From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #307 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, September 12 2002 Volume 05 : Number 307 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] old wire review... [Alistair Tear ] [idealcopy] Miles response [Ari Britt ] RE: [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? ["Eric Klaver" ] RE: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert ["Eric Klaver" ] RE: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2 ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2 ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2 [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 [Ari Britt Subject: RE: [idealcopy] old wire review... Hi rob wire @ chicago metro streaming video here http://www.supersphere.com/Club/NoisePop/ you feeling a bit sensitive today? ;-] A > -----Original Message----- > From: RLynn9@aol.com [mailto:RLynn9@aol.com] > Sent: 11 September 2002 18:22 > To: keith.astbury10@virgin.net; idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] old wire review... > > > In a message dated 9/11/02 7:09:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > > << _Pink Flag_, _Chairs Missing_ and _154_, '80s material > from _The Ideal > Copy_ and _A Bell is A Cup_ and a new song ("He Knows") >> > > > forgive my momentary bout of amnesia (my mind has been going > blank a lot > recently)...but has this track (He Knows) appeared on any > Wire recordings > yet? and please be kind in answering......thank you, > Robert > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 05:40:15 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] New Order back to mine Tim, > >>New Order are releasing one of those 'Back to Mine' DJ mix things of their > favourite tracks. > Quite an interesting line-up of tunes, mix all these up and you've got New > Order it seems.<< I reckon that's a B sumner selection. If Hooky had been involved it would have had six Iggy tracks. The rest would have been Black Sabbath. > >>Wonder what Wire's selection would be?<< > > Colin - Beatles, Floyd, Hawkwind > Graham - Krautrock, Roxy, Motown > Bruce - The Blues, The Hoover > Rob - The Wurzels > > Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:14:40 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? << "whether we like it or not, in times like this, you HAVE to back the home team", and I do. << No you don't. Your "home team" is out of step with the world. >>I didnt vote for George W and I sure don't agree with his republican asswipe bullshit, but I still stand behind the country I live in, >> That's more than he's doing. If Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld prosecute a "war" against Iraq along the lines they suggest, I'd get 10,000 body bags ready. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:32:33 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] st arkansas >there's a few...indeed, one of our own IC-ers Syharzhuk runs/ran >one(sorry if my spellings off)... I used to, it was called TheBailingMen - but decided to close it in favor of a much more active Pere Ubu Foundation (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pereubufoundation) >the official site is (i think) www.ubuprojex.com...or something like >that... You wish :) It's http://www.projex.demon.co.uk and I typed this from memory! >good luck and GO AND SEE HIM...!!! Oh, and September is a wonderful month here inBoston. We're gonna have Wire, Mekons, Pere Ubu, Girls Against Boys, Impotent Sea Snakes (the name alone!) in Mid.East Club, Spoon in TTTheBears (Melt Banana and Peaches there in October - and I don't care much for Buffalo Tom, J Mascis, John Wesley Harding or Bob Mould, but they all are coming too). And this is just two clubs on one block in Cambridge! :) Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:57:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] st arkansas << TTTheBears >> This is one of the few US clubs I've seen bands in. Glad it's still going - a really nice venue... I saw The Lyres and the Downsiders there in 1987, while on holiday. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:01:51 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert In a message dated 9/11/02 5:28:50 PM Central Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << Gentlemen, Attempting to rationalise history by hindsight is, in my opinion, a dangerous game. And very, very wrong. I guess a certain amount of spleen-venting is understandable in the circumstances, though I'd prefer it if Idealcopy was somewhere I could get away from blanket media coverage of the events of November 9th.... Mark >> You are right Mark...point well taken....I apologize for my outburst..IC is not the place....i let my anger get the best of me.... Take care all, Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:07:08 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] I know what I saw last night Last night I was at my friends and they had that "Emmanuelle" movie from 1973 or so. My question is - there is a really nice free jazz theme played in the scene when Emmanuelle is taken by two Thai guys - anyone knows what it is? Judging by what I found on the web it's probably called "Rape Sequence" by Pierre Bachelet, but the question is - does he have more tracks like that and where can one get his CDs? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:10:09 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: I know what I saw last night And right after I hit the "send" button I found this: http://et.stok.co.uk/digests/197.html where they talk about a scene cut from Emmanuelle because it made use of nothing else but Lark's Tongues In Aspic!!! Any closet KC fans (and I know you're out there) can shed some light? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:16:06 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: I know what I saw last night << a scene cut from Emmanuelle because it made use of nothing else but Lark's Tongues In Aspic!!! Any closet KC fans (and I know you're out there) can shed some light? >> As prog is probably the least 'sexy' music ever made, they were probably right to cut it!!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:38:41 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? umm ... count me out. oh, yeah -- dunno if anyone here has been been paying any attention to developments in the realm of theology (i certainly haven't), but apparently antonin scalia now = god. when my day assistant editor, knowing full well how i refuse to accept that illegal-abortion-on-a-minor-before-roe-v.-wade-obtaining coke freak as president (not that it would really matter *who's* president, of course, but you'd think they'd go to the trouble of coming up with a better charade or something), called me over to the tv wed morning to watch bush mouth some monosyllabic drivel at the 9/11 crash site in pennsylvania, i went into my usual spiel about how the last *president* bush hasn't been in office in some 8 1/2 years, & how the last *elected* president was from one county over from the one i grew up in. which got the passing administrative assistant's dander up, & when i replied that scalia (apparently a cast member of the sopranos -- i've never watched that show & don't keep up with organized crime, either) appointed the man president, she haughtily replied that *god* appointed him president. wow -- here we are back in the days of the divine right of kings. dan >Alot of what you said I do agree with, but in the words of my father, >"whether we like it or not, in times like this, you HAVE to back the home >team", and I do. I didnt vote for George W and I sure don't agree with his >republican asswipe bullshit, but I still stand behind the country I live >in, cause frankly, I really dont think any other place on the earth would >be that much better, just different. I read an article recently written by >a Tampa Bay newspaper reporter that stated (paraphrasing) "we are losing >our own culture adapting to the rest of the world's." I totally agree with >that as much as I live and breathe. I an't go into a business in Atlanta >and know for sure that the person serving me is going to understand a word >I say. I am constantly bombarded with masssive culture attack in my own >backyard and I am really sick and tired of feeling like a monority and an >outsider in my own country. There are certain aspects of my life that make >me a minority, but I don't feel! > like I should be remined of it every f***ing time I go grocery shopping >or get gas or stop at Mcdonald's for an egg-mcmuffin or have to be told >WHERE I can vote in our elections or what should or shouldnt be said in our >Pledge of Allegiance or what God I should believe in or because I'm single >and dont have 2.3 children and dog and a house with a 2 car garage that I >am not "worth the effort." What ever happenned to letting the people run >the country? I say let the leaders duke it out in a ring and see who kicks >who's ass then. And who gave the United States the power to run the entire >world (off on a tangent)? why dont we worry about our own backyard instead >of every one in the world's. There ARE 364 other days of the year where >people are doing wonderful things for each other, not because they have to >or because they have an obligation to, but because they WANT to, because it >SHOULD be human nature to WANT to. Americans, Afghans, Asians......God >dammit, we are all people, ! >human beings and if we dont watch our step (humans, NOT Ameri! >cans) there isnt going to be much of a future for anyone on the planet. >Lets fuck up the atmosphere, steal from our neighbors, kill, murder, >embezzel, lie, because what's the difference? Why does it take a war, YEAH >this is a f***ing war, to make us all see we're ALL acting like asses, not >just the leaders. I wonder how the man in Seattle felt when, because he was >wearing a turban, was escorted off an airplane because he made the rest of >the passengers uneasy? GIve pilots guns? Shit, we can't even get them to >stop drinking, and now we should give them guns? Why not just give