From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #231 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, July 12 2002 Volume 05 : Number 231 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT - SF writing ["Keith Knight" ] [idealcopy] Re: Banks Burroughs Dick [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] OT: Gigs in London/Scotland [giluz ] [idealcopy] Bolin or Cruce? ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Can Father Yells ha ha ha ha ["Bill Hick" ] RE: [idealcopy] July 20 logistics ["Andrew Lumbard" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - SF writing In the beginning he wasn't afraid to admit that he was writing SF but as the 60s wore on he disassociated, either from personal choice or because his publishers wanted him to move to a different part of the shop. But he definitely wrote SF and included SF tropes well past his move to the mainstream. Sirens of Titan is the best example of his SF period IMO and I'm very fond of Galapagos from later - which also has SF elements. It's a well-known ploy of course for best-selling SF writers to be badged as mainstream by their publishers once the money starts rolling in or they write a cross-over book. But that doesn't stop it being SF (and, no, I'm not going down the long road of defining SF!). another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian.s. jackson To: Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:04 PM Subject: [idealcopy] OT - SF writing > apologies if this is obvious/mundane/whatever in any way but... > > where would any of you experts consider Kurt Vonnegut to be...? > at the core/middle-ground/periphery of SF...? > > ian.s.j. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:54:04 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] July 20 logistics What's the nearest tube station to the ICA? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:59:39 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Banks Burroughs Dick >From: "Bill Hick" >Subject: [idealcopy] Banks Burroughs Dick >Easily my favourite and most reread Dick book is a posthumous compilation of >his musings 'The Shifting Realities of Philip K Dick' (ISBN 0-679-74787-7) So have all of you Philip K. Dick people read his biography by my former-Professor Larry Sutin? It's so rare that I get to name drop. :) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:36:16 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Banks Burroughs Dick on 11/07/02 22:59, Michael Flaherty at mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us wrote: >> From: "Bill Hick" >> Subject: [idealcopy] Banks Burroughs Dick >> Easily my favourite and most reread Dick book is a posthumous compilation of >> his musings 'The Shifting Realities of Philip K Dick' (ISBN 0-679-74787-7) > > So have all of you Philip K. Dick people read his biography by my > former-Professor Larry Sutin? > > It's so rare that I get to name drop. :) > > Michael Flaherty > > 'Divine Invasions' is a great read. Dick's life reads like one of his novels. Sutin also edited 'The Shifting Realities of PKD' & 'In Pursuit of Valis - selections from the Exegesis'. Cheers giluz - -- INDYMEDIA ISRAEL http://www.indymedia.org.il/ Indymedia is a collective of independent media ogranizations and hundreds of journalists offering grassroots, non-corporate coverage of major protests. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:39:58 +0200 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Gigs in London/Scotland A friend of mine is gonna visit London & Scotland for three weeks since the end of July. Any interesting gigs I could refer him to? giluz - -- INDYMEDIA ISRAEL http://www.indymedia.org.il/ Indymedia is a collective of independent media ogranizations and hundreds of journalists offering grassroots, non-corporate coverage of major protests. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:30:15 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Bolin or Cruce? A Question: Did anyone observe That Godfather Gilbert's Icelandic Motor Organ Kitchen Experiment at the weekend? It was recorded by Mixing It and I'm assuming that at least a portion might be broadcast on R3 this Sunday. A source of reliability informs me that the Veteran Shoutybloke CJN is interviewed in the current issue of 'Broken Face' mag. My source, who knows Mr Steve Gears, pondered whether Mr Newman was pisstaking by bigging up the music scenes of jolie Paris and (moribund) Manchester, but considering the Swim Teamsters Beatkitten & Toucaen, I told this source that my considered opinion was that Colin was probably thinking of these artists and perhaps also Mr Gears. Has anyone seen the Broken Face? I got no lips I got no tongue Where they were are There's only Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:30:00 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Can Father Yells ha ha ha ha >>>Monster Movie is essential for 'Father Cannot Yell' which is an extraordinary track. One night in a friend's flat in London this track so turned my head that I went & bought everything by Can up to Flow Motion in the course of about 6 months or so. I'd still choose either this or Halleluwah or Pinch or Aumgn or Spoon or The Damo Peel Session or Uphill or Future Days or... no choosing a favourite Can song is just silly The thing to know about Monster Movie is that if you get either Cannibalism 1 or Anthology compilation it's all included except for one track which is probably the weakest thing they recorded prior to Flow Motion. However most tracks from Tago Mago, Soup (Ege Bam Yasi) & Mother Sky (Soundtracks) are edited versions on these compilations and the longer versions are without exception the versions to hear... Buy Tago Mago Only a total dork could dislike that one! It's also the Faust fans' Can album of choice. Of course you should also try to hear everything by Faust, the first couple of Neu albums & everything by Kraftwerk up to at least Man Machine. Popol Vuh, Cluster & Amon Duul also made some good recordings but these are only records I've heard in passing... Only other early 70s German band I've really checked out is Guru Guru, who have a few great tracks early on (notably Spaceship) but are often a bit too overblown & bigrock cheesy. I was always curious about the Nazgul after they recorded a great satanic-Faust kinda 12" a few years back - did anyone ever hear their early 70s recordings? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:29:23 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Handy When You Bit the Hand The version of Underwater Experiences to which I refered probably shouldn't be considered finished, as Wire ditched it as they felt it wasn't working and they couldn't recapture the atmosphere of the demo. This is also one reason why many songs weren't presented as part of the Brochure Exhibit - the atmosphere was impossible to recapture. I'm also not sure how much production Mike Thorne did on the Chairs Missing out-take version of UW. I only heard it once. It was the worst version of the five. There's a demo version of French Film which is done in fast shouty son of pink flag mode which didn't make the cut for BTC. There's also an early demo take of I Should've Known Better (aka The Upsetters) which is a bit of a mess and a demo for Used To played as choppy chords as opposed to big drone. I've certainly never heard, or heard of, any finished 154 period songs that were ditched. And the songs on that album are arguably amongst the most finished and complex and perfectly realised that Wire ever recorded, which perhaps explains why so few were played between RFH and Edinburgh. To free your mind And break your neck Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:28:42 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Blade Runner (Aliens Got Bored) Much like HR Giger's eerie sets and nightmare creations for the phenomenal Alien, Blade Runner is a great film to have on in the background whilst listening to music. The plot and dialogue aren't necessary - the atmospheres created by the visuals are what these films are all about for me. I actually found Dick's Electric Sheep book a bit nice'n'cute compared to the film (which I saw before reading the book), and also thought it fell down plotwise as there was a sudden twist in one of his ubiquitous reality shifts which just seemed like a total cop out, compared to the genius moves of the latter hallucinogenic stages of the 3 Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch or the subtle shifts of The Man in the High Castle or Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said. To be fair to Ridley Scott, it would probably be even more difficult to make an effective film version of any of Dick's books than the expensive logistical nightmare of filming Burroughs in rapid cut up edit mode. I enjoyed the Naked Lunch film, but it was a pathetic experience compared to the hilarious book, and the effects were rubbish too. It would be interesting if someone would attempt to film Cities of the Red Night though. Anyone who got the Alien being realised is *not* a wanker!!!! I've certainly watched Alien more than any other film. Fair enough, Blade Runner is pretty dull in comparison... Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:36:47 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] God Save The Ol' Queen Remix (Off the Track) *Ever feel like you've been cheated? *Your future dream is a shopping spree *They made you a moron Kiddy signs Rotten contract >>>>Good god someone shoot the poor fviker and put him out of his misery. Come back and say that AFTER you've made a record even a quarter fine as Metal Box, yer gobshite git. Lydon will just have to join the queue behind all control vectors be they political, corporate or religious; various chat show hosts and perpetraitors of the Britpap dadrock farce. If anyone can find any singles that encapsulate the rot of society and spew out as much relevant vitriol as the first 4 Pistols singles then... Why assume god to be good? Has this god ever been more than a windowless monad? In 1964 Philip K Dick wrote: "My own feeling, especially in the view of the very recent laboratory findings that some connection exists between schizophrenia and subsecretions of the adrenal gland, is this: "The sane man does not know that everything is possible." In other words, the mentally ill person at one time or another - -knew too much-. And as a result, so to speak, his head shut down. A little knowledge may be a dangerous thing, but gadzooks - what about too much knowledge? Death, as a factor of reality, perhaps should not be known about at all, or, if that's impossible, then as little as one can manage. James Stephens in his poem "The Whisperer" (from 'Insurrections', Dublin 1912), informs us of something I distinctly am not glad to know, but now I know it, and I guess one finds it out sooner or later. Ironically it is that god himself feels this: I fashion you, and then for weal or woe, By business through, I care not how ye go, Or struggle, win or lose, nor do I want to know. One doesn't have to depend on hallucinations, one can unhinge oneself by many other roads." Meanwhile that wily ol' goat Burroughs observed that the paranoid is the one who knows what's really happening, and often quoted Hassan I Sabbah, the old man of the mountain: "Nothing is true, Everything is permitted." off the track off the track Mr Bradley Mr Martin Know Future? "We're all here to go into space" (Germ Ship / Aliens on Board) Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Giddy Motors - Make it Pop (www.fat-cat.co.uk) Lee Ranaldo: "We should kill time, shut it down!