From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #305 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, September 11 2002 Volume 05 : Number 305 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Wire in Seattle - Sept. 10th ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] [idealcopy] Hey Jaime!.... [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] colin interview ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] old wire review... ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] colin interview [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] colin interview [Andrew Westmeyer ] Re: [idealcopy] old wire review... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] colin interview ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] colin interview [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] colin interview py 3.9 [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Colin interview...... [Superflyww9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Colin interview...... [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] Reply to Robert [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] uh..... ["John M Campbell" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] Hey Jaime!..../Hi Scott [Ari Britt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:42:57 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire in Seattle - Sept. 10th Hi everyone, Okay - I really should be sleeping instead of typing this, but I just got home from the Seattle show. In a word - awesome! (This will be extremely brief. I'll post more after I've slept. (^_^)) The two opening acts, Hint Hint, and the Hot Hot Heat were just right. Hint Hint were good shouty rock and the Hot Hot Heat were more pop rock, with the lead singer's voice pitched somewhere between Robert Smith of the Cure, and Pete Shelley of the Buzzcocks. Wire hit the stage, and blew the roof off the place. Graham did have a blown amplifier head for the 1st two songs, but all was fixed by the 3rd tune, and they never looked back. Here's the set list. Note - I wrote these songs down on the back of an envelope. I'm pretty sure about it - I didn't grab a set list - I had a wall poster and didn't want to appear greedy. (^_^) 1. 99.9 2. Germ Ship 3. (That new song - not on R&B 01 or 02 - Mr Marx's Table, maybe?) 4. 1st Fast 5. Read & Burn 6. Agfers of Kodack 7. Comet 8. The Art Of Stopping 9. Spent 10. I Don't Understand 1st Encore 1. Advantage In Height 2. Lowdown 2nd Encore 1. Pink Flag Afterwards, the all the members of Wire broke their gear down, and chatted with us fans. Very friendly post show atmosphere. The Showbox staff didn't chase us out like they usually do - that was great too. Finally, before I forget, Colin had a message for you guys. (^_^) He just wanted to let the list know that the band that opened for Wire in Denver was not The Standard. It was some "F*#&ing awful punk band". (That's what I wrote down on the envelope, anyway (^_^) ). Colin said The Standard were "really good" (wrote that down on the envelope, too), and would be opening for them in Portland. Cheers, Paul P.S. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ****************************************************** Brain: Pinky, Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering? Pinky: Umm, I think so, Brain, but what if the chicken won't wear the nylons? Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com ****************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:44:53 EDT From: HowardJSpencer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 In a message dated 11/9/02 2:12:35 am, owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org writes: << I think that's the point - my nerves would get frazzled by it - and as such packaging it as a fifty-minute album, rather than two EPs, would work against the strengths of the music, I feel >> agree totally. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:24:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2.3 Bart van Damme wrote: >> and now I'm all positively fucked up! >> Bart 8-D > > Bart old chap,we all already knew that,in fact another another another the > Keith has started a secret fund for you............... Thnx guys, when can I start making withdrawals then? :-P Soon as she's had enough!!!!!!!(you asked for that one Bart)Ari Bart PS There is another the Another the Another the Keith?? Scary!! Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:32:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Hey Jaime!.... .........don't be shy.Ari Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:06:36 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] colin interview Enjoyed that interview. WIRE: www.freewilliamsburg.com Maybe doesn't quite match Ringo's 'Turned left at Greenland' when asked how he'd found America, but some good one-liners all the same... AL: What do you think of Graham Lewis' solo stuff? Colin: You can't ask people in group's what they think of their co-members solo work! AL: Could you comment on some more obscure WIRE tracks like "Harry Houdini," "Stepping Off Too Quick," "Oh No Not So (save the bullet)," or "It's the Motive?" Colin: They are obscure. If