all the >passengers guns? All of this evident (and some it totally absurd), I still >stand behind the home team. >(I hope this hasnt given anyone the wrong impression of me--Ari/Jaime, you >know me too well--but I had to reply to this an get what's been troubling >me all day out and see how others feel.) >---expecting (but hoping not to get) sever tongue lashings from my soap-box now> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:55:27 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? Scott - There's a huge, huge disconnect between the first part of your message... >Alot of what you said I do agree with, but in the words of my father, >"whether we like it or not, in times like this, you HAVE to back the home >team", and I do. I didnt vote for George W and I sure don't agree with his >republican asswipe bullshit, but I still stand behind the country I live >in, cause frankly, I really dont think any other place on the earth would >be that much better, just different. I read an article recently written by >a Tampa Bay newspaper reporter that stated (paraphrasing) "we are losing >our own culture adapting to the rest of the world's." I totally agree with >that as much as I live and breathe. I an't go into a business in Atlanta >and know for sure that the person serving me is going to understand a word >I say. I am constantly bombarded with masssive culture attack in my own >backyard and I am really sick and tired of feeling like a monority and an >outsider in my own country. There are certain aspects of my life that make >me a minority, but I don't feel! > like I should be remined of it every f***ing time I go grocery shopping >or get gas or stop at Mcdonald's for an egg-mcmuffin ... compared to here, where you stop on a dime and start to sound like a rational human being again. >or have to be told >WHERE I can vote in our elections or what should or shouldnt be said in our >Pledge of Allegiance or what God I should believe in or because I'm single >and dont have 2.3 children and dog and a house with a 2 car garage that I >am not "worth the effort." What ever happenned to letting the people run >the country? I say let the leaders duke it out in a ring and see who kicks >who's ass then. And who gave the United States the power to run the entire >world (off on a tangent)? why dont we worry about our own backyard instead >of every one in the world's. There ARE 364 other days of the year where >people are doing wonderful things for each other, not because they have to >or because they have an obligation to, but because they WANT to, because it >SHOULD be human nature to WANT to. Americans, Afghans, Asians......God >dammit, we are all people, ! While I'm getting too old to be surprised at the capacity of human beings to hold entirely contradictory positions, a lot of what US leaders perpetuate relies on you being more concerned with the first half of your message to act on what you say you believe in the second half. Is your "home team" the Bushies, or humanity? As the just-trashed-on-idealcopy Bruce Springsteen said at '84-'85 concerts before playing "Born in the U.S.A.," "blind faith will get you killed." I've lived in the most international part of Nashville (yes, we do have an international community!) for more than six years after living in two of the three whitest, most "prestigious" areas of town (the Vandy area and Green Hills), and I feel far more happy and connected with the community here than I ever did anywhere else. I don't feel culture-attacked but culture-*enriched.* Personally, given the lucidity of the second half of your message, I'm hopeful that next time you see a Pakistani or Korean face behind the counter of an Atlanta 7-11, you'll think more about what you have in common with him or her, and live up to the "we are all people" ideals you put forth after that borderline xenophobe rant. Does all this belong on idealcopy? Probably not. But I'm not going to let words like "culture attack" stand unchallenged, lest others here think they stand in for other U.S. idealcopyists' views. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:49:47 -0700 (PDT) From: SSSSSSS Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dan bailey wrote:umm ... count me out. oh, yeah -- dunno if anyone here has been been paying any attention to developments in the realm of theology (i certainly haven't), but apparently antonin scalia now = god. when my day assistant editor, knowing full well how i refuse to accept that illegal-abortion-on-a-minor-before-roe-v.