From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest)
To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org
Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #276
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idealcopy-digest        Friday, August 23 2002        Volume 05 : Number 276



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true)  [RL]
  [idealcopy] the Talons of Weng Chieng        [jez <jla.stevens@virgin.net>]
  Re: [idealcopy] the Talons of Weng Chieng  [Ari Britt <luvjazzz@yahoo.com>]
  Re: [idealcopy] Peel session...                         [MarkBursa@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs                          [MarkBursa@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true)  [Ma]
  Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs             [Ari Britt <luvjazzz@yahoo.com>]
  RE: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be t rue)  [P]
  Re: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit!  ["Tim" <tim@kidsindestructible]
  Re: [idealcopy] Profilez                               [Eardrumbuz@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] Profilez                               [Eardrumbuz@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true)  [Ea]
  Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs                          [CHRISWIRE@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs  [Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire@lexical.o]
  Re: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit!  [Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wi]
  Re: [idealcopy] Profilez                                [MarkBursa@aol.com]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:30:35 EDT
From: RLynn9@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true)

In a message dated 8/22/02 1:23:11 PM Central Daylight Time, 
umur_ot@hotmail.com writes:

<< Not a patch on crap 80s rejects in bargain bins, I'm sure.
  >>


i find it a bit funny that you insist on painting me as someone who only 
listens to "crap" 80's music.....especially since i ask you questions all the 
time about new and modern music.....i don't regularly post lists of all the 
shows i go to or new music i have been listening to.. but with a tight budget 
i manage to do ok...in the past month i have managed to make listening time 
for: 

Nurse With Wound - Man With the Woman Face
Nurse With Wound - Salt
Current 93/Nurse With Wound - Bright Yellow Moon
Jim O'Rourke - I'm Happy, I'm Singing, 1,2,3,4
Fennesz/O'Rourke/Rehberg - The Return of FennO'Berg
Merzbow - A Taste of Merzbow
John Zorn - IAO
GCTTCTT - AmpErase
Coil - The Remote Viewer
Astrobotnia - 1 & 3
Autechre - Ganz Graf
Philip Jeck - Stoke
Biosphere - Shenzhou
Global Goon - Vatican Nitez
CM Von Hausswolff - Rays of Beauty

and much more.....no where near as much listening/discovering as you, but i 
try....i only have from 6pm to midnight as free time..and sometimes not even 
that much...especially when i am out trawling the bargain bins for crap 80's 
records...

RL

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:18:00 +0100
From: jez <jla.stevens@virgin.net>
Subject: [idealcopy] the Talons of Weng Chieng

<Between shows at the theatre, Casey emerges from the cellar, where he was
fixing the trap door used in Chang's magic act. Jago asks if he has the
ooperzootics coming on. This is an archaic slang word for an unspecified
complaint. Casey tells Jago he's seen a 9-foot tall skull and heard clanking
chains. To calm him, Jago promises to accompany Casey for a look around
after the last performance later. >

Any other occurences out there?




Jez

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ari Britt <luvjazzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the Talons of Weng Chieng

- --- jez <jla.stevens@virgin.net> wrote:
> <Between shows at the theatre, Casey emerges from
> the cellar, where he was
> fixing the trap door used in Chang's magic act. Jago
> asks if he has the
> ooperzootics coming on. This is an archaic slang
> word for an unspecified
> complaint. Casey tells Jago he's seen a 9-foot tall
> skull and heard clanking
> chains. To calm him, Jago promises to accompany
> Casey for a look around
> after the last performance later. >
> 
> Any other occurences out there?
Billions of 'em.take a look see.-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jez


=====
Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:51:15 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Peel session...

> >>Thought you wuz Mr Keith Death Cult from now on...8-]
> maybe not<<

No, he's Crawling Keith Snake...

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:59:00 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs

Andrew,

>>25th October, 1980: Scorpio on the cusp of Libra, apparently.<<

Now you've done it.

The day you were born I had three days of my teenage years left.

Bastard.

Yep, October 28, 1960. People born on October 28 have heads full of Wire 
trivia. I know this to be true, as I share my b'day with Mr K Eden of this 
parish. Though he is far, far older than me :-)

I spent my 20th birthday watching Teardrop Explodes at Leicester Uni BTW, a 
gig where they split up on stage. But not for long, as I saw them a gain a 
couple of weeks later.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:05:27 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true)

>>Pretty Girls Make Graves

From Safety to Where?<<

Oi!!! New bands!!! NO!!!!!!

Stop naming yourselves after old obsucre Smiths & JD songs.