they were any good they'd be less so... AL: What qualities do you like about music? Colin: I can't believe anyone would ask such a question! Excellent... Keith NP Elbow - Any Day Now ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:18:09 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] old wire review... found this rather good review from a couple of yrs ago when i was googling...apologies if you've seen it before. CONCERT REVIEW: Wire at Irving Plaza, New York City - - Wilson Neate All right, here it is . . . again . . . the return of Wire nearly quarter of a century after their inception and 12 years after their last US gig. While Finnish electro noodlers Pan sonic did their best to hold the audience's attention, they offered only a minor distraction from the more pressing concern on most people's minds: namely, could Wire still be the fly in the ointment or would Wire 2000 be a load of kidney bingos? It's a worrying question given the many circa '76-'77 acts who've become the very dinosaurs against which they once railed, wheeling out aged, zimmer-frame punk and playing gigs that often consist of 40-something blokes with beer bellies playing to 30-something blokes with beer bellies, stage-diving and pogoing. In other words, one of the deeper circles of rock hell -- an evening of sad pantomime nostalgia in pursuit of a past authenticity delivered by has-beens and never-weres, long deprived of the context in which they might have been relevant for a fleeting moment. But last night, as the first layers of sound coalesced gloriously into 1977's "Pink Flag," we were reminded of what we already knew. To ask if Wire are still relevant misses the point. Wire's relevance has never had anything to do with a context exterior to them as they've always constructed their own context and have routinely reinvented it. Wire have constantly rewritten the rules of the game -- live and on record -- often defying comparison. Even to measure Wire in terms of how authentic they sound compared to one of their previous incarnations is a red herring. They were never authentic and have never kept it real, opting instead to be the ideal copy and to emphasize a performed identity and an ironic distance. Although they were never fully part of the punk scene, they were the consummate punk band. By mid '77, punk's fleeting creativity and spontaneity had stagnated into homogeneity and caricature, yet Wire's "40 Versions" of themselves would offer a postmodern antidote to the fixed identity that punk quickly assumed. With their first album in 1977, Wire were already offering a metacommentary on the scene, pushing songwriting and performance in new directions with a degree of humor, experimentation and unpredictability that, while allegedly central to the punk ethos, was sorely lacking from most of their peers in anything but posture and pose. Wire prefer the path of most resistance, especially live. Infamous for choosing to play unrecorded, new tracks in place of "the hits" -- sometimes in an almost confrontational fashion, as evidenced on the _Document and Eyewitness_ CD -- they often managed to out-punk audiences who wanted to hear familiar material. In view of their modus operandi, it might seem unthinkable then, not only that the original four members of Wire have come together once more but also that they're touring and playing old material in a "proper" concert format. But of course, in the Wire scheme of things it makes perfect sense, given that it's so unexpected. As drummer Robert Gotobed explained recently, "For Wire, this is radical." In an hour-long set featuring tracks from the '77-'79 albums _Pink Flag_, _Chairs Missing_ and _154_, '80s material from _The Ideal Copy_ and _A Bell is A Cup_ and a new song ("He Knows"), Wire didn't falter for an instant. Just four blokes grafting away on a bare stage, with basic lighting, no-frills instrumentation and no special effects, they managed to generate and maintain a compelling level of intensity and energy. With his trademark sneering delivery fixed somewhere between irony and sarcasm, Colin Newman took care of lead vocal duties as well as one half of the guitar onslaught. The other half was provided by Bruce Gilbert, who stood characteristically motionless for the duration, focused on the job at hand and proving that -- while he might look like your high school geography teacher -- he's undoubtedly the hippest 55-year-old punk around. Although Graham Lewis took a back seat vocally, occasionally joining with Newman on choruses, his bass sounded fuller than ever. But the star of the evening was drummer Gotobed. Eyes closed and hammering away on the sparsest of kits with the insistence and consistency of a human metronome, he didn't miss a beat. From the older material through mid-period fare like "Advantage in Height," "Silk Skin Paws" and "The Boiling Boy" and even on the new track, his performance proved that he has always brought a crucial dimension to Wire. It's ironic that the man who made himself redundant in 1990 on the verge of the band's fuller exploration of computer technology should now return as the pivotal member. Despite their metamorphoses over the years, last night's gig foregrounded the common