From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #265 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, August 13 2002 Volume 05 : Number 265 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Madman's Money ["Alex Wise" ] Re: [idealcopy] Depression ["Alex Wise" ] [idealcopy] Fwd: Fw: 1st annual duh awards [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer ["John Roberts" ] Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons/weren't they [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons/weren't they [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons ["dan bailey" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:07:08 +1000 From: "Alex Wise" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Madman's Money > The saddest thing is that we could probably quite easily maintain the > standard of living that we have with very few tangible sacrifices without > causing all this suffering. I know we can.It's a matter of convincing as much people as possible about this. The hindrance is certain reactionaries who won't have it any other way. And many people are blinded by the media and all.The guilty ones causing the suffering, I'm sure they know they are doing something wrong but won't admit it. They just want to feather their own nests and fuck the rest. > But there are deeper reasons why certain vested interests (the utterly vile > Esson corporation for instance) want to keep things the way they are. I was > forced to work for these bastards while I was still at school and every time > I think of that it makes me sick. > Of course they want to keep things the way the are. Other wise they would be leapfroged by somebody else. I know how you feel. I've worked for bastards who just want to make puke over this PC. But now I'm in the Civil Service.A bit better. Till we reach the living end. regards Alex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:11:39 +1000 From: "Alex Wise" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Depression I shift the blame to the worm in the bottle. I shift the blame to anyone standing before me. Silk Skin Paws sums our situation very well in political terms. In emotional depressive times like these, I think Follow The Locust explains it. "Be smart shrink the world. But I can't wait to see the doctor" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Hick" To: Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:06 AM Subject: [idealcopy] Depression > I should be out at this hardcore all dayer right now, but for most of the day > I've been seething with so much inverted rage that I've been unable to get out > of bed. > > The only way I've been able to crawl out and summon the will to switch on the > computer to make words is by playing 'Swans Are Dead' loud enough to wake the > dead. > > Depression seems a very sane reaction to the terminal alienating insanity of > capitalism. For much of human history, people have organised themselves in > small scale social units (tribes) without much need for leaders, states or > corporation logos flashing on and off in the sky. Funny how they stil seem to > do this quite naturally despite the loony leaders' obsessions with so called > globalistion. > > Tomorrow I've got to start 26 weeks of terminal boredom being exploited by > some joke con company set up to save crap unnecessary businesses the trouble > of paying workers fair wages. I might get let off with good behaviour after 13 > weeks. I've cheered myself up a little by deciding to smuggle in a tape > recorder, ask a few questions and see if I can come up with an article > condemning the farce of 'New orDeal.' > > The time thieves are trying to catch me. > > I was really sad to read about Dan's depression where he couldn't even bear to > listen to music, because whenever I'm really at the end of my tether the thing > that always keeps me going is music. > > Hope you're feeling better, Dan. > > As a miserable fifteen year old completely sick of living in a small town > (same one Colin lived near for his first seven years) one song in particular > helped me see a funnier side to suicidal self pity, part of an infinitely > preferable world I could escape into with a pair of headphones. > > Another the Letter > > Still looking for Chairs > > Cracked Machine > Highly Irregular Cyberzine > http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > > "There's got to be a way to > GET OUT!" > > (Black Flag - Life of Pain) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 03:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: Fw: 1st annual duh awards > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:17 AM > Subject: 1st annual duh awards > > > > > > > > > "I would not live forever, because we should not > live forever, because if > > we > > were supposed to live forever, then we would live > forever, but we cannot > > live forever, which is why I would not live > forever." > > --Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest. > > > > > "Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving > kids all over the world, > I > > > can't help but cry. I mean I'd love to be skinny > like that, but not with > > all those flies and death and stuff," > > --Mariah Carey [now we know why she's such a > sensitive actress] > > > > > "Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a > very important part of > your > > life." > > --Brooke Shields, during an interview to become > spokesperson for a federal > > antismoking campaign. > > > > > "I've never had major knee surgery on any other > part of my body," > > --Winston Bennett, University of Kentucky > basketball forward. > > > > > "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of > the lowest crime rates in > > the country." > > --Marion Barry, Washington, DC. > > > > > "That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to > death by a jackass, and > > I'm just the one to do it." > > --A