From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest)
To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org
Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #220
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idealcopy-digest        Thursday, July 4 2002        Volume 05 : Number 220



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [Andrew]
  Re: [idealcopy] Remake [Remodel]    [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts  [PaulRabjo]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts  [Andrew Wa]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts  ["Keith As]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts  [Andrew Wa]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts  ["Keith As]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [MarkBu]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts  [MarkBursa]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [MarkBu]
  Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Sci-fi / Futuristic films....  [RLynn9@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [MarkBu]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts  ["Keith As]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways honey dripping beehives  [Bart van Damme <]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways honey dripping beehives  ["Keith Astbury" ]
  [idealcopy] Re: there's allways Hope  ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" <bamboo7431@h]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [Eardru]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] Remake [Remodel]           [Ari Britt <luvjazzz@yahoo.com>]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [giluz ]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [RLynn9]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [MarkBu]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [MarkBu]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] You're going home in a Crispy Ambulance  [MarkBursa@aol.co]
  Re: [idealcopy] Interactive Fall concert                [MarkBursa@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!  [Eardru]
  Re: [idealcopy] There's allways honey dripping beehives  [Bart van Damme <]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:41:59 +0100
From: Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 01:59:17AM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote:
[charts]
> OK so I'm sure they won't be everybody's cup of tea here, but there's some
> great 60's pop songs there IMO...

Speaking of the charts, the hot tip for No. 1, or at least highest-new-entry
this week, is apparently not the Prodigy and their distinctly dull new
single.

<tannoy>
*WARNING: WHAT FOLLOWS IS NOT INNOVATIVE. NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY. ALL FANS
OF SOLELY THE AVANT-GARDE (WHICH IS FINE WITH ME), PLEASE PROCEED TO THE 
NEXT MAIL IN AN ORDERLY MANNER.

THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT.*
</tannoy>

It's Idlewild. Yes, *that* one. They're steadily metamorphosing into an
admixture of the Smiths and REM filtered through (falling amounts of) US
hardcore, and their new single "American English" is, well, extremely good
if you like that sort of thing (ie, intelligent, melodic, utterly
non-innovative Big Rock. Fans of early/mid-period U2 or REM circa Lifes
Rich Pageant will adore it).

I'm sure this is a sign of the apocalypse (a bunch of formerly-completely-
shambolic Scots punk-poppers getting their act together and writing the song
they've always been threatening to), but it's a sufficiently good song
that it's the first single I bought since Gonzales' "Take me to Broadway"
last year. (Admittedly, I *have* followed Idlewild since the release of 
"Hope is Important".)

All the signs have been that Idlewild were going to break big: this could 
be the single that does it. I like this, because a lot of suburban three-CD-
a-year types will see the Captain EP cheap in HMV or wherever, pick it up,
put it in their cars and blow their speakers. :)

Andrew


- -- 
"I know it's true, all I do counts for confusion,
 Innocence making a case for illusion..."
- - the Delgados, "Everything Goes Around the Water" ('Peloton')
 adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 11:39:17 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Remake [Remodel]

> Name a modern remake that improves the original....
>
> Mark

For me that definitly must be Cape Fear!
Great that [stars from the original movie from 1963] Robert Mitchum and
Gregory peck also played in Martin Scorcese's 1991 version.

Also agree with Paul on Nosferatu.

Bart

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 06:00:59 -0400
From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts

well i havn't heard this idlewild single but i saw them at reading 2000 and they were awful. what i would categorise as generic indie-jump-up-and-down-shouty-guitar-music , seemed like it might be really big in student union discos to fill in some time between ash and muse. if that new single is as good as you say then they've improved about 5000% in the meantime. i'll listen out for it. p

ps whatever happened to symposium. thought they were going to be the next big thing of this ilk?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:22:52 +0100
From: Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts

On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 06:00:59AM -0400, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote:

> well i havn't heard this idlewild single but i saw them at reading
> 2000 and they were awful. what i would categorise as generic
> indie-jump-up-and-down-shouty-guitar-music , seemed like it might be
> really big in student union discos to fill in some time between ash
> and muse. if that new single is as good as you say then they've
> improved about 5000% in the meantime. i'll listen out for it. p ps
> whatever happened to symposium. thought they were going to be the
> next big thing of this ilk?