denominators of their sound that have remained recognizable: namely, an inimitable ability to craft unique, textured songs out of the juxtaposition and layering of minimal, individual elements and a lyrical repertoire that comes and goes between the twin -- often overlapping -- poles of snapshot observation and surreal abstraction. Among the highlights were a chunkier rendering -- thanks to Lewis's bass -- of their paean to postmodern identity, "40 Versions," and "Mercy," a track that somehow brings together the shipping forecast and cross-dressing. "Mercy" was particularly impressive as Wire edged it through its menacing build up, put it through its varying paces and rhythms and finally pushed it onto its crashing climax. Punk's two initial challenges with regard to duration and speed -- "How short?" and "How fast?" -- were revisited with blistering renderings of "Another the Letter" and the inevitable "12XU," which provided the respective answers, "still under a minute" and "faster than Fear." The taut, pared-down funk of "Lowdown" witnessed the hitherto unthinkable prospect of a Wire sing-a-long (of sorts) as a smiling Newman briefly yielded to the audience. During the performance of "12XU," Wire's ludic side openly declared itself in full-on comedy as Newman engaged in a deliberately camp rendition of what appeared to be a snake dance. With Robert Poss of the Band of Susans adding to the guitar arsenal, Wire came back for an encore, a 10-minute version of "Drill." Last night's rendition was rough and raucous, shot through with feedback and shorn of almost all its lyrics. It was the ideal coda. "Drill" is a track whose myriad incarnations have stood as the perfect embodiment of Wire's own trajectory of continuities and discontinuities. Ultimately, last night's mutation of "Drill" underscored the point made by the gig as a whole -- that Wire continue to reinvent themselves in ways that demand our attention. - --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:13:35 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R&B 2.3 >> Thnx guys, when can I start making withdrawals then? :-P > Soon as she's had enough!!!!!!!(you asked for that one Bart)Ari You dirty dirty old man Ari! ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:31:11 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 01:06:36PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > NP Elbow - Any Day Now I *love* this track. One of the (mainstream) singles of last year for me. (In fact, the whole album's good, and they're decent live too. I saw them at the Junction in Cambridge. Quote from Guy Garvey, onstage, the week the US started bombing Afghanistan: "So how was your Sunday? *jeers* Thanks, mine wasn't too bad actually: watched EastEnders, went to the pub, war broke out..." - - Andrew - -- "This machine will not, will not communicate, These thoughts, and the strain I am under..." - - Radiohead, 'Street Spirit (Fade Out)' ("The Bends") adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:57:20 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Some New Pop Records >>It was Plateau Phase I was referring to! (I meant the music was Unsightly and Serene in equal measures). I can't say which specific tracks it is, its just how I feel when I listen to them.<< For me, it's a really superb album - one of the best that Factory ever released. It's superbly sequenced and works very well on its original vinyl format, where the two sides are very much complete works in themselves. CA were very Wire-like in their approach to playing live. They rarely played old material, and tended to turn over their entire set in a few months. In effect, Plateau Phase is their '154' - there are a good two albums' worth of decent stuff from 79-80 that has never seen the light of day. I saw them play a wonderful set at the Millstone in Manchester in early 81, of which only two or three songs (the ones on the Peel session) were ever heard again. > > You going to see them on 26/10? > > Maybe. Whats the new stuff like?<< Scissorgun is denser and harder than Plateau Phase. More of a wall of sound, and very much guitar-driven. A lot of the Plateau Phase stuff simply doesn't have bass lines, or guitar parts, depending on who was playing the synth. Considering that only one Crispy (tha bassist) had remained in music after the 80s (guitarist & drummer hadn't played a note for 10 years) it's extraordinary. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:20:17 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #304 >Alexander > >WIRE: www.freewilliamsburg.com And he has an interview with Colin: http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/september_2002/wire.html Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:21:47 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] old wire review... In a message dated 9/11/02 7:09:44 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << _Pink Flag_, _Chairs Missing_ and _154_, '80s material from _The Ideal Copy_ and _A Bell is A Cup_ and a new song ("He Knows") >> forgive my momentary bout of amnesia (my mind has been going blank a lot recently)...but has this track (He Knows) appeared on any Wire recordings yet? and please be kind in answering......thank you, Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:27:46 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview In a message dated 9/11/02 7:00:48 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << AL: Could you comment on some more obscure WIRE tracks like "Harry Houdini," "Stepping Off Too Quick," "Oh No Not So (save the bullet)," or "It's the Motive?" Colin: They are obscure. If they were any good they'd be less so... >> Stepping off Too Quick i know of...the other three i do not...unless they are on Behind the Curtain......anyone know? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:34:13 -0700 From: "Uri Baran" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview They're all on Behind the Curtain except Harry houdini the only version of which I am aware of was played at the Bloomsbury Theatre 1985. Uri - -----Original Message----- From: RLynn9@aol.com To: keith.astbury10@virgin.net ; idealcopy@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview >In a message dated 9/11/02 7:00:48 AM Central Daylight Time, >keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > ><< AL: Could you comment on some more obscure WIRE tracks like "Harry >Houdini," > "Stepping Off Too Quick," "Oh No Not So (save the bullet)," or "It's the > Motive?" > > Colin: They are obscure. If they were any good they'd be less so... > > >> > > >Stepping off Too Quick i know of...the other three i do not...unless they are >on Behind the Curtain......anyone know? > >Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:39:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > << AL: Could you comment on some more obscure WIRE tracks like > "Harry Houdini," > "Stepping Off Too Quick," "Oh No Not So (save the bullet)," or "It's > the Motive?" ... > Stepping off Too Quick i know of...the other three i do not...unless > they are on Behind the Curtain......anyone know? They are all on BTC, except Harry Houdini, which was never released. Supposedly it was too "pop". (To quote one insider...) It was performed a handful of times in the late 80's. ===== Andrew Westmeyer anw7pima@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:46:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] old wire review... << orgive my momentary bout of amnesia (my mind has been going blank a lot recently)...but has this track (He Knows) appeared on any Wire recordings yet? and please be kind in answering......thank you, >> Nope. Don't expect it to either, unless they decide to issue another 'archive' recording of either the Garage gigs or the Albini sessions. Certainly not while they're reading and burining. I quite liked He knows... (He knows what I'm thinking, to give it its full title). But it wouldn't fit the current style, so I guess it's dead. If you haven't heard it, it's on that streaming video of the Chicago Metro 2000 gig that is still available on the net somewhere. Don't know the URL though. Suggest you search on Google. Kind enough for ya? Pay attention, Lynn!! Keep up with the list. You will be tested every week from now on. That better?? Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:57:05 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview > > NP Elbow - Any Day Now > Andrew said... > I *love* this track. One of the (mainstream) singles of last year for me. Yeah. One of my fave 45's of last yr too. Loved that EP so much that when the album came out I was disappointed...Coming to terms with it now though! Keith NP Primal Scream - Evil Heat (Haha. You lot thought you'd talked me out of it, didn't you! The Krautrock-ish Autobahn 66 sounds really good on 1st listen. Come on folks, get past the greasy lead singer!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:52:40 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] old wire review... In a message dated 9/11/02 12:47:22 PM Central Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << Pay attention, Lynn!! Keep up with the list. You will be tested every week from now on. That better?? Mark ;-) >> YES SIR! MAY I HAVE ANOTHER, SIR?! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:55:49 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview << They're all on Behind the Curtain except Harry houdini the only version of which I am aware of was played at the Bloomsbury Theatre 1985. >> It was played at Oxford MOMA too, and the Crown & Castle in Dalston. Not sure it survived beyond 85. It's very poppy, a bit like Des Simmonds' The Gymnast. Would have fitted quite well on Not To...one suspects it may have been a Colin song that was knocking around and was needed to flesh the set out for the 85 comeback... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:46:44 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] White Stripes This is excellent! > http://www.rathergood.com/punk_kittens/ > > Jack is pregnant with paws and we have certificates to prove it! > > Cracked Machine > Highly Irregular Cyberzine > http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:12:58 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] st arkansas >is there a pere ubu list or something http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pereubufoundation Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:14:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Colin interview...... Excellent interview Alexandra,congrats.Ari Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:07:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview RLynn9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/11/02 7:00:48 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << AL: Could you comment on some more obscure WIRE tracks like "Harry Houdini," "Stepping Off Too Quick," "Oh No Not So (save the bullet)," or "It's the Motive?" Colin: They are obscure. If they were any good they'd be less so... >> Stepping off Too Quick i know of...the other three i do not...unless they are on Behind the Curtain......anyone know? Robert NOT TO confuse,they ain't on 'curtain'.Ari - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:09:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview py 3.9 SO THEY ARE!!!(I'll get me glasses)Ari Andrew Westmeyer wrote:--- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > << AL: Could you comment on some more obscure WIRE tracks like > "Harry Houdini," > "Stepping Off Too Quick," "Oh No Not So (save the bullet)," or "It's > the Motive?" ... > Stepping off Too Quick i know of...the other three i do not...unless > they are on Behind the Curtain......anyone know? They are all on BTC, except Harry Houdini, which was never released. Supposedly it was too "pop". (To quote one insider...) It was performed a handful of times in the late 80's. ===== Andrew Westmeyer anw7pima@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:45:20 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] 9-11? what about the other 364 days? I can't take much more....i have been seeing and hearing a bunch of "patriotic" crap ALL day long.....Yes, the 3,000 deaths on 9-11 ARE a terrible loss..BUT what about the other 364 days a year that violence is perpetrated the world over? and YES, AMERIKKKA is indeed responsible for a large share of it.(either directly, indirectly, or secretly)...As an Amerikkkan it amazes me how willfully blind and IGNORANT most of us are....If this country is so goddamned "free" and "democratic" then why the hell aren't we allowed to vote whether we want to go to war with Iraq? It would only take one day..just like the presidental election (and maybe even Florida wouldn't fuck this up). Why is it up to our filthy president and congress to decide if we kill people? That bastard is just using this proposed "war" with Iraq to redraw the map of the middle-east for our own greedy interests in oil AND to draw attention away from the fact that he can't bring Osama Bin Laden to justice...what a fucking joke....Funny how we use the excuse that: "we must attack Iraq to keep Saddam Hussein from using weapons of mass destruction ! " Why didn't we do that to big bad Russia? I'll tell you why; because we only pick on and bully people that we think we can beat easily...but maybe we should have learned our lesson in Viet Nam....i'm sick of all the "greatest nation in the world" talk..Amerikkkans can't get it through their thick skulls that NOBODY asked or appointed us to police the world...We decided that we should be the police because we think we are better than everyone else..and the WORLD hates us for that...most countries do not want our military presence on their soil...When will we wise up and get the hell out of most of these countries? As a so-called super-power we should help bring peace to the world but otherwise stay the hell out of everyone's business..All we do is make it worse, due to our own greedy interests...This day is making me ill...with all the stupid, faux-sentimental and insincere bullshit...in typical Amerikkkan $$$$$$ fashion every frigging radio and television station is using this day to sell something....another reason the world hates us...it's always about the almighty $$$$$$$ ..no matter how insensitive and in bad taste and no matter who we have to trample to get it...i am also sick (and furious) of the way the media (and amerikkkans in general) portray all muslims, palestinians, arabs, and middle-eastern people in general to be "evil" i am so fucking sick of that word; "EVIL"....PEOPLE the world over WANT basically the same things: safety for their families..a place to LIVE...to be FREE...to have HUMAN RIGHTS. Some do drastic things to achieve those ends..we should not hold entire races, creeds, or religions responsible for that....otherwise, we should hate and condemn all Germans...or the Italians..or the Greeks..or the British ...or better yet, we should hate ourselves here in Amerikkka for what we did to the innocent people from Africa that we dragged over here to slave and do our work for us....Remember the millions of innocent people we killed in Japan?? You remember, when WE ushered in the use of atomic warfare? THE same atomic warfare that we are afraid of now! Why does nobody scream in horror about the millions of innocents that we killed? Using the logic of the USA we should have just killed the leaders of Japan...We were warned to get our noses out of certain places and we didn't...Once we got in too deep we could have cleaned up several terrorist factions and we didn't..so what does anyone