From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #279 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, August 25 2002 Volume 05 : Number 279 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Profilez/Frank Black ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] time reflected like a whore ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Profilez/Sammy ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] Fw: Information on Scotland........ ["Keith Astbury" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 10:48:22 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez/Frank Black > dan, whose father's name was bill bailey (as in "won't you come home ...", & > also as in axl rose's real name, dammit) Incidentally, there's also a rather successful UK comedian called Bill Bailey. He's been labelled a 'new-age' comic, and verges on the surreal. Has long (but receding) hair, a beard, and a willingness to play a musical instrument at every opportunity. Didn't like him at first, but he sort of grows on you... Hope you've got a healthy Thompson Twins (Tom Bailey) collection, Dan... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 10:54:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] time reflected like a whore > I sincerely apologise to the Idealcopy massive for invoking Tim Machine. > Really I do. > > (thinks... did Crawling Keith Snake know those lyrics off by heart???) > I'm always one for a joke, but to suggest that I even own a Tin Machine record let alone know the lyrics, well....that hurts, Mark ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:10:11 +0100 From: "Gary Owens" Subject: [idealcopy] Meet the new starter hello there, i am your latest recruit.... i have lots of questions I had previously heard wire, but it was the mid 80's records that really got me into them, Ideal Copy in particular. During this period i was a short haired youth defending the West from the evils of Communism(?) and to this end was sent out to W.Germany. Whilst out there, I heard an interview on the Forces Radio station between Alan Bangs/Banks ( he of the Rockpalast show ) and Colin Newman, the same time as 'commercial suicide' was released. I seem to remember it was a great show, with music ranging from Wire to Harold Budd. An extremely long range shot in the dark, but I don't suppose anyone might know if a copy of this tape exists ? I would also like to know how the wonderful British music press, responded to the 80's Wire stuff, No doubt at this time they were falling over themselves hyping bands like the Wedding Present, Mighty Lemondrops and the myriad of jangly guitar bands of the time... There was a lot of good stuff in the 80's, but also a lot of crap... I know there has been a Joboxers revival lately, but I want to stop the Matt Bianco revival Right Now.... You can't stop the King of Pop NP 'Europe Endless' Kraftwerk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:18:28 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true) In a message dated 8/23/02 7:35:16 PM Central Daylight Time, tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: << "Laughing" Bill Hick had a pop at my fellow Aquarian dude, Mr Lynn..... >> that's ok...i chalked it up as a bad day or something...or maybe he's just in a bad mood because he has to work for a bit...either way it's ok..Bill is still my friend..why i'd even go to the store and buy tampons for him... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:28:16 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] time reflected like a whore In a message dated 8/24/02 4:46:18 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << I'm always one for a joke, but to suggest that I even own a Tin Machine record let alone know the lyrics, well....that hurts, Mark ; ) Keith >> yes...almost as much as the pain of Bill suggesting that i own a Jo Boxers record or that i believe every bumper sticker that i read... n.p.- Howard Jones "Like To Get to Know You Well" ..yet another "crappy 80's" song from the "crappy 80's record" Dream into Action ..also found in the "crappy 80's" movie: "Can't Buy Me Love"...(as well as others i'm sure)...before that i listened to Leviathon by Legion (aka Andrew Lagowski)..an ominous deep sea journey through underwater caves and cracks in the ocean floor... RL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:29:31 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Meet the new starter In a message dated 8/24/02 6:12:40 AM Central Daylight Time, trx@goatboy444.fsnet.co.uk writes: << NP 'Europe Endless' Kraftwerk >> a great morning record indeed! Welcome aboard! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 10:02:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] time reflected like a whore > >>I'm always one for a joke, but to suggest that I even own a Tin Machine > record let alone know the lyrics, well....that hurts, Mark ; )<< Just had to check. There are rules, y'know. I'm sure "ownership of album by Machine, Tin" counts as a booking, if not a straight red. Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:00:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true) - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/23/02 7:35:16 PM Central > Daylight Time, > tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: > > << "Laughing" Bill Hick had a pop at my fellow > Aquarian dude, Mr Lynn..... >> > > > that's ok...i chalked it up as a bad day or > something...or maybe he's just in > a bad mood because he has to work for a bit...either > way it's ok..Bill is > still my friend..why i'd even go to the store and > buy tampons for him... > > Robert or as my mother used to say: if whit were shit he'd be constipated (wierd word that)I'll get me loo roll.Ari ===== Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:11:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] if i'm half devil, what's the other half? - --- Ari Britt wrote: > with regard to vynil,how many of you realize that: > if you were born in '33,you'd be 45 in 78?just some > useless info,wierd though eh? > > --- Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote: > > 3 3 and a third > > > > About half the number of the Beast? 3;-) > > > > > > ack! no, really, it was just a vinyl enthusiast's > > joke > > > > -paul (vinyl vs.) c.d. > > > ===== > Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback > http://www.shriekback.com > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:48:01 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true) > Bill is still my friend..why i'd even go to the store and buy tampons for him... That young Robert is the definition of friendship! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:49:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] time reflected like a whore > Just had to check. There are rules, y'know. I'm sure "ownership of album by > Machine, Tin" counts as a booking, if not a straight red. A three match suspension at the very least I'd say... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] And out come the eyeballs.... Cool stuff popping up on the Residents site! http://www.residents.com/ Sounds like they're planning to finish their 30th year in style!!! ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 10:02:51 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] time reflected like a whore > > >>I'm always one for a joke, but to suggest that I even own a Tin Machine > > record let alone know the lyrics, well....that hurts, Mark ; )<< > > Just had to check. There are rules, y'know. I'm sure "ownership of album by > Machine, Tin" counts as a booking, if not a straight red. > I guess this means that none of you are interested in my Tin Machine "You Belong In Rock And Roll" lmited edition CD tin, or my Tin Machine "Oy vey, baby - Tin Machine Live" CD single, then. Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee.... Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 20:39:01 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez/Sammy >>>> Didn't they become Laptop? >> >> It appears so... haven't any of it yet though.<< > > Me neither. The name is a bit self-conscious. It's going to look crap in 10 > years time. As if you'd called your band "Filofax" in 1988.... LaptopDANCER on the contrary..... ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:43:59 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore In a message dated 8/24/02 7:39:24 AM GMT Daylight Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > I'm sure you understand people who loved Bowie in the 70's still being > interested in what the man comes up with nowadays. > > Bart > /////but be a bit objective about it , that was my point. its so long since he made anything worth hearing , isn't there so many more interesting people to go investigate? a couple of bowie fans i know buy everything he releases regardless and see tin machine as prime early 90's rock (but don't own a nirvana album) and see "little wonder" as a classic dance track (but don't own a single dance record of the last 20 years) . to each their own i guess....... answering my own question maybe , i saw a thing in a paper a few days ago saying all advertising aimed at "older" people is a complete waste of time as everybody's taste is fixed by the time they hit 35 and they're completely closed to new ideas. a big generalisation there i guess (but then nobody ever thinks these things apply to them ha ha ). p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:51:01 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez/Sammy have 2 ep's that have made no impression on me whatsoever, bar an extremely unamusing over of wreckless eric's whole wide world. dan >>>>> Didn't they become Laptop? >>> >>> It appears so... haven't any of it yet though.<< >> >> Me neither. The name is a bit self-conscious. It's going to look crap in 10 >> years time. As if you'd called your band "Filofax" in 1988.