I see quite a bit of difference between Ash and Muse, but then I *am*
in many respects Generic Indie Kid, as I'd hoped the list was aware
by now:
                              | CHECK ALL THAT APPLY
- ------------------------------|---------------------
a) Male, late teens/early 20s | [X]
b) Plays guitar (and/or bass) | [X]
c) Owns (and wears) black     |
   leather jacket             | [X]
d) Student                    | [X]
e) Prone to pointless angst   | [X]
f) Reads NME willingly, but   |
   maintains it's "not as     |
   good as it used to be"     | [X]

When the revolution comes, I bagsy a nice, clean, bit of wall, OK? :)

It's A-listed on Radio 1 at the moment, so if you're listening to
daytime radio (I generally listen to Radios 4 and 5 during the day,
but you never know) you'll probably hear it.

I don't know: Idlewild always had a lot more commitment, it seemed to me, 
than Symposium (who split: half of them are now in Hell is for Heroes,
which is kind of melodic power-pop in a nu-metal style - and not particularly
good.) Symposium's great Career Disaster was an NME interview, where they
aired somewhat unreconstructed views on abortion with respect to women
who had been raped, and got ripped to bits for them unsurprisingly.

It should be noted that Idlewild have a reputation for either being brilliant 
or woeful live, with no middle ground at all, though. Their early stuff is
very noisy, very rough, and their live shows can be a bit of a throwback 
to this. In terms of albums, there's little doubt that "100 Broken Windows"
was a substantial progression (or lurch towards the mainstream) from
"Hope is Important": looks like "The Remote Part" is moving even further
in that direction.

Andrew

- -- 
"Any day now, how's about getting out of this place anyway;
 got a lot of spare time, some of my youth,  and all 
 of my senses on overdrive " - Elbow, "Any Day Now" ('Asleep In The Back') 
 adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:04:47 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts

> I see quite a bit of difference between Ash and Muse, but then I *am*
> in many respects Generic Indie Kid, as I'd hoped the list was aware
> by now:
>                               | CHECK ALL THAT APPLY
> ------------------------------|---------------------
> a) Male, late teens/early 20s | [X]
> b) Plays guitar (and/or bass) | [X]
> c) Owns (and wears) black     |
>    leather jacket             | [X]
> d) Student                    | [X]
> e) Prone to pointless angst   | [X]
> f) Reads NME willingly, but   |
>    maintains it's "not as     |
>    good as it used to be"     | [X]
>

I'm not exactly Generic Indie Kid - I'm now 41, don't go to college and
won't wear a dead cow on my back, but I play gtr, read the NME and can still
do angst with the best of them ; )

And I've certainly been a bit of an indie fan in my time - I even liked The
Close Lobsters - so I looked out for Idlewild when the NME were raving about
them a few yrs back, but I have to admit I've yet to hear anything I
remotely like them. Will listen out for the new single though.

On a similar subject, anyone heard the single by new NME faves The
Listerines ? Any good?

Keith (Generic Indie Dad)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:04:53 +0100
From: Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts

On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 12:04:47PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote:

> On a similar subject, anyone heard the single by new NME faves The
> Listerines ? Any good?

I'll assume you mean the Libertines: um, who let the Who out? Except worse.
They're glib, irritating, cocksure pseudo-Cockneys, and I don't rate them
at all. Obscurity or world-straddling Oasis-like fame await, inevitably.

