From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #280 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, August 26 2002 Volume 05 : Number 280 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit! [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Fwd: [idealcopy] The Wedding Present [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore ["dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit! On Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 02:55:00AM +0100, Nik wrote: > In message <20020823231841.GE50496@colon.colondot.net>, Andrew > Walkingshaw writes > >as such, there's less honesty about alcoholism than other forms > >of drug addiction, and less awareness of the effects it can have on > >those who have to deal with the addicted person. > > The income for governments from tax on alcohol must surely outweigh the > strain on the health services caused by people suffering from alcoholism > or alcohol-related illnesses. I was referring more to the effect on those who care about the abuser: the family and friends of the alcoholic. Living with an addict is very difficult, and for a child who really doesn't understand things yet doubly so. > >"Everything in moderation", yes: people want to escape from reality, and > >in some cases alcohol or other drugs is one of the escape routes. > > Add to this: shy, awkward people using booze to come out of their > shells. Or to explore depths of feelings they think they cannot access > by other means. Very addictive. I practised this mature form of self- > development for 18 years. Not recommended. It's one of the reasons I don't drink: I talk quite a lot, but I'm an intensely private person. Using alcohol as a crutch would end up with it using me, looking honestly at my personality and my family history. > >For the vast majority of people, this probably isn't the case: and I'm not > >about to tell any of you to stop drinking. > > By all means, no. If all regular users of alcohol were to experience the > exhilarating happiness that goes along with refusing to subject their > bodies and souls to the stuff, who knows what kind of society we'd end > up with. Exhilarating happiness: can I have some of that please? > > > >Ever the idealist, I guess. :) > > Yeah, get lost. I bet you enjoy your work, too! Some of the time. I hope what I'm trying to do is worthwhile, even though it's pretty abstract. (Computational modelling of solid-state systems directly from quantum mechanical first principles, at least as far as is practical...) - - Andrew > > > Nik > signing off on an on topic note: thanks for mentioning the availability > of Read & Burn at the HMV in Lion Yard! Fopp have some of the '80s stuff: I got "The Ideal Copy" from there, and probably will get ABIAC soon. - -- "Maybe I'm crazy, maybe diminished; maybe I'm innocent, maybe I'm finished, Maybe I blacked out - how, how do I play this?" - - R.E.M. , 'Diminished' ("Up") adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 13:45:19 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore > >> I'd liked Bowie since John I'm Only Dancing (didn't like Starman that much > at the time - the shame!),<< > > Wow! Starman on TOTO was one of the most astonishing TV moments of all time. Yeah that seems to be the general consensus. I was gonna say I wasn't ready to see two blokes (Bowie & Ronno) so close, but then I was a Marc and Mickey fan ; ) BTW Have you seen that footage lately? It's one of my fave clips - not just for Bowie's posing but cos of that young lad dancing and singing away in the background - right inbetween DB and Ronson - in a purple tank-top (At the height of glam rock the fans couldn't have looked more different than their idols!) Halfway through the song, he realises he's on camera, gives his mate the nod and then ups his performance accordingly. Magic! > > >>because he got credit for stuff that I felt he'd ripped off his mate Marc. > > So although I had a healthy collection of 70's Bowie albums, I certainly > > wasn't the biggest DB fan in the world.<< > > Whereas for me Bolan lost the plot pretty early on (Truck on Tyke being a > very lame single comapred to what went before) though rising from the ground > on a star with light bulbs round it (Teenage Dream) was pretty good as TOTO > moments went! Thought Africa was Toto's best moment myself ; ) Seriously though it's a wee bit galling for a Bolan fan to hear Bowie being given all the credit for glam. And as for Bowie going soul...well Bolan had done that way before Bowie with his association with Sister Pat Hall and Gloria Jones. It's just that Marc was - ironic this! - probably too bothered about chart placings etc and watered the results down. Shame he didn't complete/release some of the stuff I've bought since his death... > > (Aside...Personally I think Ziggy is totally over-rated. One of my least > > fave 70's Bowie albums....)