From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #185 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, June 7 2002 Volume 05 : Number 185 Today's Subjects: ----------------- AW: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! [Woerner Frank ] [idealcopy] searching a song [Woerner Frank ] Re: [idealcopy] Enough Hat Speak to make a Wise Man Hum! [Andrew Walkings] [idealcopy] ica gig [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Music snobbery [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] disordered systems [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] world crap [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Fat Beuys Buzzing [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Nice Streets are Rhizomes [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Music snobbery ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) [An] Re: [idealcopy] Blur and the Bill Hick Formula [Mr Grumpy ] [idealcopy] (OT) more news on Dee Dee [Mr Grumpy ] [idealcopy] radio 6 Music Newsletter ["Keith Astbury" Subject: AW: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: PaulRabjohn@aol.com [mailto:PaulRabjohn@aol.com] > Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Juni 2002 09:33 > An: Eardrumbuz@aol.com; idealcopy@smoe.org > Betreff: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > > > er , so any predictions for the england/argies game? must say > i have littel optimism on this one , my heart says 1 -1 but > my head says we lose about 2-0. > > ominously , p with a little help from the hand of god ... Argentina will win. FrakfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:43:32 +0100 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Enough Hat Speak to make a Wise Man Hum! > Andrew's relative dimensions were faced Does that mean Andrew travels round in an ARDIS? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:59:29 +0100 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nice Streets are Rhizomes Ah yes, and with a deft brush of the keyboard Graeme renders himself the fifth member of Wire, how conveniently Rhizomatic. No interviewer's deference to the interviewee then... GAR: Maybe by then we'll have changed into something else. BCG: "Give me the button!" is what I say! EGL: As Joseph Beuys said, "The greatest thing in the world is the atom bomb. This is he greatest piece of work! Give everybody one! I want one in my bathroom! Do not be frightened of this thing. Be frightened of the man who has it!" Who are the fuckers with the buttons? There are some pretty dodgy characters out there. GAR: Crazy bastards who have to spend their whole life pursuing that goal. EGL: Power. GAR: To spend their lives chasing power they must be insane. EGL: It tends to go towards that. And that's exactly what Joseph Beuys was saying: change yourself. Listen to Beuys, he obviously knew what he was talking about, change yourself. Could GAR really be the same earnest young man who implored me to purchase a copy of Cracked Machine at the RFH those years ago? I must say "campness" was observed, apropos of nothing. Meanwhile Rhizomatic theory is propounded by means of a hierarchical structure (the internet) along with cleverly seeded trees of critical validity (Blur=Shite and if you disagree you're wrong). A Rhizome in the context of the internet is a computer without a modem. Change yourself, some of the rest of us are too busy making a difference to our married mortgaged lives. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 03:03:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Music snobbery >> BTW, I bet the majority on this list have >> Oasis records in their collection, >> I know I do. > >I think it's very brave of you to admit to owning >anything by them. Why? While I don't own any Oasis myself, surely it makes no odds if someone has an album by them? This list does descend into music snobbery quite a lot these days... Heck, I own Tears for Fears' Greatest Hits on CD, and I really like 'Mad World' and one or two other tracks. I don't feel brave 'owning up' to that, as I have a music collection that ranges from obscure Jazz stuff, through pop and mainstream rock, to bizarre noise experiments and so on... I'm sure there was a point to this post when I started, but there you go. It's in there somewhere. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.org News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:44:10 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: [idealcopy] searching a song Hi, what was the website where I could find a song when I only know parts of its lyrics. Its an 80ies pop song starting with: "you've been reading my diary, now you know me inside out ..." regards, FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:02:23 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Enough Hat Speak to make a Wise Man Hum! On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 10:43:32AM +0100, Jerry wrote: > > Andrew's relative dimensions were faced > > Does that mean Andrew travels round in an ARDIS? Only if an ARDIS is some sort of pushbike... and anyway, I don't have the taste in scarves to be even an abbreviated Doctor. (As for doctor with a small d, I start on that in October - 'Ab initio calculations on disordered systems' ...) Andrew - -- "What