From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #253 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, August 1 2002 Volume 05 : Number 253 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Another the Newbie [Norm Fasey ] Re: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie ["Keith Astbury" ] RE: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] north-west fashion parade ["John Roberts" ] Re: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] north-west fashion parade ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Jobriath [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Latest Wire Tour Dates ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:22:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Norm Fasey Subject: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie Hi Everyone Just a quick message to introduce myself. I have been into Wire since I saw them live at The Roxy in 1977. At the time I was becoming more and more disillusioned with the whole Punk Scene. Wire were a revelation! I have been obessed with all things 'Dugga' ever since. Jusat recently I was curious about how much info I would find on Wire on the Internet. That is how I stumbled upon you guys. I look forward to discussing all things Wire related. I just bought the Read and Burn CD thru PostEverything.com. Did everyone get a autographed postcard from the band with theirs. It was a nice surprise!! I am also a musician whose history goes back to 1976. I was in one of those run of the mill punk bands called The Violators from a council estate called Thamesmead in SE London. After hearing Wire, you can definitely hear their influence in my next band who were called New Devices. No recordings exist for the Violators but I recently found the old Demo Tape of New Devices and have ripped them into mp3's and posted them on www.mp3.com/new_devices - spot the Wire influence in some of the tracks. I make no excuse for it at all :). I also have some of me more recent stuff on www.mp3.com/biphasic if anyone is interested. It's still got a hard edge to it but it's more based in electronica than three chord wonders :). Anoyhow. Nice to find some like minded people out there. Incidently, I am considering starting a band up again. If Wire can reform and produce the utterly brilliant Read & Burn, then maybe I am not too old to do it either. If any of you are musicians and want to give it a go, email me. Norm ===== - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d? s:+ a+ C++ UL++ P+ L+++ E W+ N+++ o-- K- w O- M V PS PE+++ Y PGP++ t+ 5 X++ R* tv+ b++ DI++ D+ G e++ h-- r+++ z* - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:55:12 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie Hi Norm Welcome aboard. Hope you like it here. Keith > Hi Everyone > > Just a quick message to introduce myself. > > I have been into Wire since I saw them live at The > Roxy in 1977. At the time I was becoming more and more > disillusioned with the whole Punk Scene. Wire were a > revelation! I have been obessed with all things > 'Dugga' ever since. Jusat recently I was curious about > how much info I would find on Wire on the Internet. > That is how I stumbled upon you guys. I look forward > to discussing all things Wire related. > > I just bought the Read and Burn CD thru > PostEverything.com. Did everyone get a autographed > postcard from the band with theirs. It was a nice > surprise!! > > I am also a musician whose history goes back to 1976. > I was in one of those run of the mill punk bands > called The Violators from a council estate called > Thamesmead in SE London. After hearing Wire, you can > definitely hear their influence in my next band who > were called New Devices. No recordings exist for the > Violators but I recently found the old Demo Tape of > New Devices and have ripped them into mp3's and posted > them on www.mp3.com/new_devices - spot the Wire > influence in some of the tracks. I make no excuse for > it at all :). > > I also have some of me more recent stuff on > www.mp3.com/biphasic if anyone is interested. It's > still got a hard edge to it but it's more based in > electronica than three chord wonders :). > > Anoyhow. Nice to find some like minded people out > there. > > Incidently, I am considering starting a band up again. > If Wire can reform and produce the utterly brilliant > Read & Burn, then maybe I am not too old to do it > either. If any of you are musicians and want to give > it a go, email me. > > Norm > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GCS d? s:+ a+ C++ UL++ P+ L+++ E W+ N+++ o-- K- w > O- M V PS PE+++ Y PGP++ t+ 5 X++ R* tv+ b++ DI++ D+ > G e++ h-- r+++ z* > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:19:02 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie > > I have been into Wire since I saw them live at The > > Roxy in 1977............ hi there norm , that's an impressive opening line if ever i heard one. sadly i was only 13 in 77 so that's an experience i missed. so go on then , describe to us all what the roxy was like? impressive? remember wire? have to ask , never met anyone who went there. p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:33:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Coin-up Brighton band Coinup (I think?) were in session on Peel last night and sounded pretty interesting. One track - a version of a single called Democracy apparently - reminded me of early Teardrops and Kleenex, though the organ occasionally ventured maybe a bit too close to the Inspiral Carpets. Certainly wouldn't mind hearing more. Apparently they've released a few singles - anyone know if they're any good? Keith NP The Smiths - Louder than Bombs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:51:43 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie Welcome aboard Norm...I wasn't at the roxy either but at the ica magog the other night there was some problem with Colin's monitor which caused a bit of a hold-up to the proceedings and a voice from down the front shouts... 