Andrew

- -- 
"This machine will not, will not communicate,
 These thoughts, and the strain I am under..."
- - Radiohead, 'Street Spirit (Fade Out)' ("The Bends")
 adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:13:52 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts

> > On a similar subject, anyone heard the single by new NME faves The
> > Listerines ? Any good?
>
> I'll assume you mean the Libertines:

hahaha, course I do. Oops! I'd just got up...Actually, The Listerines is
better!!!

> um, who let the Who out? Except worse.
> They're glib, irritating, cocksure pseudo-Cockneys

Come On. I know you want to. Who's gonna be the first person to make a,
yawn, glib irritating cocksure Blur joke here???

>Obscurity or world-straddling Oasis-like fame await, inevitably.

hedging your bets then Andrew ; )

thanks

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:12:00 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

<< >Name a modern remake that improves the original....
 
 always debatable, but if we include "equal but different" as an alternative 
 to "improves" then how about:
 
 nosferatu
 sorcerer (wages of fear)
 the thing (easier to improve when the original is a b movie!) >>

OK< 70s remakes of 30s originals are often better. But I don't really class 
those as "modern"! 

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:20:35 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts

<<                               | CHECK ALL THAT APPLY
 ------------------------------|---------------------
 a) Male, late teens/early 20s | [X]
 b) Plays guitar (and/or bass) | [X]
 c) Owns (and wears) black     |
    leather jacket             | [X]
 d) Student                    | [X]
 e) Prone to pointless angst   | [X]
 f) Reads NME willingly, but   |
    maintains it's "not as     |
    good as it used to be"     | [X]
  >>

I've been all these things ;-)

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:29:20 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

<< It's Idlewild. Yes, *that* one. They're steadily metamorphosing into an
 admixture of the Smiths and REM filtered through (falling amounts of) US
 hardcore, and their new single "American English" is, well, extremely good
 if you like that sort of thing (ie, intelligent, melodic, utterly
 non-innovative Big Rock.<<

A drab record, to be honest. If it had come out in 1986 I might have liked it 
a bit. But it just seems so....1986. 

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:30:22 EDT
From: RLynn9@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Sci-fi / Futuristic films....

hey thanks Bart! i love all these pictures! if anyone is interested in seeing 
pics of the bridge i was blathering on about...go to google.com and type in 
the words: chain of rocks bridge

there lots of great photos

Robert

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:52:58 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

> << It's Idlewild. Yes, *that* one.
>
> A drab record, to be honest. If it had come out in 1986 I might have liked
it
> a bit. But it just seems so....1986.

Ah 1986! When things REALLY started picking up again for me after what I
considered a post-81 lull. Personlly I thought 82-85 were pretty dull
overall, even if there were some great records - The Smiths, 'Fried',
'Relax', New Order, 'Move Me' (Woodentops), 'The Message', Chakk, Shannon's
3 classic 1984 'disco' hits, Cruisers Creek, Death of the European are the
ones that spring immediately to mind as GREAT (IMO), even if they're in no
way my definitive list, but overall I felt those years were lacking
*something*...

Talking of The Woodentops - Anyone ever heard Rolo McGinty's mid 90's dance
thing Pluto. And opinions? Something I always felt like taking a chance on
but never got round to...

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:52:50 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

<< Ah 1986! When things REALLY started picking up again for me after what I
 considered a post-81 lull. Personlly I thought 82-85 were pretty dull
 overall, even if there were some great records - The Smiths, 'Fried',
 'Relax', New Order, 'Move Me' (Woodentops), 'The Message', Chakk, Shannon's
 3 classic 1984 'disco' hits, Cruisers Creek, Death of the European are the
 ones that spring immediately to mind as GREAT (IMO), even if they're in no
 way my definitive list, but overall I felt those years were lacking
 *something*... >>

Fro my money, the post-punk momentum carried right through 1982 and into 83. 
It wasn't till 84 things were starting to go flat.

