From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #275 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, August 22 2002 Volume 05 : Number 275 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] peel / tour [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Profilez [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Profilez [Andrew Walkingshaw ] [idealcopy] way o.t. [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Peel session... ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Peel session... ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Soft Cell Best Of Question [RLynn9@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] Peel session... [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Profilez ["dan bailey" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs ["John Roberts" ] Re: [idealcopy] St Arkansas [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] St Arkansas ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true) ["Bill ] [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit! ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true) [RL] [idealcopy] appropriate question for today [RLynn9@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:53:25 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] peel / tour >>> The Belgian is the dead guy with the bottle of Genever clutched to his >>> chest and the Dutch guy is the one nicking it. > Typical. Now if it were a Grolsch Kanon I WOULD be tempted... >> I'd never... honest! I shift the blame... ;-P >> [Canadian saying?] > Ha ! Tell us another one Brrt. > We have your number! Mum's ze word eh... *glug* *glug* *glug* Brrt [aaaah...] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:04:11 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez May 29th, first heard Pink Flag early 1978 [I'm actually hearing it right now!] With EardrumPaul, Giluz & myself makes 4 mac users... or am I forgetting someone? Bart >>> the 17th is the day AFTER my birthday Dan,how many >>> other virgo's on the site?Ari > me. september five. (i'm also a mac user, and i heard eighties wire first.) > > can't recall the other questions put to the list at various times. is anyone > compiling a profile (or profiles) of idealcopyists? > kristoph ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:09:08 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 11:04:11AM +0200, Bart van Damme wrote: > May 29th, first heard Pink Flag early 1978 [I'm actually hearing it right > now!] > With EardrumPaul, Giluz & myself makes 4 mac users... or am I forgetting > someone? I'd be more interested to know the number of Unix users. :) As far as OS bigotry goes, I have one system booting win2k, my laptop dualboots win2k and Debian Linux, and my dual-processor Celeron runs Linux. At work, I'm administering Digital Unix, Linux, and Irix (Silicon Graphics) machines at present. Windows machines are such a *pain* to administer in a multi-user context. Anyway. Anyone heard any interesting new music lately? :) - -- "Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy." - R.E.M., "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" ('Monster') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:52:14 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] way o.t. 'homeland security' http://www.notbored.org/ later A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:08:54 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Peel session... for awhile there while i was working in little rock, i sat beside 2 copy editors, in front of the asst state editor, behind the state editor & a few feet from a reporter -- all born 9/15 (same year as well for the state editor & his asst). so was the obit clerk from downstairs. it's enough to make you think that something, oh, of a conjugal nature goes on every mid-december or so ... dan >the 17th is the day AFTER my birthday Dan,how many >other virgo's on the site?Ari >--- dan bailey wrote: >> aw, gee -- right on my birthday. though with any >> luck i'll be seeing pere >> ubu in nashville either that day or back home in >> arkansas the day after ... >> still, the gesture is certainly the most magnanimous >> one any band has made >> since the cure played new orleans, outside which i >> was then living, on my >> 30th back in '89. >> >> dan >> >> >> >...will be broadcast on September 17, quoth >> posteverything.com. >> > >> >R&B2 "very soon", it adds mysteriously... >> > >> >Watch out! >> > >> >Mark > > >===== >Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com >HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs >http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:26:57 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Peel session... the 