unfortunately, before such popular insurrection could come about, the Taliban and al-Qaeda forfeited their positions to the "brethren of the 'Northern Alliance'" without suffering any crippling decimation. With their second occupation of Kabul, the "Northern Alliance" thwarted any hopes for a radical, meaningful change. They are themselves now the source and root of insecurity, the disgraceful police atmosphere of the Loya Jirga, rampant terrorism, gagging of democracy, atrocious violations of human rights, mounting pauperization, prostitution and corruption, the flourishing of poppy cultivation, failure of beginning to reconstruct, and a host of further unlisted evils, too many to enumerate. Oppression and crimes against women are rife in different forms throughout the country. RAWA has always maintained that the fundamentalists' rabid hatred of women as equal human beings -be they fundamentalists of the Jihadi brand or of the Taliban one- is not due merely to their unhealthy upbringing or morbid mind frame, but emanates from their religio-fascistic ideological world outlook. As long as such an ideology exists, propped up by military forces available at its disposal, neither crazed misogyny nor a myriad of shameful social evils associated with it can be eradicated. This is not a problem that can be dealt with by the creation of a "Ministry of Women's Affairs" nor by the presence of a couple of token women in high government positions. To hope for the attainment of freedom, democracy and equality within the framework of a corrupt, religion-based, ethno-chauvinistic system is either self-delusion or hypocrisy -or both. We find no happiness in the fact that RAWA's predictions in regard to the consequences of the re-domination of the "Northern Alliance" have once again been borne out. Those who claimed that the "Northern Alliance" were better than, and therefore preferable to, the Taliban must wake up and apologise to our people for their noxious sermons. The establishment of democracy and social justice can be possible only with the overthrow of fundamentalist domination as a prime precondition. This cannot be achieved without an organised and irreconcilable campaign of the women masses against fundamentalism, its agents and apologists. Some politically bankrupt entities who have no shame in grovelling to the "Northern Alliance" in the hope of securing positions and feathering their nests, label RAWA as "Maoist" and "radical" because of our decisive and irreconcilable stances and viewpoints. But does the current situation in the country prove the fallacy of RAWA's positions or do they give a slap in the face to the ladies and gentleman with the penchant for being colluding and mealy-mouthed? The assassinations of a vice president and a cabinet minister and the ban on investigating these murders, the discovery of mass graves, the banning of women singers and artists and showing of dancing on TV, the censorship of the media, arbitrary fatwas of kofr and apostasy against women, gang rapes of even expatriate women working for international NGOs, the disgusting campaign of making an idol out of Ahmad Shah Masoud, are these not enough to bring home the realisation that indulgence and permissiveness towards rabid dogs only serve to make them more ferocious? RAWA's experience in fighting fundamentalism, particularly during the past 10 years, motivates us to be all the more persistent in our attempts to mobilise women even in the most remote corners of our country. At the same time, we shall not desist from pursuing an irreconcilable policy towards fundamentalism and standing in solidarity with all pro-democracy forces. We staunchly believe that in addition to causing the tragic deaths of over 3,000 innocent Americans and non-Americans and the sorrow and bereavement of tens of thousands more, the monstrous terrorist attack of September 11 showed the world what a nefarious pestilence fundamentalism is; it showed the world the sort of inferno the peoples of Afghanistan, Iran, Algeria, Sudan and other such countries live in. Fundamentalism is the mortal enemy of civilised humanity; to address it demands the consolidated action of all freedom-loving nations of the world. The present "world anti-terrorism coalition" has been debased by innumerable ambiguities and impurities of purpose, motivation and objectives. The contradictions between world powers will spell its doom. Therefore, it behoves anti-fundamentalist individuals and organisations working for social justice the world over to draw together without hesitation