expect? Terrorists have figured out what most countries have not..and that is: They can't match us in military strength so they will do things from the inside...Unfortunately, for those poor people in those buildings and planes.. Thank you for bearing with me while i blew off some steam. To all of the families and friends of the deceased on 9-11 as well as every Palestinian and Jew and everyone the world over who has ever lost a loved one, i send my condolences....and exercising my right to free speech in this wonderful and free country of America: A big FUCK YOU to all the greedy, insensitive, opportunistic, blind sheep who keep this country fucked up..and who never want to take responsibilty for any of their own (or their country's) actions... How many will have to die and suffer before we get off OUR asses and get our shit together? Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:57:42 EDT From: Superflyww9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin interview...... In a message dated 9/11/02 12:18:24 PM, luvjazzz@yahoo.com writes: << Excellent interview Alexandra,congrats.Ari >> It's a boy. My name is Alexander. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:35:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin interview...... Superflyww9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/11/02 12:18:24 PM, luvjazzz@yahoo.com writes: << Excellent interview Alexandra,congrats.Ari >> It's a boy. My name is Alexander. Sorry 'bout that.....Air Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:02:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert ..According to your logic everyone should hate everyone else,I agree (somewhat) with your sentiments,but the Egyptians had slaves from the 'known world',and treated them like shit,in fact slavery in Africa was a way of life long before we europeans came out of the caves. The thing about the Taliban and Al Qowarda is they hate everyone that isn't Moslem 'per se',Remember Robert when we freed Afghanistan the people were DANCING IN THE STREETS and not without cause. Sure America,Britain,Germany,Italy etc. etc. have done some mighty horrendous things,ask the Vietnamese people,as for why the leaders choose whether to go to war,alas 'tis the same in every country around the world,not just here. There is AT THIS VERY MOMENT a meeting taking place in a mosque in Finsbury Park,London in which the ONLY agenda is the Moslemization of the world BY ANY MEANS,and yes it STINKS of what the 'CHRISTIANS' did in the last century or ten,the problem IS NOT SO MUCH AMERICA as it is RELIGION,the sooner we get over then stupid imature notion of a god the better off the world,and humanity will be, Unfortunately we have a President that wants war at any cost,but he does not stand alone,look at the killings in Africa over the last ten years alone,we alone are not agressors,we alone do not think 'our way of life/thinking/nation is the 'only way to go' go to Australia,I found the racism there far more frightening than on these shores,go to north London and talk to Pakistani's about he fucking national front,go to Kosova and ask them if they hate Americans,don't be TOO hard on this nation for without it most of europe would have been under the sway of a maniac and I'd have been a bar of soap or a lamp shade. Interestingly after 9-11 the people of Iran took to the streets against their own oppressive regime's will and lit candles for those that died in the attacks..go figure.Ari - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:24:29 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Reply to Robert Gentlemen, Attempting to rationalise history by hindsight is, in my opinion, a dangerous game. And very, very wrong. I guess a certain amount of spleen-venting is understandable in the circumstances, though I'd prefer it if Idealcopy was somewhere I could get away from blanket media coverage of the events of November 9th.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:29:05 -0700 From: "John M Campbell" Subject: [idealcopy] uh..... so Ari, what's yer point? johnc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:01:24 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 >packaging it as a fifty-minute album, >my nerves would get frazzled by it Umm.... better start giving your nerves a workout.... (^_^;) Cryptically yours, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:05:01 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] colin interview >===== >Andrew Westmeyer >anw7pima@yahoo.com > Hey Andrew, Have a good time at Wire tonight. Colin says "Hi!". (You lucky dog...(^_^)) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:11:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 >>packaging it as a fifty-minute album, >my nerves would get frazzled by it Umm.... better start giving your nerves a workout.... (^_^;) Cryptically yours,<< Indeed. On one of his digital radio slots Colin said the idea of the R&Bs was to be slightly 'underground' - and after a while the best bits from 3 or 4 6-trackers would be released as an album. But not everything - there will always be some stuff unique to the R&Bs. I guess this will be at least 6 months off - you'd need at least four R&Bs before you could get, say, a 14-track album... This would account for why R&B1 got a proper release (to guarantee media coverage - most print media won't review "internet-only" releases) while the others will stay underground. Saves cost & hassle, and it's unlikely they'd get another bout of reviews as good as they did for R&B1. Mercury Music Prize 2003 for the album?? Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:19:42 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 04:01:24PM -0700, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > >packaging it as a fifty-minute album, > >my nerves would get frazzled by it > > Umm.... better start giving your nerves a workout.... (^_^;) Oh, come on. YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO US! I'm a neurotic student, I can't cope with the uncertainty of your gnomic pronouncements! :) - - Andrew - -- "Maybe I'm crazy, maybe diminished; maybe I'm innocent, maybe I'm finished, Maybe I blacked out - how, how do I play this?" - - R.E.M. , 'Diminished' ("Up") adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:25:33 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #303 >>>packaging it as a fifty-minute album, >>my nerves would get frazzled by it > >Umm.... better start giving your nerves a workout.... (^_^;) > >Cryptically yours,<< > >Indeed. On one of his digital radio slots Colin said the idea of the >R&Bs was to be slightly 'underground' - and after a while the best bits>from 3 or 4 6-trackers would be released as an album. Yeah - that's basically what Colin said last night. I wasn't sure if it were common knowledge or not - hence my crypticism. (Is that a word? (^_^)) At the after-gig chat/equipment packing, I mentioned that you could get R&B01 in the stores here, and Colin said that it's sold extremely well. Crazily well. A lot better than they'd expected. I asked why R&B02 wouldn't be released the same way, and Colin basically said that it was because of plans for a full length album - they didn't want to have the casual fan buy a couple of EPs, then get an album that was basically the same tracks. So, the R&B series will basically be for the hardcore fans (you know who you are!) with R&B01 serving as a teaser for the album for the general public. In addition, Graham said that they were entering the studio in October.... R&B03, anyone??? Yay!!!! Cheers, Paul P.S. Hope I didn't give away any major secrets here... If I did, mea culpa! I'm just too thrilled about all of this Wire activity to keep it to myself. (^_^) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:34:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] uh..... John M Campbell wrote: so Ari, what's yer point? johnc I guess my point is 'that was then and this is now' to rant about what DID happen(i.e what the U.S,Britain et al.did 60 years ago)doesn't take us anywhere,which is why they were wrong to do what they did(world trade center) just as much as it was wrong to do what we did when we bombed Vietnam.The only way forward is to stop all this retaliation biz,whether it's them doing it to us or us doing it to them. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen any time soon. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:41:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] Hey Jaime!..../Hi Scott jaime janzen wrote:From: "jaime janzen" Thanks for the welcome. Hello Scott. Sorry about missing your party, Ari, but I just couldn't get away from the children. Maybe you can make it to my birthday.Jaime ----- Original Message -----From: Ari BrittSent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 1:02 PMTo: jaime janzenSubject: Re: [idealcopy] Hey Jaime!.... jaime janzen wrote: Sorry. I'm trying to catch up on the conversations here. Hello everybody. Welcome indeed,you'll soon get the hang of this site,not like the (now) boring shriekback site eh Scottkins-private joke for shriek listers) NICE to see another female on the list even if you're not coming to my party...... still there's always next year Ari > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! - We Remember >9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldbs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost - --------------------------------- Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:02:19 +0100 From: "Tim" Subject: [idealcopy] New Order back to mine New Order are releasing one of those 'Back to Mine' DJ mix things of their favourite tracks. Quite an interesting line-up of tunes, mix all these up and you've got New Order it seems. Wonder what Wire's selection would be? 1. Big Eyed Beans From Venus - Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band 2. Higher Than the Sun - Primal Scream 3. I can't Stand the Rain - Missy Elliot (Supa Dupa Fly) 4. Venus in Furs - The Velvet Underground 5. M62 Song - Doves 6. In Every Dream Home a Heartache - Roxy Music 7. Was Dog a Doughnut? - Cat Stevens 8. Bassline - Mantronix 9. Cherry Red - The Groundhogs 10. Energy Flash - Joey Beltram 11. I Feel Love - Donna Summer (Patrick Cowley mix) 12. Mushroom - Can 13. The Dance - Rhythim is Rhythim 14. E=MC2 - Giorgio Vs Talla 2XLC ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #305 *******************************