Now.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:09:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ari Britt <luvjazzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs

- --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote:
> Andrew,
> 
> >>25th October, 1980: Scorpio on the cusp of Libra,
> apparently.<<
> 
> Now you've done it.
> 
> The day you were born I had three days of my teenage
> years left.
> 
> Bastard.
> 
> Yep, October 28, 1960. People born on October 28
> have heads full of Wire 
> trivia. I know this to be true, as I share my b'day
> with Mr K Eden of this 
> parish. Though he is far, far older than me :-)
> 
> I spent my 20th birthday watching Teardrop Explodes
> at Leicester Uni BTW, a 
> gig where they split up on stage. But not for long,
> as I saw them a gain a 
> couple of weeks later.
> 
> Mark
when YOU wuz born I was 17 years and six weeks old
exactly.Bastard indeed.Ari


=====
Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:13:58 -0700
From: Paul Pietromonaco <paulp@wrq.com>
Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be t rue)

>Stop naming yourselves after old obsucre Smiths & JD songs.
>
>Now.
>

At least they're not picking names like "Hand in Glove" or "Vicar In A
Tutu"....

(^_^)

Cheers,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:16:41 +0100
From: "Tim" <tim@kidsindestructible.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit!

Here we go again.

>
> I'd rather
>  > >hear their stories then try and re-enact it all...Sealed Knot stylie
>
> What is Sealed Knot?

Its those guys who turn up at Country Fairs, Village Fetes etc, and re-enact
famous battles in period costume.
I've never been to one. I read about it in a glossy monthly from my 70s
style batchelor pad.

> This comment pretty much sums up yr fusty early70s popbore mentality.

In that case William, you are a self-righteous, anorak-fixated music snob of
the highest order.
I prefer your cousin, Graeme Rowland. I wonder what happened to him?

You
> wouldn't know the sun was out unless you read about it in some monthly
> magazine.

I presume this a feeble attempt at humour.


>
> Some bands (such as Strapons) seem obviously retrogressive and up for
> re-enacting something or other. Many, many others are doing things which
are
> really quite different.
>
> What are Melt Banana re-enacting exactly?

I've no idea. And the fact that you even have heard of a band called The
Strapons means that we really are living in different worlds, but lets have
big fight about it anyway cos its fun.


> In comparison a band like the Coral must seem so fresh new and exciting.
But
> I wouldn't know as I'm not interested in listening to bland soft rock in
> 2002.

Nah, you're missing the point. The Coral are teenage lads from The Wirral
and they sound so retro its kind of off the scale so that it becomes
something new. They are ridiculous and confusing. I like that.

>
>  > >My Punk Rock world begins and ends with Pink Flag...
>
> White Music by XTC doesn't count then?


No. My XTC collection starts with Drums and Wires. But XTC were never really
really punk.
 OK, I admit I've also got  Clash and Stranglers Best Of's somewhere.
This hardly makes me a fully paid-up AnarchoVeganEMOPunk does it?



>  > >
>  > >And besides, I wouldn't want Cider and gob all over my nice clean
suit.
>  > >
>
> I've never actually seen anyone gob at anyone at a punk or hardcore gig
> ever. That stopped happening ages ago, which just goes to show how out of
> touch you are.

Er....I was joking there.

Bill, do you actually have any concept of sarcasm, irony...or indeed humour?



>
> (Tired of fucking phonies)

I'm not a phony. I really am real! and I really am taking the piss out of
you and you don't seem to realise it!
Do you really take yourself as seriously as you seem to on this list?


> Its not about being a "punk".
> Its about doing things yourself and not waiting to be force fed bland
> entertainment.

Bill, I choose what I want to hear, read, watch.

Who are these poor souls that are force-fed media? Are they strapped to a TV
with their eyelids pinned open? Have they not realised that you can tune a
radio to a pirate station? have they not heard of the internet?


>
> Its happening without yr permission

HAHAHAHAHA!

> Its happening without yr involvement

Good. I don't want to be involved! Please carry on without me.

>
> Do yr own thing and stop bitching
> Or just carry on making a bigger jackass of yrself

I do my own thing!
I only bitch cos its fun, and you're so easy to wind up. You know I'm only
taking the piss?
Or are you so up your own arse you can't laugh at yourself?



>
>  >>Invent something new.
>  > >
>
> Like yr band?
> Didn't seem very 'new' to me, but maybe you've progressed since covering
> 'Frosty the Snowman'?

Course we have, but you would't like it because its electronic POP!