'back to the roxy!' hehe btw Paul, me old mate, did you find a scan of the menu? I've got a spare original if you need it...mail me offlist later A > > I have been into Wire since I saw them live at The > > Roxy in 1977............ ///that's an impressive opening line if ever i heard one. ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Norm Fasey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie Hi Paul, What I can recall the Roxy was not impressive in size. To get down to the place wehre the bands were, you had to go do a small flight of stairs. The stage was set up at the bottom of the stairs. The room was no bigger than about 60' square?? It had bench seats around the outside. I also seem to remember the ceiling was quite low which meant the sound from the stage really filled the room! It was dark and dingey and knee deep in plastic beer glasses! There was a small dressing room to the side of the stage, this was no bigger than about 10' X 4' and had a serving hatch thru to the bar. I know this becuase, not only did a go there and watch other bands, The Violators played there twice! Once on their own and once supporting Souxsie and the Banshees. This was back in the days when she still did Captain Scarlet and The Lords Prayer as part of her set. I hadn't planned to go and see Wire that night, it was just another trip to the Roxy. I can't even remember who else was on the Bill. Maybe Eater? I just remember Colin saying 'Pay Attention, Were Wire' - a phrase I heard on the Live at The Roxy Album, so I am guessing I was there the night they recorded 12XU and Lowdown for the album. Unless he used the same intro each time? One other thing that also springs to mind, is that Don Letts used to be DJ and had a DJ booth to the far right of the stage. I remember him playing loads of Dub, Ramones, Stooges, New York Dolls, Velvets etc. At the time there were only one or two Punk singles released in this country. The Pistols, The Damned and The Saints. As soon as I saw Wire, I could tell they were different from all the '1.2.3.4' merchants. No songs about how they hated the government or living on a council estate. Instead there were thought provoking 1 minute bursts of pure noise. Just as you started to get into a song, it would end! It certainly kept you on your toes. I seem to remember them doing 'Mary Was A Dyke' which was the only thing close to what I considered to be yer average punk song. I also remember that had great trouble keeping in tune and keeping in time. But that didn't matter the set was pure magic! There was no more than about 100 people there and I think most of them just did not get what Wire were trying to do. I got it in a second and it was like a light being switched on in my head! The only one out of the band that looked remotely like a punk was Graham. He wore a stripey home made shirt with stenciled writing on it. The rest looked like university dropouts or something. BC Gilbert had a sort of Mod haircut. Newman was all in black I think. That just added to my curiosity. Who were these four strange looking blokes with the 30 second songs??? As you might guess, that night had a profound effect on me! Norm - --- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > > > > I have been into Wire since I saw them live at > The > > > Roxy in 1977............ > > hi there norm , that's an impressive opening line if > ever i heard one. sadly i was only 13 in 77 so > that's an experience i missed. so go on then , > describe to us all what the roxy was like? > impressive? remember wire? have to ask , never met > anyone who went there. p > > > ===== - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d? s:+ a+ C++ UL++ P+ L+++ E W+ N+++ o-- K- w O- M V PS PE+++ Y PGP++ t+ 5 X++ R* tv+ b++ DI++ D+ G e++ h-- r+++ z* - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:53:04 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] north-west fashion parade If you ever need evidence of colours creeping in in 1981 watch Urgh A Music War. I watched it last night for the first time since the 80s. Even 999 are wearing lime green t shirts. Great to see Ubu, Magazine, Gang of Four etc. footage. There's a lot of faux weirdness on it - mostly from the US bands it has to be said. Don't these bands know you don't have to weird to be wired? But I suppose that says more about what I consider to be a punk/new wave aesthetic than it does about the quality of these bands. John >The combat gear Bunnymen image was acceptable as an alternative, though >only >during 1980. By the spring of 81 it was well out, though the overcoats etc >had another year or so to run. Colours started creeping in - eg Josef K, >as >bleak as you got in terms of sound and image, wore 60s mod suits with >psychedelic shirts. Much copied, especially in these parts! > >Mark http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:41:02 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie Welcome aboard Norm! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:29:12 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] north-west fashion parade In a message dated 7/31/02 7:53:33 AM Central Daylight Time, johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com writes: << If you ever need evidence of colours creeping in in 1981 watch Urgh A Music War. I watched it last night for the first time since the 80s. >> my brother has this..i ought to get a copy..Gary Numan (and his weird little car) and OMD are both on this right? np - Autechre Live in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:23:07 -0400 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie I've got an lp comp called Punk and Disorderly, Further Charges, and the last track on Side One is by the Violators called "Gangland" - it was one of my faves on the record as the singer turns in a great Johnny Rotten impersonation on the coda, something along the lines of "wanna be an anti-hero" over and over over a great crunch riff. I used to have a 45 by another Violators (a NYC band I believe that I sold off to some collector). So were you in yet a third Violators? Does that name win a prize for most use simultaneously by bands? Steve. G - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm Fasey" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:22 AM Subject: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie > Hi Everyone > > Just a quick message to introduce myself. > > I have been into Wire since I saw them live at The > Roxy in 1977. At the time I was becoming more and more > disillusioned with the whole Punk Scene. Wire were a > revelation! I have been obessed with all things > 'Dugga' ever since. Jusat recently I was curious about > how much info I would find on Wire on the Internet. > That is how I stumbled upon you guys. I look forward > to discussing all things Wire related. > > I just bought the Read and Burn CD thru > PostEverything.com. Did everyone get a autographed > postcard from the band with theirs. It was a nice > surprise!! > > I am also a musician whose history goes back to 1976. > I was in one of those run of the mill punk bands > called The Violators from a council estate called > Thamesmead in SE London. After hearing Wire, you can > definitely hear their influence in my next band who > were called New Devices. No recordings exist for the > Violators but I recently found the old Demo Tape of > New Devices and have ripped them into mp3's and posted > them on www.mp3.com/new_devices - spot the Wire > influence in some of the tracks. I make no excuse for > it at all :). > > I also have some of me more recent stuff on > www.mp3.com/biphasic if anyone is interested. It's > still got a hard edge to it but it's more based in > electronica than three chord wonders :). > > Anoyhow. Nice to find some like minded people out > there. > > Incidently, I am considering starting a band up again. > If Wire can reform and produce the utterly brilliant > Read & Burn, then maybe I am not too old to do it > either. If any of you are musicians and want to give > it a go, email me. > > Norm > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GCS d? s:+ a+ C++ UL++ P+ L+++ E W+ N+++ o-- K- w > O- M V PS PE+++ Y PGP++ t+ 5 X++ R* tv+ b++ DI++ D+ > G e++ h-- r+++ z* > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:06:53 -0400 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] north-west fashion parade One of the great disappointments to me of the indie/punk/new wave movement in the US was the ascendency of the weird "intellectuallistic" bands. I guess the blame has to be laid at the feet of the Talking Heads, who pioneered the neurotic school of punk, but whereas the Heads (esp in their early days) carried quite an edge, there were few bands that lived up to the model. I can think of early Nervous Rex (see their 45, not their Chapman produced abortion of an album (that's the fault of Blondie's success - another story), and the Roddy Franz fronted (he of brother Chris) Urban Verbs who coulda been contenders - a nice blend of early Ultravox isolationism mixed with an Ubu aesthetic. I think Mike Thorne was on boad to produce their album, but something went wrong, don't remember the history too well. Had one stupendeous number called "This Song is Your Up". Even the early Devo had their edge, but in the USA punk didn't carry any antigovernmental/political edge, American new wave was vehemently apolitical, so the disaffected were those oddball types that just didn't fit in, whether they were your poetic revolutionaries who still believed in the power of rock - ie. Television, and Patti Smith, or your post Stoogoid glue heads (proto slackers you could say) who could combine the power of a metal riff with fierce anti-intellectualism in consise sonic bursts - Ramones, Dead Boys, a wing of Ubu, or you had the "uncool" often nerdy, too smart for their own good, who sensed, no matter incohately that they didn't fit in, even in teenage culture, and that they'd never be cool enough, or stupid enough to mindlessly enjoy your AOR album oriented mass produced fodder that thousands upon thousands of their peers did, but face it, were still fundamentally uncool kids who couldn't "rock" if you dropped a boulder on them, and for every Half Japanese that emerged, we were mired in those that thought high weirdness was some sort of post Devo, B52s, Skafish, Oingo Boingo anal examining of frankly embarassing social deficiencies. One other factor that struck home when I saw that Sex Pistols movie of their tour of America was that the US new wave/punk movement was the first time that the sexually