The NME-sponsored moves into glossy pop meant a lot of previously innovative 
bands decided to go all out for chart! pop! success! So bands like ACR/Cabs 
Gangof4, even the Fall with the addition of Brix all made records that were 
more commercial, slick and less interesting than before.

The new groups that started coming through in 83/84 tended to be more 
conventional guitar groups (no bad thing at the time, especially if it was 
with a twist...) like the Smiths or REM, which were then followed by the C86 
bands (which was again NME sponsored and a means or re-establishing cred with 
a new generation who though Kid Creole was a load of old twaddle. Mind you, 
most of the old generation thought that too...

What you got was a livelier gig scene than for a while as labels like 
Creation signed any guitar group that moved. Much of what was around was 
60s-influenced (Byrds/Velvets etc) in the same way that the current crop of 
bands is 70s-influenced (Stooges/Ramones). Nice, but rarely essential and 
certainly not breaking many barriers...

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:13:52 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's always indie and emotional guitar acts

> > On a similar subject, anyone heard the single by new NME faves The
> > Listerines ? Any good?
>
> I'll assume you mean the Libertines:

hahaha, course I do. Oops! I'd just got up...Actually, The Listerines is
better!!!

> um, who let the Who out? Except worse.
> They're glib, irritating, cocksure pseudo-Cockneys

Come On. I know you want to. Who's gonna be the first person to make a,
yawn, glib irritating cocksure Blur joke here???

>Obscurity or world-straddling Oasis-like fame await, inevitably.

hedging your bets then Andrew ; )

thanks

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 18:03:11 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways honey dripping beehives

For me J&MC's 1985 Psycho Candy was a sort of wake-up-bomb!

Bart [buzzz]



> Ah 1986! When things REALLY started picking up again for me after what I
> considered a post-81 lull. Personlly I thought 82-85 were pretty dull
> overall, even if there were some great records - The Smiths, 'Fried',
> 'Relax', New Order, 'Move Me' (Woodentops), 'The Message', Chakk, Shannon's
> 3 classic 1984 'disco' hits, Cruisers Creek, Death of the European are the
> ones that spring immediately to mind as GREAT (IMO), even if they're in no
> way my definitive list, but overall I felt those years were lacking
> *something*...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:20:56 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways honey dripping beehives

Well I did say it wasn't my definitive lot! Talking of JAMC, I've been
playing Stoned & Dethroned a lot the last few days, cos I fancied hearing
the Radio 2 charms of Sometimes Always again. I know there's general/lazy
consensus that the JAMC made one great album blah blah blah, but I've never
found that to be the case. And S&D sounds REALLY good you know...

Jim Reid apparently guested on a number with Primal Scream last week BTW...

Keith

np smog - knock knock

of course I knew I'd leave a few things out!> For me J&MC's 1985 Psycho
Candy was a sort of wake-up-bomb!
>
> Bart [buzzz]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:39:20 -0400
From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" <bamboo7431@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Re: there's allways Hope

(catching up with the list and replying to earlier posts - sorry if this 
already has been said)

>Imagine a Venn diagram of pop acts: Wire lie at the intersection
>of a lot of these sets

Venn diagrams have a problem - everything that is "not A and not B" is a 
giant void surrounding the clouds that are A, B, etc.
If Wire is the intersection - who is a giant void? Isn't that Wire too???

Syarzhuk

Be healthy, stay wealthy...

Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:19:03 EDT
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

In a message dated 7/3/02 8:12:09 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes:

>OK< 70s remakes of 30s originals are often better. But I don't really class
>
>those as "modern"! 

i guess mark's referring to the current crop of remakes with teen heartthrob 
casts and cgi effects. a whole lot of crap to feed the kiddies. give me 
vincent price on haunted hill any day!

- -paul c.d.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:33:35 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

> >OK< 70s remakes of 30s originals are often better. But I don't really
class
> >
> >those as "modern"!
>
> i guess mark's referring to the current crop of remakes with teen
heartthrob
> casts and cgi effects. a whole lot of crap to feed the kiddies. give me
> vincent price on haunted hill any day!
>
> -paul c.d.

