From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #218 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, July 2 2002 Volume 05 : Number 218 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Would You? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] John Cage and The Wombles ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] glastonbury [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] the snot behind the arts [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longa... [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! [RLynn9] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! [PaulRa] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! [RLynn9] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! [MarkBu] Re: [idealcopy] OT: SF [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: SF [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! ["Keith] [idealcopy] You didn't give a damn about the exploding man ["Bill Hick" <] Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! [MarkBu] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:36:40 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Would You? > > 3. To Rococo Rot > > German trio create unique rhythmic dimensions beyond space, hypnotised... > > > > > > well i would choose this option....did i guess the right one? > > RL my money's on the lap dancing ; ) time for Bill to, ahem, come clean... keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:46:19 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] John Cage and The Wombles > SILENCE IS NOT GOLDEN! > > Classical chart-toppers THE PLANETS have been accused of ripping off the > avant-garde, experimentalist JOHN CAGE because their new album contains a > silent 60-second track. > Cage, who died in 1992, famously composed the silence piece 4'33'' in his > prime. > Mike Batt, the man behind 'The Wombles' and Vanessa Mae who put the silent > track on The Planets' album, has now received a letter from enraged > representatives of Cage, The Guardian reports. > Batt said: "I've received a letter on behalf of John Cage's music > publishers. I was in hysterics when I read their letter. > "As my mother said when I told her, 'Which part of the silence are they > claiming you nicked?'. They say they are claiming copyright on a piece of > mine called 'One Minute's Silence' on The Planets' album, which I credit > Batt/Cage just for a laugh. But my silence is original silence, not a > quotation from his silence." We live in a mad world... Every day there's something in the newspaper that makes you want to shake your head in despair. If this is true - and not just a desperate publicity stunt from some old has-been (albeit one who wrote Remember You're A Womble), well, it truly is ludicrous! I suggest we write to the publishers, quoting every CD we have with a 'secret track' tagged on at the end, bringing it to their attention that we feel that the interim silence is ripped off Cage. Humourless gitts. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 11:42:42 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longa... >> "Merda d'artista" frederik: > now _that_ is a not so wonderful, wonderful work! > > i believe he has also done a work called "socket of the world" or "plinth of > the world". it is a socket turned upside down, thus having its foundation > solidly planted in air, carrying all the weight of the world... > > *** > to me, these works are as important as the idea of, shall we say, the > automatic writing method of the surrealists... > > "sorry, visitors with can openers are not allowed" Nice one! ;-) > or > "sorry, only head stand guests allowed"? I didn't think much of mr. Manzoni's work either, but as ridiculous as some contemporary art may seem I'm frequently amazed by it's questioning our conformity. I may not like some encounters estheticly, but am frequently amazed by the questions they raise. Apparently Manzoni made a fair living out of his own excrement, selling it - ounce for ounce - at the same price as gold. How did he ever manage to do that were it not for others who'd allowed him to. Makes you question the concept of value of things , doesn't it? Footsi Footsi! I was more amused by MP Teddy Taylor's [truely Pythonesque] reaction to the purchase. I'm sure equivalents in music are easily found. http://www.rjsj.demon.co.uk/pieces/gather.htm This is a pretty good essay on contemporary [conceptual] art by Richard Johnson, published in The Observer in wich he explaines how modern art is losing it's notion of art = eternal. An excerpt: Helen Chadwick, shortlisted for the Turner Prize in 1987, is best known for making art out of the organic. Using everything from cervical smears to entrails, her work deals predominantly with images of the human body. For one installation she loaded an old font in Spitalfields market with pounded strawberries. But her reputation is based on meat. "When I was looking for material to work with, I just got out the Yellow Pages. Sheep intestines were too small - I'd had them out in Greece in Easter Soup - and I couldn't get cow's intestines because of BSE, so I went to an abattoir in Essex to get sow's intestines. I got on the bus in Bethnal Green, and sat next to this guy I know from The Late Show. There was this slight smell coming from my binbag. It was marvellous not to let on, chatting about his latest project, with a mile of intestines between my knees." Doesn't this got Wire-song written all over it? BartMunch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 11:50:54 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] John Cage and The Wombles >> "As my mother said when I told her, 'Which part of the silence are they >> claiming you nicked?'