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:54:51 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore very much echoes a conversation i had yesterday with a co-worker about springsteen (& conversations i chronically have with a former co-worker about dylan). on the other hand, when i think of my own extant favorites these days they tend to go back to the '80s or beyond, the band to which this list is dedicated very much included (ditto for the mekons, fall, chumba, pulp, kmfdm, etc), though at least most if not all tend to seriously overhaul their sound every album or 2. dan >In a message dated 8/24/02 7:39:24 AM GMT Daylight Time, bartvandamme@home.nl >writes: > > >> I'm sure you understand people who loved Bowie in the 70's still being >> interested in what the man comes up with nowadays. >> >> Bart >> > >/////but be a bit objective about it , that was my point. its so long since >he made anything worth hearing , isn't there so many more interesting people >to go investigate? a couple of bowie fans i know buy everything he releases >regardless and see tin machine as prime early 90's rock (but don't own a >nirvana album) and see "little wonder" as a classic dance track (but don't >own a single dance record of the last 20 years) . to each their own i >guess....... > >answering my own question maybe , i saw a thing in a paper a few days ago >saying all advertising aimed at "older" people is a complete waste of time as >everybody's taste is fixed by the time they hit 35 and they're completely >closed to new ideas. a big generalisation there i guess (but then nobody ever >thinks these things apply to them ha ha ). p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:59:09 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez/Frank Black >> dan, whose father's name was bill bailey (as in "won't you come home ...", >& >> also as in axl rose's real name, dammit) > >Incidentally, there's also a rather successful UK comedian called Bill >Bailey. He's been labelled a 'new-age' comic, and verges on the surreal. Has >long (but receding) hair, a beard, and a willingness to play a musical >instrument at every opportunity. Didn't like him at first, but he sort of >grows on you... which certain friends of mine might well say about me as well ... > >Hope you've got a healthy Thompson Twins (Tom Bailey) collection, Dan... at least 3 lp's, i think (haven't yet alphabetized the vinyl the way i finally got around to doing my cd's ... maybe the rest of this weekend ...). plus at least one earth wind & fire (philip bailey, if memory serves). dan > >Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:19:17 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true) i realize this pissing match didn't involve me (though i do belong squarely in both the afos/elo-weren't-bad-at-all *and* the first-generation-anarcho-alumni camps), but i must admit that my insatiable sweet tooth for a pop song has kept virtually all of the following out of my interest range. do like erase errata's cd, though (but would rate the subtonix' effort slightly above it, at least until i decide to listen to them back-to-back). have to say that the smidgen of pretty girls make graves i asked to hear at a shop back home didn't do a thing for me (my interest was piqued by the murder city devils connection -- easily one of my favorite "new" bands of recent years till their unfortunate demise). also, while i rank leatherface's mush as one of the best albums of the '90s (cherry knowle is pretty decent, too ... have never been able to find fill yer boots & foolishly passed up on a chance to pick up a singles comp, though for all i know it's still in print), nothing they've done since then has stuck with me *at all*, including the recent comeback half- & full cd's. anyone have any idea of whether the frankie stubbs one-shot tracks (band may've been called pope) tucked on the end of the recent reissue of the last make its purchase worthwhile, insofar as i bought the original at twice the price (as an import, of course) way back when? dan, owner of a joboxers lp but far more interested in when/whether oi polloi &/or rudimentary peni will release another one, & whose favorite extant "punk" acts would probably include the swingin' utters, l.e.s. stitches, rancid (though i've barely listened to the last 2), the strike (if they're still around -- must check with a friend who accompanied them on a tour a few years ago), hudson falcons (note to self: pick up the new one), the bomb (ditto -- former naked raygun singer's band), pegboy (dunno about their current status, either ... pretty much the rest of naked raygun), dillinger four, beltones, bellrays & discount (ok, so they've broken up ... great billy bragg covers ep, though), among others. > >Melt Banana >Ex Girl >Seein' Red >Driven Down >This Ain't Vegas >Bilge Pump >Redbank >Leatherface >Valerie >Noxagt >Oxes >Cat On Form >The Locust >Flux Information Sciences >The Green Acre >Erase Errata >The Now Denial >Drill For Absentee >Kling Klang >Gaji >Selah >Voorhees >Los Crudos >Econoline >Shikari >Pines of Nowhere >GoGoGo Airheart >Redneck Manifesto >Trans Element >Desolation Angels >Jackie O >Retisonic >Replicator >J*R >Ink >El Guapo >Q and Not U >Kill Yourself >And None of Them Knew They Were Robots >Wolves of Greece >Solway Fifth >Twelve Hour Turn >Dillinger Escape Plan >Phantomsmasher >Pretty Girls Make Graves >Polaris >Nought >Beecher >From Safety to Where? > >Presumably you must've heard a fair few contemporary 'punk' bands to come to >the conclusion that they suck? > >Not a patch on crap 80s rejects in bargain bins, I'm sure. > >Could someone burn me a Jo Boxers CD-R? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:03:49 +0100 From: "Mark Short" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Meet the new starter > I would also like to know how the wonderful British music press, responded to > the 80's Wire stuff, No doubt at this time they were falling over themselves > hyping bands like the Wedding Present, Mighty Lemondrops and the myriad of > jangly guitar bands of the time... > Manscape only got a brief review in the NME. From what I recall, the review was fairly dismissive, but did make the point that Wire's lyrics made Leonard Cohen's seem like Enid Blyton. Mark S ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:06:14 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore > >>very much echoes a conversation i had yesterday with a co-worker about > springsteen << > > Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? I can't stand him. All > the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. > > (yes, I know he does downbeat acoustic stuff too - better but still leaves > me cold.) > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:46:10 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore actually, yeah, i do, esp. the (admitted blushingly) born in the usa-era stuff. also certain songs since then, esp. philadelphia. of course, we've already established that my tastes are, at best, schizophrenic. dan >> >>very much echoes a conversation i had yesterday with a co-worker about >> springsteen << >> >> Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? I can't stand him. All >> the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. >> >> (yes, I know he does downbeat acoustic stuff too - better but still leaves >> me cold.) >> >> Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:40:43 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore > /////but be a bit objective about it , that was my point. its so long since > he made anything worth hearing Totally disagree with you there Paul!!! I'd liked Bowie since John I'm Only Dancing (didn't like Starman that much at the time - the shame!), though I used to have a bit of a downer on him because he got credit for stuff that I felt he'd ripped off his mate Marc. So although I had a healthy collection of 70's Bowie albums, I certainly wasn't the biggest DB fan in the world. BUT...Hunky Dory, Station to Station, Low and Heroes, to mention a few, are GREAT albums by any standards. (Aside...Personally I think Ziggy is totally over-rated. One of my least fave 70's Bowie albums....) Unfortunately Bowie just seemed to lose it at some point in the 80's, and though I bought the odd 45, I honestly didn't expect to buy another DB album ever again. As Tim said... > Why shouldn't we spout ill-informed, dubious rants and theories? So here's one of mine that was *way* off kilter. > Why shouldn't we spout ill-informed, dubious rants and theories? I thought Tin Machine was a good idea on paper. That's right...I thought Tin Machine was a good idea on paper. I'd seem him with the La La Steps (or whatever they were called!) on the telly (ICA aniversary), doing a loud thrashy version of Look Back in Anger a couple of yrs before, and it was great. I certainly thought it would be a good direction for him to go in. Whooooooops..... And unfortunately, so did he... But I think Bowie had a very respectable 90's. He might have taken care of his finacial needs with his Bowie bonds, but he didn't exactly seemed arsed about selling lots of records. 1. Outside, for example, isn't a particularly commercial album. > isn't there so many more interesting people to go investigate? Not really no... > a couple of bowie fans i know buy everything he releases > regardless and see tin machine as prime early 90's rock (but don't own a > nirvana album) and see "little wonder" as a classic dance track (but don't > own a single dance record of the last 20 years) . to each their own i > guess....... I know what you're saying. If DB's doing it then it's OK. Otherwise...that's the 'sad' side of being a fan that I suspect a lot of us are susceptible to. Hands up who would have bought that Erasure single if Wir weren't involved! > answering my own question maybe , i saw a thing in a paper a few days ago > saying all advertising aimed at "older" people is a complete waste of time as > everybody's taste is fixed by the time they hit 35 and they're completely > closed to new ideas. a big generalisation there i guess (but then nobody ever > thinks these things apply to them ha ha ). p talking of age, someone told me the other day that the reason I didn't like Travis was because I was "too old". As this was a 30 yr old as opposed to an 18 yr old, I would normally have been quite depressed about being called "too old" for anything. But how can *anyone* be too old for Travis! If their records were any more polite, they'd be shaking hands with the Queen... Keith NP a King Tubby compilation ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:51:16 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore > Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? I can't stand him. All > the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. Liked Born To Run a lot when I was 16. (And still did last time I heard it). Not liked much since mind...(*Hated* Born in the USA!) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:01:22 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore In a message dated 8/24/02 9:31:45 PM GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > > /////but be a bit objective about it , that was my point. its so long > since > > he made anything worth hearing > > Totally disagree with you there Paul!!! ////not disputing some of the 70's stuff was great at all. i'd say the last bearable one was "scary monsters". so "so long" = about 22 years. p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:05:37 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Meet the new starter In a message dated 8/24/02 9:05:07 PM GMT Daylight Time, mshort@freeuk.com writes: > > I would also like to know how the wonderful British music press, responded > to > > the 80's Wire stuff, No doubt at this time they were falling over > themselves > > hyping bands like the Wedding Present, Mighty Lemondrops and the myriad > of > > jangly guitar bands of the time... /////i think ideal copy / ABIAC were basically pretty well recieved as i recall. mixed reviews for IBTABA and manscape and then very little coverage for first letter. but they did a lot of press so they had a fairly high profile 86-90. got a load of cuttings somewhere.........p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 15:34:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore - --- dan bailey wrote: > actually, yeah, i do, esp. the (admitted blushingly) > born in the usa-era > stuff. also certain songs since then, esp. > philadelphia. > > of course, we've already established that my tastes > are, at best, > schizophrenic. > > dan How do you both feel about that?Ari > > > >> >>very much echoes a conversation i had yesterday > with a co-worker about > >> springsteen << > >> > >> Does anyone here actually like Bruce Springsteen? > I can't stand him. All > >> the subtlety of a Gillette Razor ad. > >> > >> (yes, I know he does downbeat acoustic stuff too > - better but still > leaves > >> me cold.) > >> > >> Mark ===== Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 01:04:20 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez/Sammy Sammy or Filofax, Dan? Bart > have 2 ep's that have made no impression on me whatsoever, bar an extremely > unamusing over of wreckless eric's whole wide world. > > dan > > >>>>>> Didn't they become Laptop? >>>> >>>> It appears so... haven't any of it yet though.<< >>> >>> Me neither. The name is a bit self-conscious. It's going to look crap in > 10 >>> years time. As if you'd called your band "Filofax" in 1988.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:27:06 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Fw: Information on Scotland........ > People who are in love with Arran seem to rate this site quite highly apparently. > > http://www.hughspicer.fsnet.co.uk/frame.htm This is a Scottish walking/climbing site, but Nirvana fans *may* want to hear a rather ridiculous cover.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:43:14 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: time reflected like a whore >> I'd liked Bowie since John I'm Only Dancing (didn't like Starman that much at the time - the shame!),<< Wow! Starman on TOTO was one of the most astonishing TV moments of all time. Circa 73 Starman & JIOD were undoubtedly my two favourite singles. > >>because he got credit for stuff that I felt he'd ripped off his mate Marc. > So although I had a healthy collection of 70's Bowie albums, I certainly > wasn't the biggest DB fan in the world.<< Whereas for me Bolan lost the plot pretty early on (Truck on Tyke being a very lame single comapred to what went before) though rising from the ground on a star with light bulbs round it (Teenage Dream) was pretty good as TOTO moments went! > >>BUT...Hunky Dory, Station to Station, Low and Heroes, to mention a few, > are > GREAT albums by any standards. > > (Aside...Personally I think Ziggy is totally over-rated. One of my least > fave 70's Bowie albums....)<< Heresy! Mind you it was the first album I bought so it's bound to be a bit special. But it's only matched by Low IMO. > >>Unfortunately Bowie just seemed to lose it at some point in the 80's, << He lost it when he tunred up a Victoria station sieg heiling. Don't much care for Lodger to be honest. So he probably lost it before the 80s. (I know, Ashes to Ashes is a great pop single - in a knowing, self-referential way) >>> though I bought the odd 45, I honestly didn't expect to buy another DB > album > ever again.<< Quarter of a century since I last bought a "new" DB release.... > >>I thought Tin Machine was a good idea on paper.<< That's as may be. But it sounded shite. > >>But I think Bowie had a very respectable 90's. He might have taken care of > his finacial needs with his Bowie bonds, but he didn't exactly seemed arsed > about selling lots of records. 1. Outside, for example, isn't a > particularly > commercial album.<< Therein lies the problem. He's TRYING to be left-field, which adds to the comical nature of his efforts. Trying to be up with whatever the latest sound is. Whereas in the 70s HE was the latest sound. > > isn't there so many more interesting people to go investigate? > > Not really no...<< Oh come on. Notwithstanding new bands (of which there are plenty of recommendations here) there is sooooo much stuff made over tha past 4 decades left undiscovered or half-forgotten.... all of it better than Tin Machine :-) > >> a couple of bowie fans i know buy everything he releases > > regardless and see tin machine as prime early 90's rock (but don't own a > > nirvana album) and see "little wonder" as a classic dance track (but > don't > > own a single dance record of the last 20 years) . to each their own i > > guess....... > > I know what you're saying. If DB's doing it then it's OK. > Otherwise...that's > the 'sad' side of being a fan that I suspect a lot of us are susceptible > to. > Hands up who would have bought that Erasure single if Wir weren't involved!