Yeah, if we think the current 'popular' music situation is crap, the
'movies' are even worse. Unless you live in a major city - and I don't - all
you get within reasonable travelling distance over here are the Hollywood
biggies. I only got to see The Man Who Wasn't There at the cinema last year
because I'd gone away for the weekend, and the Coen Bros are hardly
underground nowadays. Otherwise, it's pretty much just stuff that's great
for the whole family, or Elton John type movies (you know big spectacles,
rather boring).

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:49:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ari Britt <luvjazzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Remake [Remodel]

> Have any of you heard Big Daddy's cover version of
the Beatles Sgt. Pepper album?
It is laid down track-for-track ala late 50's early
60's mode,the last track 'A Day in the Life' is
particularly good,being an exceptional(you'd swear)
rendition by Buddy Holly and the
Crickets.......aaaaaaahhhhhhh,memories of my youth.....Ari

=====
everything in moderation is good for you,including excess.
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:41:10 +0200
From: giluz <giluzzz@fastmail.fm>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

on 03/07/02 22:19, Eardrumbuz@aol.com at Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/3/02 8:12:09 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes:
> 
>> OK< 70s remakes of 30s originals are often better. But I don't really class
>> 
>> those as "modern"!
> 
> i guess mark's referring to the current crop of remakes with teen heartthrob
> casts and cgi effects. a whole lot of crap to feed the kiddies. give me
> vincent price on haunted hill any day!
> 

Especially if it was directed by Roger Corman.

giluz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:02:53 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

> << Ah 1986! When things REALLY started picking up again for me after what
I
>  considered a post-81 lull. Personlly I thought 82-85 were pretty dull
overall


> Fro my money, the post-punk momentum carried right through 1982 and into
83.
> It wasn't till 84 things were starting to go flat.

I know someone who would go as far as 1984 when talking about post-punk
momentum, and though he still likes music he thinks things have never been
the same since. But hey! That's his age talking!

> The NME-sponsored moves into glossy pop meant a lot of previously
innovative
> bands decided to go all out for chart! pop! success!

One of the things I liked about 1982 WAS the glossy pop! Sulk. The Lexicon
of Love. Torch...

I actually thought '84 was a pretty exciting year - The Smiths rising in
front of our eyes (is it a bird, is it a plane, no it's Supermoz!), the
anticipation of their debut album (followed by, well frankly, the
disappointment in the flatness of it), Julian Cope's uncertain debut album
being followed by his magnificent Madcap Laughs-like Fried, The Room,
Chakk's brutal Out of the Flesh, The Blow Monkeys pre-funk debut (a real
under-rated collection of jazzy Bolanic oddities), What Presence? etc, etc.

And then there was, of course, the dominance of FGTH - a band split down the
middle between two overt gay guys and three Liverpool scallies who somehow -
with outside help of course - managed to cobble together several great 45's.
Admittedly all the stupid Frankie Says nonsense got on my tit, but the
hysteria was both interesting and amusing IMO. And lets not forget - Even
Duran Duran released a corker for gods sake. The
re-fle-fle-fle-fle-fle-fle-flex indeed!

Keith

np Desmond Simmons - Alone on Penguin Island

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:18:03 EDT
From: RLynn9@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

In a message dated 7/3/02 6:01:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes:


> Keith
> 
> np Desmond Simmons - Alone on Penguin Island
> 

what? no Kylie? hahahahhahahahha just jokin' keith!
robert

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:28:56 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

>>I know someone who would go as far as 1984 when talking about post-punk
momentum, and though he still likes music he thinks things have never been
the same since. But hey! That's his age talking!<<

Well there's always something interesting happening...but not in such 
unfeasible high-quality amounts as in the post-punk era, sadly. And the 
Rowlandesque margins, though worthwhile, do not provide the same hit...