-wade-obtaining coke freak as president (not that it would really matter *who's* president, of course, but you'd think they'd go to the trouble of coming up with a better charade or something), called me over to the tv wed morning to watch bush mouth some monosyllabic drivel at the 9/11 crash site in pennsylvania, i went into my usual spiel about how the last *president* bush hasn't been in office in some 8 1/2 years, & how the last *elected* president was from one county over from the one i grew up in. which got the passing administrative assistant's dander up, & when i replied that scalia (apparently a cast member of the sopranos -- i've never watched that show & don't keep up with organized crime, either) appointed the man president, she haughtily replied that *god* appointed him president. wow -- here we are back in the days of the divine right of kings. dan >Alot of what you said I do agree with, but in the words of my father, >"whether we like it or not, in times like this, you HAVE to back the home >team", and I do. I didnt vote for George W and I sure don't agree with his >republican asswipe bullshit, but I still stand behind the country I live >in, cause frankly, I really dont think any other place on the earth would >be that much better, just different. I read an article recently written by >a Tampa Bay newspaper reporter that stated (paraphrasing) "we are losing >our own culture adapting to the rest of the world's." I totally agree with >that as much as I live and breathe. I an't go into a business in Atlanta >and know for sure that the person serving me is going to understand a word >I say. I am constantly bombarded with masssive culture attack in my own >backyard and I am really sick and tired of feeling like a monority and an >outsider in my own country. There are certain aspects of my life that make >me a minority, but I don't feel! > like I should be remined of it every f***ing time I go grocery shopping >or get gas or stop at Mcdonald's for an egg-mcmuffin or have to be told >WHERE I can vote in our elections or what should or shouldnt be said in our >Pledge of Allegiance or what God I should believe in or because I'm single >and dont have 2.3 children and dog and a house with a 2 car garage that I >am not "worth the effort." What ever happenned to letting the people run >the country? I say let the leaders duke it out in a ring and see who kicks >who's ass then. And who gave the United States the power to run the entire >world (off on a tangent)? why dont we worry about our own backyard instead >of every one in the world's. There ARE 364 other days of the year where >people are doing wonderful things for each other, not because they have to >or because they have an obligation to, but because they WANT to, because it >SHOULD be human nature to WANT to. Americans, Afghans, Asians......God >dammit, we are all people, ! >human beings and if we dont watch our step (humans, NOT Ameri! >cans) there isnt going to be much of a future for anyone on the planet. >Lets fuck up the atmosphere, steal from our neighbors, kill, murder, >embezzel, lie, because what's the difference? Why does it take a war, YEAH >this is a f***ing war, to make us all see we're ALL acting like asses, not >just the leaders. I wonder how the man in Seattle felt when, because he was >wearing a turban, was escorted off an airplane because he made the rest of >the passengers uneasy? GIve pilots guns? Shit, we can't even get them to >stop drinking, and now we should give them guns? Why not just give all the >passengers guns? All of this evident (and some it totally absurd), I still >stand behind the home team. >(I hope this hasnt given anyone the wrong impression of me--Ari/Jaime, you >know me too well--but I had to reply to this an get what's been troubling >me all day out and see how others feel.) >---expecting (but hoping not to get) sever tongue lashings >from my soap-box now> "It is a rare man who won't tamper with perfection." - Carl Marsh vIsIt Me @ http://atlringz.tripod.com/ Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:00:05 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: Portland show review From a recent subscriber... >From: CBSteelman@aol.com >Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 13:04:59 EDT >Subject: Re: knock knock >To: outdoorminer@mindspring.com >X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10622 > >But, if you could post this Portland show review, I'd appreciate it. > > >Portland show >There were perhaps 500 people attending. Sad to see, given 1500 available >tickets. Bumped into a guy from Seattle in the beverage queue who saw the >previous night's show. His only complaint about it was that he didn't get >Drilled. > >R&B 01&02 made up the main performance section. No surprise >there. Spent, Comet and In the Art of Stopping went over pretty >well. The band seemed to be all business- not much joking, conversation, >smiling and the like. The acoustics of the Crystal Ballroom were such >that standing about 40 feet away from the stage gave a good integrated >sound. But, I remember thinking that I couldn't wait to get 02 home and >hear it on the stereo, so I could hear the production details that are >difficult to communicate in a live setting. > >The encore included a machinelike rendition of Lowdown. The use of >buzzsaw guitars helped connect that old song with the new material. The >gentleman from Seattle then got his wish- 3 to 4 minutes of an >instrumental that sounded vaguely familiar, and then climaxed with the >question that occasionally answers itself, "Could this be a drill?". > > >Chris > > >. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:39:25 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Noorda > The Read and Burn 2 did also reach the Netherlands. >Sound reminds me a little of > the Chrome. Jan I thought so too - it was Nice Streets Above that struck me. I also previously mentioned this regarding R+B1 (certain guitar sounds). Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:07:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Miles response Miles wrote: But I'm not going to let words like "culture attack" stand unchallenged, lest others here think they stand in for other U.S. idealcopyists' views. later, Miles Right on Miles,in an off the list email to John c I stated that I LOVE the ethnic diversity of these here united states for it strengthens us and enriches the Arts,however I do draw the line when a Moslem Lady in Florida was granted permission to not have her face on her driving licence because it was offensive to her,this is bending over backward too far,as for Scotts remarks I think he somewhere ran away with his emotions,he tends to get very threatened when talk of war is in the air.I have known him for a coupla years on the shriek site and happen to know many of his friends are not of his ethnicity,these are emotional times,for my own part I change my mind or contradict myself depending which hat I'm wearing,for at times i too get emotional when thinking of those that died 9-11. take care.Ari Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:17:33 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? I am sorry, but I can't sit this one out: Scott said: Alot of what you said I do agree with, but in the words of my father, "whether we like it or not, in times like this, you HAVE to back the home team", and I do. ////////////////////////////////////////// No, you don't have to back "The Team." That would be buying into the propaganda and furthering the cause of bad foreign policy; Foreign policy that includes support for and execution of terrorism (by your congress' own definition) against many countries around the world. You stand to lose a whole lot more by "backing The Team" than by speaking out against the corrupt policies of the Bush government. - -I read an article recently written by a Tampa Bay newspaper reporter that stated (paraphrasing) "we are losing our own culture adapting to the rest of the world's." I totally agree ...What ever happenned to letting the people run the country? //////////////////////////////// So much in that preceding paragraph it's hard to deal with. First, my father was one of those "can't speak the language" people when he arrived in Canada. Many people had the same attitude toward him as you have for the minimum wager (would you prefer they get welfare?) serving you your fast food breakfast. My father came with nothing and worked hard to the point where he owns a house and a cottage with my mother, paid a significant amount of takes through his life and gave birth to me, a home owning, tax paying individual who went to University, is now nearly a professional, and who owns his own successful business. And what if he went packing after 2 years in Canada? What if he never came? ////////////////////////////////// - -I say let the leaders duke it out in a ring and see who kicks who's ass then. ////////////////////////////////// That would be one way. The other way would be to do what Nicaragua did and take the USA to court over alleged terrorist actions. The USA lost and, in fact, stepped up efforts under the Reagan administration, but that was because Nicaragua had no chance of having the decision enforced (Israel and the US vetoed the resolution in the UN). The US has every opportunity to take that course of action in issues of terrorism and enforce the ruling. ///////////////////////////////////////// - -And who gave the United States the power to run the entire world (off on a tangent)? why dont we worry about our own backyard instead of every one in the world's. ///////////////////////////////////// Good question. Are you going to get softwood lumber, oil, natural gas, and hydroelectric power from your own backyard? ////////////////////////////////////// - -I wonder how the man in Seattle felt when, because he was wearing a turban, was escorted off an airplane because he made the rest of the passengers uneasy? ////////////////////////////////////// I wonder how the gas station attendant feels about your opinion on his language skills. ///////////////////////////////////////// All of this evident (and some it totally absurd), I still stand behind the home team. ///////////////////////////////////////// Then expect nothing to change. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:18:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert RLynn9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/11/02 5:03:20 PM Central Daylight Time, luvjazzz@yahoo.com writes: << The thing about the Taliban and Al Qowarda is they hate everyone that isn't Moslem 'per se',Remember Robert when we freed Afghanistan the people were DANCING IN THE STREETS and not without cause. >> if the "freedom" of Afghanistan was sooooo important to the US Government then why didn't we go in and overthrow the Taliban before the attacks on the WTC.."We" didn't care about the people of Afghanistan before that...As a matter of fact, we are largely responsible for their oppression...we helped the Taliban gain power...remember Afghanistan vs. Russia ? RL Indeed we were,and the Afghans hated the Russians,and I don't think for one moment that the U.S had any idea of what was about to happen once the russians were kicked out,(I hope not anyway)as for 'we didn't care about the Afghani people before that',I'm sure Bill Clinton did,but he kept his nose out of other peoples business,isn't that what you sed we SHOULD do(and I agree with you) see how complex politics can be?glad I'm not President.take care.Ari Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:35:19 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert Ari posited: I don't think for one moment that the U.S had any idea of what was about to happen once the russians were kicked out,(I hope not anyway) ////////////////// I don't know about that. Take your best guess at this: You train and arm a bunch of fanatical drug dealing warlords to provide resistance in a country where, after the enemy withdraws, there is nothing left of what little political infrastructure existed before the conflict. All that is left in a political vacuum are the well armed, well trained drug dealing warlords. Please fill in the scenario after that. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:41:30 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert At 05:35 PM 9/12/2002 -0400, Eric Klaver wrote: >Ari posited: >I don't think for one moment that the U.S had any idea of what was about to >happen once the russians were kicked out,(I hope not anyway) >////////////////// > >I don't know about that. Take your best guess at this: > >You train and arm a bunch of fanatical drug dealing warlords to provide >resistance in a country where, after the enemy withdraws, there is nothing >left of what little political infrastructure existed before the conflict. >All that is left in a political vacuum are the well armed, well trained drug >dealing warlords. Please fill in the scenario after that. And to go back to the beginning of the USSR-Afghan conflict, the hawkish forces that came to dominate the later Carter Administration, like Zbigniew Brzezinski, had their choice of which anti-USSR groups to back. They deliberately chose the Islamists over the more secular factions, in the hopes that the predominantly Islamic Soviet republics of Central Asia would join the cause of their co-religionists in Afghanistan and rise against their masters in Moscow. Ah, the unintended consequences of the Cold War... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:03:00 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2 Got my copy of R&B today. LOVE it! > > packaging it as a fifty-minute album, rather than two EPs, would > > work against the strengths of the music, I feel. And I thought I was the IC Kylie Pop Tart here. If you couldn't stand 50 minutes of R&B stuff, then you're a bloody lightweight IMO! Keith NP...Well let's guess eh! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:10:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 > >Indeed. On one of his digital radio slots Colin said the idea of the > >R&Bs was to be slightly 'underground' - and after a while the best > bits>from 3 or 4 6-trackers would be released as an album. You can see where this is leading, can't you. Arguments here over what tracks should be included on the final album. Not sure Colin should be encouraging us really ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:01:42 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2 On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 01:03:00AM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > Got my copy of R&B today. LOVE it! > > > > packaging it as a fifty-minute album, rather than two EPs, would > > > work against the strengths of the music, I feel. > > And I thought I was the IC Kylie Pop Tart here. If you couldn't stand 50 > minutes of R&B stuff, then you're a bloody lightweight IMO! > ... yes? And? Are you trying to start a fight, then? Eh? Eh? Just wait a moment while I find a large building to hide behind.... *runs* (Seriously, I find the R+Bs very intense: there's a few records I find genuinely difficult to listen to for emotional reasons, and it's not in *that* sort of way: I just find them very high-energy and I can't always cope with that.) If you want to sum up my taste in music, I'm a mid-90s indie-kid who diversified a little. Hope everyone's OK with that :). I also *do* have problems with nerves/anxiety etc, which might be why I found the above about the R+B series. - - Andrew - -- "I'm not that mediaeval, sometimes I write my thoughts down, I can never remember who I