<< > > Heresy! Mind you it was the first album I bought so it's bound to be a bit > special. But it's only matched by Low IMO. There's some great stuff on Ziggy admittedly, but there's something a bit weedy about it IMO. I think people like it now cos of the effect it had at the time, rather than being a GREAT album. And I'm really not keen on the title track. Not even Bauhaus could make a success of that ; ) > > >>Unfortunately Bowie just seemed to lose it at some point in the 80's, << > > He lost it when he tunred up a Victoria station sieg heiling. Well that wasn't one of his better moves, to put it mildly... > Don't much care for Lodger to be honest. File under 'interesting', rather than 'great'. > So he probably lost it before the 80s. (I know, > Ashes to Ashes is a great pop single - in a knowing, self-referential way) And Scary Monsters is a really good album IMO... > >>> though I bought the odd 45, I honestly didn't expect to buy another DB > > album ever again.<< > > Quarter of a century since I last bought a "new" DB release.... I love the last two. And *liked* the two before that... > > >>I thought Tin Machine was a good idea on paper.<< > > That's as may be. But it sounded shite. No arguments here, mate! > > >>But I think Bowie had a very respectable 90's. He might have taken care of > > his finacial needs with his Bowie bonds, but he didn't exactly seemed arsed > > about selling lots of records. 1. Outside, for example, isn't a > > particularly commercial album.<< > > Therein lies the problem. He's TRYING to be left-field, which adds to the > comical nature of his efforts. Trying to be up with whatever the latest sound > is. Whereas in the 70s HE was the latest sound. This was a problem for a lot of people. And Bowie has maybe realised it to some point. The last two ....Hours and Heathen sound like 'Bowie albums' with updated productions etc. (My Bowie fan mate thinks this is a bad idea. He prefers DB trying to be left field. Me - I like DB playing to strengths.) If you liked the 70's stuff you might be pleasantly surprised. Go on, you know you want to!!! > > > isn't there so many more interesting people to go investigate? > > > > Not really no...<< > > Oh come on. Notwithstanding new bands (of which there are plenty of > recommendations here) there is sooooo much stuff made over tha past 4 decades > left undiscovered or half-forgotten.... Don't get me wrong here. Bowie's not my all-time hero, and for a long time I really wasn't arsed about him. In fact, I only went to see him in the 90's because Morrissey was supporting him. (Ironically, Moz was OK and Bowie was superb!) It's just that Heathen is, along with Read & Burn, The Coral and Murray Street, one of my fave albums of the year so far... >all of it better than Tin Machine :-) surely not! > > Hands up who would have bought that Erasure single if Wir weren't involved!< > > Diffrence is that Wire disappoint so rarely. Anything that has their > involvement tends to be good - at the very least. Well yeah, though personally I was less keen on Manscape and First Letter. First Letter was esp. disappointing to me because A) I wasn't that keen on it and B) I thought Slow & So... was the single of the year. Otherwise...hey I'm glad I bought that Erasure single. I love it! > > >>talking of age, someone told me the other day that the reason I didn't > > like Travis was because I was "too old". > > > > As this was a 30 yr old as opposed to an 18 yr old, I would normally have > > been quite depressed about being called "too old" for anything. But how can > > *anyone* be too old for Travis! If their records were any more polite, > > they'd be shaking hands with the Queen...<< > > I hope you treated the individual concerned with the requisite contempt. I felt better when she asked who I liked. Thinking I should maybe mention someone she would know, I said The Strokes. "Who?" she said of that band that were on the cover of the NME every other week last year. "Are they an old band?" Well admittedly she might have a point there, but I think the words 'finger' and 'pulse' were strangers to her ; ) > Mind you, Travis are way preerable to many of the other turgid heaps of shite > out there. Coldplay, Staraialor and Stereophonics are all significantly worse > IMO. I hate the Stereophonics, but find it hard to get worked up about the others. I'll even admit to liking Yellow. Starsailor have proved a disappointment to me though. Named after as Tim Buckley album, I had high hopes for them - particularly as I liked the first 45 a lot (one of the b-sides Love Is Here is gorgeous!) I even bought the album. But a whole LP's worth of that whiny bloody voice...oh get a grip man! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 14:38:51 +0100 From: Nik Subject: Re: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit! >On Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 02:55:00AM +0100, Nik wrote: >> The income for governments from tax on alcohol must surely outweigh the >> strain on the health services caused by people suffering from alcoholism >> or alcohol-related illnesses. > In message <20020825105516.GA9619@colon.colondot.net>, Andrew Walkingshaw writes >I was referring more to the effect on those who care about the abuser: the >family and friends of the alcoholic. Living with an addict is very difficult, >and for a child who really doesn't understand things yet doubly so. The above was just my usual way of avoiding emotional issues. Growing up in an atmosphere where alcohol-fuelled high drama was often the order of the day made me perceive my own emotional landscape as lacking in depth. If a person is serious about drinking, there's nothing you can do to stop them. > > >Exhilarating happiness: can I have some of that please? Here you go :) > >> > >> >Ever the idealist, I guess. :) >> >> Yeah, get lost. I bet you enjoy your work, too! > >Some of the time. I hope what I'm trying to do is worthwhile, even though >it's pretty abstract. (Computational modelling of solid-state systems >directly from quantum mechanical first principles, at least as far as is >practical...) I remember the long version of this you posted to the list a while ago which made for a fascinating read. No need for alcohol there then, either. > >> signing off on an on topic note: thanks for mentioning the availability >> of Read & Burn at the HMV in Lion Yard! > >Fopp have some of the '80s stuff: I got "The Ideal Copy" from there, and >probably will get ABIAC soon. > I've got most of this stuff on vinyl. But I would still be grateful if you could tell me where this new Fopp is. My home and workplace are a lot closer to the Gog Magog Hills than to the city centre, which I tend to avoid in summer. Nik ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 12:19:10 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore In a message dated 8/24/02 4:43:17 PM, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << > Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? I can't stand him. All > the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. Liked Born To Run a lot when I was 16. (And still did last time I heard it). Not liked much since mind...(*Hated* Born in the USA!) >> i hated born to run when i was 16, hated all that era, hated born in the usa even more, and then i heard a song or two from nebraska that i knew were good but i didn't want to admit liking at that time. now that i'm older and *ahem* wiser, i'll say that i like the quieter stuff like philadelphia, i'm on fire, that sort of stuff. there's a new one i just heard that is pretty good. i can sum up my feelings on him pretty much by saying that i think he's a talented writer (i've always liked patti smith's because the night), but he often executes the songs with poor taste. no offense to clarence clemens, but goddammit all that stuff sucks :o) - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 17:19:02 +0100 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Springsteen...(was Re: time reflected like a whore) MarkB asks... > > Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? er...i've heard very little of 'the Boss'' output and i probably dislike him for exactly the same reasons as you Mark...but...i have to admit to liking 'I'm On Fire'...only because i can hear a 100mph cover version of it in my head...would've loved to hear a 'prime' Ramones or Leatherface version...or maybe even one by Shellac, considering the AC-DC covers they did a while ago... anyway, that's about the only one of Brucie's i can stand...FWIW... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:26:04 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] coulda woulda shoulda 20/20 hindsight of stimulant overindulgement during times of swimming with that school of fish was what was prevalient in almost all my social circles 1970's ~ 1990; what to do to enhance sex drive & enchantment. I thought it the way to 'float' one's boat about ... working hard at not working. Wrong! Those escapades did not set my life up with 'truely' enjoyable work, a wife & kids in a house with a white picket fence, or financial freedom. Work is key in one of the secret's of life doors, not so as fiddlin' about Pandora's box. Endorphin release in one's body through exercise, such as runner's high, or physical work should be body buzz enough. What of Monty Python's Lumberjacks? How true!?! And being close enough, I'll steer this back to our youth when nursery rhymes, fairie tales, and riddles were (or should have been) ingrained in us. Pop goes the weasel (as reported on ABC 20/20 or similiar news show) was about an English tailor, addict, who would pawn (pop) his iron (weasel) for his fix. Old mother Hubbard was about a sex addict (~ Beatle's Lady Madonna), Cinderella was looking for mr right, little red riding hood / 3 little pigs about predators, and sad memory as to the jist of rumpelstiltskin, raponsel, snow white, hansel & gretel, tom thumb, jack & the beanstalk, sleeping beauty, little jack horner, little miss duffet, humpty dumpty, homer simpson etc et al. Jeckle & Hyde is probably the most appropriate fit to this thread, as could be Halloween itself. Children / people costume out as to recognize and celebrate life's horrors & ridiculus circumstances, such as a thread from fairie tales to the grave we have as a reminder each year. Prepare for the road ahead Eleanor Rigby & Polythene