> >>One of the things I liked about 1982 WAS the glossy pop! Sulk. The Lexicon
> of Love. Torch...<<

So YOU were the satisfied reader! I wouldn't lump Sulk in with the other two 
- - apart from the two singles it's basically a reworked version of the 
Associates' 1980 live set, given a glossy sheen (not dissimilar in concept to 
the mutation of Wire's early 1979 live set into 154, though with a more 
commercial edge.

As for the ABCs of this world, it was well crafted, but I really didn't 
appreciate the headlong right-turn into TOTPland. (Particularly unfulfilling 
in the case of ABC as they never made an album as Vice-Versa)
> 
> >>I actually thought '84 was a pretty exciting year - The Smiths rising in
> front of our eyes (is it a bird, is it a plane, no it's Supermoz!), the> 
> anticipation of their debut album (followed by, well frankly, the
> disappointment in the flatness of it),<<

Oh, the Smiths were sooo 83! You're right about the album though. Took 'em 3 
goes to get it right.

>> Julian Cope's uncertain debut album > being followed by his magnificent 
> Madcap Laughs-like Fried,<<

Again, someone you just wished would get it together at the time...

>> The Room,<<

Hmmm, Ok but hardly earth-shattering...

>>Chakk's brutal Out of the Flesh, <<

Never really got Chakk. Thought they were trying too hard.

>>The Blow Monkeys pre-funk debut (a real > under-rated collection of jazzy 
> Bolanic oddities),<<

Funny you should like that!

>> What Presence? etc, etc.<<

Orange Juice's last stand. Blame Edwyn for shambling indie. Poor sod doesn't 
deserve it, but there you go...

> >>And then there was, of course, the dominance of FGTH - a band split down 
> the
> middle between two overt gay guys and three Liverpool scallies who somehow 
> -
> with outside help of course - managed to cobble together several great 
> 45's.
> Admittedly all the stupid Frankie Says nonsense got on my tit, but the
> hysteria was both interesting and amusing IMO. And lets not forget - Even
> Duran Duran released a corker for gods sake. The
> re-fle-fle-fle-fle-fle-fle-flex indeed!<<

Post-punk puritanism did not allow shiny chart pop into the house. Get the 
Einsturzende Neubauten album, mother, we'll have none of those lame jacketed 
ponces in here ;-)

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:34:48 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

> > np Desmond Simmons - Alone on Penguin Island
> > 
> 
> what? no Kylie? hahahahhahahahha just jokin' keith!
> robert

oh alright. I was lying ; ) 

Can you hear me out there. One more time...

na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na
I just can't get you out of my head....

Keith 

(Generic Kylie Fan)

Lover of fine pop music     X
Dirty old man                    X

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:39:02 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

> Post-punk puritanism did not allow shiny chart pop into the house. Get the
> Einsturzende Neubauten album, mother, we'll have none of those lame
jacketed
> ponces in here ;-)
>
> Mark

Sod the music. I just liked the jackets!

That's the the look, that's the look...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:51:59 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

>>I actually thought '84 was a pretty exciting year - The Smiths rising in
> > front of our eyes (is it a bird, is it a plane, no it's Supermoz!), the>
> > anticipation of their debut album (followed by, well frankly, the
> > disappointment in the flatness of it),<<
>
> Oh, the Smiths were sooo 83!

Yeah. But '84 was definitely their time...the year when they EXPLODED. (No
jokes at the back. I thank you!)

>You're right about the album though. Took 'em 3
> goes to get it right.

I don't think they ever did. Whereas This Charming Man had sounded so ALIVE,
the album - for all it's great material - is SOOOO lacking some vital spark.
Still think it's a pity. Imagine those songs with the Meat Is Murder
clarity. It could have been so wonderful...

