From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #258 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, August 6 2002 Volume 05 : Number 258 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Wire Gig - Brighton 8/11/2002 ["Norm Fasey" ] [idealcopy] Tix on sale ["Cambra, Robert" ] [idealcopy] Autechre cd ep/dvd [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: depression and life in the manscape [Aaron Mandel ] [idealcopy] ot, re: the itoilet [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [idealcopy] Wire European Dates ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:37:41 +0100 From: "Norm Fasey" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Gig - Brighton 8/11/2002 You can now buy tickets to Wire's gig at Brighton Concorde 2 on 7/11/2002 from www.ticketweb.co.uk (price #10.00). I have already got mine! Norm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:44:29 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] Wire gig - brighton I can't decide between Brighton or Antwerp mmm! What an impressive tour list usa / europe the boys are back bigtime! A >>You can now buy tickets to Wire's gig at Brighton Concorde 2 on 7/11/2002 ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:26:25 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Tumbling Walls on Fire Must've had a Wonderful Time! WIR ~ The First Letter was in the CD player when I opened it, but I have no memory of hearing it the night before *What really went on there? Towards the end of a 3 day drink-binge I discovered that A. As suspected Liars are even more shit hot in small venue. B. There seems to be a dubious 1977 revival in the air / off the cards. (black white & green? hum hum hum-drum) dip So Liars rolled into Manchester city centre, which with the opening of Wrongbrain Wilson's Holy Dunking Fountain (the ids are alright, but kids are now donning swimming costumes for a dip) and the erection of a big screen to show off sporting event remembrance, is becoming more and more like a confirmation of the future world described in Blade Runner. Dystopic visions of tall grey buildings lurk around the corner. The Liars are into Philip K Dick, but who isn't? They also dig Snowcrash and most everything by William Gibson. Interviewed Liars - went quite well and seemed to hit it off with guitarist Aaron even if singer Angus began to seem a bit bored by the end - probably didn't help when he explained the stories behind some of his words and I told him he was destroying his mystique - but this is what Liars are all about - ANTI-ROCKSTAR thingy - no wonder they hit it off with WIRE - Aaron's favourite WIRE album is Chairs Missing - I trust & believe that it is also Colin's fave (Reading and Burning excepted) - so Liars are very much about DIY - not better'n you; 'you could do this.' Which is not to detract from the power of what they do, which is nice'n'noisy - - GET THEIR ALBUM! Let it blow holes in your cones. Despite early arrival, missed Jackie-O, who are Manchester's answer to Blues Explosion. Strap Ons had a pleasingly thick'n'nasty guitar sound, and sounded like a time warp back to CBGB's midlate70s even topping it with a cover of Dead Boys' Sonic Reducer. They'd be more enticing without the chundering distraction of the pointless poseur singer though. DJ Started on a GOOD FOOT with OLDIES but goodies - Public Image, Personality Crisis (mostly I find the Dolls tediously dated & bland, but this one's OK), Identity, Oi Fort da Law, 1969, Another Girl, Another Planet... but no WIRE - whats the matter with the fucker??? Then a total sonic abortion occurred. If there are any psychokiller keskersays on this list, could you kindly take out the polite sock-in-mouth Manic Pleat Stitcher softrock shite that witters on in terminal distraction under the moniquer Miss Black America? Or at least just do the singer in to put him out of our misery. Indeed one would be well advised to Miss them. This band sounds like they learnt about PUNK ROCK by listening to watered down piss like the MSP, which is a very bad thing. No wonder the eNMEy is reputed to be fawning over this lot - even a joke band like Radiodad would be better entertainment (if only for singer as earnest warbling twat angle). This guy was too dull to even watch and sounded like singer from some long (and best) forgotten Factory baggy tax return write off. The DJ started to turn ugly - yeah Public Image is a good record, but it does have a great B-side, so why play it twice? I was really bursting for a dose of THEME (Wish you would die) when the fucker started spinning Transvision Vamp's vein attempts to pretend they wrote Louie Louie (terminal boredom). Luckily before I made the night a true punk revival and puked everywhere, a wide blonde female of some species or other did some fairly amusing but ultimately quite awful solo guitar spiels and no-guitar raps. She's called Some Product and even though her red single was only a quid, it seemed pointless to buy it. The lady had balls but by this time THE LIARS were sorely needed. BUT NO Maybe these bands are inspirational in the same way that Mark E Smith experienced the Sex Pistols (ie. "I can do better than that!"). CONTRADICTION WILL ARRIVE WITH EVERY STEP AND TURN Time to give out flyers for upcoming quality-gigs from Chris Brokaw and Explosions in the Sky and photocopied articles on the art of the Projectile Moshpit. Liars had finished soundcheck earlier with an impressive run thorugh of 'This Dust Makes That Mud,' the track that closes their album on a hypnotic herb skirt loop that has been causing consternation and confusion to many of the vitriolic squares and normalbores who've reviewed it with an angle on 'dirge like' and 'duh'! So when Aaron asked if I had any requests I asked that they play that again later - turns out they don't do it often and it also happens to be his favourite Liarsong... Seemed to be lots of new numbers, and bassist did a lot more back up hollering than I'd noticed before. Hard to remember much to relate now, except that it was a lot of fun and they made a kind of fully fucked up sound I like. The beers had kicked in big time so mashed it up at front and found more brutal vibration there. It just got better and better. Angus is quite tall. "Can you hear us?" If we are to be thrust into the midst of PUNK77 revival then LIARS are already way beyond (just like WIRE). Tumbling walls buried me in the rubble with loose nuts. That day I also pursued the ancient joys of Richard Hell - Time Kukl - Holidays in Europe Just discovered 2 LAGER CANS lurking in fridge Breakfast time! (um, can I without *too much* further ado or indeed indecison on my part (but maybe just a little) make this, er, yes[1] I think I can (but now in analysis it seems I am speaking in parenthesis) a 4 DAY BINGE?...) [1]no explanations needed for this AFFIRMATION I've been Shattered! Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Faust - I can, u 2? "Past fumes will burn us in our bedrooms" (Liars - We Live NE of Compton) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:35:10 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] Tix on sale Tickets for Wire at The Fillmore went on sale yesterday. See you there! Robert (another) *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and all of its attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 12:50:50 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: depression and life in the manscape >From: Andrew Walkingshaw >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: depression and life in the manscape >I hope I haven't hurt anyone badly. > >- - Andrew I hope not too, but I really didn't get the impression that you had. It's things we can't talk about for fear of offence that tend to stay misunderstood. Returning to artists and depression, no of course you wouldn't wish anyone to go through that, but the fact is most intellighent, sensitive people will anyway--certainly not just the manically depressed. My point was that it is often in these moments that many artists (I dare say a fairly large majority) create their best work. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 12:36:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: Fw: new from apple > Subject: Fw: new from apple > > > > -------Original Message------- > > Date: Monday, August 05, 2002 10:36:25 > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:, > Subject: new from apple > > http://www.raytracer25.btinternet.co.uk/iToilet/itoilet.html > > > > . ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:48:00 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Autechre cd ep/dvd click click click...bzzzzzzrrrrrrrttt...grooooooaaaaaaannnnn....whheeeeeez... phew! i just got the new Autechre cd single.....They continue further down the road of unravelling the pre-conceived notions of what is electronic music...a blend of fractured beats and chaotic computerized and shredded noise.....the three tracks are a much more frantic work than anything on the Confield lp......it's the sound of electronic sound being trapped in a cell and furiously bouncing off the walls in an attempt to break free.....i do not own a DVD player but maybe i will watch it at my brother's house...i know two of the videos are for older tracks: Bass Cadet and the excellent Second Bad Vilbel....a video i have seen before...a creepy alien insectoid looking thing that comes to life and moves about....looks like it was filmed by a security camera.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:49:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: depression and life in the manscape On Mon, 5 Aug 2002, Michael Flaherty wrote: > My point was that it is often in these moments that many artists (I dare > say a fairly large majority) create their best work. I hesitate to bring my own story up, but after all you didn't say "many good artists" or "many serious artists" so I reckon I'm not out of the running... for a long time I heard people say things not too different from what you said above, and thought "Wow -- I'm miserable and I *do* feel a creative impulse, so I guess I should be spinning this shit into gold." Figuratively speaking. But I never did; then when I finally improved my life in other ways, it wasn't long before I started writing. The experience of making something neat does deflate depression for me sometimes, so I can see how someone who was able to create *even* while gloomy might find it a strong coping mechanism, but I admit I am skeptical of the oft-drawn conclusion that the pain itself makes for good art or even causes it. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 21:04:28 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: depression and life in the manscape On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 12:50:50PM -0500, Michael Flaherty wrote: > >From: Andrew Walkingshaw > >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: depression and life in the manscape > >I hope I haven't hurt anyone badly. > > > >- - Andrew > > I hope not too, but I really didn't get the impression that you had. It's > things we can't talk about for fear of offence that tend to stay > misunderstood. I'm very paranoid, particularly over email. I don't want to hurt people. This is going to sound monstrously self-pitying, but to some extent it's because I've *been* hurt at times and I can't wish that on anyone else. I'm not a manic depressive, but I do suffer from depression. The reasons for this aren't entirely clear; partially disposition/genetic, partially environment I suspect - much as with anyone else. I don't like to talk about it in public much because it seems insulting to people with *real* problems, if you see what I mean: I'm safe, and secure, and fed, and housed, and I live in a first-world country - really, I have nothing materially to complain about. > Returning to artists and depression, no of course you wouldn't wish anyone > to go through that, but the fact is most intellighent, sensitive people > will anyway--certainly not just the manically depressed. Manic depression (bipolar disorder) and "classic" dysthymia/depression are quite different things; many manic depressive artists create in their manic rather than depressed phases. Speaking from my own experience: I'm not creative, at least nothing I'd be proud enough to put on display apart from a small amount of software (and with software, the degree and nature of creativity shown is more related to that shown in my "line of work" (computational physics)). However, I've got a lot of my best work done when I've been through down and out into the other side, of despair-driven workaholism: shutting the world out through eighteen-hour-days and monomania. It's not pretty: it's a kind of hyperfocused, trance-like, fuck-everything-I-don't-matter-only-work-matters self-negating self-neglecting state. With hindsight, I spent months like this at school, and most of my second year at university (plus intermittent episodes since): sleeping four