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 03:08:57 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Blade Runner (Aliens Got Bored) on 12/07/02 01:28, Bill Hick at umur_ot@hotmail.com wrote: > I enjoyed the Naked > Lunch film, but it was a pathetic experience compared to the hilarious book, > and the effects were rubbish too. Have to disagree with you here - NL is one of my most favourite ever films and the best Cronenberg did. I also like the fact that it took a different approach to the book, and more than being an adaptation of it is a sort of a fictional 'the making of the book Naked Lunch'. It's one of the best drugs films ever made. As usual with Cronenberg, the casting is exceptional, with Peter Weller, Judy Davis and Ian Holm at their best. And the effects were great - some of the best Cronenberg hybrids created. Yes, they're cheap and trashy - but this is cronenbergland. A film masterpiece. giluz - -- INDYMEDIA ISRAEL http://www.indymedia.org.il/ Indymedia is a collective of independent media ogranizations and hundreds of journalists offering grassroots, non-corporate coverage of major protests. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:08:49 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re:[idealcopy] Nice Streets Ab Ovo Bill has been unusually civil of late: >Did anyone catch the Flaming Lips & Bob Mould tour? That was fun as well. I was there. Flaming Lips were real fine. Wayne Coyne should market the chest-mounted strobe light as a fashion accessory. >Quite surprising to see Mould looking chirpy and playing 'Makes No Sense at >All.' I guess now he has no band no one complains when he obliterates >everything w/guitar. I'm not a fan, although the other half of Kids Indestructible worships him. Bob plays solo guitar with backing tapes and runs up and down the stage which brought back unpleasant memories of Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine for me. I left the rest of The Spiders from Mars to watch while I got drinks. >Anyone heard the new Bob Mould album? >"Do you have an opinion?" My partner in Pop loves it cos its Bob Mould plus Electronics which is his two favourite things. However, he reckons a wonderful opportunity has been missed as surely instead of 'Modulate' he should have called in 'Mould-ulate'!!!! >turntable, tape, disc rotations this week: > >Flaming Lips (every album) I still never got round to copying Zaireeka for you like the pig I am. I take it you found another source? >Wire - Nice Streets (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Would you care to share the joke with the rest of us? >+ the thunder storm that just started outside This is because Suede have just come on stage at Old Trafford. Proof that God has no time for microwaved frozen britpop..... Yeah I went to see Bowie. He was alright actually. If that makes me sad then read on: >Spotted yesterday in Manchester's Vinyl Exchange: > >A copy of Ab Ovo CD with description 'Bruce Gilbert ex Wire.' This error has >now been corrected... You sad fucker! ________________________________________ Kids Indestructible, BCB and Project 506 Josephs Well, Leeds, Weds 17th July. http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:07:24 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] July 20 logistics Ian asked >> What's the nearest tube station to the ICA? Well I guess it's Picadilly Circus or Charing X http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?X=529500&Y=180000&width=500&height=30 0&client=public&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&sc ale=10000&advanced=&multimap.x=366&multimap.y=58 So, who's going then? AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:27:56 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Can Father Yells ha ha ha ha On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 12:30:00AM +0100, Bill Hick wrote: > Buy Tago Mago > Only a total dork could dislike that one! > Ladies and gentlemen, we are floating in consensus, I believe. > It's also the Faust fans' Can album of choice. > > Of course you should also try to hear everything by Faust, the first couple of > Neu albums & everything by Kraftwerk up to at least Man Machine. I've *heard*, and like, bits of the first three Neu! albums; I own most of the Kraftwerk, though I don't actually (yet) have TMM. My favourite of theirs is Trans-Europe Express, though. Hearing Neu!, I saw where Primal Scream got Shoot Speed/Kill Light from - and the more time passes, the more I become convinced that XTRMNTR is an absolutely classic album... Andrew - -- "While you make pretty speeches, I'm being cut to shreds." - - Radiohead, "Like Spinning Plates" ('I Might Be Wrong: Live Recordings') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:30:15 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Gigs in London/Scotland On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 01:39:58AM +0200, giluz wrote: > A friend of mine is gonna visit London & Scotland for three weeks since the > end of July. Any interesting gigs I could refer him to? *Where* in Scotland? It's really quite a big place, you know... :) Andrew (from Edinburgh) - -- "Now, you can't change the way she feels, But you could put your arms around her..." - Massive Attack, "Protection" ('Protection') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:35:33 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Bolin or Cruce? Yes 'Bill', me and my mate karen was there... it was really rather good...BCG seemed to enjoy it too A A Question: Did anyone observe That Godfather Gilbert's Icelandic Motor Organ Kitchen Experiment at the weekend? It was recorded by Mixing It and I'm assuming that at least a portion might be broadcast on R3 this Sunday. ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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