< > < Diffrence is that Wire disappoint so rarely. Anything that has their involvement tends to be good - at the very least. > >>talking of age, someone told me the other day that the reason I didn't > like > Travis was because I was "too old". > > As this was a 30 yr old as opposed to an 18 yr old, I would normally have > been quite depressed about being called "too old" for anything. But how can > *anyone* be too old for Travis! If their records were any more polite, > they'd be shaking hands with the Queen...<< I hope you treated the individual concerned with the requisite contempt. Mind you, Travis are way preerable to many of the other turgid heaps of shite out there. Coldplay, Staraialor and Stereophonics are all significantly worse IMO. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 02:55:00 +0100 From: Nik Subject: Re: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit! In message <20020823231841.GE50496@colon.colondot.net>, Andrew Walkingshaw writes >> > WHY is alcohol great? It's a drug, much like many of the others, and in >> > most cases about as destructive. Couldn't agree with you more. >> > >On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 07:02:16PM +0100, Bob Swan wrote: >> It's only destructive if abused / over-used. Exactly what the industry says, and what a big and lucrative industry it is. Alcohol also continues to be a nice and reliable money-maker for governments the world over. Booze and television programmes like Big Brother or these hideous soaps have a lot in common for me: they're about keeping consumers hooked and tame. The more 'enlightened' users buy into the glamour aspect: you may not be able to write like a young Hemingway, but you sure can drink like him and attribute the lack of creative output to hangover after hangover. > >Precisely. The thing is that there is much less in the way of a cultural >taboo about alcohol-induced behaviour than about that induced by other >drugs: Maybe it's tolerated because people who misbehave during a weekend binge are likely to be nicely hung over and ashamed on Monday, eager to make up for it by being even more efficient workers and consumers. >as such, there's less honesty about alcoholism than other forms >of drug addiction, and less awareness of the effects it can have on >those who have to deal with the addicted person. The income for governments from tax on alcohol must surely outweigh the strain on the health services caused by people suffering from alcoholism or alcohol-related illnesses. > >> Nothing wrong with a social >> drink or three - even medical science now admits that regular consumption in >> small quantities can have a beneficial effect on health. A social drink. As if we're unable to socialise without the stuff. The hypocrisy: you're supposed to be able to hold your liquor while knowing when to stop. You can't stay sober when everybody around you gets sloshed. Spoilsport. Square. It's OK to drown your sorrows, but please don't turn into a wino on welfare. > >"Everything in moderation", yes: people want to escape from reality, and >in some cases alcohol or other drugs is one of the escape routes. Add to this: shy, awkward people using booze to come out of their shells. Or to explore depths of feelings they think they cannot access by other means. Very addictive. I practised this mature form of self- development for 18 years. Not recommended. >I don't drink because I, if I'm going to be honest, know I would have a >somewhat elevated risk of dependency: and that's a chance I don't want to >take, and something I don't want to subject the people around me to. You are indeed a young man of great wisdom :) > >For the vast majority of people, this probably isn't the case: and I'm not >about to tell any of you to stop drinking. By all means, no. If all regular users of alcohol were to experience the exhilarating happiness that goes along with refusing to subject their bodies and souls to the stuff, who knows what kind of society we'd end up with. > >Ever the idealist, I guess. :) Yeah, get lost. I bet you enjoy your work, too! > >- Andrew > Nik signing off on an on topic note: thanks for mentioning the availability of Read & Burn at the HMV in Lion Yard! Got my copy from there a few weeks ago. Completely agree with the many positive reviews. Would like to add: Colin did a brilliant job with the production. Blurring the differences between two very distinctive vocalists for the sake of coherence: how bold, how elegant, how likeable. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 02:34:25 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez/Sammy laptop ... >Sammy or Filofax, Dan? > >Bart > > >> have 2 ep's that have made no impression on me whatsoever, bar an extremely >> unamusing over of wreckless eric's whole wide world. >> >> dan >> >> >>>>>>> Didn't they become Laptop? >>>>> >>>>> It appears so... haven't any of it yet though.<< >>>> >>>> Me neither. The name is a bit self-conscious. It's going to look crap in >> 10 >>>> years time. As if you'd called your band "Filofax" in 1988.... ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #279 *******************************