am..." - - Idlewild, "Everyone Says You're So Fragile" ('Hope is Important') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:29:04 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2 > > > > packaging it as a fifty-minute album, rather than two EPs, would > > > > work against the strengths of the music, I feel. > > > > And I thought I was the IC Kylie Pop Tart here. If you couldn't stand 50 > > minutes of R&B stuff, then you're a bloody lightweight IMO! > > > Are you trying to start a fight, then? Eh? Eh? > *runs* It's OK. At my age I'd never catch you ; ) > (Seriously, I find the R+Bs very intense: there's a few records I find > genuinely difficult to listen to for emotional reasons, and it's not > in *that* sort of way: I just find them very high-energy and I can't always > cope with that.) It doesn't affect me in that way. I actually find it a bit of a thrill. Sure there are some records that can be difficult to listen to for all sorts of reasons. This is usually more to do with specific memories than the music itself though (I still can't hear The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me by Gladys Knight & The Pips without being reminded of a bereavement in 1975 for example). As for R&B's though...well I agree with the reader (Keith K I think) who said that most albums are too bloody long nowadays, but that's down to bands being unable to maintain a certain standard over 60-70 minutes. But the two R&B's together (40 mins or so) wouldn't be a problem at all as far as I'm concerned... > If you want to sum up my taste in music, I'm a mid-90s indie-kid who > diversified a little. Hope everyone's OK with that :). Talking of which...according to the this weeks NME, Coxon has left Blur... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:31:44 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2 On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 01:29:04AM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > > > If you want to sum up my taste in music, I'm a mid-90s indie-kid who > > diversified a little. Hope everyone's OK with that :). > > Talking of which...according to the this weeks NME, Coxon has left Blur... > And there goes my reason for listening to their new stuff with it. Yes, I am a guitarist fanboy, and I do play guitar ... though not nearly as well as I'd like. (Yeah, I know, it doesn't matter if you're technically competent or not if you're imaginative and talented in other ways, but sadly I don't think I really am. :/ ) - - Andrew - -- "I call, and I collect; (So just strike him softly, away from the body..." - - Blur, "Trouble in the Message Centre" ('Parklife') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:40:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 Keith Astbury wrote: > >Indeed. On one of his digital radio slots Colin said the idea of the > >R&Bs was to be slightly 'underground' - and after a while the best > bits>from 3 or 4 6-trackers would be released as an album. You can see where this is leading, can't you. Arguments here over what tracks should be included on the final album. Not sure Colin should be encouraging us really ; ) Keith Then Miles should 'organise' a poll and all of us should vote on which ones to leave out rather than which ones to include,the info would then be passed on to le boyz,who could then blame us in the liner notes for 'what you hold in your hand' sorta thingy.whaddya say Miles? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:20:53 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] liars play lyres-was Re: st arkansas In a message dated 9/12/02 9:58:22 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << I saw The Lyres >> this just reminded me a funny (not really) thing i heard on the radio a couple weeks ago. one of the local college stations, either new york university or stonybrook (i think the latter) played a song by the liars. when the song ended he stated (and now as i'm typing this i'm pretty certain it was stonybrook) "that was a song by the liars, the newer band, not to be confused with the other band the lyres who didn't spell the name correctly" hehe, i was going to call the station and ask the dj if he attended the college or just worked at the radio station, but i got sidetracked and never did. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:38:46 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] canadian immigrant seahorse In a message dated 9/12/02 5:17:33 PM, eklaver@elysium-sl.com writes: << My father came with nothing and worked hard to the point where he owns a house and a cottage with my mother, paid a significant amount of takes through his life and gave birth to me >> who cares what language you speak if you're a man who not only gives birth to a baby boy, but sees him grow up to become a wire fan!! sorry... i felt the need to lighten the current topic. peace and love to all, another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:46:24 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] gig stuff Besides the mentioned R&B2 