. > We live in a mad world... > Humourless gitts. Great art, claiming silence! Love it! "British Press, Eddie... best in the world!" - yesterday's Bottom Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:52:23 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] john cage & the wombles oh the irony... Mike Batt threatened for silence, most people prayed for him to be silent. A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:08:59 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longa... on 02/07/02 11:42, Bart van Damme at bartvandamme@home.nl wrote: > Apparently Manzoni made a fair living out of his own excrement, selling it - > ounce for ounce - at the same price as gold. How did he ever manage to do > that were it not for others who'd allowed him to. Now, art aesthetics aside, this is absolutely co-ol. Being a sort of chronic allergic person, I always fantasised about making money out of snot and used tissues. Anyone have an idea for some contemporary art? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:12:00 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] John Cage and The Wombles on 02/07/02 03:31, Tim at timrobinson@cwcom.net wrote: > SILENCE IS NOT GOLDEN! > > Classical chart-toppers THE PLANETS have been accused of ripping off the > avant-garde, experimentalist JOHN CAGE because their new album contains a > silent 60-second track. If I remember correctly, cage's Silence was not really silent, and also involved the performer making certain activities around the piano, all written in advance, of course. I would love to have access to the court hearings on this - can this trial be the one that would make the law against plagiarism obsolete? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 06:24:41 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] glastonbury so what did we all think of the BBC coverage then? bits were good but the quality of acts was not exactly earth shattering now was it? my poor brother is currently in hospital after a bodged vasectomy (don't ask , believe me you don't want to know.....) so he watched it all , he described rod stewarts performance (particularly "sailing") as massively more painful than his swollen gonads which i guess is maybe fair comment. wasn't much particularly new on show , though i quite enjoyed BRMC and the Vines. missed the white stripes who i hear were good. but they need to get the booking policy sorted , i can't imagine many of that crowd really wanted to see roger waters or rod. maybe they're michael eavis' favourites? somebody should've sent him a copy of R&B...... p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 12:38:39 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the snot behind the arts >> Apparently Manzoni made a fair living out of his own excrement, selling it - >> ounce for ounce - at the same price as gold. How did he ever manage to do >> that were it not for others who'd allowed him to. > > Now, art aesthetics aside, this is absolutely co-ol. Being a sort of chronic > allergic person, I always fantasised about making money out of snot and used > tissues. Anyone have an idea for some contemporary art? > > giluz Sorry Giluz, popartist Billy Apple [New Zealand - orinal name Barrie Bates] beat you to it. Apparently he made whole installations from his nose wipes [can't imagine what HIS allergy was!] so be aware of B. Apple claiming copyrights on snot here! fellow chronic allergic [but who isn't nowadays?] Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 13:01:48 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longa... > > Apparently Manzoni made a fair living out of his own excrement, selling it - > > ounce for ounce - at the same price as gold. How did he ever manage to do > > that were it not for others who'd allowed him to. > > Now, art aesthetics aside, this is absolutely co-ol. Being a sort of chronic > allergic person, I always fantasised about making money out of snot and used > tissues. Anyone have an idea for some contemporary art? > > giluz Selling excrement. Snot and used tissues. A bag of sow's intestines between her knees. Swollen gonads. Mike Batt. I feel queasy... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:28:17 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longa... << > Apparently Manzoni made a fair living out of his own excrement, selling it - > ounce for ounce - at the same price as gold. How did he ever manage to do > that were it not for others who'd allowed him to. Now, art aesthetics aside, this is absolutely co-ol. Being a sort of chronic allergic person, I always fantasised about making money out of snot and used tissues. Anyone have an idea for some contemporary art? >> As with most modern art, the press tries to poke fun at the concept, rather than seeing it as an ironic one-line joke. I've actually seen some of Manzoni's shit cans. They're rather good, sealed in a proper can (Not sure but I think he had them made at a cannery) with a nice label on decribing the contents "Merde d'Artiste" etc. Of course part of the joke is that you're not actually sure if the can does contain shit - the only way to find out would be to open the can - which of course would deface the work and destroy its value.