15th? see the e-mail i tried to send upon arriving home last night (computer wouldn't let me). so *that*'s the real reason why one of my fave wire songs is so entitled ... dan >Ari, >too many virgos already... >mine is on the 15th (hehe!) > > >later > >A > >> >> the 17th is the day AFTER my birthday Dan,how many >> other virgo's on the site?Ari >> --- dan bailey wrote: >> > aw, gee -- right on my birthday. though with any >> > luck i'll be seeing pere >> > ubu in nashville either that day or back home in >> > arkansas the day after ... >> > still, the gesture is certainly the most magnanimous >> > one any band has made >> > since the cure played new orleans, outside which i >> > was then living, on my >> > 30th back in '89. >> > >> > dan >> > >> > >************************************************************************* >The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and >intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any >warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of >this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended >recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that >any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is >strictly prohibited. > >If you have received this e-mail in error please notify >postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. > >This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the >presence of computer viruses. >************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:35:54 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Peel session... Keith. Libran. 41. Float, float on... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alistair Tear To: 'Ari Britt' Cc: Wire (E-mail) ; Karen Williams (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Peel session... > Ari, > too many virgos already... > mine is on the 15th (hehe!) > > > later > > A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:37:18 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez > Anyone heard any interesting new music lately? :) THE CORAL!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:35:19 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Soft Cell Best Of Question In a message dated 8/21/02 8:40:14 PM Central Daylight Time, xj23@yahoo.com writes: << I downloaded it the other day. Wasn't anything special. I prefer the new tracks from their current Best Of... MG >>>> what are the "new" tracks on the current Best Of? Is "God Shaped Hole" on there? thanks! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:34:50 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Peel session... >>for awhile there while i was working in little rock, i sat beside 2 copy >>editors, in front of the asst state editor, behind the state editor & a few >>feet from a reporter -- all born 9/15 (same year as well for the state >>editor & his asst). so was the obit clerk from downstairs. Fuckin' 'ell Dan FIVE 15th sept virgos in one office... shoulda formed a vocal quintet... all together now...'providing, deciding etc.' nurse, the screens!... 8-/ A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:36:55 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Peel session... Thought you wuz Mr Keith Death Cult from now on...8-] maybe not A > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.astbury10@virgin.net] > Sent: 22 August 2002 15:36 > To: Alistair Tear; 'Ari Britt' > Cc: Wire (E-mail) > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Peel session... > > > Keith. Libran. 41. > > Float, float on... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alistair Tear > To: 'Ari Britt' > Cc: Wire (E-mail) ; Karen Williams (E-mail) > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:25 AM > Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Peel session... > > > > Ari, > > too many virgos already... > > mine is on the 15th (hehe!) > > > > > > later > > > > A > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:56:17 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Peel session... Same office party? Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of dan bailey Sent: August 22, 2002 2:09 AM To: ideal copy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Peel session... for awhile there while i was working in little rock, i sat beside 2 copy editors, in front of the asst state editor, behind the state editor & a few feet from a reporter -- all born 9/15 (same year as well for the state editor & his asst). so was the obit clerk from downstairs. it's enough to make you think that something, oh, of a conjugal nature goes on every mid-december or so ... dan >the 17th is the day AFTER my birthday Dan,how many >other virgo's on the site?Ari >--- dan bailey wrote: >> aw, gee -- right on my birthday. though with any >> luck i'll be seeing pere >> ubu in nashville either that day or back home in >> arkansas the day after ... >> still, the gesture is certainly the most magnanimous >> one any band has made >> since the cure played new orleans, outside which i >> was then living, on my >> 30th back in '89. >> >> dan >> >> >> >...will be broadcast on September 17, quoth >> posteverything.com. >> > >> >R&B2 "very soon", it adds mysteriously... >> > >> >Watch out! >> > >> >Mark > > >===== >Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com >HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs >http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:56:58 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Profilez > Anyone heard any interesting new music lately? :) well, courtesy of a couple long-ago-paid-off zero-balance (till now!) credit cards, i've only just recently found on my doorstep, though with my 2 assts on vacation & my work hours back into the 12-hour range i'm still waiting to give proper listens to most of 'em -- acr --early 2cd go-betweens -- first 3 with bonus discs of b-sides & unreleased stuff pulp -- both bad cover version ep's new order -- here to stay the briefs -- hit after hit john foxx -- the golden section go-betweens (most recent incarnation) -- going blind ep bis -- plastique nouveaux rocket from the tombs -- the day the earth met the ... the fall -- 2g+2 liars -- they threw us all in a trench ... pixeltan -- ep playgroup -- s/t cruxshadows -- wishfire the rapture - mirror, out of the races ... ep's subtonix -- tarantism radar secret service -- stop communication the final 2 are the ones that've really caught on with me so far. subtonix are sort of like early x-ray spex in batcave mode, or something (ending with a cover of one of my fave screamers tracks, vertigo, was an excellent move, too). radar secret service live up surprisingly well to seller undergroundmedicine.com's description of them as evoking first-lp cure, though i'd throw some satisfact (which is to say, pretty much, magazine) & a few other influences in there as well. & of course, courtesy of local shops, 2 soundtracks (something i rarely buy ... outside of the harder they come, rhps, decline of western civ, velvet goldmine & probably a handful of others, i can't think of any i own) -- eraserhead & hedwiog & the angry inch. still awaiting a darlashop shipment of josef k, wake, stockholm monsters, section 25, crispy ambulance (scissorgun) & (just to break the ltm cycle -- see they've reissued 2 more ludus discs, btw) miss kittin & tv personalities discs. next up -- the new mekons, at the very least. dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:09:43 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs Can't resist chipping in with the fact that I'm a Gemini (two faced, schizoid) born on June 12. Just happened to be my mum's birthday. Oh, the rows about birthday celebrations I've had over the years. Cheers John >From: Alistair Tear >To: "'dan bailey'" >CC: "Wire (E-mail)" , "Karen Williams (E-mail)" > >Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Peel session... >Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:34:50 +0100 > > >>for awhile there while i was working in little rock, i sat beside 2 copy > >>editors, in front of the asst state editor, behind the state editor & a >few > >>feet from a reporter -- all born 9/15 (same year as well for the state > >>editor & his asst). so was the obit clerk from downstairs. > >Fuckin' 'ell Dan >FIVE 15th sept virgos in one office... >shoulda formed a vocal quintet... >all together now...'providing, deciding etc.' > >nurse, the screens!... 8-/ > > >A >************************************************************************* >The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and >intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any >warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of >this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended >recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that >any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is >strictly prohibited. > >If you have received this e-mail in error please notify >postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. > >This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the >presence of computer viruses. >************************************************************************* http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:14:45 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs Born: February 16th, 1968 sign: AQUARIUS !!!! yay! notes: i was born in the waning days of the sign of Aquarius so i have many tendencies of the sign of Pisces...which is strange combination indeed..kind of a split personality...kind of a faux Gemini if you will.... both of my parents were Pisces.... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:39:32 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 11:14:45AM -0400, RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > Born: February 16th, 1968 > sign: AQUARIUS !!!! yay! 25th October, 1980: Scorpio on the cusp of Libra, apparently. I fail to see what desperately profound effect this has on my life that can't be explained by social factors (eg, the fact I'm one of the youngest students in my university year due to school-year cutoff dates, for example)... but I could never resist chiming in in harmless off-topic threads. :) - - Andrew - -- "London ice cracks on a seamless line, We're hanging on for dear life." - Blur, "For Tomorrow" ('Modern Life is Rubbish') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:56:37 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Star signs > 25th October, 1980: Scorpio on the cusp of Libra, apparently. Cool - I'm a Scorpio as well. I was born on Oct. 31st/Nov. 1st at the stroke of midnight. Yes, that's midnight on Halloween. My mother got to choose my birthday, and since she was superstitious, she officially picked the 1st - All Saints Day. Yeah, right. Explains a lot of things about me, actually. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:04:05 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] St Arkansas At 09:09 AM 8/15/2002 -0500, dan bailey wrote: >on the other hand, saw an ad for bloodshot records (the only label i >consciously collect, depending upon whether one views pinkflag as a going >concern, i guess) last night that shows the road sign for u.s. 278 with >arrows for nashville (ark, not tenn) & hope (bill clinton's hometown, where >last i looked my first ex-wife is still city manager), 1) That same picture was also used many years ago on the cover of Marky and the Unexplained Stains' second album. The titular Marky is Mark Nevers, now of Lambchop and CYOD. Anyway, I imagine Bloodshot's intent in using the picture, like Mark's, is to reference the more familiar Nashville... 2)...but with slightly different intent. Marky = hopelessness of being a rock act in Nashville. Bloodshot = hopelessness of the homogenizing Nashville studio system with its dire effects on the soul of country music. 3) None of this has stopped Nashville from having a really good rock music scene, with peaks in '85-'90 (tail end of Jason & the Scorchers' original run, but a diverse range of folks including the Shakers, the Grinning Plowman, Jet Black Factory, Raging Fire, Webb Wilder, the Questionnaires) and '95-present (Fluid Ounces, Self [now in L.A.], Features, the Shazam, Lambchop, many more). BTW, I like ST. ARKANSAS pretty well after a few spins (PENNSYLVANIA did nothing for me -- I can't even remember a track of it right now). Hopefully we will be returned from the Chicago Wire show in time to see the Nashville Ubu show (their first since playing Vandy in '91 opening for TMBG) on Sept. 17th. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:20:36 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] St Arkansas interesting -- had no idea. right now, it's apparently also the back cover of one of bloodshot's latest releases, by bobby bare jr. dan, who's now more likely to make the pere ubu show in nashville (on my birthday, of course, assuming that i can get out of the scheduled vile all-day dept heads' meeting at the paper) than back home, since i'll apparently be making the latter trip labor day weekend for a family weekend for my sister's sake; & who finally got around last week to getting tickets for wire's atlanta show -- anyone else headed for that one? >At 09:09 AM 8/15/2002 -0500, dan bailey wrote: > >on the other hand, saw an ad for bloodshot records (the only label i > >consciously collect, depending upon whether one views pinkflag as a going > >concern, i guess) last night that shows the road sign for u.s. 278 with > >arrows for nashville (ark, not tenn) & hope (bill clinton's hometown, where > >last i looked my first ex-wife is still city manager), > >1) That same picture was also used many years ago on the cover of Marky and >the Unexplained Stains' second album. The titular Marky is Mark Nevers, >now of Lambchop and CYOD. Anyway, I imagine Bloodshot's intent in using >the picture, like Mark's, is to reference the more familiar Nashville... > >2)...but with slightly different intent. Marky = hopelessness of being a >rock act in Nashville. Bloodshot = hopelessness of the homogenizing >Nashville studio system with its dire effects on the soul of country music. > >3) None of this has stopped Nashville from having a really