being available at the shows, what else (CDs, t-shirts, posters, etc.) will be there? Just thinking ahead if I need make a stash run to the car! Thanks, voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:47:12 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? wow -- who knew? bart simpson has joined the list. personally, i'd have preferred lisa, purely in hopes of having a better chance at more intelligent remarks than the one below, but what the hell ... dan >WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > dan bailey wrote:umm ... count me out. > >oh, yeah -- dunno if anyone here has been been paying any attention to >developments in the >realm of theology (i certainly haven't), but apparently antonin scalia now = >god. when my day assistant editor, knowing full well how i refuse to accept >that >illegal-abortion-on-a-minor-before-roe-v.-wade-obtaining coke freak as >president (not that it >would really matter *who's* president, of course, but you'd think they'd go >to the trouble of coming up with a better charade or something), called me >over to the tv wed morning to watch bush mouth some monosyllabic drivel at >the 9/11 crash site in >pennsylvania, i went into my usual spiel about how the last *president* bush >hasn't been in office in some 8 1/2 years, & how the last *elected* >president >was from one county over from the one i grew up in. which got the passing >administrative >assistant's dander up, & when i replied that scalia (apparently a cast >member of the sopranos -- i've never watched that show & don't keep up with >organized crime, either) appointed the man president, she haughtily replied >that >*god* appointed him president. wow -- here we are back in the days of the >divine right of kings. > >dan > > > > >>Alot of what you said I do agree with, but in the words of my father, >>"whether we like it or not, in times like this, you HAVE to back the home >>team", and I do. I didnt vote for George W and I sure don't agree with his >>republican asswipe bullshit, but I still stand behind the country I live >>in, cause frankly, I really dont think any other place on the earth would >>be that much better, just different. I read an article recently written by >>a Tampa Bay newspaper reporter that stated (paraphrasing) "we are losing >>our own culture adapting to the rest of the world's." I totally agree with >>that as much as I live and breathe. I an't go into a business in Atlanta >>and know for sure that the person serving me is going to understand a word >>I say. I am constantly bombarded with masssive culture attack in my own >>backyard and I am really sick and tired of feeling like a monority and an >>outsider in my own country. There are certain aspects of my life that make >>me a minority, but I don't feel! >> like I should be remined of it every f***ing time I go grocery shopping >>or get gas or stop at Mcdonald's for an egg-mcmuffin or have to be told >>WHERE I can vote in our elections or what should or shouldnt be said in our >>Pledge of Allegiance or what God I should believe in or because I'm single >>and dont have 2.3 children and dog and a house with a 2 car garage that I >>am not "worth the effort." What ever happenned to letting the people run >>the country? I say let the leaders duke it out in a ring and see who kicks >>who's ass then. And who gave the United States the power to run the entire >>world (off on a tangent)? why dont we worry about our own backyard instead >>of every one in the world's. There ARE 364 other days of the year where >>people are doing wonderful things for each other, not because they have to >>or because they have an obligation to, but because they WANT to, because it >>SHOULD be human nature to WANT to. Americans, Afghans, Asians......God >>dammit, we are all people, ! >>human beings and if we dont watch our step (humans, NOT Ameri! >>cans) there isnt going to be much of a future for anyone on the planet. >>Lets fuck up the atmosphere, steal from our neighbors, kill, murder, >>embezzel, lie, because what's the difference? Why does it take a war, YEAH >>this is a f***ing war, to make us all see we're ALL acting like asses, not >>just the leaders. I wonder how the man in Seattle felt when, because he was >>wearing a turban, was escorted off an airplane because he made the rest of >>the passengers uneasy? GIve pilots guns? Shit, we can't even get them to >>stop drinking, and now we should give them guns? Why not just give all the >>passengers guns? All of this evident (and some it totally absurd), I still >>stand behind the home team. >>(I hope this hasnt given anyone the wrong impression of me--Ari/Jaime, you >>know me too well--but I had to reply to this an get what's been troubling >>me all day out and see how others feel.) >>---expecting (but hoping not to get) sever tongue lashings >from my soap-box now> > > >"It is a rare man who won't tamper with perfection." - Carl Marsh > >vIsIt Me @ http://atlringz.tripod.com/ >Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #307 *******************************