Pam, perhaps with WIR - The 1st Letter to precondition your day. Feel reality in your dentist's chair twice a year without anesthetic gas or novacaine and zone with your own endorphins while your 'drilled, filled, & billed'; it's just for now, no thanks dr robert. Row, row, row your boat ... voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:51:52 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] BS ... ... is just that in his monotone (monodrone!) voice. Did he learn to sing from "Second City's" parody of Perry Como or what? No inflection in his voice; total bore! I would rather listen to a sick dog vomiting in the wind; at least it would be more interesting. As Bowie is concerned, I'm in agreement as he once was a cult razor edge; now being somewhat more of a commercialized school of fish edge. I believe he merits his status quo succinctly with age & fan base. Shine on you crazy diamond dogs! voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 18:59:05 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: FW: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore Gentlemen gentlemen... please no using the "T" word, for their are truely sensitive people on this list... Bart >> Whereas for me Bolan lost the plot pretty early on (Truck on Tyke being a >> very lame single comapred to what went before) though rising from the >> ground >> on a star with light bulbs round it (Teenage Dream) was pretty good as >> TOTO >> moments went! > > Thought Africa was Toto's best moment myself ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 06:02:10 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore the band that did "i sold cocaine down in africa," you mean? dan >Gentlemen gentlemen... please no using the "T" word, for their are truely >sensitive people on this list... > >Bart > > >>> Whereas for me Bolan lost the plot pretty early on (Truck on Tyke being a >>> very lame single comapred to what went before) though rising from the >>> ground >>> on a star with light bulbs round it (Teenage Dream) was pretty good as >>> TOTO >>> moments went! >> >> Thought Africa was Toto's best moment myself ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 18:53:48 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore > Gentlemen gentlemen... please no using the "T" word, for their are truely > sensitive people on this list... > > Bart I've always felt sorry for Rosanna Arquette. Fancy having THAT song written for you! Christ. He must have hated her... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:23:08 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] a few random things... Hi everyone, Regarding Bruce Springsteen from the perspective of a West Coast U.S. resident (as opposed to an East Coast resident, where Bruce is from): I respect him, but I generally can't stand to listen to him. Far too bombastic for my tastes. I think you have to be from the East Coast to truly appreciate Bruce - he tends to sound like a lot of artists playing that particular bar-band circuit. (Or, maybe they're just copying him.) On the other hand, I do like his "Nebraska" album. That's the one he did at home with a 4-track. Stripped of the bombastic production, it's a fairly intimate and depressing record - the title track alone is about the mass murderer Charlie Starkweather, and it just gets bleaker from there. Not something I spend a lot of time listening to, though. Got the new Autechre CD "Gantz-graf". Interesting. 3 track EP. On a par with Confield, I'd say. I have to admit, I really haven't listened to Confield enough to form an informed opinion of it, so it's hard for me to judge this one. Lots of schizo rhythms and digital noise bursts that turn into beats. Of special note is the edition with the bonus DVD. The DVD contains the "Gantz-graf" video, plus videos for Bass Cadet and Second Bad Vibel. The Second Bad Vibel video is not the same as the version I posted to the list a while ago - this is a new re-edit by Chris Cunningham. Basically, he took all the shots of the "monster in the subway" out. (^_^). The DVD comes in NTSC or PAL, so be sure to get the right version for your region. Warp records says that if you order from them, they'll automatically send NTSC to orders from Japan and the U.S. Finally, I've been working on a new CD project. If you're curious, you can go here: http://www.weasel-bot.com/ptunes These are 56k RealAudio streaming versions of the songs I'm accumulating for the project. This is basically Electronica. Closer to Aphex Twin's Selected Ambient Works than Autechre. Also, reminicent of some of Moby's ambient work, I'd say. I'm using analog (modeling) synths and various real instruments for this - no samplers! (^_^) You might find some of these interesting. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 12:26:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Springsteen...