From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #301 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, September 9 2002 Volume 05 : Number 301 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Strange gigs ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] st arkansas [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] Strange gigs ["John Roberts" ] Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: Denver Review [Rain19c@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] The Appliance of science ["Andrew Lumbard" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Strange gigs Yeah, I was at the New Cross gig (Deptford Albany, right?) which, as I was saying to Alistair off-list, was even better than the weird location gigs - as was their performance at the Town & Country club. Pound for pound one of the most reliable live acts I've ever seen (along with Mark Stewart & the Maffia / Tackhead, Hammill / VdGG, Pavement, Faust, Penthouse & Wire off the top of my head). A similar experience to the ICA gig you describe below was when I went to see Las Furas dels Baus in an abandoned warehouse in London Docklands in the late 80s. They're a Spanish theatre / performance act who did the opening ceremony of the Barcelona Olympics. We were bussed out from the ICA to godknows where (Docklands was still unknown territory than) and ushered into a huge space (a child was turned away as I recall), one end of which was kitted out with racked seating and water tanks. Those of us who chose to stand were first nearly run over by careening shopping trolleys containing flickering TV sets, pushed with flagrant disregard for health and safety, then by large wheeled contraptions from which naked performers flung raw offal at each other (and the audience). Then a naked man climbs into a water tank, breathing through a large tube, and is offered offal by one of the performers in one of the tenderest (no pun intended) moments I've ever seen on a stage. There was musical interludes during this and some other stuff which I've forgotten. Great evening out. Saw them more recently than that too but the first time was the best. And as for massive French, performance art brass combo Urban Sax...maybe some other time. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Fergus Kelly To: Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:20 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Strange gigs > I suppose one of the most unusual gigs was The Bow Gamelan on a barge in The > Liffey under The Hapenny Bridge in Dublin in 1990. My abiding memory is of > the car alarm that went off just before the gig, and continued right > throughout the whole set, despite desperate attempts by Paul Burwell to stop > it (he did everything short of throwing it into the river). Z'ev was working > with them at the time, which was quite interesting, as I'm pretty keen on > his stuff. Went for a few pints of the holy black with them afterwards.... > which was nice !! (sorry, this Fast Show joke will be lost to US listers). > > I much preffered the show they did in the ICA with Bob Cobbing in 1986, > called "In C and Air", where Burwell played percussion inside a tank of > water (while Richard Wilson and Anne Bean lowered large sawblades in and out > of the water), the stage started to clatter of it's own accord, opening to > release what seemed like talcum powder, hoovers whistled in the ceiling at > the back of the audience, a Renault 4 hung from a rig above the stage > started to open and shut its doors violently... plus many other memorable > moments too numerous to mention... all punctuated by the larger than life > Bob Cobbing bellowing through a fuck off big megaphone... > > Lucky enought to have seen Test Dept a couple of times: the first in the > WOMAD festival in The ICA, in 1983... the metals would have been plenty loud > without the PA, but the PA made things very intense... my ears were ringing > for a while after that. And then in New Cross in 1987, when they'd really > gotten into the theatrics (bugles, projections, flags etc). > > Also, lucky enough to have seen Einsturzende Neubauten at London University > in 1985... very intense... a bunch of skinheads in the audience made for a > very tense atmosphere by throwing cans at Mufti, and attempting to push over > some of the PA... > > Fergus > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:20:44 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture Believe me, Ari, I think this is more interesting than most of us would be able to conjure up! another the Keith - ------------------------ > > My guess is we all have an interesting tale to tell,my grandads dad was an advisor in the court of the czar,a most unusual position for a Jew,my grandad and his brothe walked from Russia to France and got a boat to england during the pogroms.He was half Russian half Albanian. > > My Father was half Spanish half Italian,only met him once (around '68) > > My maternal grandmother was a Catholic of Irish/Scottish decent,she went home the day she met my grandad and told her parents she had just met the man she was going to marry,converted,and secretly taught her children christianity. > > My step-dad was christian and i had a christian upbringing,even though both my parents were Jews. > > Last year my brother,sister and i got together for the first time in exactly 50 years.my grandad was hand in hand with the mafia in america and 'the boys' in england,he was a founder member of the BPA and a tough old bastard. > > My mother sang to the troops every week on stage and radio when we lived in Lybia(I was about 5)the Kings brother fell in love with her and tried to kidnap her,I'da bin a Jewish