else can I write? I don't have the right, Who else can I be? All apologies... " - Nirvana, "All Apologies" ('In Utero') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:10:47 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] ica gig Looking at the details of the ica gig @ posteverything it gives ticket prices as #10, #9 & #8 now the ica space is just a room with a stage at one end so I would expect 'a one size fits all' ticket price I don't understand... A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:16:47 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Music snobbery On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 03:03:58AM -0700, Wireviews wrote: > >> BTW, I bet the majority on this list have > >> Oasis records in their collection, > >> I know I do. > > > >I think it's very brave of you to admit to owning > >anything by them. > > > Why? While I don't own any Oasis myself, surely it > makes no odds if someone has an album by them? This > list does descend into music snobbery quite a lot > these days... *applause* > Heck, I own Tears for Fears' Greatest Hits on CD, and... I've got it on tape. I also have most of Queen's albums on tape, and most of the Pet Shop Boys stuff up to "Very" on either tape or vinyl - all bought before I *had* a CD player (plus Queen's "A Night at the Opera" on CD). I have the Abba singles collection, most of the Bob Dylan up to Desire, Kate Bush's greatest hits, U2, Chemical Brothers, Byrds, Fat Boy Slim, and Simon and Garfunkel records. I'm sure there's at least one person on the list who would be shocked by each of these records. (I like Blur too, as you've all seen). I also own Sleeper's "The It Girl", and though I wouldn't go and listen to it now, I don't think it's really all *THAT* bad. It's inoffensive guitar pop, and it's pleasant enough. I can't being myself to hate it. :) To be honest, I'm past caring about what people think of my record collection. Records, as I see it (and of course, I could well be wrong...) have the wonderful feature that, if other people really hate them, you can resort to headphones: if they give *you* pleasure, this need not affect anyone else and thus there's no need to be ashamed for liking *anything*. Unless, of course, you want music to change the world: but then, it could be argued that what you really want is to change the world, and you've just latched onto music as a means of doing this. If this is the case, you've (in my opinion) *missed the point*: music, as a means of expression, seems _for me_ to be far more effective for the personal than the global. Andrew - -- "Days of the conflicts you've been in; Traces of conscience you don't want to hear..." - - Rival Schools, "Used for Glue" ('United by Fate') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:36:41 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Music snobbery > I have a music collection that ranges from obscure Jazz stuff, > through pop and mainstream rock, to bizarre noise > experiments and so on... Hey, that's MY collection you're talking about! I would like to add that the classical music world also has a great deal to offer! You could say it's also devided in a mainstream and an avantgarde. Lately I've been listening a lot to Sjostakovich, Strawinski, Arvo Part, Schnittke, Ives and Bach. Next to that good ol' Santa just got me 3 [THREE!] Bruce Gilbert [Insiding, In Esse and Orr] albums [and a long lost Turns & Strokes] wich have been on for the last 2 days! [thnx again Santa!] Darn! Come to think of it... not THE best list for agreeing with an anti-snobbery mail. Bart[a fact] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:47:41 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] disordered systems > (As for doctor with a small d, I start on that in October - > 'Ab initio calculations on disordered systems' ...) This list seems as good a place as any to start your inquieries then... ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:50:11 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] world crap oooh! it's very quiet... the english must be in shock... ;--) A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:56:57 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] world crap Alistair was heard to say: >> oooh! >> it's very quiet... >> the english must be in shock... ;--) Well, I think we all stayed in the pub for that extra drink to celebrate. Never a doubt. AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:10:10 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fat Beuys Buzzing > Listen to Beuys, he obviously knew what he was talking about, > change yourself. I changed BEUYS once when still in artschool. ;-) I took a famous portrait of him, copied it at 200% horizontally, silkscreened it 4 times and iconoclastically wrote "Fat Beuys" on it - this of course because of Beuys' use of fat in his works - how deep of me! http://www.english.swt.edu/cohen_p/Postmodern/Art/Beuys/Chair.html Oh well, my tutors got the joke and laughed... Didn't think that much of him at that time [him explaining art to bunnies 'n all], but I must say he has grown on me through the years. A bit like Wirelyrics he uses metaphors a lot in his art. The bunnies turned out to be Albrecht Durer's famous hare painting wich brings such a conversation on a whole different