good rock music >scene, with peaks in '85-'90 (tail end of Jason & the Scorchers' original >run, but a diverse range of folks including the Shakers, the Grinning >Plowman, Jet Black Factory, Raging Fire, Webb Wilder, the Questionnaires) >and '95-present (Fluid Ounces, Self [now in L.A.], Features, the Shazam, >Lambchop, many more). > >BTW, I like ST. ARKANSAS pretty well after a few spins (PENNSYLVANIA did >nothing for me -- I can't even remember a track of it right >now). Hopefully we will be returned from the Chicago Wire show in time to >see the Nashville Ubu show (their first since playing Vandy in '91 opening >for TMBG) on Sept. 17th. > >later, > >Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:10:49 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true) >>>Punk isn't dead...it just sucks now.... (best bumper sticker i have seen in some time now!) Fair enough if you mistake bland corporate MTV whores like Blink 182 / Green Day as 'punk' because you don't actually know what ypu're talking about, but At least one member of WIRE recently referred to Read & Burn 01 as some kind of punk rock... But Maybe you'd rather be listening to yr crappy ol' Flock of Seagulls B-sides? Since you seem to be such an expert on punk sucking, what do you think of these bands? Melt Banana Ex Girl Seein' Red Driven Down This Ain't Vegas Bilge Pump Redbank Leatherface Valerie Noxagt Oxes Cat On Form The Locust Flux Information Sciences The Green Acre Erase Errata The Now Denial Drill For Absentee Kling Klang Gaji Selah Voorhees Los Crudos Econoline Shikari Pines of Nowhere GoGoGo Airheart Redneck Manifesto Trans Element Desolation Angels Jackie O Retisonic Replicator J*R Ink El Guapo Q and Not U Kill Yourself And None of Them Knew They Were Robots Wolves of Greece Solway Fifth Twelve Hour Turn Dillinger Escape Plan Phantomsmasher Pretty Girls Make Graves Polaris Nought Beecher From Safety to Where? Presumably you must've heard a fair few contemporary 'punk' bands to come to the conclusion that they suck? Not a patch on crap 80s rejects in bargain bins, I'm sure. Could someone burn me a Jo Boxers CD-R? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "Rivers are submerging Flowing underground" (WIRE ~ A Question of Degree) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:10:04 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] No No No No No No Mr Suit! Mr Suit pontificated > >Why? This is a good question. Why do people go on at such length about happenings they didn't experience? >>Did Wire play punky guitar bollocks at the ICA? > > They were playing drastic brutalist minimal rock with its roots in punk, informed by various excursions into the glitch fields and techno tunnels. Distortion pedals were observed. Two of them played guitars, one played a bass and one played the drums. It was punky guitar with or without bollocks, depending on the context in which you prefer to employ the word 'bollocks.' Read and Burn 01 sounds pretty much like 21st century punk rock to me. But I prefer to call it experigressive provivalism. > >I read that there was no moshpit, apart from two throwbacks who tried to > >get a pogo on during The Lowdown. > > > > You didn't read that they were 'throwbacks' - that's just yr typically bigoted interpretation of an event you didn't witness. People should stand still and behave. Imagine getting so excited you begin to move about while a band plays. Such lack of decorum is quite deplorable. > >>I'm sure you're actually more in a position to find out about 'punk rock' > >>than > >>many of the other regular posters to this list, > > > >But some people on this list lived through the actual Punk. Ideal Copy Posse in full effect in 1969 w/ Iggy & the Stooges etc. I'd rather > >hear their stories then try and re-enact it all...Sealed Knot stylie What is Sealed Knot? This comment pretty much sums up yr fusty early70s popbore mentality. You wouldn't know the sun was out unless you read about it in some monthly magazine. Some bands (such as Strapons) seem obviously retrogressive and up for re-enacting something or other. Many, many others are doing things which are really quite different. What are Melt Banana re-enacting exactly? etc. > > > >> living in Manchester where > >>there are many punk rock gigs (which you never go to) > > > >I wouldn't go and see a Punk Rock gig because I'm not interested in > >listening to a band that calls itself Punk or Hardcore in the year 2002. In comparison a band like the Coral must seem so fresh new and exciting. But I wouldn't know as I'm not interested in listening to bland soft rock in 2002. Curiously, most bands have their own names. No band is really going to be too worried about what genre they fit into, but punk