prince in a Moslem country if she had married him a and no doubt had my throat slit when Gaddafi cam to power. > > Interesting life innit.Ari > > > > > Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:17:05 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture > Believe me, Ari, I think this is more interesting than most of us would be > able to conjure up! > > another the Keith > ------------------------ Absolutely! Both my parents lived in the town where they (my sister, and I) still live. One was a Congregationalist, the other a Methodist, who met met at the fairground on the day of the town's Jubillee (religious parade through the town, formed in the 19th century by a temperance group, that has - ironically - become an excuse for a big annual piss-up! And the girls don't wear knickers that day. Allegedly.). No big conversions, although the Congrationalist now goes to the Methodist chapel. Plenty of fire and brimstone, but no Czars or Libyan Princes. Sorry... Keith > > My guess is we all have an interesting tale to tell,my grandads dad was an > advisor in the court of the czar,a most unusual position for a Jew,my > grandad and his brothe walked from Russia to France and got a boat to > england during the pogroms.He was half Russian half Albanian. > > > > My Father was half Spanish half Italian,only met him once (around '68) > > > > My maternal grandmother was a Catholic of Irish/Scottish decent,she went > home the day she met my grandad and told her parents she had just met the > man she was going to marry,converted,and secretly taught her children > christianity. > > > > My step-dad was christian and i had a christian upbringing,even though > both my parents were Jews. > > > > Last year my brother,sister and i got together for the first time in > exactly 50 years.my grandad was hand in hand with the mafia in america and > 'the boys' in england,he was a founder member of the BPA and a tough old > bastard. > > > > My mother sang to the troops every week on stage and radio when we lived > in Lybia(I was about 5)the Kings brother fell in love with her and tried to > kidnap her,I'da bin a Jewish prince in a Moslem country if she had married > him a and no doubt had my throat slit when Gaddafi cam to power. > > > > Interesting life innit.Ari > > > > > > > > > > Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 09:58:41 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] st arkansas fwiw, here's the response i got from david thomas when i posted a version of the following query on the official website last night (conway, btw, is where the college is --tupelo is, of course, the birthplace of elvis ... &, as it happens, its pretty much the midpoint between lr & montgomery, so probably i should make every effort to make the show in question) -- >The writing of the album started in Conway and was finished near >Tupelo. It is fitting to start the tour there. > >Yours sincerely, > >David Thomas >Director >Ubu Projex >Hove, England >anyone particularly knowledgeable about the whole david thomas axis? i've >been mystified for months about why they're playing a free show on 9/18 at >the liberal arts college 30 mins outside little rock (that i'll probably >have to skip on the heels of this latest long haul, though they're playing >nashville, somewhat closer, the day before [my & hank sr's birthday] & the >considerably closer athens about a week later. the friend i stayed with in >lr, though, tells me that someone connected with the college's music >program -- possibly named danny grace -- was apparently pals with thomas >back in the day, even doing some projects with him, possibly going back to >the fabled drome records days. >anyone know? i don't have time or energy to go looking through my copies of >the box-set booklet, various comps or from the velvets to the voidoids ... >is there a pere ubu list or something? > >dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 10:49:01 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] st arkansas re: the earlier discussion of the "Nashville/Hope" road sign which is on the back of the new Bobby Bare Jr. solo album, and is being used in Bloodshot Records ads, but appeared on the back cover of Marky and the Unexplained Stains' second album nearly a decade ago: This week, had occasion to examine Bobby Bare Jr.'s record whilst on a shopping expedition. I didn't buy it, because I'm lukewarm at best on Bobby either as a solo artist or with his band (basically, he has two songs, the faster one like "You Blew Me Off" and the slower one like "Tobacco Spit," and neither of them is nearly as engaging as the Ramones' one song), but I noticed that the producer was none other than Mark Nevers, i.e., Marky of Marky and the Unexplained Stains. So I guess Bare Jr. came across the picture legitimately and with the approval of Mr. Nevers. everyone in Nashville knows everyone else, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 15:53:57 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Strange gigs Ooh I wish you Test Dept lot would keep quiet! 