From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #221 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, July 4 2002 Volume 05 : Number 221 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] off with her head... [Alistair Tear ] RE: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial [Mark McQuitty ] Re: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Well I wonder [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Well I wonder [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Margaret On The Guillotine [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! ["dan b] Re: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Black ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Murnau's nosferatu [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Black [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Black ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: SF ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] off with her head... ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! ["Keith] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! [Tim Subject: [idealcopy] off with her head... Bartman asked >So many great >anti-Thatcher lyrics at the time... [btw, what is she up to nowadays?] http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_621570.html 'we still hate margaret thatcher'...terry edwards later A np. the flaming lips - the soft bulletin ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:43:16 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! > >Elton John type movies (you know big spectacles, > >rather boring). > > elton john's oversized glasses may be silly looking, but i never thought of > them as boring ;oD no but *he* is!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:52:42 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off with her head... > >So many great > >anti-Thatcher lyrics at the time... [btw, what is she up to nowadays?] > > http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_621570.html > > 'we still hate margaret thatcher'...terry edwards > later > A I had another the keith down as a candidate for this when I first heard the story! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:52:42 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off with her head... > >So many great > >anti-Thatcher lyrics at the time... [btw, what is she up to nowadays?] > > http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_621570.html > > 'we still hate margaret thatcher'...terry edwards > later > A I had another the keith down as a candidate for this when I first heard the story! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:53:06 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial I can't recall ever posting a 'recent listenings' to the list. Nowadays it seems I hardly ever sit down and listen to stuff. I don't know how you lot do it :) But I digress, as last night after kids bedtime and the usual chores I actually did sit down and re-discovered a few tunes. May I share one? Song by It's Immaterial Lovely album. IMHO a genuine gentle pop genius classic. (Along with the first album 'Life's Hard And Then You Die'). Great tunes, unusual arrangements and beautifully observed lyrics. Anyone else ever into these? Does anyone what they're up to nowadays? MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 06:14:28 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial didn't the mainman end up in the christians? i think he was involved with one of the wah incarnations too. hmmm , not much of a cv there then. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 12:22:40 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Well I wonder > What I meant was it wasn't till the 3rd album that they delivered a classic. > MIM is OK if a bit worthy. It does contain one of the greatest and most > overlooked Smiths songs, Well I wonder. ...wich is my fave Smiths song ever! If MiM isn't a classic I dunno what else is! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:23:42 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: RE: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial No. Really? If that's true then it takes the edge off things for me. Oh well, I've still got the CD's. MarkM - -----Original Message----- From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com [mailto:PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Sent: 04 July 2002 11:14 To: Mark.McQuitty@dickinsoncontrol.co.uk; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial didn't the mainman end up in the christians? i think he was involved with one of the wah incarnations too. hmmm , not much of a cv there then. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 11:28:34 +0100 From: "Fergus Kelly" Subject: [idealcopy] Cape inFearior Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 11:39:17 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Remake [Remodel] >Name a modern remake that improves the original.... > >Mark For me that definitly must be Cape Fear! Great that [stars from the original movie from 1963] Robert Mitchum and Gregory peck also played in Martin Scorcese's 1991 version. Also agree with Paul on Nosferatu. Bart Sorry Bart, I just can't agree there. DeNiro is atrociously hammy and over the top. His accent is appalling too (though powerful in certain films, he's essentially an actor of limited range in my opinion). Mitchum is WAY better in the original. Far more threatening in an understated way. The girl is a lot more innocent too (different era of course). All in all, the original's much better. One of my favourite soundtracks. I don't think it's fair to pitch Murnau against Herzog, as their approaches are so different, and so far apart in time (1927 - 1978). Murnau's vision was an stunning example of German expressionist cinema, whereas Herzog was more lyrical and almost documentary-like in places. Great movies both of them! Great Popol Vuh soundtrack to Herzog. Fergus http://www.whisperinggallery.com/wg/personnel/kelly/index.