is an attitude not a style. > >My Punk Rock world begins and ends with Pink Flag... White Music by XTC doesn't count then? And the hip hop kids getting angry weren't punk after all? They must've seemed very punk rock, fresh new exciting. Weren't The Clash merging punk & hip hop 22 years ago? and I prefer the > >slower, moodier tracks on that one anyway. > > > >And besides, I wouldn't want Cider and gob all over my nice clean suit. > > I've never actually seen anyone gob at anyone at a punk or hardcore gig ever. That stopped happening ages ago, which just goes to show how out of touch you are. (Tired of fucking phonies) > >>lets not get bogged down in the what is punk discussion > > > >Quite agree. So shut the fuck up already! > > > > > >>Andrew was asking the question of what punk is and Paul R said read Englands > >>Dreaming. but if you buy the convenient media lie / line > >>that he peddles, that punk was over around the time that book finishes > > > >I've met Jon Savage and he had a very nice suit on, and told me a funny > >story about Tony Wilson. > > (Yawn) > >>you are making a > >> > >>BIG MISTAKE > > > >No but the best bits were finished. Black Flag & Fugazi albums piss all over Pistols. Minutemen & Husker Du did some of the best bits. Melt Banana seem more exciting than any of these bands. Blah Blah Blah > >Punk had done its job, no-one was listening to ELP and Genesis anymore and > >lots of interesting things followed. > > I know quite a few people who listen to Genesis & ELP. It doesn't matter. Some of these people make interesting music. Punk was only an excuse for cultural fascism for blinkered popbores. Johnny Rotten was a big fan of Peter Hammil. Here's Mike Watt of Minutemen: "That's punk. Having a set up paradigm and then coming along and saying, 'I'm going to change this with my art'" > >Why re-hash the past? How do you know that, for example, And None of Them Knew They Were Robots are trying to rehash the past if you've never heard them? They have a 5 song CD-R which only costs #1. Maybe you can get one from www.therobots.co.uk >>Who wants to be a "punk" in 2002?. Its not about being a "punk". Its about doing things yourself and not waiting to be force fed bland entertainment. Its happening without yr permission Its happening without yr involvement Do yr own thing and stop bitching Or just carry on making a bigger jackass of yrself >>Invent something new. > > Like yr band? Didn't seem very 'new' to me, but maybe you've progressed since covering 'Frosty the Snowman'? > >>You won't find 'essence of punk' (whatever that is) in a book. You certainly > >>won't find it in a glossy monthly magazine. > >>Maybe you'll find it at a gig in a semi-secret location, advertised by > >>word of > >>mouth, > > > >Ooh, Like a sort of secret club. Less of a secret club than Ideal Copy. Open to anyone with ears to the ground & interested in it. Ideal Copy is way more exclusive, only open to the netocracy. >>Do you get a special badge? What for? If you want a badge, you can make it yrself. > >Zzzzzzzzzz. > > > > The armchair expert has dozed off. What a shame he woke up later to spout off more bollocks about things he seems to have little to no experience of. But there are very good reasons why some gigs are not publicised beyond word of mouth which have nothing to do with trying to keep them secret. > >>Last night I was at such > >>an event where three fine bands (Redbank [of the Wirral], This Ain't > >>Vegas [of > >>Sunderland] & And None of Them Knew They Were Robots [of Leeds]) rocked my > >>world. > > > >Bet they'd all sign to Mr Sony if he came a-knockin'. I know I would. > > You still seem to be living in the 1970s. Make sure you send the A&R dept a normal limited edition mainstream 7" to ignore / flog to 2nd hand shop for 2p. Actually I'd sign to Sony if I could write my own contract, like Royal Trux did with Virgin. That will never happen. My contract would allow me unlimited funding to do whatever I liked with no obligation to actually make any records or play any gigs. Everyone should have such a contract. Steve Albini's article for the Baffler 'Some of your friends are already this fucked' is an interesting read, even if things have probably got much worse since then. I'm sure Sony would take even less time telling you to go get fucked than I would... > >>Or maybe you'll find it in a small comic written by an anarchist girl from > >>Brighton? > > > >Will she still be an anarchist when she grows up to be a Woman? > > Maybe she'll mature into an upstanding citizen who watches old comedy programs aimed at teenagers and spouts off pointless know all gibberish on the internet about subcultures she never interracts with? Alternatively perhaps she'll get a book