From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #190 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, June 10 2002 Volume 05 : Number 190 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Blow-out/up [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Eno/Wire [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Monkey caught stealing... ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] it ain't over till Brando sings [giluz ] AW: [idealcopy] searching a song [Woerner Frank ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Wagnerian Brandoburger Concerti ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Morgan Fisher's Miniatures [Bart van Damme ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: Eno-Wire Connections ["Michael Flaherty" ] [idealcopy] Refugees Intertwined Alone ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Vien ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Simple Phrases Repeated with Minor Variations ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Sonic Memories ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Bizarre Noise Obscures Jazz ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Couple of items... [Andrew Westmeyer ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:01:15 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Blow-out/up >> But the Conversation was indeed so much >> better - the sound version to Antonioni's Blow-Up. >> giluz > > that's interesting. never thought of it like that before, but you're right. > keith DePalma's Blowout [with John Travolta and John Lithgow] also is a direct link to Blow-up though his directing style [as allways] reminds more of Hichcock. Both seem to have been made under the influence of the Watergate scandal... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:18:54 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Eno/Wire << There must be a closer match between Eno and Wire. Anyone? >> Eno plays keyboards on I fall into your arms on He Said Hail. That's the most obvious one and I think the only actual appearance of Eno on a Wire member's record.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:16:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Monkey caught stealing... > Police hunt chimp over mobile theft > The long, hairy arm Mustapha Riat saw disappearing with his mobile phone > belonged to a chimpanzee. > "I saw this hairy black chimpanzee coming through the window," he said. "I > couldn't believe it. > "I was frightened of being bitten. It must have been trained to go for it." > Police are taking the burglary seriously and are linking it with the second > crime 20 doors away in which a DVD player was moved. that's funny. i watched 'babe: pig in the city' last night, where what can only be this perpretator's little brother nicked the poor pigs mum's suitcase. real life imitating 'art'??? keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:31:22 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] The Conversation > >> But the Conversation was indeed so much > >> better - the sound version to Antonioni's Blow-Up. > >> giluz > >=20 > > that's interesting. never thought of it like that before, but you're = right. > > keith =20 bart said > DePalma's Blowout [with John Travolta and John Lithgow] also is a = direct > link to Blow-up though his directing style [as allways] reminds more = of > Hichcock.=20 yeah. what was that one called - 'the bedroom window' i think. = definitely hugely influenced by the colossal 'the rear window' - but = with a quite a nice alternative take on the subject (i.e. he only = pretended to see it, it was his girlfriend who actually did) > Both seem to have been made under the influence of the Watergate = scandal... http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/01/13/conversation.html for 'notes' re. the conversation. keith [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Notes on The Conversation.url] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:29:23 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Blow-out/up > DePalma's Blowout [with John Travolta and John Lithgow] also is a direct > link to Blow-up though his directing style [as allways] reminds more of > Hichcock. > Both seem to have been made under the influence of the Watergate scandal... > > Bart > then there's brian de palma's more literal translation of blow-up's theme > from photo to sound in blow-out > -paul (that's a good scream) c.d. Hmmm... seems that Paul beat me to it! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:11:36 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] it ain't over till Brando sings on 10/06/02 01:02, Keith Astbury at keith.astbury10@virgin.net wrote: > god. what a dull read that was. imagine 'acopalypse now' without the > helicopters set to music? yep. *that* bad ; ) One of the best books I've read - never a dull moment, and quite revolutionary to its times. I actually find Apocalypse to be a quite faithful adaptation of the book. Vietnam, helicopters, napalm and all are just the background to the film's post-colonial approach. I never considered Apocalypse as a Vietnam movie. The film's surrealism diminishes the historical connections and concentrates on the philosophical ones. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:20:49 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wagnerian Brandoburger Concerti >>But taking Joseph Conrad's rather onedimensional >> novel > > god. what a dull read that was. imagine 'acopalypse now' without the > helicopters set to music? yep. *that* bad ; ) > > keith AN=shite? ;-) About time we would start talking Wagner here - perhaps the greatest artist of all times imo. Last month dutch tv broadcasted the whole of Wagner's Ring des Nibelungen - each sunday afternoon [when else?] a chapter. Can I say I watched a good half of some 20 hours of gripping genius [crips & lager at hand]. The Apocalypse Now bit is of course an excerpt of die Walkure, wich has been used for just about every cartoonlike heroic piece of cinema. Of course Copolla also used it in a very ironic/sarcastic manner. With even more irony Fellini used the same bit in his "Otto e Mezzo" illustrating something completely different in that famous health spa scene. If the missing link between Wagner and Webern [and Berg] is Arnold Schonberg Than the missing link between Wagner and Schonberg must be his Die Gurrelieder in wich you can hear the first hints of his later atonal adventures. In the same city and at the same time the equivalent in painting is taking place where you can replace Wagner with Gustav Klimt and Schonberg with Egon Schiele and Oskar Kokoschka. For next lesson bring me at least an apple [mac] ;-) Bart Jan & Ralph... Tonight on dutch tv: an hour long special about the Breeders. The rest... tough luck! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:27:03 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Eno/Wire on 10/06/02 12:18, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > << There must be a closer match between Eno and Wire. Anyone? >> > > Eno plays keyboards on I fall into your arms on He Said Hail. > > That's the most obvious one and I think the only actual appearance of Eno on > a Wire member's record.... > > Mark Colin is being credited in the Thanks list on Eno's last album, but I don't know what he actually did there. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:26:39 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: PaulRabjohn@aol.com [mailto:PaulRabjohn@aol.com] > Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Juni 2002 17:16 > An: Woerner Frank; idealcopy@smoe.org > Betreff: Re: [idealcopy] searching a song > > > In a message dated Fri, 7 Jun 2002 6:44:56 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, Frank.Woerner@erl.sbs.de writes: > > > Its an 80ies pop song starting with: > > > > "you've been reading my diary, now you know me inside out > > ..." > > ////dunnno the title but its by fiat lux (bill nelsons > brother IIRC , what a claim to fame , eh). pretty drippy new > romantic ballad? p Thanks for all the answers I got. I was heavy into audiogalaxy recently and got some very sought after songs from the seventies and eighties. I even got "nerve pylon" from the lines. I had about 30 seconds of that song record from a John Peel broadcast in the eigties when my cassette ended. It was impossible to buy here in Germany. And ... please don't flame me ... some Gilbert O'Sullivan songs. regards FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:36:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song << I even got "nerve pylon" from the lines. I had about 30 seconds of that song record from a John Peel broadcast in the eigties when my cassette ended. It was impossible to buy here in Germany. >> An excellent single. A Wire-related record too.... Special Golden Anorak award for the first person to spot the link ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:11:11 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wagnerian Brandoburger Concerti > About time we would start talking Wagner here - perhaps the greatest artist > of all times imo. Last month dutch tv broadcasted the whole of Wagner's Ring oh dear. not sure i'd want to see *that*. seems like those dutch cliches are true. they really do show that type of thing their tv. > Jan & Ralph... Tonight on dutch tv: an hour long special about the Breeders. see. there they go again ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:05:45 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dutch Film BLURred > bart said >> DePalma's Blowout [with John Travolta and John Lithgow] also is a = >> direct link to Blow-up though his directing style [as allways] reminds more = >> of Hichcock.=20 Keith: > yeah. what was that one called - 'the bedroom window' i think. = > definitely hugely influenced by the colossal 'the rear window' - but = > with a quite a nice alternative take on the subject (i.e. he only = > pretended to see it, it was his girlfriend who actually did) "The bedroom window had a nicer view..." DePalma allways has been a wannabe Hitchcock. Interesting comparing it to the Britpop chat. Is it possible to follow in your master's [39]steps without being branded as retro or such. Though I'm not a hugh fan I think DePalma did a pretty nice job. AS DID BLUR I might add. BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR BLUR... >> Both seem to have been made under the influence of the Watergate = >> scandal... > http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/01/13/conversation.html Interesting link Keith, Scetches a good 70's frame of mind. First movie I remember in that bleak and paranoid sorta style was Alan J. Pakula's Klute. Makes me think of how in the dutch media the recent murder of dutch politician Pim Fortuyn is linked to the Kennedy's/King assasinations. Funny thing is dutch cinematographer, journalist, tv-presentator and enfant terrible Theo van Gogh [family of THE van Gogh yes] is planning to make a movie about this. Van Gogh being [a borderline necrophilic] has his original views [famous is his: " I wish it would be a war!"] but in no way capable of handling a subject like this and turn it into great cinema. This surely is a time when I wish we would have a better cinematographic tradition here. All Holland has given the world is bloody Paul Verhoeven. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:17:31 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song > << I even got "nerve pylon" from the lines. I had about 30 seconds > of that song record from a John Peel broadcast in the eigties > when my cassette ended. It was impossible to buy here in Germany. >> > > An excellent single. A Wire-related record too.... Special Golden Anorak > award for the first person to spot the link ;-) > > Mark Don't know the answer, but is that the same Lines who released 'White Night' in 1978? Can't recall ever hearing anything apart from that single - which I absolutely LOVED! (and still do) Did they ever release an album then? Keith PS That new Sonic Youth track 'The Empty Page' is a bit of a grower. Didn't really grab me first time either, but after a few plays... n.p. the Definitive Delfonics Collection ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:14:50 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wagnerian Brandoburger Concerti >> About time we would start talking Wagner here - perhaps the greatest >> artist of all times imo. Last month dutch tv broadcasted the whole of >> Wagner's Ring > > oh dear. not sure i'd want to see *that*. seems like those dutch cliches are > true. they really do show that type of thing their tv. "from the people that brought you BIG Brother" >> Jan & Ralph... Tonight on dutch tv: an hour long special about the > Breeders. > see. there they go again ; ) > > Keith HERECY on all counts!!! I8-[ Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:08:49 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song << Don't know the answer, but is that the same Lines who released 'White Night' in 1978? Can't recall ever hearing anything apart from that single - which I absolutely LOVED! (and still do) Did they ever release an album then? >> Yes, it's the same band. And they did release at least one album, plus a few more singles. If you've got one of the singles you should be able to work out the link...... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:34:26 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Patterns in a Chromatic Field for the Sundays > Glad to see you mentioned listening to contemporary (& older) classical. I > was beginning to think I was the only one on the list (though that's > unlikely I suspect). Nothing quite like that timeless form. Part's one of my > favourites. Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms is stunning. Have you heard that > one? Actually one of my Strawinski faves... [still like his Sacre too though - Punk Classical] > You should check out Anton Webern (Austria), Toru Takemitsu (Japan), and > Morton Feldman (US). Webern's stuff dates from the first half of the 20th > century (he died in 1945 - caught by a sniper's bullet), and is the most > beautifully understated yet rich music. Some of the pieces are only a few > minutes long. Enormously influential for subsequent generations of > composers. > Takemitsu (d.1996) did a lot of music for film. His work is more > lyrical and romantic, along the lines of Debussy, but with a different > sensibilty. Last year I got a wonderfull compilation of Webern [Das Augenlicht, 5 Satze fur streichquartett and an orchestration of Bach's Musikalisches Opfer] Messiaen [Quator pour la Fin du Temps -something for Bill? - and 20 regards sur l'enfant Jesus] and some early piano works by Federico Mompou [bit Satie-like] > Feldman (d.1987) was part of a artistic firmament of composers, > coreographers, painters and writers in the 50s and 60s that included John > Cage, Merce Cunningham, Mark Rothko, Philip Guston et al. His stuff is > remarkable in it's simpicity (always seeking to remove rather than include). > The later work is really pared back, and very quiet - simple phrases > repeated over with minor variations. Some of the pieces are quite long (up > to 4 hours). On paper this probably sounds incredibly boring, but it's not. > He was fascinated by Persian rugs - the patterning, with various slight > imperfections, which is pretty much how his music operates. Works along the > principles of Eno's ambient music (years before the fact of course). > Incredible attention to sounds, and the spaces between them. I only have some of Feldman work on tape: Patterns in a Chromatic Field There is also a work I know of he tributed to Philip Guston [one of the main influences of the late 70's / early 80's new wave in painting] Someone like Eno must be forever in dept to John Cage and [t]his generation. > If you like organ music, you should check out French composer Olivier > Messiaen (d.1992). Don't quite know how I'd describe his stuff... it varies > a lot, but, I guess it's like a painter whose work you like, it's got a > certain touch or gesture. His equivalent in painting for me would be Mark Rothko. Same religiously based elusiveness [though I heard Rothko himself was more into jazz]. I'm not so much into organ though... > Have you seen the Wim Wenders film "Wings Of Desire" (1987)? Some beautiful > music for strings by Jurgen Knieper. You don't have a copy of that > soundtrack on CD by any chance? Nope, only on tape somewhere... Liked Peter Falk in that movie! Bart NP "The Incestors" Something better Change A Collection Of Classic Mutants (Hybrid Kids Volume 1) Morgan Fisher [Surely my marooned island music choice] http://www.voiceprint.co.uk/blueprint/bp262.