to contain and ultimately stamp out, once and for all, the vermin of fundamentalism, so that the tragedy of September 11 will never be repeated, neither in America nor anywhere else. RAWA takes pride in the fact that up till now we have been able to establish contact with a considerable number of anti-terrorist organisations on all five continents and enjoy their moral and material support. However, for the purpose of waging a swifter and more encompassing fight against terrorism, it is necessary for such solidarity to be expanded and strengthened. In this connection we shake the hands of all freedom-loving individuals and organisations. We would like to avail ourselves of this opportunity to once again extend our heartfelt condolences to all those who lost their loved ones in the savage calamity of September 11, as well as to the friends and families of those innocent compatriots -for all we know, anti-Taliban and anti-"Northern Alliance"- who were blown to shreds by American aerial bombardment. We sincerely hope that a vast number of those who are bereaved and grieving for their loved ones will, sooner or later, join the ranks of the legions mobilising against fundamentalist fascism in their respective countries and on an international level. No to Al-Qaeda, No to the Taliban, No to the "Northern Alliance"! Long Live a Free, Democratic and Blossoming Afghanistan! Victory in the Decisive War to the Very End of Afghan Women Against Fundamentalism and for Democracy! Long Live International Solidarity Against Fundamentalist Terrorism! Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) September 11, 2002 - ----- >> ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:01:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] read & burn 02 Keith wrote As for R&B's though...well I agree with the reader (Keith K I think) wh* said that most albums are too bloody long nowadays, but that's down to bands being unable to maintain a certain standard over 60-70 minutes. >> Listen to Wilco's Being There,then say that<< But the two R&B's together (40 mins or so) wouldn't be a problem at all as far as I'm concerned... >Just goes to show how different we all are,I always feel cheated when I get a c'd that's under 50 mins,I mean,there's enough room for 80 minutes and who wouldn't want 80 minutes of some artist/group that they're REALLY in to ,Frank Zappa used to limit his L.P's(remember those guys?) to 40 minutes so he could do the Bass lines credit (bass needs wider grooves= less time on one side) but those daze are over. Gimme more! (I'll get me slimming pills) Ari n.p. nothing,not a sausage,not a bloody note,silence,just the Locusts at the pond making what sound like chiruping noises by rappidly flapping their wings 20 yards from my window. Ari(on yet another hot North Carolina night) Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 02:57:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: Big Takeover 51 taking shape! Last Burning Embers to play with Gene! Springhouse is back and will open for Chameleons! New Even Worse web site! jack rabid wrote:Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 00:50:38 -0400 Subject: Big Takeover 51 taking shape! Last Burning Embers to play with Gene! Springhouse is back and will open for Chameleons! New Even Worse web site! From: "jack rabid" To: jrabid@bigtakeover.com LAST BURNING EMBERS to open for London stars GENE this Tuesday in New York!; Free BIG TAKEOVER party this Monday!; SPRINGHOUSE to reunite for first gigs in eight years, opening four gigs by Manchester legends THE CHAMELEONS; JACK RABID9s old NY punk rock band EVEN WORSE debut new web site at Evenworse.com and release 26-song 1981-1982 retrospective, 3You9ve Ruined Everything2; BIG TAKEOVER Issue 51 taking shape for fall release: BIG TAKEOVER milestone issue 50 in stores now! Hello Big Takeover readers and LBE, Springhouse, and Even Worse fans. Lots going on here, again! Whew! So much! - ----------- LAST BURNING EMBERS TO OPEN FOR LONDON STARS GENE THIS TUESDAY IN NEW YORK!; First, LAST BURNING EMBERS (members: DAVE BUROKAS, TOM BURKE, JACK RABID), still happy after the fun of serving as TV Smith9s (Adverts) backing band for two NY gigs in July, is extremely proud to announce that they will be supporting GENEone of Jack9s favorite bands and longtime Big Takeover staplesthis TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17 at New York9s BOWERY BALLROOM. The Bowery Ballroom, New York9s best live venue for music, is in Manhattan at 6 Delancey St., half a block East of Bowery. (212 533-2111). The