compiling her comics published? www.bedsit.freeserve.co.uk/bbw > >>Or maybe you'll find it a WIRE gig? > > > >I would have hoped Wire were way beyond being part of some retro, > >cider-swilling, bad trouser-wearing Punk thing. > > WIRE are often beyond. A lot of people at punk/emo/HC gigs don't drink alcohol. Why do you assume that people are wearing trousers to these gigs? The drummer from ANOTKTWRobots wasn't wearing anything last week. Colin, at least, seems quite keen to ally WIRE to Liars and this 'Future Rock'n'Roll' / Sonic Mook thing. Can't say I find much on that compilation to get excited about, aside from Liars and 2nd Gen and possibly Ikara Colt, but even though a lot of it sounds like toytown electro-punk irritant mixed up with slightly more exciting but rather dated rock'n'roll (Beatings, Buff Medways), I'm sure its more fun than the Coral (or the insipid drivel of Coin Op or the laughably abysmal Interpol who have been compared to WIRE, probably by hacks who'd just as soon listen to Oasis as the Beatles). > >>But catch it quick, they might not be there for long... > > > >Oh fuck I missed it. > > No one missed you though... I'm sure you can read all about it after the fact and form enlightened opinions that way. > >Never mind, here comes the new wave of > >nu-electronic-mindfuck-droogmongerdelic-spazrock. Grrrreat. sounds much more exciting than this fuckin' Coral thing. But the words 'punk' and 'emo' are certainly not adequate anymore if they can be used to describe turgid sub-Britpap piffle like Miss Black America. > > > > > > > >> >>>It was fast, loud, angry and DIY. > >> > >>So is a drunk truck driver with a drill > > > >And if he did a gig, you'd be in the front row dude! And if he played before your band, lots of people would probably watch it and then largely ignore your dated technoid dabblings, and you'd have a big sulk about it later especially if you'd had to play after a sprawling progrock group who also got more attention. (Thats right I'm tired of you) "The road ahead looks quite uncertain" (WIRE ~ 99.9) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:58:06 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Sucks (I read it on a bumper so it must be true) In a message dated 8/22/02 1:23:11 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: << >>>Punk isn't dead...it just sucks now.... (best bumper sticker i have seen in some time now!)>>>>> thought is was a funny bumper sticker...didn't say i completely agreed (or cared)...just happend to catch sight of it while on the bus heading to work to make my meager salary to waste on rent and dodgy old synth pop/new wave records... Fair enough if you mistake bland corporate MTV whores like Blink 182 / Green Day as 'punk' because you don't actually know what ypu're talking about, but>>> i don't really care what is considered "punk" rock these days....especially if we are talking about the type of loud, fast, aggressive, guitar,drums,bass, angst filled vocalist set up.....not my thing...never really has been...and further more, i NEVER know what i am talking about! and i LOVE it!...makes life much more fun... At least one member of WIRE recently referred to Read & Burn 01 as some kind of punk rock...>>>>>> that's cool...but if i actually had to decide which era of Wire material i would keep in my record collection it would definitely be the 80's/early 90's Wire/Wir But Maybe you'd rather be listening to yr crappy ol' Flock of Seagulls B-sides?>>>>>> sure!... why not?..i like that stuff....i'd also like to spend the day listening to stacks of Associates, Soft Cell/Marc Almond, Human League, OMD, Depeche Mode, Yazoo, Erasure, ABC, Art of Noise, Flock of Seagulls, Gary Numan, John Foxx, Ultravox, Japan/David Sylvian, Suicide (who are quite "punk" in my opinion), etc. etc. Since you seem to be such an expert on punk sucking,>>>> i'm not an expert on anything! it's great! what do you think of these bands? Melt Banana Ex Girl Seein' Red Driven Down This Ain't Vegas Bilge Pump Redbank Leatherface Valerie Noxagt Oxes Cat On Form The Locust Flux Information Sciences The Green Acre Erase Errata The Now Denial Drill For Absentee Kling Klang Gaji Selah Voorhees Los Crudos Econoline Shikari Pines of Nowhere GoGoGo Airheart Redneck Manifesto Trans Element Desolation Angels Jackie O Retisonic Replicator J*R Ink El Guapo Q and Not U Kill Yourself And None of Them Knew They Were Robots Wolves of Greece Solway Fifth Twelve Hour Turn Dillinger Escape Plan Phantomsmasher Pretty Girls Make Graves Polaris Nought Beecher From Safety to Where?