congressional candidate in Texas. > > > > > "I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great > country away from them. > > There were great numbers of people who needed new > land, and the Indians > were > > selfishly trying to keep it for themselves." > > --John Wayne > > > > > "Half this game is ninety percent mental." > > --Philadelphia Phillies manager, Danny Ozark > > > > > "It isn't pollution that's harming the > environment. It's the impurities > in > > our air and water that are doing it." > > --Al Gore > > > > > "If you let that sort of thing go on, your bread > and butter will be cut > > right out from under your feet." > > --Former British foreign minister, Ernest Bevin. > > > > > "I love California. I practically grew up in > Phoenix." -- Dan Quayle > > > > > "It's no exaggeration to say that the undecideds > could go one way or > > another." > > --George W Bush > > > > > "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much > clean air do we need?" > > --Lee Iacocca > > > > > "I was provided with additional input that was > radically different from > the > > truth. I assisted in furthering that version." > > --Colonel Oliver North, from his Iran-Contra > testimony. > > > > > "The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. > A genius is a guy like > > Norman Einstein." > > --Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback & sports > analyst. > > > > > "We don't necessarily discriminate. We simply > exclude certain types of > > people." > > --Colonel Gerald Wellman, ROTC Instructor. > > > > > "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of > failure." > > --Bill Clinton > > > > > "We are ready for an unforeseen event that may or > may not occur." > > --Al Gore > > > > > "Traditionally, most of Australia's imports come > from overseas." > > --Keppel Enderbery > > > > > "The loss of life will be irreplaceable." > > --Dan Quayle > > > > > "I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and > the only regret I have is > > that I didn't study my Latin harder in school so I > could converse with > those > > people." ---Dan Quayle > > > > > "It is wonderful to be here in the great state of > Chicago!" > > --Dan Quayle > > > > > "Your food stamps will be stopped effective March > 1992 because we > received > > notice that you passed away. May God bless you. > You may reapply if there > is > > a change in your circumstances." > > --Department of Social Services, Greenville, South > Carolina > > > > > "We apologize for the error in last week's paper > in which we stated that > > Mr. > > Arnold Dogbody was a defective in the police force > We meant, of course, > > that Mr. Dogbody is a detective in the police > farce." > > --Correction Notice in the Ely Standard, a British > newspaper > > > > > "If somebody has a bad heart, they can plug this > jack in at night as they > go > > to bed and it will monitor their heart throughout > the night. And the next > > morning, when they wake up dead, there'll be a > record." > > --Mark S. Fowler, FCC Chairman [and they'll cut > off your food stamps] > > > > > > > > > > ===== Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:49:24 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Depression On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 08:11:39PM +1000, Alex Wise wrote: [quoting Silk Skin Paws] > I shift the blame to the worm in the bottle. Seen it done; caught the flak. There's a reason that I'm tee-total. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs: however, I have no problem with other people doing these as long as they aren't hurting people around them by doing them. I have up-close-and-personal experience of dealing with alcoholics, and given that there appears to be at least some inherited tendency to both depression and addictive syndromes, I'm not prepared to take that risk. Oddly, the role that the Swans seem to play for the-artist-currently- calling-himself-Bill, Radiohead played for me as (probably quite a similar) fifteen year old: "I want to live, breathe: I want to be part of the human race!" This only works and worked some of the time, though. In some moods, I can't cope with anything that loud: that's where the somewhat more pastoral parts of my record collection come in - the Byrds, even Simon and Garfunkel. I particularly like "The Only Living Boy in New York", for some reason. Loud music works for me when I'm working: given I work almost entirely in front of a computer, I find either "organic" electronic stuff (cf Boards of Canada) or stuff like Nirvana's "In Utero" really good for coding. I have very little idea why. As for the fanzine: I'm not a very good author, but if such a thing were happening I'd be vaguely interested, either in purchasing or contributing (if there were anything worthy I can add). I'm thinking of ways of getting more involved in music; there's one avenue open (and it's not making music, much as I'd like to if I were both a more confident and more skilled guitarist), but I don't think I dare mention it here (yet, anyway...) - - Andrew - -- "I know it's true, all I do counts for confusion, Innocence making a case for illusion..." - - the Delgados, "Everything Goes Around the Water" ('Peloton') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:48:45 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] The Mekons The Mekons are going to play in Cambridge's (US Cambridge) Middle East Club on Sep 18th - right between Wire & Oxes (17th) and Pere Ubu (23rd). However, I pretty much never heard anything by The Mekons except for some punk compilations. I do like Three Johns though - believe there are some common members between the two bands? So - what style music are Mekons playing these days and is it worth going to that show? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:18:18 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer And this from the same man who quite rightly stood up for the Only Ones? Keith - you're a man with strange tastes. 