level. Building bridges as Graham Lewis perhaps did with the Bosch painting in Madman's Honey [honey & bee's - now this can't be a coincidence]. David Syvian at the time of his Secrets of the Beehive accredited Beuys' shaman-like quality too, focussing on the his finding the business of beekeeping amongst the noblest around. Buzz buzz... Last year I saw a brilliant work of art called the Beekeeper in the Stedelijk Museum in Amsterdam from Belgian artist Jan Fabre who seemed a worthy successor of Beuys. It depicts a sort of monks habit entirely made of scarabs. Strongest work of art I'd seen in years! Jan Fabre: "The body as a shell, empty yet full of memory. To me the research into my own body is a laboratory - it is a strange instrument you wake up with every day. I also consider how I can I protect this body; what new protection do I have to give my body to survive this world. In the period when I started these scarab sculptures I was also looking at the body as a shell. the idea was that all these sculptures are some kind of male and female angels based on Bruegel's monks and images of Mary. The scarabs have an outer skeleton, not an inner skeleton like humans, so in a sense I made these shapes with the outer skeleton of the oldest animal in the world. When there were no insects, no humans could survive on this planet. The idea is also that the shell is an outer skeleton and contains a kind of a memory." For all you beetlebums: http://www.studio-visit.com/interview2.html And all you eardrums: "Aren't Beuys' Bees Buzzing?" http://day.kiev.ua/DIGEST/1999/36/culture/cul5.htm Bart [wisely sticking to graphic designing lately] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:26:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nice Streets are Rhizomes << Could GAR really be the same earnest young man who implored me to purchase a copy of Cracked Machine at the RFH those years ago? I must say "campness" was observed, apropos of nothing. >> He sold me one too. "Drunkness" was observed, and has been on subsequent meetings ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:52:16 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! In a message dated 6/7/02 2:36:13 AM Central Daylight Time, PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: << er , so any predictions for the england/argies game? must say i have littel optimism on this one , my heart says 1 -1 but my head says we lose about 2-0. ominously , p >> YEEEEEESSSSS!!!!! ENGLAND 1 ARGENTINA 0..... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:01:44 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Music snobbery > > >> BTW, I bet the majority on this list have > > >> Oasis records in their collection, > > >> I know I do. > > > > > >I think it's very brave of you to admit to owning > > >anything by them. > > > > > > Why? While I don't own any Oasis myself, surely it > > makes no odds if someone has an album by them? This > > list does descend into music snobbery quite a lot > > these days... > > *applause* > > > Heck, I own Tears for Fears' Greatest Hits on CD, and... > > I've got it on tape. I also have most of Queen's albums on tape, and > most of the Pet Shop Boys stuff up to "Very" on either tape or vinyl - > all bought before I *had* a CD player (plus Queen's "A Night at the > Opera" on CD). > > I have the Abba singles collection, most of the Bob Dylan up to Desire, > Kate Bush's greatest hits, U2, Chemical Brothers, Byrds, Fat Boy Slim, > and Simon and Garfunkel records. yikes. don't get *me* started!!! keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:10:23 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > YEEEEEESSSSS!!!!! ENGLAND 1 ARGENTINA 0..... > > RL ////heh heh i enjoyed that one. glad to be wrong this once. what a team , eh. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:18:02 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! >> YEEEEEESSSSS!!!!! ENGLAND 1 ARGENTINA 0..... >> >> RL > > ////heh heh i enjoyed that one. glad to be wrong this once. what a team , eh. > p Didn't see it... Who scored Paul? Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:15:49 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] searching a song In a message dated Fri, 7 Jun 2002 6:44:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Frank.Woerner@erl.sbs.de writes: > Its an 80ies pop song starting with: > > "you've been reading my diary, now you know me inside out > ..." ////dunnno the title but its by fiat lux (bill nelsons brother IIRC , what a claim to fame , eh). pretty drippy new romantic ballad? p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:23:19 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! In a message dated Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:18:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > Didn't see it... Who scored Paul? > > Bart ////owen went down for a highly dodgy penalty , which beckham scored not very convinvcingly. in other words , perfect. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:22:16 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) on 06/06/02 19:54, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>> Some tracks have been composed on the hardrive which > is the opposite to how a rock band would normally approach things!