>>>> i've heard things from maybe a third of these bands...and i don't think much of them...as i said, not my thing...but if i ever see the driver of the car that had the bumper sticker i yell out the window and ask his e-mail address..that way you can attack him! Presumably you must've heard a fair few contemporary 'punk' bands to come to the conclusion that they suck?>>>> nope,....but maybe the guy driving the car with bumper sticker has...or maybe even the car who created the bumper sticker? Not a patch on crap 80s rejects in bargain bins, I'm sure.>>>> of course not.. Could someone burn me a Jo Boxers CD-R? >>>>> i'd burn ya one if i actually owned it...sorry...(it's great being a dumb amerikkkan..i can always pretend that sarcasm goes right over my head...along with all the other pointless things in life....like discussions on "punk".) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:15:35 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] appropriate question for today Dear Straight Dope: Which Dick came first? OK, so if this isn't too crude of an opener, I will explain myself. My question is a simple one, but one that has troubled me for many years. I am puzzled as to which of these events occurred: 1. Someone (somebody had to be first didn't they?) named Richard thought it was a grand idea to go by a nickname which was also slang for the male genitalia "penis." 2. Penis slang was personified for someone nicknamed Dick who perhaps resembled in appearance or actions the male genitalia. 3. Some "coincidence" which cannot be explained. Adding to the uniqueness of this nickname is that Dick only shares two letters with Richard. Can you imagine for example "Pussy" being an acceptable nickname for Priscilla. Or "Tits" for Theresa. Perhaps "Ass" for Osama is on the way into the language and we don't even know it yet. --Justin aka "Kneecap" SDSTAFF Dex replies: Sure, or perhaps "to Cecil" will come to mean "to be wise beyond one's years." Obviously the name came first. The name Richard is very old, although its origin is disputed. Old English had Richeard, from Ric (ruler) and heard (hard); French had Richart, and Old German had Ricohard. The name Richer was also fairly common until the 13th Century or thereabouts. In those days, manuscripts, letters, grocery lists, and everything else was written by hand; it was therefore common and easier to use agreed-upon abbreviations. "Rich." was used for "Richer" and "Ric." for "Richard" or "Ricard." Richard and Ricard were equally popular in the Middle Ages, and the abbreviations led naturally to diminutives--such as Rich, Richie, Rick, and Ricket. Rhyming nicknames were also fairly common in the 12th and 13th centuries, and so we also have Hitch from Rich, Hick and Dick from Rick, and Hicket from Ricket. Some of these later became surnames or parts of surnames. We note that while Dick endures as a nickname, "Hick" has thankfully become obsolete, except when tied to "Dick" in rhymes such as "Hickory, Dickory, Dock." In the 13th and 14th centuries, "Hick" evolved, however improbably, into "Hudde," from which derives surnames such as "Hudson." W. Bardsley's masterful work, Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames (1901) cites a Latin manuscript that mentions "Ricardus dictus Hudde de Walkden." Back at the ranch, Dick and Hick were among the earliest of the rhyming nicknames, first appearing in writing around 1220. Other rhyming nicknames include Polly from Molly, Bob from Rob (from Robert), Bill from Will (from William); and Hodge from Roger. The name Dick (like the name Jack) was used colloquially to mean a man or everyman. The expression "every Tom, Dick, or Harry" attests to the this as a long-established usage; Shakespeare uses "every Tom, Dick, or Francis" in Henry IV Part I. From the usage of Dick to mean average person, other usages appeared. Many other usages. The Oxford English Dictionary cites a dick as meaning a type of hard cheese in 1847, which lead to the usage of "spotted dick" (to be dealt with in an upcoming Staff Report.) The term "dick" was also used to mean a riding whip, an apron, the mound around a ditch, and an abbreviation for "dictionary" around 1860. Dick also meant a declaration, in which sense the OED cites someone writing in 1878 "I'd take my dying dick" to mean "I'd swear a dying declaration." The term "dick" came to mean policeman around 1908, and then detective. And we finally get to where you started. The use of "dick" as coarse slang for penis first arises around 1890. Tracking the history of uncouth words is not easy, since such expressions were not generally written down. How "dick" came to be associated with penis is not known, although the riding whip may have pointed the way. So there you have it. - --SDSTAFF Dex Straight Dope Science Advisory Board ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #275 *******************************