8-) Cheers John >From: "Keith Astbury" >To: >Subject: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:08:20 +0100 > >I know there's a few people here who can't stand Primal Scream - isn't it >the >one thing (Wire apart) that the Manchester members agree on - but for those >of >you who do like them and haven't heard the latest single, Miss Lucifer, >it's a >glorious two and a half minute ride that certainly livened up last weeks >TOTP. > >Imagine a Suicide where Alan Vega says he wants to sound like Bolan and not >Elvis, a Suicide who want to be produced by Gorgio Moroder, a Suicide doing >a >Stooges cover, a Suicide that's just heard Krautrock for the very first >time. >And then let messrs Gillespie, Shields, etc get their dirty little mitts >over >it. Like Kawalski and Swastika Eyes, a genuinely exciting 45 IMO. > >Keith > >NP Sonic Youth - nyc ghosts & flowers http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:24:37 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons Mekons play bits and pieces from their entire catalogue. Last two occasions I've seen them in Leicester they've even played 'Where Were You?'. Last time they played two sets and were absolutely fantastic. They always play Leicester because Sara Corina is from here. Say Hi to her from me if you go. Cheers John >From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] The Mekons >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:48:45 -0400 > >The Mekons are going to play in Cambridge's (US Cambridge) Middle East Club >on Sep 18th - right between Wire & Oxes (17th) and Pere Ubu (23rd). >However, I pretty much never heard anything by The Mekons except for some >punk compilations. I do like Three Johns though - believe there are some >common members between the two bands? > >So - what style music are Mekons playing these days and is it worth going >to that show? > >Syarzhuk > >Be healthy, stay wealthy... > >Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:26:14 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons In a message dated 12/08/2002 17:24:50 GMT Daylight Time, johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com writes: > Mekons play bits and pieces from their entire catalogue I'm pretty sure that Dan is a bit of a Mekons fan from what I remember of his posts a year or two ago.Over to you Dan ....or I could be wrong ? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:29:52 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Madman's Money I caught John Ralston Saul talking on CPAC (the Canadian Parliamentary Channel) about his latest book "On Equilibrium." (Not John Saul the novelist. See http://www.gg.ca/john-ralston-saul/biography_e.asp ). He was recounting that when charity was invented in the middle ages, it wasn't a voluntary things where one decides this little bit goes to this favoured cause, it was a social duty with no input on the person part of the person giving the tithe as to whom it went. A far cry from our notion of charity today, This would be decried as communism in the USA I'm sure. Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Alex Wise Sent: August 12, 2002 6:07 AM To: Bill Hick Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Madman's Money > The saddest thing is that we could probably quite easily maintain the > standard of living that we have with very few tangible sacrifices without > causing all this suffering. I know we can.It's a matter of convincing as much people as possible about this. The hindrance is certain reactionaries who won't have it any other way. And many people are blinded by the media and all.The guilty ones causing the suffering, I'm sure they know they are doing something wrong but won't admit it. They just want to feather their own nests and fuck the rest. > But there are deeper reasons why certain vested interests (the utterly vile > Esson corporation for instance) want to keep things the way they are. I was > forced to work for these bastards while I was still at school and every time > I think of that it makes me sick. > Of course they want to keep things the way the are. Other wise they would be leapfroged by somebody else. I know how you feel. I've worked for bastards who just want to make puke over this PC. But now I'm in the Civil Service.A bit better. Till we reach the living end. regards Alex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:55:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons/weren't they Weren't the Mekons those little green Martians that Dan Dare was always chasin'?Ari - --- Syarzhuk Kazachenka wrote: > The Mekons are going to play in Cambridge's (US > Cambridge) Middle East Club > on Sep 18th - right between Wire & Oxes (17th) and > Pere Ubu (23rd). However, > I pretty much never heard anything by The Mekons > except for some punk > compilations. I do like Three Johns though - believe > there are some common > members between the two bands? > > So - what style music are Mekons playing these days > and is it worth going to > that show? > > Syarzhuk > > Be healthy, stay wealthy... > > Visit Belarusan Music Source - > http://www.belmusic.net > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ===== Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:27:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons/weren't they Nearly. The Mekon (singular) was Dan's arch enemy. With a massive head.... Mark > Weren't the Mekons those little green Martians that > Dan Dare was always chasin'?Ari ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:51 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer John said > And this from the same man who quite rightly stood up for the Only Ones? > Keith - you're a man with strange tastes. 