confused, indermanite, openly gay or bi crowd could start to come to the surface. Ziggy and Bolan and glam and all never happened in the US. The Dolls were totally underground and Reed was a freak that nobody wanted to emulate, Alice Cooper was rampantly heterosexual, Twisted Sister stunk and were stupid, Jobriath - eegh!, so that subgeneration had to wait another 5 - 10 years before they had a popular voice - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roberts" To: ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] north-west fashion parade > If you ever need evidence of colours creeping in in 1981 watch Urgh A Music War. I watched it last night for the first time since the 80s. Even 999 are wearing lime green t shirts. Great to see Ubu, Magazine, Gang of Four etc. footage. There's a lot of faux weirdness on it - mostly from the US bands it has to be said. Don't these bands know you don't have to weird to be wired? But I suppose that says more about what I consider to be a punk/new wave aesthetic than it does about the quality of these bands. > > John > > >The combat gear Bunnymen image was acceptable as an alternative, though only > >during 1980. By the spring of 81 it was well out, though the overcoats etc > >had another year or so to run. Colours started creeping in - eg Josef K, as > >bleak as you got in terms of sound and image, wore 60s mod suits with > >psychedelic shirts. Much copied, especially in these parts! > > > >Mark > > > > > > http://www.captive.co.uk/bocca/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:56:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] another the newbie Hi norm,with a name like yours you should get together with a couple of guys named Al,then you could call yourselves the NormAls.Ari in America(I like to get up peoples noses,I'm wierd like that) ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:00:59 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another the Newbie In a message dated 31/07/2002 11:47:45 GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > Hi Norm > Welcome aboard. Hope you like it here. > Keith > Yes.Nice one Norm.Welcome from another one of those Forty Somethings. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:44:43 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] north-west fashion parade Stephen screamed... > Jobriath - eegh! Do you know I've still not heard Jobriath. I was never interested in him at the time, but I do find it odd that I've never heard *anything* by him. Was he really THAT bad??? Apparently he lived at the Chelsea Hotel NYC later on and there was a rumour he died - is that right? > > If you ever need evidence of colours creeping in in 1981 watch Urgh A > Music War. I watched it last night for the first time since the 80s. Even > 999 are wearing lime green t shirts. 999 are wearing very garish gear on the cover of their 2nd album Separates (back in '78 I think). Not sure who dressed them, but it certainly wasn't their wives... Best fashion tip I've read lately came via The Times and concerned what to wear in the summer (i.e. don't wear socks with sandals etc) and said, quite simply: Don't go for the shabby chic look if you are over 35. You will look like a vagrant. Ooops! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:52:42 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] suffering But, Andrew, the artist is a shaman who must suffer to create, he has no choice; that's his role, its not depression. And then there is craft. (Oh, no, I just used several words I never thought I'd want to use here.) Robert (another) *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and all of its attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:20:37 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jobriath Several years ago people started dropping Jobriath's name (Morrissey in particular) and I happened upon a very tatty Jobriath album in a junk shop for 50p. It's dreadful. Completely misses the point of glam - operatic, histrionic, pretentious and pretty much unlistenable! Mark >>Do you know I've still not heard Jobriath. I was never interested in him at the time, but I do find it odd that I've never heard *anything* by him. Was he really THAT bad???<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:24:18 +0000 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Latest Wire Tour Dates From PostEverything: LATEST CONFIRMED WIRE DATES FOR NORTH AMERICA As at date of post - the following dates are now confirmed for Wire's North American tour in September 2002. FRI 6 DENVER CO - Bluebird Theater SAT 7 SAN DIEGO CA - Casbah SUN 8 LOS ANGELES CA - El Rey Theater MON 9 SAN FRANCISCO CA - Fillmore TUE 10 SEATTLE WA - Showbox WED 11 PORTLAND OR - Crystal Ballroom FRI 13 MINNEAPOLIS MN - First Avenue SAT 14 CHICAGO IL - Metro SUN 15 TORONTO ON - Lee's Palace TUE 17 CAMBRIDGE MA - Middle East (Down) WED 18 NEW YORK NY - Irving Plaza THUR 19 PHILADELPHIA PA - Gasoline (Making Time event) FRI 20 WASHINGTON DC- 9:30 Club SAT 21 ATLANTA GA - Echo Lounge SUN 22 AUSTIN TX - La Zona Rosa PLEASE NOTE - A EUROPEAN TOUR IS CURRENTLY BEING BOOKED FOR NOVEMBER 2002 SPECIAL GUESTS The Standard from Portland all west coast dates except Seattle The Oxes from Baltimore Cambridge through to Atlanta More updates still to come Check with pinkflag.com for more tour news at http://www.pinkflag.com/tourdates.html www.indymedia.org.il - -- http://fastmail.fm - One of many happy users: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #253 *******************************