8-) Jealous man here. I only ever saw them once at The Town and Country Club(?) - the gig that was some of the album A Good Night Out. Too many bagpipes and not even metal bashing that night imo. The only other time I got close was when they were rumoured to be playing in Leicester in 1984 but the promoter pulled out when he realised how much they were going to cost to put on. Cheers John >From: "Keith Knight" >Reply-To: "Keith Knight" >To: "Fergus Kelly" , >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Strange gigs >Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:39:01 +0100 > >Yeah, I was at the New Cross gig (Deptford Albany, right?) which, as I was >saying to Alistair off-list, was even better than the weird location gigs - >as was their performance at the Town & Country club. Pound for pound one >of >the most reliable live acts I've ever seen (along with Mark Stewart & the >Maffia / Tackhead, Hammill / VdGG, Pavement, Faust, Penthouse & Wire off >the >top of my head). > >A similar experience to the ICA gig you describe below was when I went to >see Las Furas dels Baus in an abandoned warehouse in London Docklands in >the >late 80s. They're a Spanish theatre / performance act who did the opening >ceremony of the Barcelona Olympics. We were bussed out from the ICA to >godknows where (Docklands was still unknown territory than) and ushered >into >a huge space (a child was turned away as I recall), one end of which was >kitted out with racked seating and water tanks. Those of us who chose to >stand were first nearly run over by careening shopping trolleys containing >flickering TV sets, pushed with flagrant disregard for health and safety, >then by large wheeled contraptions from which naked performers flung raw >offal at each other (and the audience). Then a naked man climbs into a >water tank, breathing through a large tube, and is offered offal by one of >the performers in one of the tenderest (no pun intended) moments I've ever >seen on a stage. There was musical interludes during this and some other >stuff which I've forgotten. Great evening out. Saw them more recently >than >that too but the first time was the best. > >And as for massive French, performance art brass combo Urban Sax...maybe >some other time. > >another the Keith > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Fergus Kelly >To: >Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:20 PM >Subject: [idealcopy] Strange gigs > > > > I suppose one of the most unusual gigs was The Bow Gamelan on a barge in >The > > Liffey under The Hapenny Bridge in Dublin in 1990. My abiding memory is >of > > the car alarm that went off just before the gig, and continued right > > throughout the whole set, despite desperate attempts by Paul Burwell to >stop > > it (he did everything short of throwing it into the river). Z'ev was >working > > with them at the time, which was quite interesting, as I'm pretty keen >on > > his stuff. Went for a few pints of the holy black with them >afterwards.... > > which was nice !! (sorry, this Fast Show joke will be lost to US >listers). > > > > I much preffered the show they did in the ICA with Bob Cobbing in 1986, > > called "In C and Air", where Burwell played percussion inside a tank of > > water (while Richard Wilson and Anne Bean lowered large sawblades in and >out > > of the water), the stage started to clatter of it's own accord, opening >to > > release what seemed like talcum powder, hoovers whistled in the ceiling >at > > the back of the audience, a Renault 4 hung from a rig above the stage > > started to open and shut its doors violently... plus many other >memorable > > moments too numerous to mention... all punctuated by the larger than >life > > Bob Cobbing bellowing through a fuck off big megaphone... > > > > Lucky enought to have seen Test Dept a couple of times: the first in the > > WOMAD festival in The ICA, in 1983... the metals would have been plenty >loud > > without the PA, but the PA made things very intense... my ears were >ringing > > for a while after that. And then in New Cross in 1987, when they'd >really > > gotten into the theatrics (bugles, projections, flags etc). > > > > Also, lucky enough to have seen Einsturzende Neubauten at London >University > > in 1985... very intense... a bunch of skinheads in the audience made for >a > > very tense atmosphere by throwing cans at Mufti, and attempting to push >over > > some of the PA... > > > > Fergus > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > http://www.hotmail.com http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 16:01:15 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture What is this - confessional? For the record my grandparents on my father's side were originally protestant but my grandmother converted to Reorganised Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - a mormon offshoot. My mother's side - grandad was catholic and grandmother Reorganised Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Whilst not quite as 'exotic' as Ari's family tree it must have been interesting for the neighbours on a Leicester council estate. My mother and father both Reorganised Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and thus I was too. Until I started to listening to punk rock records. Cheers John >From: "Keith Astbury" >To: "Keith Knight" , "Ari Britt" >, >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture >Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:17:05 +0100 > > > Believe me, Ari, I think this is more interesting than most of us would >be > > able to conjure up! > > > > another the Keith > > ------------------------ > >Absolutely! Both my parents lived in the town where they (my sister, and I) >still live. One was a Congregationalist, the other a Methodist, who met met >at the fairground on the day of the town's Jubillee (religious parade >through the town, formed in the 19th century by a temperance group, that >has - ironically - become an excuse for a big annual piss-up! And the girls >don't wear knickers that day. Allegedly.). > >No big conversions, although the Congrationalist now goes to the Methodist >chapel. Plenty of fire and brimstone, but no Czars or Libyan Princes. > >Sorry... > >Keith > > > > > My guess is we all have an interesting tale to tell,my grandads dad >was >an > > advisor in the court of the