> >> Julian Cope's uncertain debut album > being followed by his magnificent
> > Madcap Laughs-like Fried,<<
>
> Again, someone you just wished would get it together at the time...
>
he looked like he was gonna be rock's next casualty at that time, didn't he.
Bill Drummond wished he had been!

> >> The Room,<<
>
> Hmmm, Ok but hardly earth-shattering...

I rate In Evil Hour...

> >>Chakk's brutal Out of the Flesh, <<
>
> Never really got Chakk. Thought they were trying too hard.

They never bettered this. Monstrous slab!

> >>The Blow Monkeys pre-funk debut (a real > under-rated collection of
jazzy
> > Bolanic oddities),<<
>
> Funny you should like that!

That's what I thought!!!

> >> What Presence? etc, etc.<<
>
> Orange Juice's last stand. Blame Edwyn for shambling indie. Poor sod
doesn't
> deserve it, but there you go...

As the cliche goes, it's like blaming Jimi Hendrix for Saxon. Good job he's
dead really. *We'd* have killed him for that ; )

Keith

PS Anyone heard Edwyns new album yet? I loved his last one...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 20:09:30 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

>>Yeah. But '84 was definitely their time...the year when they EXPLODED. (No
jokes at the back. I thank you!)

>You're right about the album though. Took 'em 3
> goes to get it right.

I don't think they ever did. Whereas This Charming Man had sounded so ALIVE,
the album - for all it's great material - is SOOOO lacking some vital spark.
Still think it's a pity. Imagine those songs with the Meat Is Murder
clarity. It could have been so wonderful...<<

What I meant was it wasn't till the 3rd album that they delivered a classic. 
MIM is OK if a bit worthy. It does contain one of the greatest and most 
overlooked Smiths songs, Well I wonder.

> > >> Julian Cope's uncertain debut album > being followed by his magnificent
> > > Madcap Laughs-like Fried,<<
> >
> > Again, someone you just wished would get it together at the time...
> >
> he looked like he was gonna be rock's next casualty at that time, didn't 
> he.
> Bill Drummond wished he had been!<<


Couldn't believe it when he actually DID get it together - I went to the show 
where he "relaunched" himself with the scaffolding mic stand etc (Boston 
Arms, Kentish Town) and he was astonishing - even better than when he was in 
the top 10 with Droppy.

> > >> The Room,<<
> >
> > Hmmm, Ok but hardly earth-shattering...
> 
> I rate In Evil Hour...<<

I've only got a 6-track thing called Clear, which is OK, but a bit generic...


> >>Chakk's brutal Out of the Flesh, <<
> >
> > Never really got Chakk. Thought they were trying too hard.
> 
> They never bettered this. Monstrous slab!<<

One of the Chakk blokes is the 'other one' in Moloko....

> >>The Blow Monkeys pre-funk debut (a real > under-rated collection of
> jazzy
> > > Bolanic oddities),<<
> >
> > Funny you should like that!
> 
> That's what I thought!!!<<

Never dug Dr Bob's scene (ho ho)

> >>As the cliche goes, it's like blaming Jimi Hendrix for Saxon. Good job 
> he's
> dead really. *We'd* have killed him for that ; )<<

Or blaming Wire for Britpop!

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:36:46 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

> What I meant was it wasn't till the 3rd album that they delivered a
classic.
> MIM is OK if a bit worthy. It does contain one of the greatest and most
> overlooked Smiths songs, Well I wonder.

I love MIM, but you're right about Well I Wonder. And it's aged very well...

> > > >> Julian Cope's uncertain debut album > being followed by his
magnificent
> > > > Madcap Laughs-like Fried,<<

> Couldn't believe it when he actually DID get it together - I went to the
show
> where he "relaunched" himself with the scaffolding mic stand etc (Boston
> Arms, Kentish Town) and he was astonishing - even better than when he was
in
> the top 10 with Droppy.