In fact, the fact that you don't like  is a compliment!
I'll send you a copy of our next record and feel free to slag us off.


> But there are very good reasons why some gigs are not publicised beyond
word
> of mouth which have nothing to do with trying to keep them secret.

What are the reasons?



> My contract would allow me unlimited funding to do whatever I liked with
no
> obligation to actually make any records or play any gigs. Everyone should
> have such a contract.

No they shouldn't!!!!!!

Kevin Sheilds has such a contract with Island Records.
He has done bugger all apart from a few remixes and playing gigs with Primal
Scream.

His talent has gone to waste because no-one is driving him. Are you thick
Bill? A lot of Musicians need deadlines, pressure, hassle otherwise they
don't make records because most of them are lazy, egotistical bastards who
would rather sleep all day and do drugs all night than make records.

>
> WIRE are often beyond.

WIRE are beyond, and they are better than anything you or I can do.


>
> A lot of people at punk/emo/HC gigs don't drink alcohol.

Why not? Its great!


> Why do you assume that people are wearing trousers to these gigs?
>
> The drummer from ANOTKTWRobots wasn't wearing anything last week.

How very unpleasant.

>
> Colin, at least, seems quite keen to ally WIRE to Liars and this 'Future
> Rock'n'Roll' / Sonic Mook thing. Can't say I find much on that compilation
> to get excited about, aside from Liars and 2nd Gen and possibly Ikara
Colt,
> but even though a lot of it sounds like toytown electro-punk irritant
mixed
> up with slightly more exciting but rather dated rock'n'roll (Beatings,
Buff
> Medways), I'm sure its more

Hmm.
Wire shouldn't need to ally with anything. They should be an ally in exile.




>  > >Never mind, here comes the new wave of
>  > >nu-electronic-mindfuck-droogmongerdelic-spazrock. Grrrreat.
>
> sounds much more exciting than this fuckin' Coral thing.

Yeah it does actually. I hope one day I can make a record for which that can
be the only possible description.



>  > >
>  > >> >>>It was fast, loud, angry and DIY.
>  > >>
>  > >>So is a drunk truck driver with a drill
>  > >
>  > >And if he did a gig, you'd be in the front row dude!
>
> And if he played before your band, lots of people would probably watch it
> and then largely ignore your dated technoid dabblings, and you'd have a
big
> sulk about it later especially if you'd had to play after a sprawling
> progrock group who also got more attention.

Dated technoid dabblings?!!!

I assume you are referring back to the last gig you saw which was the
christmas before last.

Firstly Bill, we couldn't give a shit what  Manc audiences think of us
because we are from YORKSHIRE.
Secondly, we got a very good review for the 5 minute performance we played.

Third. While you are busy not making any 'irregular' fanzines, we are busy
writing music.

Don't knock people who make stuff if you make fuck all yourself.


> (Thats right I'm tired of you)

Aw. I'm not tired of you. I like arguing with you!





"I'll have Two Kit-Kats and a Motoring Atlas...and a Blue CD on the Hallmark
Label...Thats sure to be good"
Half Man Half Biscuit.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:20:42 EDT
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez

In a message dated 8/22/02 5:04:25 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes:

<< May 29th, first heard Pink Flag early 1978 [I'm actually hearing it right
now!]
With EardrumPaul, Giluz & myself makes 4 mac users... or am I forgetting
someone? >>

dunno bart. macusers speak up and be heard! i am absolutely loving os x. a 
bit tricky shifting things between 9, x, and the classic environment (which i 
now try to stay out of), but this imac rocks! anyway, i'm pisces (3/3)...say, 
it may not be the 15th, but being born at 8 a.m. would make my actual time of 
birth 3 3 and a third...a bit of a stretch, eh? heard chairs missing first 
(around 1981 i think). snakedrill is the one that really got me um, connected 
to wire  :o\

i'll get me coat

wait, it's drizzling, i'll get me mac instead :o)

- -paul (did i mention i got my ticket for irving plaza?) c.d.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:40:20 EDT
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez

In a message dated 8/22/02 5:09:30 AM, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes:

<< 
Anyone heard any interesting new music lately? :) >>

i heard some of the new interpol stuff. i like it better than the e.p., and i 
heard a live song that sounded even better. i now remember someone telling me 
they're better live than on record (cd).

i heard a piano version of alone by this mortal coil. instrumental, and nice. 
i only have the vocal full band version on the second album...which of course 
is excellent. so, how is fischerspooner doing with the 15th? it's not on 
their website anymore. any other good colin cover songs out there i should 
know about?

i heard blonde redhead for the first time recently, and i'm really enjoying 
them. man, i can't believe i never got into them before.

i'm still enjoying the new one from mum (if i type the accent on the e it'll 
show up as a z). they've got something real magical going on.

i also heard a new one by frank black and the catholics that took me by 
surprise. i did not recognize "frank's" voice while i was enjoying the song. 
when the dj announced it i thought to myself that i should give the man 
another try. gotta hear some more. teenager of the year was the last thing i 
got by him.

do you have another opinion?