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:34:20 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] John Cage and The Wombles << If I remember correctly, cage's Silence was not really silent, and also involved the performer making certain activities around the piano, all written in advance, of course. >> Correct. 4'33" isn't silence at all. It's a concert performance (scored for piano) in which the performer doesn't play any notes. It has three movements, and at a precise point during the third movement the performer closes the piano lid. Part of the concept/joke is for the piece to be staged in a concert hall, with a fully trained classical pianist dressed in black tie, with sheet music etc. Of course you get all measure of ambient sounds - papers rustling, people coughing etc. I've actually got it on CD, which delightfully has the track breaks put in the right points. And if you crank up the volume you can hear the lid being closed... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:41:58 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the snot behind the arts << > Now, art aesthetics aside, this is absolutely co-ol. Being a sort of chronic > allergic person, I always fantasised about making money out of snot and used > tissues. Anyone have an idea for some contemporary art? >> Don't forget the Coum Transmissions (pre-TG Genesis P Orridge & gang) Tampon exhibition at the ICA, which caused much outrage in 1976. Remember the press coverage,m with various members of the Bromley Contingent (Siouxsie etc) queuing to get in... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:56:26 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longa... > Of course part of the joke is that you're not > actually sure if the can does contain shit - the only way to find out would > be to open the can - which of course would deface the work and destroy its > value.... > > Mark ...and, of course, potentially leave a rather nasty smell in the living room. No thanks! I'll stick with my Hay Wain and the Athena tennis girl scratching her arse if you don't mind... that's proper bloody art that is ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:00:27 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Monty Python Art Gallery Strike With all these mentions of art, I couldn't resist sending this. Full = scene on the link below.... Radio: Here is the News... (the man pauses for a moment and looks at = radio, then resumes sawing; we zoom in to close up on the radio. There = is a window behind it; as the radio talks, a group of paintings with = picket signs pass by) by an almost unanimous vote, paintings in the = National Gallery voted to continue the strike that has emptied frames = for the last week. The man from Constable's 'Hay Wain' said last night = that there was no chance of a return to the pictures before the weekend. = Sir Kenneth Clarke has said he will talk to any painting if it can help = bring a speedy end to the strike (a ghastly scream out of vision; the = sawing stops abruptly) At Sotheby's, prices dropped dramatically as = leading figures left their paintings. (Cut to Sotheby's)=20 Auctioneer: What am I bid for Vermeer's 'Lady Who Used to be at a = Window'? Do I hear two bob?=20 Voice: Two bob!=20 Auctioneer: Gone. Now what am I bid for another great bargain? Edward = Landseer's 'Nothing at Bay'.=20 http://www.montypython.net/scripts/artstrike.php [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Monty Python Art Gallery Strike.url] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 10:12:53 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Monty Python Art Gallery Strike talking of art strikes , isn't it a great pity that this idea only appeals to those we might like to have heard something by (stewart home , KLF , luke haines etc). whereas i suspect the stereophonics and their ilk will not leave the premises until their metaphorical fingers are hammered off the metaphorical doorstep. p (currently in the middle of a lengthy work to rule) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:31:29 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longah... > ...and, of course, potentially leave a rather nasty smell in the living > room. No thanks! I'll stick with my Hay Wain and the Athena tennis girl > scratching her arse if you don't mind... And whadda ya think scratching THAT smells like then, eh? Sounds Brrt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:16:26 -0400 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] there's allways Hope The Henry Cow and Slapp Happy stuff is out on CD, nicely remastered. Check the Cuneiform or Chris Cutler's site. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Knight" To: "Andrew Walkingshaw" ; Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] there's allways Hope > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrew Walkingshaw > > > > There are so many well kept secrets around, some more well kept and some > > > less - I think Wire's one of the less well kept (relatively). Faust and > > > Henry Cow come to mind when you try to think of something as innovative > and > > > influential as Wire, > > > Henry Cow I'm not aware of, but I had a physics teacher at school who was > > *very* into Krautrock - and this was about the time Faust toured Scotland. > ----------------- > > I was very into Henry Cow in the early 70s along with many of the other > early Virgin label bands (galling to think I may have helped Branson's rise > to power but he was a force for good back then). Henry Cow came out of a > left-field, experimental jazz/rock environment and included a number of > players who are still out there - Fred Frith on guitar, Chris Cutler on > drums, John Greaves on bass among others. They played improvised, often > chaotic music which was challenging (at least as a non-jazz fan) but often > beautiful to listen to. I saw them play the Bath Alternative festival in > 71ish to an audience of about 30 and I fell in love with them, especially > Frith's way with a guitar and Cutler's cymbal-heavy drum style. They > supported Faust on the legendary tour a year or so later when Faust - to my > recollection - played pretty much the same piece half a dozen times while > watching TV and playing pinball in between tunes. > > If you want to explore Henry Cow I'd recommend their second album 'Unrest' > which captures the jazz/rock era well ( a favourite of author Jonathan Coe > incidentally) and has a tune with the great title 'Bittern Storm over Ulm' > and the third album 'In Praise of Learning' which was quite a departure. By > now they'd teamed up with Slapp Happy (another Virgin band comprising Peter > Blegvad, Anthony Moore and Dagmar Krause) and went down a song-writing > route, albeit not one likely to appeal to large numbers of the paying > public. Much of the album was a Marxist call to arms ("Arise workmen and > seize the future") sung superbly by Krause. The album opens with 'War', > which only Mark E Smith would ever have considered covering - can't remember > which album off hand but it was about six or seven years ago: "Tell of the > birth, tell how war appeared on Earth". Slapp Happy also did a great album > around this time - 'Desperate Straights'. God knows if any of these are on > CD, as I've never been one to repurchase vinyl holdings. > > After this they released a couple more disappointing albums and then split > to do solo stuff. But they were the business for a while, at least in my > house. > > another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:28:56 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longah... > > ...and, of course, potentially leave a rather nasty smell in the living > > room. No thanks! I'll stick with my Hay Wain and the Athena tennis girl > > scratching her arse if you don't mind... > > And whadda ya think scratching THAT smells like then, eh? what? you've got the scratch'n'sniff version??? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:36:37 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Flaming Lips Zaireeka > > P.S. Have I told you about Sammy Jenkins? > > "Jankis," wasn't it? I'm not sure, though... My short-term > memory isn't what it used to be! > I went back and checked the disc. You're right, of course, it's Sammy Jankis. See - I have this problem with my short term memory. It's not amnesia - I just can't form new memories. It's like Sammy Jankis. Have I told you about Sammy? I'm not like him - I can manage with repetition and conditioning. Repetition - just like that "dugga" band Wire. Wire - the official band of Memento. Cheers, Sammy....er...Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:59:28 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] Information about Seattle Wire show The tickets will be pre-sold thru Fastixx (http://www.fastixx.com). According to their site: WIRE-SHOWBOX-21 & OVER at the Showbox Tickets go on sale Saturday August 3, 2002 at 10:00AM! (Pacific Time Zone) Cheers, Paul *********************************************************** Brain: "That's brilliant Pinky!!...and Larry... ...Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" Pinky: "I think so Larry...and Brain...but how can we get 7 dwarfs to shave their legs?" Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:39:41 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Would You? Me and David Byrne stayed in and bitched about the internet. I reckon you and Captain Sensible went to the lap dancing club, and persuaded the pole-dancers to dance to 'The First Letter'. At 04:30 02/07/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 01:47:19 +0100 >From: "Bill Hick" >Subject: [idealcopy] Would You? > >Faced with a choice of nights out in 'moribund Manc magog scene' > >would you > >choose... > >1. The Damned >Ol' Gothpunk p-stoo-rockists ham it up impersonating vampires in berets etc. > >2. David Byrne >Ol' ethno punko header gabbler hams it up for about twice the price of ol' >Goths, proving it's not just once in a life time. > >3. To Rococo Rot >German trio create unique rhythmic dimensions beyond space, hypnotised... > > 4. High Society 106 >See more of Lap and Pole Dancing Girls at >www.highsociety106.com >Maybe a different kind of Pole Dancing to Stefan Betke, but who knows? > >5. Stay in & bitch on internet >about something or other > >6. etc. etc. > >Cracked Machine >Highly Irregular Cyberzine >http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/zero21.htm > >No prizes to guess which one I chose. ________________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 22:23:43 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the shit behind the ars longa... on 02/07/02 15:28, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > As with most modern art, the press tries to poke fun at the concept, rather > than seeing it as an ironic one-line joke. I've actually seen some of > Manzoni's shit cans. They're rather good, sealed in a proper can (Not sure > but I think he had them made at a cannery) with a nice label on decribing the > contents "Merde d'Artiste" etc. Of course part of the joke is that you're not > actually sure if the can does contain shit - the only way to find out would > be to open the can - which of course would deface the work and destroy its > value.... A quantum shit? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:09:12 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! Giluz lamented.. > I was born at the wrong time at the wrong place! - -------- I 've often thought that I've been particularly blessed in being born in 1956. Not too young to have missed the 60s and coming of age in the early 70s - musically a fascinating time both in terms of chart action and less-popular stuff but also a great period for films especially in the USA, as well as my other great passion, science fiction. Then punk when I was 20 and still able to be influenced, after which all music culture naturally flows. Of course I had to suffer Thatcher at a really bad time of my development (although anyone growing up in Britain thereafter has suffered that unless they're rich) and I'll be lucky to live another 30 years but it could have been a lot worse. Although I suppose there's always stuff to seek out if you've got the mindset, even if the mainstream is crap. another the Keith (getting sentimentally old before it's really necessary) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:30:20 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! In a message dated 7/2/02 4:09:44 PM Central Daylight Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: << I 've often thought that I've been particularly blessed in being born in 1956. Not too young to have missed the 60s and coming of age in the early 70s - musically a fascinating time both in terms of chart action and less-popular stuff but also a great period for films especially in the USA, as well as my other great passion, science fiction. >> ahh yes! 2001 A Space Odyssey.(this was 1969 maybe..but who cares.. i think of it as a 70's film)..THX-1138...A Clockwork Orange.....Westworld...Rollerball (which is a great film..i don't care what anyone says)....Alien...the Omega Man....Silent Running...The Man Who Fell to Earth.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:51:53 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Speaking of Sci-fi / Futuristic films.... Have any of you ever seen the film: "Escape From New York" (1981) ?? It was filmed here in my hometown of St. Louis...i remember being around 11 or 12 at the time and i thought it was great because i lived fairly close to where most of the shooting was done.....There is a bridge here that has been closed down since i was little.. it connects the states of Missouri and Illinois..a very surreal place because of the overgrowth of vines covering both entrances and the strange silence while on the bridge..the only sound you can hear it the wind...it's a lovely old thing but became obsolete after newer bridges and highways were built..i was always fascinated that they never destroyed it...anyway, as you can guess it became a haven for teenagers (i.e. boozers and pot-heads) and the homeless..especially since it had these manholes opened to reveal compartments that could fit two people comfortably...they used these manholes in the best sequences in the film.....tragically, a few years back two sisters and their cousin were assaulted while walking on the bridge (looking at all the grafitti/poetry) and thrown off the bridge after a struggle....the cousin survived (the sisters were found many days later far downstream...the Mississipi River is a monster as far as undertow and currents) and he was blamed for their deaths.. the police thought his story was unbelieveable since it's unlikely that anyone could survive such a fall from that height, and if they did..not many would survive the Mississippi....but he was telling the truth...they caught the 3 (or 4?) youths responsible...one of them was sentenced to death...by coincidence i was watching a program about the death penalty the other night and they featured his story....His lawyers had several appeals denied and literally minutes before he was supposed to die by lethal injection he was spared by the supreme court...something to do with being mildly retarded....now, that IS science-fiction....they have turned the bridge into part of a bike trail in honor of the sisters.....no matter how they cleaned it up the Chain of Rocks Bridge is still a surreal place...i've recently completed a piece of music dedicated to the rickety old structure... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 18:00:35 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! In a message dated 02/07/02 22:30:53 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > Rollerball (which is a great film..i don't care what > anyone says).... /////this remake don't look too clever though :-( p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 01:38:23 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: SF on 02/07/02 23:09, Keith Knight at steeleknight@lineone.net wrote: > > Giluz lamented.. > >> I was born at the wrong time at the wrong place! > > -------- > > I 've often thought that I've been particularly blessed in being born in > 1956. Not too young to have missed the 60s and coming of age in the early > 70s - musically a fascinating time both in terms of chart action and > less-popular stuff but also a great period for films especially in the USA, > as well as my other great passion, science fiction. I actually prefer the last two decades in SF. Though 70's SF gave us some of the best works of authors like Niven, LeGuin, Varley, Stableford, Dick, Ballard, etc., there was something about cyberpunkers and their followers which really does it for me. Maybe it's because, like you, I'm a child of my times and these works are contemporary pieces that shaped the way I'm looking at the world, but I wasn't less passionate towards music and I don't hold the 80's as a great musical decade. Anyone interested in more contemporary SF: John Clute's Appleseed is one of the greatest manipulation of the English language ever created in SF. A space opera written so intelligently and takes the interactivity with the reader, which is one of the best things about SF, to new heights. Jeff Noon's Vurt trilogy (vurt, pollen, nymphomation) - Alice in Philip-K-Dick-William-Gibson-land (located somewhere around Manchester). Neal Stephenson - though he does suffer from the Gibson syndrome (anything you write is not as good as your 1st novel - Stepghenson's Snow Crash, Gibson's Neuromancer), a Stephenson's novel is always worth it, if only for the vast amounts of scientific data. Unlike Gibson, Stephenson is a computer literate, and more importantly, he knows a lot about computer culture. A book like Cryptonomicon, though it kinda stumbles towards a predictable awkward ending, succeeds in telling the story of the history of crypto and to make it interesting and even exciting, without bothering the reader with too much maths and scientific stuff. Snow Crash was quite perfect though. Michel Faber - Under the Skin: Ex-idealcopyist's debut novel is one of those rare books that escape any kind of classification (he is a wire fan, after all), but does have SF at its core. And some older ones, whose work is still brilliant: Bruce Sterling - one of the first cyberpunks (even before Gibson) still can't get it wrong. Politics, art, society and culture with a thick layer of irony. His 3 recent books: Holy Fire - can an old woman rejuvenated still maintain the holy fire of youth to make great art? ; Distraction is about political genetic games in the near future US ; Zeitgeist is about the paradigm shift in Y2K and about surveillance (aka electronic paranoia). Most of Sterling's basic ideas can be found in an unbelievably compressed form, in his first great masterpiece, Schismatrix (1985). Kim Stanley Robinson - though his last few books weren't as good as his first few and tend to be too long and epic, Robinson's post-modern way of constructing his worlds from countless viewpoints is almost always intriguing - even his science is not linear and is presented in the same way. This is an author whose thorough research led him to Antarctica and to the peak of the Everest. Rudy Rucker - another cyberpunk pioneer - hillarious quirky maths - from Georg Cantor's infinity theories to obscure mathematical mind games with names like Perplexing Poultry (it's not his invention and absolutely real), Rucker's worlds and characters really behave like confused numbers conforming to the most extreme mathematical rules, combined with great amounts of humour and drugs. Nicola Griffith's first two novels, Ammonite & Slow River are an interesting mixture of Gay lit and a genetically altered le-Guin. Didn't read her last one yet, though. Brian Stableford's - one of the genre's genetic engineering pioneers continues to write great books. Could be seen as Cyberpunk, but I think he didn't change much over the years and doesn't need to. Inherit the Earth and Architects of Emortality are recommended. Warren Ellis' Transmetropolitan comic, nowadays coming to its monthly conclusion at DC Vertigo Comics. A bit didactic at times, but maintains a high dosage of black humour, and the drawings (Darrick Robertson) are some of the best ever seen in the genre. That's it for now. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 18:57:57 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! In a message dated 7/2/02 5:00:35 PM Central Daylight Time, PaulRabjohn writes: > > >> Rollerball (which is a great film..i don't care what >> anyone says).... > > /////this remake don't look too clever though :-( p>>>>> > > i squealed in anger (and hatred) when i found out about that cunt filled > remake of Rollerball...i'd like to personally kick the guy who decided to > do this square in the nuts.....any film with no-talent slobs like Rebecca > Romijn-Stamos and LL Cool J has got to suck... > > RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:00:07 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! In a message dated 02/07/02 23:57:57 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn 9 writes: > i squealed in anger (and hatred) when i found out about that cunt filled > remake of Rollerball...i'd like to personally kick the guy who decided to > do this square in the nuts.....any film with no-talent slobs like Rebecca > Romijn-Stamos and LL Cool J has got to suck... ////i've only seen a trailer. looks poor. i did not realise that the great LLCJ was involved , he is such a hero of mine. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:06:52 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! In a message dated 7/2/02 6:00:07 PM Central Daylight Time, PaulRabjohn writes: > > >> i squealed in anger (and hatred) when i found out about that cunt filled >> remake of Rollerball...i'd like to personally kick the guy who decided to >> do this square in the nuts.....any film with no-talent slobs like Rebecca >> Romijn-Stamos and LL Cool J has got to suck... > > ////i've only seen a trailer. looks poor. i did not realise that the great > LLCJ was involved , he is such a hero of mine. p Damn i hate Hollywood....bunch of pricks.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:21:34 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! > >> i squealed in anger (and hatred) when i found out about that cunt filled >> remake of Rollerball... Name a modern remake that improves the original.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 00:25:59 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: SF On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 01:38:23AM +0200, giluz wrote: > on 02/07/02 23:09, Keith Knight at steeleknight@lineone.net wrote: < > Neal Stephenson - though he does suffer from the Gibson syndrome (anything > you write is not as good as your 1st novel - Stepghenson's Snow Crash, > Gibson's Neuromancer), Superb author - and just to be awkward, I prefer The Diamond Age *and* Cryptonomicon to Snow Crash. The guy has no idea how to end a novel, though. :) In the modern authors, I'd like to add Ken MacLeod, whose Black Plan set of novels (The Star Fraction in particular, but also The Stone Canal, The Cassini Division and the Sky Road) are *very* much worth your time; and though most of you will have heard of him, Iain M. Banks' "Use of Weapons" and "The Player of Games" - though I prefer his writing of non-SF as Iain Banks, particularly "The Crow Road". Listees might well enjoy "Espedair Street", his mock-rock-autobiography, too... Andrew - -- "Gertrude Stein says that's enough; But I know that that's not enough now." - - Idlewild, "Roseability" ('100 Broken Windows') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 02:31:13 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: SF on 03/07/02 01:25, Andrew Walkingshaw at andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk wrote: > In the modern authors, I'd like to add Ken MacLeod, whose Black Plan > set of novels (The Star Fraction in particular, but also The Stone Canal, > The Cassini Division and the Sky Road) are *very* much worth your time; I just finished his Cosmonaut Keep, which was a good read, but I still haven't read anything else. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 01:14:30 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! > >> remake of Rollerball... > > Name a modern remake that improves the original.... > > Mark The general feeling was that Oceans Eleven was better than the original, though I haven't seen it myself. The re-make was pretty enjoyable though, if hardly essential. I suppose the one great remake - though it's not excatly modern - is The Imvasion of the Bodysnatchers. Unusual in that the original AND re-make are really good... As for the original Rollerball...well I saw it when I was 14-15, and though I liked the action bits, I couldn't understand what the hell James Caan was mumbling on about. I needed subtitles... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 01:06:18 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] You didn't give a damn about the exploding man Another the Bastard >>>(Don't think he mentioned The Bastards though. Monticello - Now there's an album!) You didn't give a damn about the exploding man because you killed him - (an there's a mini-album!) Janitor Joe - Big Metal Birds (there's another album now) Janitor Joe - Lucky (now another album there) Did anyone ever hear Gnomes of Zurich though? If you like Bastards or Janitor Joe you may also find this Leeds band entertaining www.thejrband.com They're more like rocket science than they are like any of the other bands from Leeds, except maybe the highly Shellac / Rapeman influenced Kill Yourself who are kind of like umberzoology and bowed metapsychics in cross section. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Asa-Chang & Junray - Jun Ray Song Chang www.posteverything.com/leaf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 20:16:33 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There's allways intellectual and emotional bliss! > >>The general feeling was that Oceans Eleven was better than the original, > though I haven't seen it myself. The re-make was pretty enjoyable though, > if > hardly essential. I suppose the one great remake - though it's not excatly > modern - is The Imvasion of the Bodysnatchers. Unusual in that the original > AND re-make are really good...<< Not seen either of the Oceans Elevens.... I'll give you the other one... > >>As for the original Rollerball...well I saw it when I was 14-15, and > though > I liked the action bits, I couldn't understand what the hell James Caan was > mumbling on about. I needed subtitles...<< Saw it fairly recently and it had aged well... Trivial fact - the big office block with the Rollerball rink is actually the headquarters of BMW in Munich. Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #218 *******************************