<< > > Partly because technology has only just reached a point where recording > acoustic instruuments successfully on to a computer has become possible. It's > pretty easy to record digital-to-digital, but once you start adding drum kits > to the process it gets messy. In what way? Do you mean sample rate/bit rate-wise or just the fact that today you have easier and cheaper access to hard drive recording? And why's drum recording so problematic? What's the difference between hard drive recording and other formats of digital recording, being used since the 80's? > >>> It's akin to remixing a track without having an original mix to refer to. > The > tracks on RnB01, and for that matter those on Bastard and It-ness, make a > mockery of the notion that there is any clear dividing line between > techno/dance and rock/pop and experimentation (if there ever was?).<< > > See above. It's just harder to capture a "rock" band in a digital studio than > it is on to analogue tape, especially if the band is playing "live" via amps. Why? Hard-drive recording existed for more than a decade. ADAT also. If you say it's the price that did it, then why didn't any band working at a big recording studio do anything like that before? Why didn't Blur or Radiohead, bands that had the resources of big studios and the inclination to do art-rock, do it? > > New recording methods are the nearest thing to a revolution inasmuch as home > recordings can now sound very professional providing you stick largely to > virtual/keyboard sounds. Line rather than Mic inputs; MIDI etc. Hence the > propensity towards either techno/dance/ambient/electronica for those > recording digitally. This isn't true for the last 4 or 5 years at least. Why are Wire so unique in this approach then? What I mean is that when the electric guitar was invented it was meant to be played and heard as an amplified acoustic guitar. Only later people started treating it as a new instrument and started making completely new sounds out of it. The same goes with hard drive recording and what Wire are doing. There was nothing technological that prevented this kind of stuff to be made before. Cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:32:09 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! In a message dated 6/7/02 10:18:20 AM Central Daylight Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: << Didn't see it... Who scored Paul? Bart >> Beckham on a penalty kick Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:16:57 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > er , so any predictions for the england/argies game? must say i have littel optimism on this one , my heart says >1 -1 but my head says we lose about 2-0. > > ominously , p Phew! THAT was a tense one...I'm not even English and the palpitations were starting ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:42:04 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Music snobbery > >> BTW, I bet the majority on this list have > >> Oasis records in their collection, > >> I know I do. > > > >I think it's very brave of you to admit to owning > >anything by them. > > > Why? While I don't own any Oasis myself, surely it > makes no odds if someone has an album by them? This > list does descend into music snobbery quite a lot > these days... > > Heck, I own Tears for Fears' Greatest Hits on CD, and > I really like 'Mad World' and one or two other tracks. I don't really like TFF, BUT 'Mad World' is a great pop single. I recall them admitting that the production (as opposed to the songwriting) was heavily influenced by the Teardrops 'Wilder', and there is a definite likeness. Talking of whom - cue Radio One-like link - I've been playing the Teardrops 'Kilimanjaro' a lot the last week or so. It still sounds *great* to me. To think it didn't get great reviews at the time because it had inferior versions of the 'Zoo' 45's. I wouldn't be without them now (esp. the brass filled 'Sleeping Gas'!). Mind you, everyone was pissed off at 'Never Mind the Bollocks' having the singles on it - can you really imagine it any other way? (or people being particularly arsed now that an album had singles on it - have we become conditioned here???) Whether The Pistols had long term greatness in mind or no other songs is open to debate, but England have just won, Ireland will *surely* qualify, the world is a lovely place and I'm giving everyone the benefit of the doubt today ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:54:05 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) << In what way? Do you mean sample rate/bit rate-wise or just the fact that today you have easier and cheaper access to hard drive recording? And why's drum recording so problematic? What's the difference between hard drive recording and other formats of digital recording, being used since the 80's? >> Well software-driven recording gives you flexibility to do a lot more manipulation of sound on screen, such as the ability to cut/paste, stretch, loop etc with a mouse click, on a fairly low-cost system. "Hardware-driven" digital recording simply replaces a tape recorder with a digital recording device. >>Why? Hard-drive recording existed for more than a decade. ADAT also. If you say it's the price that did it, then why didn't any band working at a big recording studio do anything like that before? Why didn't Blur or Radiohead, bands that had the resources of big studios and the inclination to do art-rock, do it?