(was Re: time reflected like a whore) hmmmm.... > > > Does anyone here actually like Bruce > Springsteen? I would have to say no to that one. I sort of put him with folks like Dylan who write great lyrics, songs and all, but put the pieces together in pretty uninteresting ways. As a sidenote, I saw a video of him singing "Born in the USA" as a solo guitar piece and it was pretty creepy! A lot more of the dard sarcasm in the song came out. I think the irony of the LP version was lost on alot of folks, including our rather forgetful president as I recall. Suffice to say, I liked it alot more than the original And so, he is one artist who is not in my music collection. ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:43:30 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore At 04:06 PM 8/24/2002 -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >> >>very much echoes a conversation i had yesterday with a co-worker about >> springsteen << >> >> Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? I can't stand him. All >> the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. But wtf is he advertising? Springsteen is one of my very favorites, especially BORN TO RUN, DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN (my pick of 'em all, raw nerves and gaping wounds), THE RIVER, and NEBRASKA. Does it especially surprise me that there's not a big cross-section of people who are Wire and Springsteen fans? No, and that's not an insult to IC'ers at all. Does that make me any less delighted to be seeing them both this fall (Wire 9/14 in Chicago, Bruce 11/9 in Columbus)? Nope. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:44:29 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] a few random things... & perhaps my liking his stuff far more (apparently) than anyone else here has something to do with coming from the, ahem, "heartland"? (tom petty & john mellencamp are also well-represented on my shelves, btw, & yeah, i'm a latter-day listener to certain obvious lynyrd skynyrd pieces as well.) after all, nj origin or not (actually, my maternal grandfather came from haddonfield, but i digress), just like dylan, bruce has always done his damnedest to sound, vocally if not in song structure, just like woody guthrie, oklahoma nasal twang & all. he sounds more bloody southern than iiiiii -- arkansan born & bred -- do. as does california's own john fogerty, come to think of it. dan >Hi everyone, > >Regarding Bruce Springsteen from the perspective of a West Coast U.S. >resident (as opposed to an East Coast resident, where Bruce is from): I >respect him, but I generally can't stand to listen to him. Far too >bombastic for my tastes. I think you have to be from the East Coast to >truly appreciate Bruce - he tends to sound like a lot of artists playing >that particular bar-band circuit. (Or, maybe they're just copying him.) On >the other hand, I do like his "Nebraska" album. That's the one he did at >home with a 4-track. Stripped of the bombastic production, it's a fairly >intimate and depressing record - the title track alone is about the mass >murderer Charlie Starkweather, and it just gets bleaker from there. Not >something I spend a lot of time listening to, though. > >Got the new Autechre CD "Gantz-graf". Interesting. 3 track EP. On a par >with Confield, I'd say. I have to admit, I really haven't listened to >Confield enough to form an informed opinion of it, so it's hard for me to >judge this one. Lots of schizo rhythms and digital noise bursts that turn >into beats. Of special note is the edition with the bonus DVD. The DVD >contains the "Gantz-graf" video, plus videos for Bass Cadet and Second Bad >Vibel. The Second Bad Vibel video is not the same as the version I posted >to the list a while ago - this is a new re-edit by Chris Cunningham. >Basically, he took all the shots of the "monster in the subway" out. (^_^). >The DVD comes in NTSC or PAL, so be sure to get the right version for your >region. Warp records says that if you order from them, they'll >automatically send NTSC to orders from Japan and the U.S. > >Finally, I've been working on a new CD project. If you're curious, you can >go here: > >http://www.weasel-bot.com/ptunes > >These are 56k RealAudio streaming versions of the songs I'm accumulating for >the project. This is basically Electronica. Closer to Aphex Twin's >Selected Ambient Works than Autechre. Also, reminicent of some of Moby's >ambient work, I'd say. I'm using analog (modeling) synths and various real >instruments for this - no samplers! (^_^) You might find some of these >interesting. > >Cheers, >Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:47:08 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore >At 04:06 PM 8/24/2002 -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >> >>very much echoes a conversation i had yesterday with a co-worker about > >> springsteen << > >> > >> Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? I can't stand him. All > >> the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. > >But wtf is he advertising? Springsteen is one of my very favorites, >especially BORN TO RUN, DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN (my pick of 'em all, >raw nerves and gaping wounds), THE RIVER, and NEBRASKA. Does it especially >surprise me that there's