czar,a most unusual position for a Jew,my > > grandad and his brothe walked from Russia to France and got a boat to > > england during the pogroms.He was half Russian half Albanian. > > > > > > My Father was half Spanish half Italian,only met him once (around '68) > > > > > > My maternal grandmother was a Catholic of Irish/Scottish decent,she >went > > home the day she met my grandad and told her parents she had just met >the > > man she was going to marry,converted,and secretly taught her children > > christianity. > > > > > > My step-dad was christian and i had a christian upbringing,even though > > both my parents were Jews. > > > > > > Last year my brother,sister and i got together for the first time in > > exactly 50 years.my grandad was hand in hand with the mafia in america >and > > 'the boys' in england,he was a founder member of the BPA and a tough old > > bastard. > > > > > > My mother sang to the troops every week on stage and radio when we >lived > > in Lybia(I was about 5)the Kings brother fell in love with her and tried >to > > kidnap her,I'da bin a Jewish prince in a Moslem country if she had >married > > him a and no doubt had my throat slit when Gaddafi cam to power. > > > > > > Interesting life innit.Ari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback >http://www.shriekback.com > > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 11:43:49 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture whereas, on my mother's side, my jewish grandfather from haddonfield, new jersey (philadelphia suburb, apparently), married my southern baptist grandmother from sw arkansas & wound up in eastern oklahoma. not really surprising that they divorced when mother was 2, i suppose. dan >What is this - confessional? For the record my grandparents on my father's >side were originally protestant but my grandmother converted to Reorganised >Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - a mormon offshoot. My >mother's side - grandad was catholic and grandmother Reorganised Church of >Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Whilst not quite as 'exotic' as Ari's >family tree it must have been interesting for the neighbours on a Leicester >council estate. My mother and father both Reorganised Church of Jesus >Christ of Latter Day Saints, and thus I was too. Until I started to >listening to punk rock records. > >Cheers > >John > > >>From: "Keith Astbury" >>To: "Keith Knight" , "Ari Britt" >>, >>Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture >>Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:17:05 +0100 >> >> > Believe me, Ari, I think this is more interesting than most of us would >>be >> > able to conjure up! >> > >> > another the Keith >> > ------------------------ >> >>Absolutely! Both my parents lived in the town where they (my sister, and I) >>still live. One was a Congregationalist, the other a Methodist, who met met >>at the fairground on the day of the town's Jubillee (religious parade >>through the town, formed in the 19th century by a temperance group, that >>has - ironically - become an excuse for a big annual piss-up! And the girls >>don't wear knickers that day. Allegedly.). >> >>No big conversions, although the Congrationalist now goes to the Methodist >>chapel. Plenty of fire and brimstone, but no Czars or Libyan Princes. >> >>Sorry... >> >>Keith >> >> >> > > My guess is we all have an interesting tale to tell,my grandads dad >>was >>an >> > advisor in the court of the czar,a most unusual position for a Jew,my >> > grandad and his brothe walked from Russia to France and got a boat to >> > england during the pogroms.He was half Russian half Albanian. >> > > >> > > My Father was half Spanish half Italian,only met him once (around '68) >> > > >> > > My maternal grandmother was a Catholic of Irish/Scottish decent,she >>went >> > home the day she met my grandad and told her parents she had just met >>the >> > man she was going to marry,converted,and secretly taught her children >> > christianity. >> > > >> > > My step-dad was christian and i had a christian upbringing,even though >> > both my parents were Jews. >> > > >> > > Last year my brother,sister and i got together for the first time in >> > exactly 50 years.my grandad was hand in hand with the mafia in america >>and >> > 'the boys' in england,he was a founder member of the BPA and a tough old >> > bastard. >> > > >> > > My mother sang to the troops every week on stage and radio when we >>lived >> > in Lybia(I was about 5)the Kings brother fell in love with her and tried >>to >> > kidnap her,I'da bin a Jewish prince in a Moslem country if she had >>married >> > him a and no doubt had my throat slit when Gaddafi cam to power. >> > > >> > > Interesting life innit.Ari >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback >>http://www.shriekback.com >> > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > > > > >http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 18:36:43 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture > What is this - confessional? It certainly seems to be! Well it is Sunday after all ; ) Kind of interesting though... > Whilst not quite as 'exotic' as Ari's > family tree it must have been interesting for the neighbours on a Leicester > council estate. Absolutely. As for Ari's though, well I bet I'm not the only one here who feels like Mr Mundane... Keith NP Stereolab - Sound-dust ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:19:17 -0400 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Garbage Fighters (Pow! Pow! Pow!) Speaking of the Butthole's - I've seen notice of a Surfer DVD called "Blind Eye See All" live from 85, maybe it's a little before their full-blown