8-) Why, sir. I thank you! Seriously though, I can understand why some people dislike Primal Scream. Gillespie's likes to come on like some 70's rock star (but with a conscience!) and his voice can be a bit on the whiny side, but I honestly think he's made some great records. XTRMNTR was a barnstorming album - from the excellently titled opening track Kill All Hippies to the thunderous Shoot Speed..., with it's excellent Mani 'Hookie-in-Neu' bassline. Talking of The Only Ones though - anyone read the naffly titled The One & Only Peter Perrett - Homme Fatale. He doesn't come out of it too well to be honest. A very sad case. Keith NP V/A - Dubwise & Otherwise 2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:50:20 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer Keith says >I know there's a few people here who can't stand Primal Scream - isn't it the >one thing (Wire apart) that the Manchester members agree on I agree with William on lots of things! Primal Scream are the perfect band...on paper. Rock & Roll stories of drug-fuelled madness to rival The Who or Led Zep yet they also espouse radical politics aplenty (and I'm sure they only shag left-wing groupies and manufacture their own drugs so as not to fund opressive regimes) Their music tastes are in the right ballpark: PiL, Brian Wilson, Can, Sex Pistols, Funkadelic etc etc. Plus on stage, flanking the arm-flailing Bobby G and you've got professional Manc-scally bass behemoth 'Mani', and on the other side, experimental genius and Bagpuss of rock, Kevin Sheilds. Surely they should be the greatest band on earth? So why are their records so shite? ________________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:39:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer - --- Tim wrote: > Keith says > > >I know there's a few people here who can't stand > Primal Scream - isn't it the > >one thing (Wire apart) that the Manchester members > agree on > > I agree with William on lots of things! > > > Primal Scream are the perfect band...on paper. > Rock & Roll stories of drug-fuelled madness to rival > The Who or Led Zep yet > they also espouse radical politics aplenty (and I'm > sure they only shag > left-wing groupies and manufacture their own drugs > so as not to fund > opressive regimes) > > Their music tastes are in the right ballpark: PiL, > Brian Wilson, Can, Sex > Pistols, Funkadelic etc etc. > > Plus on stage, flanking the arm-flailing Bobby G and > you've got > professional Manc-scally bass behemoth 'Mani', and > on the other side, > experimental genius and Bagpuss of rock, Kevin > Sheilds. > > Surely they should be the greatest band on earth? > > So why are their records so shite? I KNOW WHO WIRE ARE,AND THEY'RE NOT WIRE.Ari > > > > > ________________________________________ > Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click > http://www.kidsindestructible.com ===== Shriek at the world and the world shrieksback http://www.shriekback.com HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 01:58:32 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Miss Lucifer > Keith says > > >I know there's a few people here who can't stand Primal Scream - isn't it the > >one thing (Wire apart) that the Manchester members agree on > Surely they should be the greatest band on earth? > > So why are their records so shite? Manchester. So much to answer for. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:51:11 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons that would be me, all right ... "bit and pieces from their entire catalogue" would cover 25 years, ranging from postpunk so primal (first single & lp) that it made vintage go4 sound like the 4 tops to subdued slightly spacey stuff (2nd lp) to hard country (3rd through 5th lp) to mutant zydeco (3rd through 5th lp, too) to raucuous rock (7th lp) to aching ballads (pretty much whenever sally timms takes the mike) to ... well, that's just through '89. what may've been their best lp, curse of the mekons, came out a couple of years after that, & their 2000 effort, journey to the edge of the night, was a fine return to form (they got a bit too off-base for me after '93's i love mekons, itself a fine collection) that pretty much topped my list of albums for that year. the new one, oooh (for "out of our heads"), celebrating their 25 years of existence, is due out any day now, i guess. dan, who sadly hasn't seen them since their last memphis gig in 7/94 >In a message dated 12/08/2002 17:24:50 GMT Daylight Time, >johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com writes: > > >> Mekons play bits and pieces from their entire catalogue > >I'm pretty sure that Dan is a bit of a Mekons fan from what I remember of his >posts a year or two ago.Over to you Dan ....or I could be wrong ? > Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:58:44 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Mekons >The Mekons are going to play in Cambridge's (US Cambridge) Middle East Club >on Sep 18th - right between Wire & Oxes (17th) and Pere Ubu (23rd). However, >I pretty much never heard anything by The Mekons except for some punk >compilations. I do like Three Johns though - believe there are some common >members between the two bands? jon langford -- 3 johns guitarist, mekons guitarist & one of their 3 vocalists (also a waco brother, pine valley cosmonaut, killer shrew, probably a jelly bishop & a bunch of other bands i've forgotten ... producer & painter extraordinaire as well) > >So - what style music are Mekons playing these days and is it worth going to >that show? (a) god only knows. see my previous e-mail ... these guys have been known to change styles more drastically between albums than anybody i can think of except wire. the last one was pleasingly subdued. (b) i'm biased, but for godssakes, yes. too bad they're apparently coming nowhere near the south this time around. "retreat from memphis," indeed. dan > >Syarzhuk > >Be healthy, stay wealthy... > >Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #265 *******************************