concert is an 18-and-over event, so bring your I.D. if look younger than that! Gene, who have often drawn favorable comparisons to The Smiths, Jam, early Who, Marvin Gaye, and the original Motown label acts, are touring the U.S. supporting their new fourth LP, 3Libertine.2 Said Paul Connolly of The London Times (and we agree), 3Libertine9 is not the sound of a band trying to recapture old glories or a tired last-ditch attempt for commercial paydirt. It9s a vibrant, sparkling album that forges ahead looking for new territories to conquer.2 Advance tickets may be advised due to Gene9s lasting following around here, and tickets are available for face value at the Mercury Lounge box office 12-6 daily (217 E. Houston St. near Essex St., 212 260-4700) or on the web/phone at www.ticketweb.com (866 468-7619). Doors are at 7, and LBE is scheduled for 8; Note that the announced second band on the bill, MATTHEW, will no longer be appearing, as one of the members apparently was struck by appendicitis, so they have had to cancel their support slot on the Gene tour aside from Chicago. That means there9s a chance that LBE will play a little later, right before Gene. We9ll let you know if that happens! [As usual, you can get a copy there of LBE9s debut CD EP, issued on our own Reg Dunlop Recordings, 3DISTRESS CALL2 b/w 3Comfort in Misery2 and 3Cafe Radical2for sale at the gig along with their new t-shirts sold on the band9s web site at WWW.LASTBURNINGEMBERS.COM. You can also order the EP with a credit card at the brand new Big Takeover secure store at WWW.BIGTAKEOVER.COM. (For those who don9t surf any nets, the CD can also be ordered for $5 plus $1 postage, or the XL or L t-shirt for $10 plus $3.20 postage, from the Big Takeover address, 249 Eldridge St., New York, NY, 10002, USA. We accept well concealed cash or checks made out to Jack Rabid.) To hear MP3 samples of all the songs on the new EP, they9re found on our web site at www.lastburningembers.com.] [For more info on Gene, see www.gene.co.uk: Also, here9s some MORE OF GENE9S REMAINING TOUR DATES for those not in the New York area: Friday, September 13, Detroit, MI The Shelter; Saturday, September 14, Toronto, ON Lee's Palace; Monday, September 16, Washington, DC 9:30 Club; Wednesday, September 18, Hoboken, NJ Maxwells; Thursday, September 19, Cambridge, MA T.T. Bears; Friday, September 20, Philadelphia, PA North Star] - ------------------------------ FREE BIG TAKEOVER PARTY THIS MONDAY! In celebration of our recent milestone issue 50, our old Big Takeover pal BELVY K is kindly throwing our magazine a party to mark the occasion at BROOKLYN club LUXX this MONDAY SEPTEMBER 16. It9s part of his popular weekly Monday series 3Crashin9 In: Brit Pop / New Wave/ Indie.2 Admission is free, and Belvy promises a slew of the sort of music you read about each issue in Big Takeover, from Gene to Ash to much older punk-era favorites, all played on the giant club speakers for those who want to dance or just come and chat and sip. The Luxx Club is located at 256 Grand St. in Williamsburg just across the East River from Manhattan, between Driggs and Roebling, and info can be had at 718 599-1000. The club opens early and stays that way late, so come one, come all. - --------------------------------- SPRINGHOUSE TO REUNITE FOR FIRST GIGS IN EIGHT YEARS, OPENING FOUR GIGS BY MANCHESTER LEGENDS THE CHAMELEONS! Yes, it9s true, SPRINGHOUSE (MITCH FRIEDLAND, LARRY HEINEMANN, JACK RABID) will be playing their first gigs in eight years, supporting one of their favorite all-time bands, THE CHAMELEONS (or 3Chameleons U.K.2, as they used to be known here), at four of their upcoming East Coast tour shows. Hurrah! Springhouse has lately been in the process of recording a third LP off and on as time allows from their ultra-busy livesand will throw in a smattering of new songs into these four shows, yes!but have not played live since 1994. [Note: for this occasion, the band will invite Jack9s LAST BURNING EMBERS bandmate and old Springhouse fan DAVE BUROKAS to sit in on second guitar for a few of the shows, and he9ll be playing some bass too.] The New York trio formed in 1988 and released two LPs (19919s 3Land Falls2 and 19939s 3Postcards From the Arctic2) and one EP (19929s 3Eskimo2) for the Caroline label (and a 1990 debut 1990 72 single on Bob Mould9s Singles Only Label, 3Menagerie Keeper2). They also toured the U.S. four times on the strength of strong alternative radio play and MTV9s airing of their 3Layers2 video twice on 3120 Minutes2 (and press like Rolling Stone9s 3New Faces2). The group