acidmadness gigs. Anyone have any info on this? - Steve. (the) G - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Hick" To: Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 5:20 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Garbage Fighters (Pow! Pow! Pow!) > Anyone who's been to more Shellac and Butthole Surfers gigs than transvestite > gangbangs will surely recognice Garbage as the third rate T'Pau rip off they > obviously are. > > As for Foo Fighters, they aren't doing anything that Iron Maiden didn't > already try with more wit, class, style and bigger dicks. > > I see in The Wire magazine that next month Norwegian music will be hip, so I'm > looking forward to boring you all with daily accounts of how I've been > listening to some fantastic old A-Ha singles. > > It is true that the sun always shines on TV, I know I've seen Jurassic Park > (I've even been there in a past life a sick Triceratops). However, my Labour > MP is urging me to boycott Exxon, and so good citizens you know it makes > sense... > > OBEY THE LAW > > Cracked Machine > Highly Irregular Cyberzine > http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > > "Oi!" > > (The Clash - Career Opportunities) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 13:34:13 -0700 From: "Lydia" Subject: [idealcopy] SD last night, LA tonight Well the boys did a fine show indeed last night in San Diego, and I'm going for it again tonight here in Los Angeles (and the LA Weekly's top pick). Met up with fellow ICer Rick from Santa Cruz and got to the TINY club The Casbah in time to wait for a late-start show starting with The Standard. I liked them and their loud sound, didn't care much for that vocal style, but I'll leave it to someone else to dissect... Then the boys took the stage, setting up their own equipment and dressed like they had just taken a stroll in the park (nice, comfortable shoes) and had a few song lyrics taped to the floor in front of Colin's stand. We were close enough to get a close view of the words to 'Mr. Marxs Table' and '99.9' (and I think someone stole one copy at the end of the show)..Colin started in on 99.9 and they drilled through the set list of R&B1 and 2: 99.9 Germ Ship Mr. Marxs Table First Fast Read and Burn Agfers Comet Art of Stopping Spent I Don't Understand They decided to stay onstage a little longer-the club was so small they really couldn't go 'offstage'. So we were told to pretend we were now in the dressing room and they would play a few old ones: so it was 'Lowdown' and 'Pink Flag'. Then they escaped out into the street and didn't return despite the whole place screaming for almost 15 straight minutes, so a few of us jumped onstage and stole some set lists (yeah, I got one) Still, they were so so tight and worked damned hard for us - I nearly lost feeling in my legs springing up and down to the speedy beat. Best thing was being so close to see the funny faces they made at each other, the between-song chatter and Colin even interacting with the audience, looking somewhat surprised at me when I sang along with him. Best songs were...well, EVERY one of them (the crowd especially liked I Don't Understand and old stuff) Looking forward to tonight in LA! More to come later... Lydia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 17:52:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] horticulture Great story Ari, and a couple of slight parallels to my own... I'm half-Polish (hence the name) - my father escaped when the Nazis invaded, travelling (walking mainly) to France, where he was sheltered by the French resistance (around the Marseille area). he then continued to neutral Spain, where he was repatriated to England via Gibraltar. This whole process took more than two years. He continued fighting (in the Special Forces) and met my mother in Scotland, where she was working, at the end of the war. They'd originally planned to go to live in Poland, but the communist regime in Poland resulted in a change of plan - hence they stayed in England. My mother comes from Yorkshire, but her mother's parents (my great-grandparents) were Irish, and had moved to Liverpool in the late 1800s. Never sure whether my grandmother was born in Ireland or moved to Liverpool as a young child. They lived in Toxteth, at a time when that was a prosperous part of town! My family tree is very long and thin.... my grandfather on my Father's side was actually killed in world war 1 (before my father was born, and 44 years before I was born). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 22:13:29 EDT From: Rain19c@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Denver Review >>Mostly new stuff was played. New as in unreleased songs or as in new songs from the 2 read and burns? It would make sense for wire to be touring the US in support for R&B01, while selling the first copies of R&B02 at the show, while the setlist is made up of R&B03. ~michael, one week to go.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:55:56 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The Appliance of science www.appliance-music.co.uk/ mp3's available from live gig. AndyL >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On >> Behalf Of Fergus Kelly >> Sent: 06 September 2002 17:53 >> To: idealcopy@smoe.org >> Subject: [idealcopy] The Appliance of science >> >> >> OK, I'll run this one up the flagpole again, and see if anyone >> salutes it - >> anyone know if the group Appliance (support for Wire in >> Brighton), are any >> use ? >> >> By the way Dan, it was Robert that drummed on Frank Tovey's stuff.... >> >> Enjoy the weekend ! >> >> Fergus >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #301 *******************************