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:04:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial << didn't the mainman end up in the christians? i think he was involved with one of the wah incarnations too.<< Henry Priestman out of the Yachts was the instrumentalist and songwriter in the Christians. He was involved in It's Immaterial, but wasn't the main man - It's Immaterial were a duo with various sidemen I think. Don't think he had much to do with Wah! though given the incestuous nature of the Liverpool scene he probably turned up somewhere along the line playing keyboards. >>hmmm , not much of a cv there then. p >> None whatsoever for the It's Immaterial blokes. Henry's was pretty good though. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:06:23 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Well I wonder << If MiM isn't a classic I dunno what else is! >> Er, The Queen is Dead. Waay better all round than MiM, and one of the albums of the 80s. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 10:35:24 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial > Henry Priestman out of the Yachts was the instrumentalist and songwriter in > the Christians. He was involved in It's Immaterial, but wasn't the main man - > It's Immaterial were a duo with various sidemen I think. ////i misunderstood then , i thought HP was one of the core members. never really heard much of the yachts , together with the flys a key Nice New Wave act. natural habitat of whose albums is of course the bargain bin. Don't think he had > much to do with Wah! though given the incestuous nature of the Liverpool > scene he probably turned up somewhere along the line playing keyboards. ////he definitely plays on the peel session 12" (story of the blues etc). not sure if people were really "in" those wah acts or just hired hands. apart from a couple of good early singles , a grossly overrated act i always thought. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 18:00:09 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Well I wonder >>If MiM isn't a classic I dunno what else is! > > Er, The Queen is Dead. > > Waay better all round than MiM, and one of the albums of the 80s. > > Mark I remember when MiM came out it just made such an impact on me. Doesn't change the fact that I also rate TQiD a fucking brilliant [and perhaps a more coherent] album! On a 2 month journey I made with some friends driving through Northern Africa I played a tape with both albums on it a LOT. Still get that sense of adventure listening to 'em... Bart [in a tutu] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 18:09:37 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Margaret On The Guillotine >> So many great >> anti-Thatcher lyrics at the time... [btw, what is she up to nowadays?] > http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_621570.html Why not go for the real thing, cause this only seems silly... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 18:13:57 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! > i'd get me hat and coat, but it's so friggin hot here i'm in my underwear. [whispering] Just don't say you're also feelin vulnerable or keith is going to get you Paul! ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 18:32:14 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Cape [in]Fear[ior] >> For me that definitly must be Cape Fear! >> Great that [stars from the original movie from 1963] Robert Mitchum and >> Gregory peck also played in Martin Scorcese's 1991 version. >> Also agree with Paul on Nosferatu. Fergus: > Sorry Bart, I just can't agree there. DeNiro is atrociously hammy and over > the top. His accent is appalling too (though powerful in certain films, he's > essentially an actor of limited range in my opinion). Mitchum is WAY better > in the original. Far more threatening in an understated way. The girl is a > lot more innocent too (different era of course). All in all, the original's > much better. One of my favourite soundtracks. DeNiro certainly was over the top sometimes, but imo he's one of the few actors who can get away with it. Perhaps he's like the jesus & Mary Chain, not a very large range, but within these limits he excels. Funny thing is I think Mitchum "suffers" from the same thing... What I didn't like at all was Nick Nolte's performance... very under par! I guess I'm just a sucker for that Scorcese/DeNiro combination. [doesn't mean I didn't like the original though, on the contrary!]