<< Because they use big studios, and big studios have invested millions in recording technology that is now being rendered obsolete - or at least replaceable - by something much cheaper that does the same job. Having said that I'm sure some of KidA was done on to HD. Likewise New Order used Pro Tools extensively on Get Ready. Like most innovations, don't expect them to come from the mainstream. >>This isn't true for the last 4 or 5 years at least. Why are Wire so unique in this approach then? What I mean is that when the electric guitar was invented it was meant to be played and heard as an amplified acoustic guitar. Only later people started treating it as a new instrument and started making completely new sounds out of it. The same goes with hard drive recording and what Wire are doing. There was nothing technological that prevented this kind of stuff to be made before.<< But not affordable. Mac/PC technology has only really been up to really hi-res recording for about 2 years, maybe 3 at most. You can be up and running with a very useable digital studio now for less than #1,000. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:21:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) mark > > New recording methods are the nearest thing to a revolution inasmuch as home > > recordings can now sound very professional providing you stick largely to > > virtual/keyboard sounds. Line rather than Mic inputs; MIDI etc. Hence the > > propensity towards either techno/dance/ambient/electronica for those > > recording digitally. > giluz > This isn't true for the last 4 or 5 years at least. Why are Wire so unique > in this approach then? What I mean is that when the electric guitar was > invented it was meant to be played and heard as an amplified acoustic > guitar. Only later people started treating it as a new instrument and > started making completely new sounds out of it. the sound of the electric gtr was MEANT to sound like an amplified guitar, but the technology wasn't up to it hence the different, less 'clean' sound. so while manufacturers were trying to perfect it, thankfully some other people were thinking along the lines of 'hey, make the sound *dirtier*, not cleaner'. apparently ritchie blackmore of all people was a prominent figure in all this. thank you ritchie. your 'smoke on the water' riff / crime against music is now forgiven ; ) keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 19:24:03 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) on 07/06/02 17:54, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>> Why? Hard-drive recording existed for more than a decade. ADAT also. If you > say it's the price that did it, then why didn't any band working at a big > recording studio do anything like that before? Why didn't Blur or Radiohead, > bands that had the resources of big studios and the inclination to do > art-rock, do it?<< > > Because they use big studios, and big studios have invested millions in > recording technology that is now being rendered obsolete - or at least > replaceable - by something much cheaper that does the same job. Having said > that I'm sure some of KidA was done on to HD. Likewise New Order used Pro > Tools extensively on Get Ready. Exactly my point. Though available to the 'general' music-making public (i.e. the ones that can't afford a professional recording studio) only in the last few years, Pro-Tools (and similar programs/hardware) dominated the professional recording studios much before that. Why did these devices have mostly been used as convenient replacements to the more conventional tools producers and engineers use? Why not treat them as instruments/composing tools, just like the electronics musicians did? > Like most innovations, don't expect them to come from the mainstream. When asked in an interview a few years ago on what instrument he plays best, Colin chose his G4 Mac. That's the kind of attitude which led to R&B. >There was nothing technological > that prevented this kind of stuff to be made before.<< > > But not affordable. Mac/PC technology has only really been up to really > hi-res recording for about 2 years, maybe 3 at most. You can be up and > running with a very useable digital studio now for less than #1,000. So why aren't there more people that do that kind of creative work in their homes? There are lots of people that use these technologies and do audio manipulation on a hard drive. But there are very few people that use the approaches towards music being introduced in 90's electronics to make something new in 'rock'. Like you said, it did exist for at least 2 years - where's everyone then? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 19:25:53 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) on 07/06/02 18:21, Keith Astbury at keith.astbury10@virgin.net wrote: > the sound of the electric gtr was MEANT to sound like an amplified guitar, > but the technology wasn't up to it hence the different, less 'clean' sound. > so while manufacturers were trying to perfect it, thankfully some other > people were thinking along the lines of 'hey, make the sound *dirtier*, not > cleaner'. apparently ritchie blackmore of all people was a prominent figure > in all this. thank you ritchie. your 'smoke on the water' riff / crime > against music is now forgiven ; ) I think Hendrix and Clapton, to name just two obvious examples, did it much before him. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:39:47 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > > Didn't see it... Who scored Paul? > > > > Bart > > ////owen went down for a highly dodgy penalty , which beckham scored not very convinvcingly. in other words , perfect. p do you think it was *that* dodgy? i just thought he, shall we say, *made the most* of what was an unfair challenge. crap penalty mind, on another day and all that!!! phew... incidentally, owen's from these parts (you want to see the 'hall' he's bought) - and though i'm not one to bear a grudge - honest - he should be playing for us! (giggs, owen, bellamy, now *that'd* be a forward line!!!) keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:45:49 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) > > the sound of the electric gtr was MEANT to sound like an amplified guitar, > > but the technology wasn't up to it hence the different, less 'clean' sound. > > so while manufacturers were trying to perfect it, thankfully some other > > people were thinking along the lines of 'hey, make the sound *dirtier*, not > > cleaner'. apparently ritchie blackmore of all people was a prominent figure > > in all this. thank you ritchie. your 'smoke on the water' riff / crime > > against music is now forgiven ; ) > > I think Hendrix and Clapton, to name just two obvious examples, did it much > before him. > > giluz Apparently not. i read that blackmore actually approached gtr/amp manufacturers and told them what he wanted- WAY before his Purple days and subsequent fame... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:57:06 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] Chicago here I come Actually, I just realized that I have a prior commitment the weekend of Sept. 20-22 (I'm a Cincinnati Reds fan, and I'm headed to Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati to see the final series in that ballpark), which means Atlanta is out. So it looks like Chicago on Sept. 14th is the winner, barring the addition of any additional low-airfare weekend dates (though a sure-to-be-added SF date, Seattle, and NYC are also places I like to go). A Chicago weekend is always a good thing for us -- the Art Institute, the Field Museum, Marshall Field, record shopping north of Wrigley Field, the Berghoff -- so it'll be a fun getaway. Anyway, if ICers want to organize a preshow get-together, that would be keen. I know my way around the Loop but I've never been to the Metro, so those with local knowledge should probably organize rather than me. And let's hope we can do better at recognizing each other than the ICers did at the Feb2000 RFH show -- we said we'd gather at the bar, but little did I know that approximately 7,452 other people would be crowded in there, and I succeeded at meeting only one list member! (Though I did meet Craig just before the show and saw him again afterwards.) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:44:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Music snobbery ICers~ I think the point is that none of us should never confuse our personal musical tastes with overall quality. > I'm sure there was a point to this post when I > started, but there you go. It's in there somewhere. > > Craig. .yahoo.com RJH - Who owns TFF "Seeds of Love" in addition to my one Oasis album! ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:45:10 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 07:24:03PM +0200, giluz wrote: > Exactly my point. Though available to the 'general' music-making public > (i.e. the ones that can't afford a professional recording studio) only in > the last few years, Pro-Tools (and similar programs/hardware) dominated the > professional recording studios much before that. Why did these devices have > mostly been used as convenient replacements to the more conventional tools > producers and engineers use? Why not treat them as instruments/composing > tools, just like the electronics musicians did? I believe Radiohead did: on "Planet Telex" and "Airbag", and the B-sides "Talk Show Host" and particularly "Meeting in the Aisle", in particular. Andrew - -- "When I drive alone at night, I see the streetlights as fairgrounds, And I tried a hundred times, to see the road-signs as day-glo..." - - Mogwai, "Cody" ('Come On, Die Young') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:47:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Grumpy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Blur and the Bill Hick Formula I think it's great we can bitch about each other and yet sound so civilized! Cheers, Billy (who just saw the sun for the first time in days!) - --- Tim wrote: > Feeling uncool, too mainstream, too normal? > Tired of being crushed by the wheels of industry, > and flayed alive by Big > Brother and the police state? > > Don't worry folks. You can all be Bill Hick. Follow > these simple steps and > you too can ejaculate your pearls of spunky wisdom > all over Idealcopists > everywhere, just like the bard of Whalley Range. > And all without the expensive drugs. > > So lets imagine I quite innocently