sadly called it a day after a series of bad breaks (like a nasty van break-in in San Diego that crippled them financially), but went out via an emotional farewell show in October 1993 at New York9s Limelight, as Larry concentrated, as he has to this day, on touring and recording with the wildly successful BLUE MAN GROUP. But, a testament to the strong friendship all three have always had, to this day, Springhouse briefly came out of retirement a mere eight months later to play four dates on the 3Mark Burgess & the Sons of God U.S. tour in June 1994which was half The Chameleons, Burgess and drummer John Lever, and three others, playing mostly Chameleons materialincluding dates in D.C., NY, and Boston. So it9s somewhat symbolic, and rather exciting, that all four Chameleons (the others: guitarists REG SMITHIES and DAVE FIELDING) are coming over this time, under their rightful name, to tour the U.S.their first non-California American dates in 17 yearsand Springhouse will once again come out of retirement to open four of them! 3I9m pinching myself, obviously,2 says Jack, who has run interviews with Chameleons in five of his Big Takeover 50 issues to date, and who feels so strongly about the English group being 3one of the best of all time,2 that he flew all the way to Manchester three years ago to witness the band9s first comeback concerts since 1987. THE FOUR DATES THAT SPRINGHOUSE AND CHAMELEONS WILL TEAM UP ARE AS FOLLOWS: WE STRONGLY ADVISE BUYING ADVANCE TICKETS FOR ANY OR ALL OF THESE SHOWS YOU WISH TO ATTEND, AS THEY ARE HIGHLY LIKELY TO SELL OUT!!!! TUESDAY, OCTOBER 1, WASHINGTON D.C., BLACK CAT. (1811 14th St., NW, Corner of S, 202 667-4490) Tickets are available at the club box office or via ticketmaster. Doors are at 8:30 and there is a third band opening the show, OUT CIRCUIT (ex-FROTUS, SHOUTBUS, and TELEPHONE MELTS), who go on at 8: 30. Springhouse will follow at 9:30, and Chameleons at 10:30 WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 2, NEW YORK, NY, KNITTING FACTORY (74 Leonard St., between Broadway and Church, 5 blocks South of Canal, 212 219-3006. Note, There are two Chameleons shows this evening: an acoustic show at 8PM that will NOT include Springhouse, and an electric show at 11PM that WILL include Springhouse. You can go to one or both... chose COMBO for both. Tickets are available at the club box office or via http://www.virtuous.com/search/events_venue.php?venueid=KF074&offset=24. For more info: www.knittingfactory.com FRIDAY, OCTOBER 4, PARK SLOPE, BROOKLYN, NY, SOUTHPAW (125 Fifth Ave., 718 230-0236). Doors are at 8 and Springhouse goes on shortly thereafter. Advance tickets are available at www.ticketweb.com. For more info: www.spsounds.com SATURDAY, OCTOBER 5, HOBOKEN, NJ, MAXWELLS (1039 Washington St. at 11th, 201 653-1703) This show is probably around 9. Note: ticketmaster has sold out their allotment of tickets for this special show, but last we heard there were still some left at Hoboken CD store Tunes on Washington Street. For more info: www.maxwellsnj.com [For those who can9t make any of these four shows, there are plenty of other opportunities to see Chameleons elsewhere in the U.S. (For more info on Chameleons, see WWW.THECHAMELEONS.COM.) Here9s the rest of the dates: September 28th Atlanta, Echo Lounge; September 29 Atlanta, Echo Lounge (semi acoustic); October 6 Cambridge, MA, Middle East Cafe; October 7 Montreal, Club Soda; October 8, Montreal, Club Soda; October 9 Toronto, Phoenix; October 12 Buffalo, The Continental; October 13 Rochester, Water Street Music Hall; October 14 Chicago, Metro; October 15 Seattle, The Showbox; October 16 San Francisco, Great American Music Hall (semi-acoustic); October 18 San Francisco, Great American Music Hall; October 20 Santa Ana, CA, Galaxy; October 21 & 22 L.A., The Knitting Factory; October 23 San Diego, Canes; October 24 Long Beach, CA Que Sera (semi acoustic)] [For more info on Springhouse or their four shows with Chameleons, contact Jack Rabid at this email address, or you can look at http://txe.swa.com/springhouse/] - ------------- 20 YEARS LATER, 1981-1982 NY PUNK BAND EVEN WORSE DEBUTS FIRST EVER EVEN WORSE WEB SITE AT WWW.EVENWORSE.COM AND ISSUES RETROSPECTIVE LP, 3YOU9VE RUINED EVERYTHING2 AND !!!!! As we9ve noted, Big Takeover editor Jack Rabid has stated that his greatest musical regret was that the old, original-era-punk rock band Even Worse he was a member of split up in March of 1982, before it could release the LP it had just recorded then, he and his former bandmates R.B. KORBET (vocals), BOBBY WEEKS (guitar) and