not a big cross-section of people who are Wire and >Springsteen fans? oh, thank god -- it's not just me. dan No, and that's not an insult to IC'ers at all. Does >that make me any less delighted to be seeing them both this fall (Wire 9/14 >in Chicago, Bruce 11/9 in Columbus)? Nope. > >later, > >Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 22:30:18 +0100 From: "Scott KELLOCK" Subject: [idealcopy] The Wedding Present - ----- Original Message ----- From: "idealcopy-digest" To: Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 9:30 AM Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #279 > Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:10:11 +0100 > From: "Gary Owens" > Subject: [idealcopy] Meet the new starter > I would also like to know how the wonderful British music press, responded to > the 80's Wire stuff, No doubt at this time they were falling over themselves > hyping bands like the Wedding Present, Mighty Lemondrops and the myriad of > jangly guitar bands of the time... Question ; When did the British music press hype The Wedding Present??? God I only wish they did, no other band deserved acclaim in the 80's. They were one of the best Live Acts around and Gedge and Cinerama are still superb. If the press hyped them I wonder why they didn't get the recognition they deserved, maybe tooooo different like Wire in 70's and 80's. All the best bands start with W ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 22:29:13 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore On Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 03:43:30PM -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: > At 04:06 PM 8/24/2002 -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >> >>very much echoes a conversation i had yesterday with a co-worker about > >> springsteen << > >> > >> Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? I can't stand him. All > >> the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. > > But wtf is he advertising? Springsteen is one of my very favorites, > especially BORN TO RUN, DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN (my pick of 'em all, > raw nerves and gaping wounds), THE RIVER, and NEBRASKA. Does it especially > surprise me that there's not a big cross-section of people who are Wire and > Springsteen fans? No, and that's not an insult to IC'ers at all. Does > that make me any less delighted to be seeing them both this fall (Wire 9/14 > in Chicago, Bruce 11/9 in Columbus)? Nope. I'm frankly amazed that there's often *so much* unanimity about things, the obvious Tim Robinson/`Bill Hick` spat excepted. I have a sweet tooth: fundamentally I'm a late-nineties indie kid who started chasing references, looking for the bands liked by the bands I was listening to (Blur, Radiohead and REM in particular): and I wound up listening to post-punk. Doesn't mean it's all I listen to: I have several Bob Dylan albums to prove that, but yes, I like stuff which is the aural-equivalent of both candy-floss and barbed Wire. (As for Map Ref... still my favourite Wire song. It combines both, really.) (Interestingly, there's quite a few of my peers round here who like Wire, particularly the 70s stuff; it seems it becomes more, not less, relevant as time wears on.) I don't see that liking one lessens, in some way, my liking of the other. There's room enough on my shelves for both Abba and anarchy, Slint and silver-tongued snakes like Damon Albarn. I want to listen to more, and wider, things: I get bored too easily listening to music which all sounds the same. This isn't the attitude that Bill (list purist) Hick espouses, and that doesn't make either him or me right: it just makes us different, which is (IMO) a cause for celebration rather than despair. If people aren't willing to disagree about music, what's the hope of getting anywhere in a discussion about other matters of, possibly greater, importance? (Well, that was another content-free soapbox post. Pretentious brat signing off...) - - Andrew (np House of Love - Fontana, then probably Weezer - Blue Album) - -- "Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy." - R.E.M., "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" ('Monster') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 23:15:14 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Jonathon Fisk Saturdays Guardian had 'Jonathon Fisk' by Spooner as single of the week, and called it...'a credible enough compression of Roxy, T.Rex and Wire, with it's ack-ack guitarfire and sensual but urgent vocals, reminiscent of the period panache of The Strokes.' (Roxy, T.Rex and Wire? Sounds like bliss to me...) I've not heard Spooner, though from the review it sounds like they've changed as the reviewer says they were 'hitherto punk popsters from austin, Texas' and that 'mutated into something else...spouting extra musical limbs and flippers'. Out on 12XU records. Anyone heard it? Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 18:52:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: [idealcopy] The Wedding Present - --- Scott KELLOCK wrote: > From: "Scott KELLOCK" > > To: > Subject: [idealcopy] The Wedding Present > Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 22:30:18 +0100 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "idealcopy-digest" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 9:30 AM > Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #279 > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:10:11 +0100 > > From: "Gary Owens" > > Subject: [idealcopy] Meet the new starter > > I would also like to know how the wonderful > British music press, responded > to > > the 80's Wire stuff, No doubt at this time they > were falling over > themselves > > hyping bands like the Wedding Present, Mighty > Lemondrops and the myriad of > > jangly guitar bands of the time... > > Question ; When did the British music press hype The > Wedding Present??? God > I only wish they did, no other band deserved acclaim > in the 80's. They were > one of the best Live Acts around and Gedge and > Cinerama are still superb. If > the press hyped them I wonder why they didn't get > the recognition they > deserved, maybe tooooo different like Wire in 70's > and 80's. > All the best bands start with W Right. Wilco. Woy Orbison. the Wolling Stones.... wight. Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 20:56:21 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore better watch it, young man -- you're showing signs of growing up into a pathetic old git like myself, who plans to buy the new dixie chicks tuesday & who owns shania twain's latest. the horror ... dan >On Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 03:43:30PM -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >> At 04:06 PM 8/24/2002 -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >> >> >>very much echoes a conversation i had yesterday with a co-worker about >> >> springsteen << >> >> >> >> Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? I can't stand him. All >> >> the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. >> >> But wtf is he advertising? Springsteen is one of my very favorites, >> especially BORN TO RUN, DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN (my pick of 'em all, >> raw nerves and gaping wounds), THE RIVER, and NEBRASKA. Does it especially >> surprise me that there's not a big cross-section of people who are Wire and >> Springsteen fans? No, and that's not an insult to IC'ers at all. Does >> that make me any less delighted to be seeing them both this fall (Wire 9/14 >> in Chicago, Bruce 11/9 in Columbus)? Nope. > >I'm frankly amazed that there's often *so much* unanimity about things, >the obvious Tim Robinson/`Bill Hick` spat excepted. > >I have a sweet tooth: fundamentally I'm a late-nineties indie kid who >started chasing references, looking for the bands liked by the bands I >was listening to (Blur, Radiohead and REM in particular): and I wound >up listening to post-punk. Doesn't mean it's all I listen to: I have >several Bob Dylan albums to prove that, but yes, I like stuff which is >the aural-equivalent of both candy-floss and barbed Wire. > >(As for Map Ref... still my favourite Wire song. It combines both, really.) > >(Interestingly, there's quite a few of my peers round here who like Wire, > particularly the 70s stuff; it seems it becomes more, not less, relevant > as time wears on.) > >I don't see that liking one lessens, in some way, my liking of the other. >There's room enough on my shelves for both Abba and anarchy, Slint and >silver-tongued snakes like Damon Albarn. I want to listen to more, and wider, >things: I get bored too easily listening to music which all sounds the same. > >This isn't the attitude that Bill (list purist) Hick espouses, and that >doesn't make either him or me right: it just makes us different, which is >(IMO) a cause for celebration rather than despair. If people aren't >willing to disagree about music, what's the hope of getting anywhere in >a discussion about other matters of, possibly greater, importance? > >(Well, that was another content-free soapbox post. Pretentious brat signing >off...) > >- Andrew (np House of Love - Fontana, then probably Weezer - Blue Album) > >-- >"Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy." > - R.E.M., "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" ('Monster') > adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 23:59:10 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] the incomprehendable ... ... would be a good band name for (might as well slam 'em while topical) Keith Richards, Yoko Ono, Bob Dylan, & Brucey ... with special guest translators Tom Petty, John "Cougar" Mellencamp, and Ernest T Bass & The Darlin's. Actually, this bill sounds far out enough it might be worth the curiousity! wet matches don't start fires, voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 00:06:41 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] Ozfest Someone please pass the word to Ozzy about the uncomprehendables ... he might be interested ... ZZzzvvoytek ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #280 *******************************