. > I don't think it's fair to pitch Murnau against Herzog, as their approaches > are so different, and so far apart in time (1927 - 1978). Murnau's vision > was an stunning example of German expressionist cinema, whereas Herzog was > more lyrical and almost documentary-like in places. Great movies both of > them! Great Popol Vuh soundtrack to Herzog. Well, I wasn't taking this contest too seriously. Of course both films are excellent in their own way, but as I said earlier, I've witnessed some of Herzog's Delft-takes as a young boy... gives it just that little bit extra... especially when I saw it on screen later, beautifully edited 'n all... Murnau's version I liked for different reasons e.g. the grahpicness of it - the shadows, the wonderfull black and white! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:26:19 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! hmm ... interesting interpretation. my experienced of that time as mired in the doldrums was skewed by personal developments -- 5/84 was when my first wife lost interest for a few months in earning a paycheck & when we moved from a large metropolis (phoenix) to my rural arkansas homeland, so for financial & geographical reasons my contact with what was going on in music was pretty much severed, to the extent that about all i remember buying during the ensuing year & a half was a screaming blue messiahs 12" & the debut lp's by run-dmc (the move back to arkansas *really* ended [forever, it seems] my connection to rap & funk, as unlike phx there was no "urban" radio station), fgth, kommunity fk (great old u.s. goth act), the jamc & bronski beat. oh -- &, via mail order, big black's 2nd record. over here, i guess albini & co. were heading into their prime, which in retrospect was pretty significant. ditto for fellow chicago band naked raygun (whom i didn't discover for another half-decade, alas). & if i'd only known that the mekons were in the process of completely reinventing themselves & laying the groundwork for becoming my favorite band of the early '90s (wir[e] having gone awol) ... & i *did*, at least, get a dub of the redskins' neither washington nor moscow (had been bowled over by the lean on me 12" back in phx) & the stockholm monsters' alma mater (though not until a few months ago did i start listening to it & the rest of their stuff) sometime during that period. otherwise, looking back, hardcore punk was busily becoming more generic & boring by the day (even the dead kennedy's were past the point of putting out good singles, minor threat had broken up, bad brains were past their prime, the proletariat were on-again, off-again ... leaving perhaps only the extremely genre-defying false prophets worth paying attention to) & of course across the pond crass had called it a day & about the only top-flight anarcho lp still to come out was (if memory serves) the instigators' nobody listens anymore. i suppose goth was really starting to take shape, but most of that passed me by for years (though in retrospect i would've been greatly cheered by the lorries' talk about the weather & the preceding singles had i heard them). ad infinitum ... jesus, even the ever-reliable (at least through the '80s) cure weren't being particularly reliable back then, were they? not that i paid any attention to anything post-charlotte sometimes till sometime in '86 anyway ... damnation -- i even lost track of the fall from hex enduction hour till '87 or so, when i chanced across a bargain bin cassette of wonderful & frightening world at a mall store. what a bleak time ... dan >Fro my money, the post-punk momentum carried right through 1982 and into 83. >It wasn't till 84 things were starting to go flat. > >The NME-sponsored moves into glossy pop meant a lot of previously innovative >bands decided to go all out for chart! pop! success! So bands like ACR/Cabs >Gangof4, even the Fall with the addition of Brix all made records that were >more commercial, slick and less interesting than before. > >The new groups that started coming through in 83/84 tended to be more >conventional guitar groups (no bad thing at the time, especially if it was >with a twist...) like the Smiths or REM, which were then followed by the C86 >bands (which was again NME sponsored and a means or re-establishing cred with >a new generation who though Kid Creole was a load of old twaddle. Mind you, >most of the old generation thought that too... > >What you got was a livelier gig scene than for a while as labels like >Creation signed any guitar group that moved. Much of what was around was >60s-influenced (Byrds/Velvets etc) in the same way that the current crop of >bands is 70s-influenced (Stooges/Ramones). Nice, but rarely essential and >certainly not breaking many barriers... > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:37:52 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's Immaterial > Henry Priestman out of the Yachts was the instrumentalist and songwriter in > the Christians. He was involved in It's Immaterial, but wasn't the main man - > It's Immaterial were a duo with various sidemen I think. Don't think he had > much to do with Wah! though given the incestuous nature of the Liverpool > scene he probably turned up somewhere along the line playing keyboards. > > >>hmmm , not much of a cv there then. p >> > > None whatsoever for the It's Immaterial blokes. Henry's was pretty good > though. He's certainly got nothing to be ashamed of, but then I thought The Christians were OK. I can't imagine they've aged too well - probably got big 80's production written all over them - but the early 45's (Forgotten Town in particular) were pretty interesting at the time. Scouse Soul, with great harmonies. They'd reformed last I heard and were playing a decent sized tour. Incidentally, a contemporary of It's Immaterial was, of course, Colin Verncombe(Black) who later went onto considerable commercial success. He played a gig in Chester awhile back, and though I didn't go myself a mate told me about it. Apparently Verncombe was late coming on and went to the mic to apologise, saying something like "I'm sorry I'm late, but my mum hasn't arrived yet". Everyone laughed, thinking he was joking, but then shortly after an older lady walked in, waved to Verncombe, he waved back and then started his set. Phew! Rock'n'roll eh!!! (Nice touch though!) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:42:44 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Colin's Resonating Playlist Autechre - ? An exclusive played by Jim Backhouse before Colin took over, this is actually more my idea of 'Future Rock' than anything they played from the 'Sonic Mook Experiment' CD... OOPS! Liars - Loose Nuts on the Veladrome The noise is neat, but initially the glamwrecked hectoring vocal chant seemed to get in the way, despite some funny lyrics. It grew in after repeated rewinds for the next track went too far and seeing them live sealed it. Thumbs up! They're touring UK again in early August but sadly pathetic softrocker indieshmindie Peelfaves that go by the name 'miss black america' will be supporting them. Think I'll sit that one out in Bar Centro. Wire - Nice Streets (Above) This is going to blow R&B01 out the water in September. Colin now better upside down. That godfather Gilbert drones in full effect. Daleks invade: Nice Streets-ah, Nice Streets-ah, Nice Streets: a Bar! Pixel Tan An OK band from Rhode Island. Nothing special, female attitude vocals, electrorock wavepunk tinges from the Troubleman mix comp if I remember rightly. Liked by Liars. Melt Banana - Neat Neat Neat Possibly the greatest cover version ever recorded? Ups the energy of the best Damned song to almost impossible levels, piles on a good dose of radio noise erruption and detonates! If you haven't heard this band yet you can join the Official Kids Indestructible Uncool Normal Folkstream Guards club. Cecil Taylor old jazz guy doing nice piano chops, not something I'd imagine Colin listening to much, but the Liars are well into him and this sounds fine to me. One of those old fellas who always sounded interesting but who I'd never got round to listening to. Must get some CDs out of Wrongbrain Wilson's Holy Library soon. The Ssion - Get AIDS off a Toliet Seat performance art mate o'Liars. My guess is that you would probably need to see the performance as this just seems like throaway toss, appropriate considering the title. Adult - Paranoid Vision 'The name to drop,' says Colin, but the track begins to irritate me with it's dated 80s electrorock dabblings. If you like early Muters such as the Normal / Robert Rental this might appeal. But somehow I can't get visions of Hazel O'Connor's 'Breaking Glass' film out of my head whilst this plays. XBXRX Connection failed & track was over by the time I got back online. Track from a compilation I have is actually pretty similar to liars but perhaps not as tight. Colin's Silo Remix You've all heard Swim Team 2 by now, right? It's on that. Roads - War Day A surprising forthcoming Swim single from a band who sound like they learnt to play by riffing along to the first couple of Saints albums. The guitar solo is great, but it sounds very twentieth century. They probably won't give your old Buzzcocks & Magazine records too much serious competition... Fat Truckers - Fix It Colin shocks the London area with naughty swear words from the Sonic Mook compilation. This one has a great bass line which sounds like Sonic Youth's Goosong but it's much less interesting than SY. Some bloke going on about calling an engineer. Flux Information Sciences This band just fuckin' shreds! This is a song about an erection and radioactive heartbreak with a lo-fi synth pulse, not one of the piledriver Big Black / Neubauten / Cop Shoot Cop / Pussy Galore junk metal minute noisebursts that dominate their essential Young God album 'Private / Public.' Probably from their Love album? Segues neatly into... Wire - Raft Ants A possibly unfinished mix of a song which might appear on R&B02 which may well form the bridge from 'yer basic thing' / fastfirst aesthetic of R&B01. So who are Wire then? New Red Southern Blasts! Missy Elliot remixed by Jack Knife Lee This could almost be a Colin Newman remix, but there's something missing (that small essential fraction). The funny thing is I didn't recognise it but about halfway through opined that it was the worst thing they'd played so far. Coming after Wire nothing was likely to cut it, but when Colin jokingly asked why ME wasn't doing her next record with a death metal band I couldn't help thinking that the answer is that most death metal bands have catchier tunes... The Locust y I would love England to meet Locust's masterpiece: noisy, psychotic, better than spunking Bernard Manning handbag! I know how they play and haven't sorry tale of reissues or archive recordings - Best new band in the premier fairy w/finger trapped in public heathen