ERIC KEIL (bass) have finally released that very 13-song LP, nearly-exactly two decades laternow fleshed out to a full-scale retrospective with the inclusion of Jack9s long and detailed liner notes, R.B.9s painstaking layout of the 16-page booklet (including dozens of flyers, photos, and artifacts contributed by all four from the dusty boxes in their attics/storage/beds!), and the bonus inclusion of a complete concert right from the board at New York9s legendary Max9s Kansas City club, August 27, 1981. The resulting 26-track CD is entitled 3YOU9VE RUINED EVERYTHING2 and is released on well-established L.A. punk label GRAND THEFT AUDIO. (For those interested in getting a copy, Big Takeover is now selling copies at the SPECIAL SALE PRICE OF $10!, via our web site online-store. Go to: http://store.yahoo.com/bigtakeover/evenworse.html) AND EVEN WORSE IS PROUD TO ANNOUNCE THE UNVEILING OF THEIR NEW WEB SITE at WWW.EVENWORSE.COM For more info on the group, including pictures from their first gigs in 20 years as part of the 320th Anniversary of the New York Thrash2 two-night stand at CBGB in June (with KRAUT, THE MOB, ADRENALIN O.D., FALSE PROPHETS, and NIHILISTICS), see evenworse.com!!!! And tell us that Rebecca didn9t do an amazing job designing this new site! - ------------- ISSUE 51 OF BIG TAKEOVER NOW TAKING SHAPE FOR RELEASE IN THE FALL: We9ve now glad to report that we9re all working in earnest on BIG TAKEOVER ISSUE 51, due this Fall. As we mentioned last time, we have snared PAUL WESTERBERG for a cover feature! It was a great 35 minutes chatting about old memories with our old acquaintance (we even gave him a copy of issue 16 with our former Replacements cover in 1984!!!!), who also sat for some great photos with our very own cover shooter Jason Homa, as you9ll all see soon. If you haven9t renewed your subscription yet, this is a great time to do it at our secure online store at www.bigtakeover.com. Here9s the roster of scheduled interviews for the issue so far, in addition to Westerberg: Wire, Flaming Lips, Nuggets stars Barry & the Remains, Midnight Oil, Kim Salmon of The Scientists, Promise Ring, Piebald, Interpol, Saddle Creek Records, Superdrag, Pere Ubu, Savage Republic returns, Swevedriver9s Adam Franklin, Hot Snakes, , Ken Stringfellow (solo and Posies), Sleater-Kinney, Hot Hot Heat, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Mary Timony (ex-Helium), Jim O9Rourke, Warlocks, 16 Horsepower, TV Smith of The Adverts, Gillian Welch, Sarah Shannon (ex-Velocity Girl), Mission of Burma part two, Social Distortion9s Mike Ness, part two, Mike Watt part two, Australia9s Citadel Records, producer Brad Jones, and more. Should be another 300-page blockbuster! [for more info: www.bigtakeover.com] - ------------------- MILESTONE ISSUE 50 OF BIG TAKEOVER OUT Once again, we hope you9ve all found a copy of that milestone issue 50 of The Big Takeover by now by now and that you are greatly enjoying it! All subscribers should have their copies by now, so let us hear from you if your copy never arrived. If for some reason you haven9t subscribed, you can always order it straight from us by sending a check for $5 ($20 for a 4-issue, two-year subscription) to Jack Rabid/The Big Takeover/249 Eldridge St. #14, New York, NY 10002-1345. Or if you want to use a credit card, again you can always order via our web site at the brand new Big Takeover secure online store at www.bigtakeover.com. Any comments we9d be glad to hear. Again, if you want to know what9s in the current issue 50, here's the roster of interviews: Social Distortion9s Mike Ness (cover), Mission of Burma, The Breeders9 Kim Deal, Ash, Super Furry Animals, The Damned, Pt. 2, Radio Birdman, Pt. 2, Saves the Day, The Shins, Elbow, The Church, Rebecca Gates, Sigur Rss, Spiritualized, James Williamson (The Stooges), Mike Watt, Slaughter & the Dogs, Mike Azerrad, Brian Jonestown Massacre, Soundtrack of Our Lives, Pinback, Divine Comedy, Stephen Duffy ( Lilac Time), The Good Life, The Monarchs (ex-Hoodoo Gurus & Glide), The Lassie Foundation, Youth Brigade/BYO 20th Ann., Dillinger Four, The Sights, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, the O Brother LP, and The State of Indie Labels & Distribution. 300 pages! [more info: www.bigtakeover.com] - ------- In any case, thanks so much for the interest and support, and if you're in the area, hope to see you on Monday and/or Tuesday night. Regards Jack Rabid and Last Burning Embers, Springhouse, and Even Worse Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #309 *******************************