hours a night, starting work at midnight when the state kicked in, because I couldn't face working before that: it's only something you can do if you are sufficiently bloody-minded and hate oneself sufficiently to *push oneself through it*. It's also, to a large extent, the only reason I passed my degree: it makes up for the times when I've not got anything done due to lack of motivation. It does not have a good effect on people around oneself, though: there's been more than one occasion people have tried to seek help on my behalf. It may be a productive state, and I can do the hundred-and-twenty-hour week when I need to for deadlines, but it's not even slightly healthy. If that's what these artists go through when they are creating, then I'm ashamed to exploit them through purchasing their art. - - Andrew - -- "He lies on his side; is he trying to hide?" - - Wire, 'Outdoor Miner' ("Chairs Missing") adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:16:16 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] Suffering, No! And I certainly agree with Michael--no unnecessary or put on suffering, please. Andrew, in post on Friday, reminds me a story John Cleese told in one of the books he did with his psychiatrist, Robin Skynner. They were talking about the contribution of pain and suffering to creativity and Cleese mentioned an artist friend of his who, given the choice, would choose to suffer and keep his creative edge--he felt they were entirely connected--than be well-adjusted and not so good an artist. Cleese would rather be happy; felt his friend's choice was fundamentally wrong. We also hear that "suffering of quality is unnoticeable to others," but I can't speak to that. Robert (another) *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and all of its attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 15:36:18 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: depression and life in the manscape >The experience of making something neat does deflate depression for me >sometimes, so I can see how someone who was able to create *even* while >gloomy might find it a strong coping mechanism, but I admit I am skeptical >of the oft-drawn conclusion that the pain itself makes for good art or >even causes it. Instead of my usual easy-to-misunderstand paragraphs (IMO): Pain is nothing (artistically) without talent. Not all great art is caused by pain or depression. But (and this I really believe has been shown): artists OFTEN do their best work in reaction to depression. I might add that this doesn't mean you grab the pen, paintbrush, powerbook, or whatever at that very moment (quick! while I'm miserable!). Sometimes the best work comes later--upon reflection. Words like often and sometimes are important here. :) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 17:45:17 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] musings/ramblings of a drunk > >>John (Jon?) Leeway I think...<< Joe Leeway > >>Incidentally, I don't think either Leeway or Alannah were in the band at > that time (I think it was another female in the early version), but don't > quote me on that.<< > > I think you're right Keith... from what I remember (and I'm into the deep > file storage area marked 'trash' in the back of my brain) they had a female > sax player. > > Frightening but true dept.... they're still going (minus Joe Ridgway of > course) and are based in New Zealand... > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:28:36 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] Wire tickets already on sale in Seattle Hi everyone, Sorry about the delay on this announcement - but I was in L.A. attending the 2nd annual Sifl-n-Olly convention. (Anyone remember them?) Anyway, tickets went on sale for the Seattle show on Saturday, Aug. 3rd. The show itself is on the 10th of September. You can get them from http://www.fastixx.com or by calling 1-800-992-tixx. (Not sure about overseas orders - you're on your own there. (^_^)) Cheers, Paul *********************************************************** Brain: "Pinky, Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" Pinky: "I think so Brain, but can the gummy worms really live in peace with the marshmallow chips?" Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:21:59 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] Why? Why is the flag pink? I've forgotten. Or have I never known? I don't remember, but I want to know. If there's an answer surely someone here knows! Thanks, Robert (another) *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and all of its attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 23:00:40 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] ot, re: the itoilet okay, yes i'm a mac lover. now that that's out of the way, i was looking forward to seeing what was obviously going to be some kind of joke, hopefully a visual one, and at first i had a good chuckle and thought the itoilet actually looked pretty cool. hehe. but boy does this guy know how to ruin a potentially good joke. the text is loaded with so much misinformation and bias so as to give pc lovers there much needed laugh (cuz we all know that pc owners need a good laugh now and then, what with their machines breaking down and getting infected so often...anything to alleviate some of the misery, right?), if he was joking about wire, he'd be trying to get us to laugh at graham for being a bad drummer. anyway...i thought some open minded folks, such as you all on this idealcopy list here, wouldn't be afraid to check out some of the articles at the following links. even the ones written by mac lovers are pretty fair in their assessments. i'm particularly fond of this article. it talks about left brainers and right brainers, and i believe a lot or our puter preferences stems from this: http://www.mymac.com/collins/7.3.02.shtml but here's the whole list: http://www.macspeedzone.com/html/hubs/partisan/mac_vs_win.html enjoy, paul (new imac w/17" widescreen and superdrive is on the way) c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 07:56:26 UT From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire European Dates http://www.posteverything.com/news/article.php?id=2489 has the November european tour dates. Also, don't miss Leaf's new Sofa Surfers release on posteverything. cheers, giluz www.indymedia.org.il - -- http://fastmail.fm - Ever wonder why we aren't named snailmail.sm? ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #258 *******************************