puppy. Terror Keyboard Unwound to my ears, obscured miniature piglove may seem like a brainy recipe for pixies reference chasing security. GoGoGo Airheart - In Case of Evidence Enon's driver gave a me a copy of their most recent CD when Enon stayed at my house recently. It's quite good, and in parts reminds me of the Make Up. The connection failed again during this number but it seemed like one of their more laidback ditties. In Euro Cameraman A frankly shite New Zealand band, the worst thing so far. Plastic Venus - Lola Shameless plug for swim back catalog, but this sounds fine in a Lush if they'd ever been any good kind of way. Erase Errata They are playing in Manchester in September. The Liars and Thurston Moore rate them highly. They sing a song about spot removal with the dry ice method. I don't exactly relate to it. Ikara Colt - Your Vain Attempts I've heard a lot fromn this band by now and always thought they were Ok, but nothing too exciting really. This one has grown on me to the point where I might go and buy one of their records. It's a bit different from the live set they did for Peel in that I didn't recall any cheap keyboard beebling on that, but maybe I wasn't paying such close attention. Can - Vitamin C Liars singer said it was his favourite song. If you haven't heard of Can by now you can consider yourself a bit out of touch to say the least. There was a bit more but I can't be bothered to listen to it right now. On the Slide You Never Know Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:51:59 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! > > i'd get me hat and coat, but it's so friggin hot here i'm in my underwear. > > [whispering] Just don't say you're also feelin vulnerable or keith is going > to get you Paul! ;-) > > Bart > Grrrrr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:06:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Black <> Now this has triggered a half-remembered NME feature (somewhere in the jumble of trivial nonsense that passes for my brain) in which Black were, improbably, compared to Wire, and claimed to be strongly influenced by our heroes. This was very early on - long before Wonderful Life and when Black was still a proper 3-piece band. Obviously having a singer called Colin was a similarity, and one of the other members may even have been called Graham. Or Bruce. There was a picture of them looking suitably austere and Wirey. Made a point of looking out for any records by them, but never actually got round to buying or even hearing their indie singles. Next time I read about them they'd turned into a synth duo and clearly sounded bugger all like Wire. Though you could argue not a million miles from He Said Take Care. Anybody got any pre-fame Black singles? Keith? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 22:39:37 +0200 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] OT - young activist found dead A 20 year old activist in Indymedia Israel (and countless other organisations) was found dead yesterday in her flat, just above the Tel-Aviv Indymedia office, for no apparent reason (no drugs or any kind of suicide). I didn't know her too well but she was the kind of person that's so lively, witty, funny and charming, that you're just happy whenever she's around. I was there a few minutes after they found her body and in my mind the picture of her body in a stretcher, with just her barefoot feet, dirty from going around naked all the time, sticking out of the sheet, is still reeling endlessly. She was the kind of person that turned demonstrations into happy carnivals. She was also responsible for giving our minister of communications a pie in the face (the only kind of incident like this that ever happened in israel, and yes - he certainly deserved it), an incident that coincidentally happened today, the day of her funeral, exactly a year go. Her funeral was painfully silent. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 20:54:28 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Black > Next time I read about them > they'd turned into a synth duo and clearly sounded bugger all like Wire. > Though you could argue not a million miles from He Said Take Care. > > Anybody got any pre-fame Black singles? Keith? > > Mark Just the one. More Than The Sun, from 1984 or 1985 depending on whether - bizarrely enough - you believe the record or the sleeve! Even this is on a major label (WEA) though. Picked it up for about 15p at a record fair in about '85 if I remember rightly... From the sleeve, it would appear that they were a duo then (and both tracks are co-compositions with 'Dickie' - any ideas who he is?) It's not dis-similar to what came later, but is more overblown and string laden - and Colin bellows a bit compared with his later so-laid-back and almost monotone crooning. (And Colin smiles on the cover. Don't recall much of that later on). No obvious Wire influences at all that I can see. More like an 80's Scott Walker IMO. Good single if you like that sort of thing though. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 22:14:10 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Murnau's nosferatu on 04/07/02 12:28, Fergus Kelly at fkelly88@hotmail.com wrote: > I don't think it's fair to pitch Murnau against Herzog, as their approaches > are so different, and so far apart in time (1927 - 1978). Murnau's vision > was an stunning example of German expressionist cinema Haven't seen Herzog's version but you really can't compare a silent film to a talkie, especially in regards to Murnau. One of the first directors to explore the possibilities of the cinematic mise-en-scene. You could say most films made use techniques that Murnau developed, not unlike other silent film directors whose contributions were so crucial that everything is based on or derived from something they did. As to the film itself, and the way it tells the Dracula story (Murnau changed the name to Nosferatu after Bram Stoker's family threatened to sue), well - I haven't seen Herzog so I can't compare. I'm sure Bart didn't mean to imply that Murnau's film was not good. I remember having serious nightmares for a long time after watching a sequence of the film (the one where Nosferatu wakes up from his coffin), and only later, when I studied Film, realised where this scene was from. I once tried to play it with Faust's Nosferatu CD as the soundtrack, but it wasn't the same length as the film. I later learned that the CD was edited and could not be really used as a soundtrack. Incidentally, it was released in 1922 and not 1928. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:19:50 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Black << From the sleeve, it would appear that they were a duo then (and both tracks are co-compositions with 'Dickie' - any ideas who he is?) It's not dis-similar to what came later, but is more overblown and string laden - and Colin bellows a bit compared with his later so-laid-back and almost monotone crooning. (And Colin smiles on the cover. Don't recall much of that later on).<< That's the synth duo line-up. There is one single on an indie before that, with a 3-piece band line-up not including Dickie. According to the Virgin Encyclopaedia of Indie & New Wave, this is called Human Features. The book also reveals that Colin Vearncombe started in a punk band called The Epileptic Tits. You couldn't make it up :-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 21:37:36 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Black > The book also reveals that Colin Vearncombe started in a punk band called The > Epileptic Tits. > > You couldn't make it up :-) > > Mark if anyone SHOULDN'T have been in a band called The Epileptic Tits.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:50:55 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: SF - ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Walkingshaw > On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 01:38:23AM +0200, giluz wrote: > > Neal Stephenson - though he does suffer from the Gibson syndrome (anything > > you write is not as good as your 1st novel - Stepghenson's Snow Crash, > > Gibson's Neuromancer), > > Superb author - and just to be awkward, I prefer The Diamond Age *and* > Cryptonomicon to Snow Crash. The guy has no idea how to end a novel, > though. :) - ------------------ I really didn't get on with Snow Crash (I found it too derivative of the Gibson school and actually started skipping it, which I almost never do, around the bit where he goes to sea, ) and haven't got round to the other two, but your preference for them is encouraging. Although I read so little these date and Crytonomicon is so bloody BIG. - ----------- > In the modern authors, I'd like to add Ken MacLeod, whose Black Plan > set of novels (The Star Fraction in particular, but also The Stone Canal, > The Cassini Division and the Sky Road) are *very* much worth your time; > and though most of you will have heard of him, Iain M. Banks' "Use of > Weapons" and "The Player of Games" - though I prefer his writing of > non-SF as Iain Banks, particularly "The Crow Road". Listees might well > enjoy "Espedair Street", his mock-rock-autobiography, too... > Andrew - ------------ Ken MacLeod is a real victim of my reading decline in the last 10 years - someone I always meant to get around to. I've unreasonably taken against him, however, as I perceive him unwittingly to be the reason why my favourite author of that period, Ian R MacLeod, has virtually no public presence in the UK despite living in Sutton Colefield (I'm assuming that the SF publishers think one MacLeod in the market-place is enough, which is the only possible reason I can come up with). Ian R MacLeod was first published in Interzone and has written about 30 short stories / novellas often in the American magazines, each one radically different from the next. I've read most of them and I haven't come across one which is less than very well written and original - at his best he's remarkable. From this list's pov the most interesting story would be 'Snodgrass', narrated by a John Lennon who got chucked out of the Beatles before they were famous. His best story is probably 'The Summer Isles', centered around an English Mosely figure who succeeds in rising to power in the 30s (disturbingly plausibly this). He's had one collection published, from a small press in the US and one novel, which was har-back only in the US. A tremendous writer, well worth seeking out. I intend to reply to Giluz off-list in more detail and will copy you in but I'll spare the list from me boring on at length about SF in general. another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:13:39 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off with her head... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury To: Keith Knight ; Wire (E-mail) ; Alistair Tear Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off with her head... > > http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_621570.html > I had another the keith down as a candidate for this when I first heard the > story! > > ------ Not guilty, but I admire the action - Tony Banks MP has been blathering about how it's unacceptable to deface this 'artwork' but putting a statue of Thatcher on show in a public place is just asking for it... another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:58:21 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! In your circumstances, Keith, about the best I can recommend is Film Four which isn't ideal as it's telly not cinema, contains it's share of crap, requires you to have satellite or cable and costs money, but otherwise will deliver foreign and independent films to a reasonable level. I finally got to see 'In the Bedroom' at Luton Library last night - fine until the last half hour, although part of me was thinking I could have stayed at home and got more satisfaction from watching one of the Bergman films I have on tape. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury > Yeah, if we think the current 'popular' music situation is crap, the > 'movies' are even worse. Unless you live in a major city - and I don't - all > you get within reasonable travelling distance over here are the Hollywood > biggies. I only got to see The Man Who Wasn't There at the cinema last year > because I'd gone away for the weekend, and the Coen Bros are hardly > underground nowadays. Otherwise, it's pretty much just stuff that's great > for the whole family, or Elton John type movies (you know big spectacles, > rather boring). > > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:23:24 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Flaming Lips Zaireeka The latest issue of 'Uncut' claims that the new Flaming Lips is 'the greatest album released in Uncut's lifetime' [ i.e. the last five years or so ]. Not on the evidence of the track on the cover-mounted CD, it's not. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Pietromonaco To: Idealcopy Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:23 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Flaming Lips Zaireeka > > >> this was the mailing list that was interested in the 4 CD set by the > >> Flaming Lips called "Zaireeka". > >----------- > >Has anyone ever played this on 4 different CD players, and if so > what's it > >like??? > > > > > > We managed 3 players last night. It's the first time I've ever owned > the > CD. It was pretty wild walking around the room and having sound come > out of every corner. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 00:21:00 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] GSTQ OK I succumbed... I wasn't going to, but... I got the 'dance mix' of God Save The Queen. SORRY! What does it sound like? Well...exactly like you'd expect it to really. Is it any good? Well yes and no... I suppose it all depends on whether you think doing a 'dance mix' of GSTQ is a good thing or not. (I don't, but then again...) Hmmm. Possibly my most non-committal posting yet... Who likes/dislikes it out there? Keith NP David Bowie - Cactus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 01:39:59 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! > In your circumstances, Keith, about the best I can recommend is Film Four > which isn't ideal as it's telly not cinema, contains it's share of crap, > requires you to have satellite or cable and costs money, but otherwise will > deliver foreign and independent films to a reasonable level. I've always managed to avoid getting satellite, even if I'd love it for the cricket. I keep saying I'll get it, but... Actually got to see a film I really liked on the telly a couple of weeks back though - A Simple Plan (Dir. Sam Raimi). His Coen Bros connections were there for all to see. Very Fargo. And Billy Bob Thornton was almost unrecognisable. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 01:59:05 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! Keith wrote: >Ah 1986! When things REALLY started picking up again for me after what I >considered a post-81 lull. Personlly I thought 82-85 were pretty dull >overall, even if there were some great records I was still at school in the 80s, and recall 81-84 as a real golden age of Pop. (Depeche Mode, Haircut 100, Human League, Club Tropicana drinks are free...Adam Ant jumping through that stained glass window, Balloons and party hats were the order of the day on TOTP for the duration). But somewhere between Frankie Goes to Hollywood and A-Ha it all went wrong 86 to 89 were truly the dark ages of Pop! These were the days of Bros, Stock Aitken and Waterman, Bon Jovi, Paul Yates fawning over bleeding Terrence Trent D'Arby and INXS, ........and Jive Bunny. and most weeks the charts were clogged with re-issues from the 50s/60s that had either been in a film or a Levis Ad. 50s Retro Chic still horrifies me to this day...I feel nauseous whenever I see a fake Bakerlite wireless or a James Dean poster. _______________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #221 *******************************