say: While I > don't really like Blur and > find Damon Allbran and his champagne swigging pals > somewhat punchable, I do > think they wrote some splendid pop songs and 'This > is a Low' is a great > melancholic pop song, and that track they had in > Trainspotting worked > brilliantly in the soundtrack...and their > namechecking of Wire will have > meant that lots of copies of Pink Flag, 154 and > Chairs Missing were sold in > the mid 90s. > > 1. First have a little personal dig at the writer > of the message e.g: > > "Vicars Son praised Blur....." > > Something like that. > > 2. Then quote a Fall Lyric, appropos of nothing: > > "Undulating plyon trestle, spells arid belt for the > Fun Boy > Three-ah....apply farmyard to the bespectacled > acupunturist-ah...." > > 3. Then quote verbatim from the Bible (i.e > 'Everybody Loves a History') > > EGL "I've never liked Vicars, or their sons" > BG "Blur are crap as well" > EGL "I wish Graeme Rowland would come and interview > us again.." > BG "And basically we make music for ourselves, and > if someone else likes it > thats a bonus" > > 4. And whats on the Binatone Midi system? > > "NP: Mechanoid Trill - 'Customise the Undead'" > > > _+__+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+)+__+_+__ > Do you Yahoo? I'm so Anarchic I carry adverts on my > e-mail > Hotmail Me Till I Spurgle My Largactic Brooligals. ===== /\/\/\ { . . } /\ -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:51:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Music snobbery ICist~ I apologize for my "not enough coffee yet" grammar! > I think the point is that none of us should EVER > confuse our personal musical tastes with overall > quality. ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:51:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Grumpy Subject: [idealcopy] (OT) more news on Dee Dee Here's what Billboard had to say: http://www.billboard.com/billboard/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1508927 ===== /\/\/\ { . . } /\ -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:35:27 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] radio 6 Music Newsletter a few things in the radio 6 newsletter that might interest some subscribers. a top 50 listeners chart (not a bad one overall, but david gray??? and i'm a bit suspicious of the ian mcnabb vote!) a stone roses concert available on line and news of andy gill (GO4) on the radio. keith > Buckle up and settle down, it's another 6 Music Newsletter > > - GLORIOUS 50 - > Over the Jubilee Bank Holiday we finally unveiled the list of 50 albums you voted for in our survey of the best music of the last 50 years. We hope you had a chance to hear some of the tracks. If you want to check the full list you'll find it on our Glorious 50 pages > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/promo/glorious50.shtml > The Stone Roses are the band who topped the Glorious 50 chart, and if you're quick, you have until the end of Tuesday to listen online to five fantastic tracks from a 1995 Stone Roses gig recorded by the BBC at the Leeds Town and Country Club. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/bbcsessions/dream_ticket.shtml > > - MISSED A SHOW? - > An exciting service will be coming soon for 6 Music Online and all of the BBC Radio websites. This will allow you to listen to some of our specialist music shows whenever you want for up to a week after they are broadcast on air. Initially the shows on offer will be Brinsley Forde's Lively Up Yourself, Bruce Dickinson's Rock Show and Freak Show, Bob Harris, and Craig Charles' Funk show. You'll also be able to access specialist music shows from the other BBC networks. Watch this space for more information! > > - LIVE MUSIC / GUESTS - > On-air highlights over the next 7 days include Andy Gill of the Gang of Four with Tracey MacLeod on Sunday, former James frontman Tim Booth with Andrew Collins on Monday and Roger McGough picking his favourite party tunes for Liz Kershaw on Friday. Tom Robinson will feature session tracks all week from Lambchop & Ezio, and Gideon Coe will have live music from ex-Rockingbird Alan Tyler on Monday and Goldrush on Tuesday. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/presenters/ > > - SUGGS & BRINSLEY - > Two of our Saturday programmes are moving times from tomorrow. Don't miss Suggs with ska, Motown, rebel tunes, and your requests from 1100-1400 and Brinsley Forde's Lively Up Yourself playing the very best reggae from 1400-1500 > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/presenters/suggs/ > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/presenters/brinsley_forde/ > > - COMING UP - > We're all still dizzy with excitement from England's Victory against Argentina today. Stay tuned for 6 Music's uniquely rock 'n' roll spin on the World Cup very soon. And we can tell you that 6 Music will be live at Glastonbury on Sunday 30 June. More details in next week's newsletter. Plus Album of the Day over the next few days features Ms. Dynamite's debut and classics from Prefab Sprout, Lou Reed and the Small Faces > http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/joyof6.shtml > > Have a great weekend > Love from the 6 Music Newsletter Monkey. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #185 *******************************