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:46:45 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song > << Don't know the answer, but is that the same Lines who released 'White > Night' > in 1978? Can't recall ever hearing anything apart from that single - wh*ch I > absolutely LOVED! (and still do) > > Did they ever release an album then? >> > > Yes, it's the same band. And they did release at least one album, plus a few > more singles. If you've got one of the singles you should be able to work out > the link...... > > Mark yikes. got the single in front of me as we 'speak'. and i still don't know the answer...notice the singer is called hywel phillips, which is a very nice welsh name ; ) bass player joe forty's real name is newman/lewis/gilbert/gray??? why couldn't you have asked the connection with the fall - i'd know THAT one! keith np yup, 'white night'...(and it still sounds great!) 'and all the stars say go....' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:44:48 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Scary Gary > Pavement so many times I couldn't try to count, but they were more enjoyable > in their chaotic early days with acid casualty drummer Gary Young giving > everyone at every gig a carrot or some other daft gift. With or without Scary Gary, Pavement for me is the ultimate band of the nineties and I'm still sad as hell they quit. Saw them 2 times live. Bart NP "Kapital Punishment" Save your Kisses For Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:52:47 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wagnerian Brandoburger Concerti > >> About time we would start talking Wagner here - perhaps the greatest > >> artist of all times imo. Last month dutch tv broadcasted the whole of > >> Wagner's Ring > > > > oh dear. not sure i'd want to see *that*. seems like those dutch cliches are > > true. they really do show that type of thing their tv. > > "from the people that brought you BIG Brother" have you seen what they've done now - put a huge partition across the room. some 'inmates' get to live on a #400 weekly budget, the ones on the other side have a fraction but they get to see how the others are living. playing with peoples heads if you ask me. > >> Jan & Ralph... Tonight on dutch tv: an hour long special about the > > Breeders. > > see. there they go again ; ) > HERECY on all counts!!! I8-[ > Bart sorry ; ) keith ps i love 'klute' too. sutherland is fab in it... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:54:49 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song << yikes. got the single in front of me as we 'speak'. and i still don't know the answer...notice the singer is called hywel phillips, which is a very nice welsh name ; ) bass player joe forty's real name is newman/lewis/gilbert/gray??? >> Nope. Actually Hywel Philips isn't the singer on Nerve Pylon, nor listed in any other line-up of the band I've seen. (Joe Forty seems to be a constant though). What's the line-up on White Night? You might find your answer there... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:59:49 -0600 From: Neil Soiseth Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Here We Are Now ENTERTAIN US! on 09.6.02 3:29 PM, Eric Strang at eric719@webtv.net wrote: > I'd like to get away from the mainstream more. My problem is where to > look for this stuff. I see listees mentioning artists I've never heard > of. Where do you guys find out about these artists? In magazines? > Websites? Do you listen to samples first? Or just take a chance? > Discuss please. I highly recommend signing up with eMusic.com. US$15 a month for unlimited downloads of legal mp3s licensed out by indie labels. There's a search engine equipped with a "if you like _____ you might like _____" so you can still use your favorite artists as gauges. If you've got a cable or dsl connection, you can get a lot of new music very quickly and cheaply. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:02:54 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] BIGger Brother > have you seen what they've done now - put a huge partition across the room. > some 'inmates' get to live on a #400 weekly budget, the ones on the other > side have a fraction but they get to see how the others are living. playing > with peoples heads if you ask me. Especially if you're going to watch it! ;-) Bart NP "Jah Wurzel" Wuthering Heights ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:36:59 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song > << yikes. got the single in front of me as we 'speak'. and i still don't know > the answer...notice the singer is called hywel phillips, which is a very > nice welsh name ; ) > bass player joe forty's real name is newman/lewis/gilbert/gray??? >> > > Nope. Actually Hywel Philips isn't the singer on Nerve Pylon, nor listed in > any other line-up of the band I've seen. (Joe Forty seems to be a constant > though). What's the line-up on White Night? You might find your answer > there... > > Mark sorry, looking closer, phillips (credited merely as 'lead') must be lead guitarist not singer. rest of the line up... richard conning - 'voice' pete harker - drums joe forty - bass something tells me it's something to do with colin. at least two members look like they could be related! otheriwse, i dunno. i give in... keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:39:38 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] BIGger Brother From: Bart van Damme > NP "Jah Wurzel" Wuthering Heights >NP "Kapital Punishment" Save your Kisses For Me >NP "The Incestors" Something better Change what on earth is THIS??? Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:42:08 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] BIGger Brother >> NP "Jah Wurzel" Wuthering Heights >> NP "Kapital Punishment" Save your Kisses For Me >> NP "The Incestors" Something better Change > > what on earth is THIS??? > > Keith > The Mothah Superiah of Experimental Fun: Mr. Morgan Fisher "It should come as no surprise whatsoever to learn th at Hybrid Kids Volume 1 - A Collection of Classic Mutants is not in fact a galaxy of soon-to-be-legendary bands from Peabody, Texas (the more-than-hip version of Akron, Ohio), but instead the work of none other than experimental musician, neo glam pop star, guru devotee, and curator of arguably rocks wackiest and most original compilation album, Miniatures [Blueprint BP159CD], Morgan Fisher. This cuddly mess of an album9 contains extensive sleevenotes and deluxe artwork." http://www.voiceprint.co.uk/blueprint/bp262.htm http://www.nic.com/~dzien/fisher.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:44:20 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song Keith, I shall wait for someone to put you out of your misery. Meanwhile a check on the production credits of 80s Wire singles may provide the link ;-) Mark << sorry, looking closer, phillips (credited merely as 'lead') must be lead guitarist not singer. rest of the line up... richard conning - 'voice' pete harker - drums joe forty - bass something tells me it's something to do with colin. at least two members look like they could be related! otheriwse, i dunno. i give in... >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:04:11 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Morgan Fisher's Miniatures >> what on earth is THIS??? >> >> Keith By the way... anybody got this one on cd? 3Miniatures2 (51 one-minute tracks by Robert Fripp, Robert Wyatt, Michael Nyman, Gavin Bryars, members of The Flying Lizards, The Pretenders, XTC, The Penguin Cafe Orchestra, The Damned and other artists)." I can only play a veeeery old and crippled cassette myself... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:17:10 +0100 From: "Fergus Kelly" Subject: [idealcopy] Eno/Wire Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:09:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Contemporary classical "Let's see if I can tie this to Wire... Webern has been performed by Kronos Quartet (on At The Grave Of Richard Wagner), who worked with Philip Glass (on his String Quartets and the Dracula soundtrack), who worked with Brian Eno (on Low Symphony), who has met Colin! There must be a closer match between Eno and Wire. Anyone?" Colin is on the thank you list on Eno & J Peter Schwalm's "Drawn From Life" CD... for what exactly I don't know... Fergus _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:35:59 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song In a message dated 10/06/2002 17:45:02 GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > shall wait for someone to put you out of your misery. Meanwhile a check on > the production credits of 80s Wire singles may provide the link ;-) > > Mark > A wild guess...Mike Thorne ? NP.@ One Little Indian Gems Eskimos & Egypt --Perfect Disease Finitribe -- An Unexpected Groovy Treat Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:01:29 -0500 From: "Michael Flaherty" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Eno-Wire Connections >From: Andrew Westmeyer >worked with Brian Eno (on Low Symphony), who has met >Colin! There must >be a closer match between Eno and Wire. Anyone? Top of my head: Eno played on the first He Said album; Nick Kent (or someone like that) called 154 the album Bowie and Eno wanted to make but couldn't (or something like that); Colin once stated that Graham and Bruce wanted Eno to produce one of their albums, but that he (Colin) wasn't too keen on the idea. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:50:13 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song > NP.Finitribe -- An Unexpected Groovy Treat > Chris and a right groovy treat it was! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:35:11 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Looting! Burning! Rape! << EGL: The other ones you mention are all texts that I've written and inevitably it goes back to private obsessions really. Perhaps I once wanted to be a war correspondent. >> >>>A theme evident in Agfers, of course. Often wondered why Reuters didn't get the Pink Flag treatment in 2000. A Guess: I bet they tried it and found that for whatever reason, they couldn't get the atmosphere right? I wouldn't be at all surprised if Colin had become uncomfortable with the lyrics... >>>Seemed an obvious one to rework/minimalise. It does doesn't it? Another guess: Could it have ended up too close to Pink Flag? Or vice versa? Stripping Pink Flag down the way they did made it seem more like Reuters than it did on their debut album. >>>And dead shouty. Maybe just dead? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:43:05 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Refugees Intertwined Alone > It is certainly interesting when art reflects such things (more so than lager > louts and liggers) and is often an excuse for a good bit of noise, if any is > needed. >>>Judging from your interview down here it seems your main and only topic. That's just an excerpt. > GAR: The lyrics of Mercy are phenomenal and that's from a dream isn't it? [C'mon man, little less sucking up and giving answers to your own questions] OK, next time I'll ask them why they didn't play Mr Suit and call them a bunch of sell outs because they've worn suits. We'll invite in a swarm of Dutch rum gaggers to swarm about with useful advice and interruptions from the side and troupe out to the toilet so that they can enact their touching displays. Or I'll just do a Bart and ask Graham if he wrote a song credited to Colin... << > GAR: The lyrics of Mercy are phenomenal and that's from a dream isn't it? [C'mon man, little less sucking up and giving answers to your own questions] Not so much answering my own question as having done a bit of research before asking questions... From the Holy History passed down by word of mouth to St Kevin of Eden: Mercy! Graham: I had a very strange dream and woke up and wrote it down. It started off as being very sinister and became quite apocalyptical at the end. An image of a carpet being lifted and instead of insects underneath there were people who were in a state of fright when the lights were upon them. Bruce: The words were eccentric. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:45:03 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Vien "I know them through Jon Wozencroft, of Touch and Neville Brody fame, who basically has been obsessed by them ever since I've known him, and made a point of meeting and getting to know them ages ago.They had a long track called "The First Letter" which wasn't on the album of the same name, and which they planned to play once at a gig in Vienna, then forget it forever (Wire are like that). They also played it at a London gig and for Austrian Radio (ORF). It was later released by Touch. Wir - Vien I tend to of it as the final(?) mutation of Over Theirs, which was their other big R&D track of the 80s alongside Drill. The H30 remix is excellent and ought to appeal to anyone who likes Cabaret Voltaire... Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Kaffe Mathews & Andy Moor - Locks (www.unsounds.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:46:10 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Simple Phrases Repeated with Minor Variations Fergus spoke of Morton >>>Feldman (d.1987) was part of a artistic firmament of composers, coreographers, painters and writers in the 50s and 60s that included John Cage, Merce Cunningham, Mark Rothko, Philip Guston et al. His stuff is remarkable in it's simpicity (always seeking to remove rather than include). The later work is really pared back, and very quiet - simple phrases repeated over with minor variations. Could that last phrase also sometimes apply to Wire? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:46:58 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Dot Dash >>and for those of us who don't mind having a listen to manscape now and then... Or even thosewho like listening to it? >>every time i'm online i am reminded of >>"welcome, welcome" >>and "goodbye" - - -another the paul Whilst for me it's Don't Crash! Don't Crash! DON'T CRASH!!!! (an interpretation which was unlikely when the song was written) Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Techno Animal - Re-Entry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:48:16 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Sonic Memories >>>I've just got my ticket for the London gig on 25/6. Not seen 'em for a very long time - the ICA circa 1985! Saw them last on 'Washing Machine' tour - big light show which they pulled off well without getting too cheesy. Started w/ Sister oldies White Kross & Schizophrenia but I think they've played White Kross just about every time I've seen them. Support band the Make Up had a really hard time with hecklers. Saw them 3 times on the 'Dirty' tour with Pavement & Cell supporting, Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham. Theresa's Soundworld tended to be the gig highlight. Fell asleep after Cell set in Notts to be awoken as Pavement started playing, which was quite disorientating. Interviewed Cell & Pavement. Reading Festival as the sun set and the stage began to glow green & orange they played Chapel Hill & Drunken Butterfly from the as yet unreleased 'Dirty' - - it was also probably the best line up they ever had for a single day at that festival. Liverpool Royal Court 'Goo' tour particularly memorable was Tom Violence and the way they segued Mote & Flower... also they'd dumped everything from Daydream Nation. Almost chucked myself off the balcony at the Kilburn National when they dropped by to play most of Daydream Nation, it seemed that exciting to be seeing them at last after years of waiting... my friend rushed out just as I was almost outside to drag me back in for the late encore - a Stooges Dog pile up w/ Mudhoney. At the time I was temporarily homeless and lugging a sleeping bag full of Sonic Youth, Pixies, Big Black & Wire albums around with me. BTW There are Quicktime files of their rehearsal yesterday at www.sonicyouth.com Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:48:34 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Bizarre Noise Obscures Jazz Craig collected >>>I have a music collection that ranges from obscure Jazz stuff, through pop and mainstream rock, to bizarre noise experiments and so on... What obscure jazz are you into? What are the bizarre noise experiments? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Main - Firmament live (sub rosa) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:49:50 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Bart Gas Sinking (Flush On Returning) > If I was an all knowing master, there would be no point in interviewing Wire. >>>If you want SOME credit as an interviewer Why do you think I want credit? If I needed credit I could mortgage my life like Jerry did and just hope Mayor T Wilson will spare me! >>>you should come up with a little more attitude like last time: And perhaps I should also relocate to the toilet? Flush On Returning >> but to me some of the songs deliberately try to >> imitate a Pink Flagish feel. What you probably mean is that some of the songs remind you of Pink Flag. How can you know if they were deliberately imitating it? > I asked Colin about this . > His reply is that there was no intention to be retro. That comment wasn't from an interview. >>>Amazing sharp and witty. I don't think his intention was to be 'sharp & witty,' just to get his point of view across quickly in an email. He expanded on the reasons why Wire gravitated towards the Pink Flag songs in the latter part of the 'Brochure' retrospective phase in his Resonance broadcast - in short they felt those songs seemed more relevant to today than their 80s material did. I also wrote here that I thought there was a reversion to a minimalism of a sort. With the exception of Robert, Wire have been mostly making music with computers over the last decade or so. It seems inevitable when they reworked older material it would be the simpler songs that worked most effectively with in the live guitar setting. Perhaps echoes of Pink Flag occur simply because this was the simplest material Wire had made? I also see Read & Burn as a third (re)beginning of sorts. Second time around they started with Snakedrill, and it could be argued that both the opening tracks are radical reworkings of 12XU, although this seems far from obvious. The jumping on point for Read and Burn was more obviously a reworking - 12 Times You - perhaps this is why you weren't surprised? What do you think of In Esse, Insiding & Orr? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine Np Bruce Gilbert - Ab Ovo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:36:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] searching a song << sorry, looking closer, phillips (credited merely as 'lead') must be lead guitarist not singer. rest of the line up... richard conning - 'voice' pete harker - drums joe forty - bass something tells me it's something to do with colin. at least two members look like they could be related! otheriwse, i dunno. i give in... shall wait for someone to put you out of your misery. Meanwhile a check on the production credits of 80s Wire singles may provide the link ;-) A wild guess...Mike Thorne ?<< Mr Thorne's involvement with things Wire ended at A-Z, technically 80s, but not actually Wire.... Like I said, the answer's on the credits.... Main man of the Lines was one Richard Conning. Better known by his nickname Rico, he produced Eardrum Buzz, The Offer and In Vivo. (though not the 7inch In Vivo, which was remixed by Mr Newman. Colin apparently didn't get on with Rico Conning. "He thought I was the rock star cunt of the group," quoth CN in the good book. No golden anoraks for you lot. 3/10. See me. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:18:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] Couple of items... ICists~ So I was listening to R&B and was wondering about 'Agfers..' is it an anagram or slang word? Or is it a made up 'nonsense' word that sounds cool? Also, I read that a partial lunar eclipse is occuring around sunset! On a somewhat related note, did you all notice that someone's selling the moon on Ebay?? And this popped up on the Tom Waits list today. It's a pretty intersting interview as you might guess! - ------------------------------------------------- From the Summer 2002 issue of Black Book magazine: GRIMM'S REAPERS Set to release two new albums, 'Alice' and 'Blood Money', legendary musician Tom Waits talks with visionary director Terry Gilliam. Carnivals, crows, and freak shows aside, they speak in tongues. - ------------------------------------------------- ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:24:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Couple of items... - --- Santa Cruzer wrote: > So I was listening to R&B and was wondering about > 'Agfers..' is it an anagram or slang word? Or is it a > made up 'nonsense' word that sounds cool? Probably all of the above! Agfers is to Agfa what Kodack is to Kodak, with Agfa and Kodak being prominent photography companies. I doubt that the mispelling is merely for copyright reasons (check out the reference to Ford in Germ Ship). > Also, I read that a partial lunar eclipse is occuring > around sunset! It's occuring right now! 6:20 PM in Phoenix, Arizona, USA. It's darker than usual outside. I don't have the proper glasses, so I can't look directly at the sun to confirm. ===== Andrew Westmeyer anw7pima@yahoo.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #190 *******************************