- -another the paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:52:08 EDT
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true)

In a message dated 8/22/02 2:23:11 PM, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes:

<< 
Retisonic >>

joe from garden variety is in this band. he's a friend of my bro. they have a 
nice looking web site (in the verrrry early construction stage, but still 
worth visiting). incidentally, they're touring europe soon.

sorry if that was nothing more than a plug, but...what the hey

- -paul c.d.

n.p. a recording i made with my new imac and scissors

p.s. no macs were harmed in the making of the above mentioned recording  :o)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:36:33 EDT
From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs

In a message dated 23/08/2002 01:59:22 GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com 
writes:


> Yep, October 28, 1960. People born on October 28 have heads full of Wire 
> trivia. I know this to be true, as I share my b'day with Mr K Eden of this 
> parish. Though he is far, far older than me :-)
> 

I'm sure this has all passed before us once before.Scorpio too & 29th October 
to boot.A mere 42 at present & like fine wine etc.....
        Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:59:15 +0100
From: Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs

On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 08:59:00PM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote:
> Andrew,
> 
> >>25th October, 1980: Scorpio on the cusp of Libra, apparently.<<
> 
> Now you've done it.
> 
> The day you were born I had three days of my teenage years left.
> 
> Bastard.


Look, I'm *sorry*, OK? Blame my parents. :)

Seriously, I find it odd that half of my favourite music was created in the
three years before I was born.

However: remember, I was born under Maggie Thatcher's government. It's
not *all* good. (Is it any bloody wonder my generation[1] are so disillusioned
with the political process, having known Thatcher, Major and Blair?

- - Andrew

[1] f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-faaaaaaade awaaaaay.... :)
- -- 
adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:10:20 +0100
From: Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit!

On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 03:16:41AM +0100, Tim wrote:

> > A lot of people at punk/emo/HC gigs don't drink alcohol.
> 
> Why not? Its great!
> 

I'm going to regret this post, I can tell. Apologies in advance.

WHY is alcohol great? It's a drug, much like many of the others, and in
most cases about as destructive. 

This, I believe, was the origin of what evolved into the (frankly
quite scary) straight-edge scene, as created/glamourised by Minor
Threat's song of the same name. Of course, Ian MacKaye then went on
to Rites of Spring (one of the first bands to be described as "emo" or
"emocore"), and then Fugazi.

(If this is wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. Feel free.)

However, I don't touch alcohol. Haven't for about two years. (For the USians:
the legal drinking age in the UK is 18.) Why? Because once you've seen
someone close to you attempt to drink themselves into an early grave[1] 
over a period of ten years or more, eventually you wake up and realise
that a) it's not very fun, really, is it?
     b) given inherited traits, you're at substantial risk yourself

and it rather loses its savour. Alcohol may well be fun for you: so might
shooting smack. To be honest, I don't see any moral difference between
the two, other than in terms of severity: they're both drugs, and they
both regularly fuck up the lives of the people taking them and, *more*
importantly, the people around them. If people want to take them, fine:
as long as you're not harming those around you by doing so.

The glamourisation of alcohol is something I'm afraid I find very hard to
let pass unanswered.

- - Andrew

[1] A parent, that's all I'm saying.

- -- 
"And you see, I kind of shivered to conformity,
 Did you see the way I cowered to authority?"
  - Mansun, "Six" ('Six')
 adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 04:24:45 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez

>>i heard some of the new interpol stuff. i like it better than the e.p., and 
i 
heard a live song that sounded even better. i now remember someone telling me 

they're better live than on record (cd).<<

Having seen 'em last night I can testify that they are indeed a fine live 
band. Elegant New York nu-Factory. Retro as fuck, but in a good way.

On a similar tip (and I know I've mentioned 'em before) I'd also recommend 
British Sea Power. 

>>i heard a piano version of alone by this mortal coil. <<

Alone (on piano) is by Colin Newman, not TMC. It's the B-side of the 
Inventory 7in.

Mark

------------------------------

End of idealcopy-digest V5 #276
*******************************