I caught the end of a gig at the Manchester Boardwalk in the summer of '86,
just pre-WSYM. And he was fab then too. Mind you, I saw him at Liverpool in
2000 to a sit-down audience and he was stunning. One of the best (19 or 20)
times I've seen him...

> > >>The Blow Monkeys pre-funk debut (a real > under-rated collection of
> > jazzy
> > > > Bolanic oddities),<<

> Never dug Dr Bob's scene (ho ho)

Admittedly I like the later funky pop struts too, but Limping For A
Generation is nothing like the good Dr ever did again. A big sprawling debut
with *lots* of ambition. Not a Diggin' Your Scene in sight. We were talking
about undiscovered gems a few months back - well this one's mine!

Keith

NP Mogwai - My Father My Son

(i.e. Kylie - I should be so lucky!)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:36:46 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

> What I meant was it wasn't till the 3rd album that they delivered a
classic.
> MIM is OK if a bit worthy. It does contain one of the greatest and most
> overlooked Smiths songs, Well I wonder.

I love MIM, but you're right about Well I Wonder. And it's aged very well...

> > > >> Julian Cope's uncertain debut album > being followed by his
magnificent
> > > > Madcap Laughs-like Fried,<<

> Couldn't believe it when he actually DID get it together - I went to the
show
> where he "relaunched" himself with the scaffolding mic stand etc (Boston
> Arms, Kentish Town) and he was astonishing - even better than when he was
in
> the top 10 with Droppy.

I caught the end of a gig at the Manchester Boardwalk in the summer of '86,
just pre-WSYM. And he was fab then too. Mind you, I saw him at Liverpool in
2000 to a sit-down audience and he was stunning. One of the best (19 or 20)
times I've seen him...

> > >>The Blow Monkeys pre-funk debut (a real > under-rated collection of
> > jazzy
> > > > Bolanic oddities),<<

> Never dug Dr Bob's scene (ho ho)

Admittedly I like the later funky pop struts too, but Limping For A
Generation is nothing like the good Dr ever did again. A big sprawling debut
with *lots* of ambition. Not a Diggin' Your Scene in sight. We were talking
about undiscovered gems a few months back - well this one's mine!

Keith

NP Mogwai - My Father My Son

(i.e. Kylie - I should be so lucky!)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:08:40 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] You're going home in a Crispy Ambulance

Your exceedingly rare chance to see one of the great lost legends of 
avant-pop....

Crispy Ambulance
Saturday, 26th October
Band on the Wall
Manchester

Advance tickets available by credit/debit card from Way Ahead on 0161 237 
5554 (dial +44 161 in place of 0161 from outside the UK) or from Polar Bear 
Records, Deansgate, Manchester and The Burton Arms Hotel, Swan Street (next 
to BOTW), Manchester.  

And they're playing some US dates in early November. No details as yet.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:26:45 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Interactive Fall concert

Very amusing...

http://spuunup.org/dave/CustomGig.htm

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:46:55 EDT
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss!

In a message dated 7/3/02 4:30:30 PM, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes:

>Elton John type movies (you know big spectacles,
>
>rather boring).

elton john's oversized glasses may be silly looking, but i never thought of 
them as boring ;oD

i'd get me hat and coat, but it's so friggin hot here i'm in my underwear.

okay, that was more information than any of you needed. i'll get me beach 
towel

- -paul c.d.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 09:54:10 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways honey dripping beehives

> Well I did say it wasn't my definitive lot! Talking of JAMC, I've been
> playing Stoned & Dethroned a lot the last few days, cos I fancied hearing
> the Radio 2 charms of Sometimes Always again. I know there's general/lazy
> consensus that the JAMC made one great album blah blah blah, but I've never
> found that to be the case. And S&D sounds REALLY good you know...


Blah blah blah indeed! Sure J&MC are more of a one-track-pony band than e.g.
Wire, but what they do they do so well! Hail Hail J&MC!

Bart

------------------------------

End of idealcopy-digest V5 #220
*******************************