From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #183 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, June 6 2002 Volume 05 : Number 183 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! [eric719@webtv.net (Er] Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? [Paul] Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? [Andr] Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Lyricists [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] Wire tour dates [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Pee Jay [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] Re: Wire tour dates [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wire tour dates [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wire tour dates [Miles Goosens ] [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #181 ["Michael Flaherty" ] [idealcopy] Chanting a Curse whilst Hanging on Furniture ["Bill Hick" > Don't know how it rates on the scale, but WC coverage has been on the front sports page most days here in Spokane, Washington. Can't stand basketball myself. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:49:47 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene > There's also an element of checking out new bands to see if their > albums turn out any good - so you'll find Strokes and White Stripes albums > here for the same reason as you'll find Oasis albums. > > Which doesn't account for the presence of Standing on the Shoulder of Giants > here*. > > *I think it was some cheapo three for a tenner deal in Weybridge Our Price, > one of which was the Nick Cave spoken word limited book/CD thing. Oasis was > the makeweight. Played it once. Absolute drivel. > > Mark OK. Even as I write I am hanging my head in shame. I like 'Standing on the Shoulder...'. It's OK...I can hear the tumbleweed blowing and I know what it feels like to be the loneliest man in the world, but it's...OK...I'll be alright. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:58:22 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene > I'd love to see a gig at the Buckley Tivoli. No chance now sadly Mark. It changed owners a few yrs ago and live music doesn't seem to be on the agenda. Even the Wednesday 'indie' night doesn't have a band on now. (I think The Fall circa '97 were the last I saw there). > I love those stupid bastions of > the NME gig guide (Hebden Bridge Trades Club, Retford Porterhouse and the > sadly deceased Cromer West Runton Pavilion). That's so funny you should mention West Runton. That was always my favourite! I would read the gig guide and wonder where the hell 'West Runton' was (they had some decent bands there). It's only recently that David mailed me off-list and told me where it was. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:00:54 +0100 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Hardcore Heart Attack Or the lost last verse from Fluke's "Tosh" > Sounds like some new verses for Kidney Bingos.... > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:15:52 +0100 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? > Bruce spoke to the Onion > "We've never really satisfied any audience; we've always satisfied ourselves. > I don't think we've ever considered the audience at all, so that crossover > situation has something to do with the internal creativity of the group and > nothing to do with the audiences. It's not something we've ever thought > about." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:20:07 +0100 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? > Bruce spoke to the Onion > "We've never really satisfied any audience; we've always satisfied ourselves. > I don't think we've ever considered the audience at all, so that crossover > situation has something to do with the internal creativity of the group and > nothing to do with the audiences. It's not something we've ever thought > about." Whilst undoubtedly being true this quote smacks disturbingly of that hoary old chestnut, and last refuge of the band with nothing to say, "We make music for ourselves and if anyone else likes it it's a bonus". Surely Bruce can do better than that, or just shut up and leave the speaking to Graham and Colin, something Robert has never had trouble with. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:20:07 +0100 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? > Bruce spoke to the Onion > "We've never really satisfied any audience; we've always satisfied ourselves. > I don't think we've ever considered the audience at all, so that crossover > situation has something to do with the internal creativity of the group and > nothing to do with the audiences. It's not something we've ever thought > about." Whilst undoubtedly being true this quote smacks disturbingly of that hoary old chestnut, and last refuge of the band with nothing to say, "We make music for ourselves and if anyone else likes it it's a bonus". Surely Bruce can do better than that, or just shut up and leave the speaking to Graham and Colin, something Robert has never had trouble with. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:57:25 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > << Choice between evils! ];-) > But I'd say Germ. 2 - Irel. 1 >> > > WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > There's only one Keano...... > > Mark Not wrong, not wrong... Dutch! :-. Germs are the the eternal foot-adversary and Ireland kicked us out of the WC! Bart [raging against the dying of... dutch football] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:02:39 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (Off topic) Something rotten... > wasn't 'babettes feast' danish? that was a great movie, even though nothing > really happened. > keith Bille August made that one. Also did the quite good "The Best Intentions" [about- and written by Ingmar Bergman] He later on shoot the rather weak "House of the Spirits". Never really pays of, does it, taking your talent to Hollywood... Bart [wondering how those poor old commie Dogma cinematographers are coping with a "far" right government] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:26:31 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! << Can't stand basketball myself. >> Do any US listers actually like basketball? It's the dullest and most tedious sport I have ever seen. And I've seen a live US game in Detroit. It seems specially designed for people with the attention span of a goldfish. mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:29:09 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene << OK. Even as I write I am hanging my head in shame. I like 'Standing on the Shoulder...'. It's OK...I can hear the tumbleweed blowing and I know what it feels like to be the loneliest man in the world, but it's...OK...I'll be alright. >> A courageous statement indeed! It just seemd to have an obvious Beatles reference at every turn. And the same ponderous, overblown production as the previous album. Too much coke, too much coke.... MArk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:38:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene << No chance now sadly Mark. It changed owners a few yrs ago and live music doesn't seem to be on the agenda. Even the Wednesday 'indie' night doesn't have a band on now. (I think The Fall circa '97 were the last I saw there).<< A tragedy. At least it hasn't been demolished, like the West Runton Pavilion.... > > That's so funny you should mention West Runton. That was always my favourite! I would read the gig guide and wonder where the hell 'West Runton' was (they had some decent bands there). It's only recently that David mailed me off-list and told me where it was. >> Top of East Anglia. I met a girl from there once who'd been to it. Apparently it was demolished in the 80s. Scene of the legendary 'Robert Rental and the Normal live at West Runton Pavilion' album of course... and to keep on topic, Wire played there on February 17, 1978. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:42:37 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene Rick: > PS - Bart, I would be one of the folks who own one > Oasis album, 'Definitely Maybe'. I would agree that > they are f**king assholes, so I won't pay to see them > live, but they have written some good songs occasionally. I got the first two albums at the time wich had some great songs on them. Giluz: > I think it's very brave of you to admit to owning anything by them. No bravery here I'm afraid. My point wasn't so much standing up for Oasis [the idea!] as for the freedom of expressing whatever you like on this list without having to give a toss about being put down for it. The fact that every one of us have subscribed to a Wire-list should give 'm credit enough. Next to this common factor every difference imo is only to be embraced. Paul: > er , that was my point really. oasis had one half-good idea and flogged it to > death. i quite liked "supersonic" but i think the first album is certainly all > you need , the latter albums are appalling. whatever you think of blur , you > couldn't say they didn't try new ideas. Giluz: > I think > Oasis was probably the turning point for me, when I realised that despite > (and maybe because) of the 80's being a great time to make pop, this time > has passed. Like I said before, Oasis and Blur could be worth something > (though I doubt it) if they would have been born 10 years earlier. The only > difference between those two, is that Blur's attitude came out of the indie > scene - their intentions were quite serious (though their results less so), > while Oasis were just about becoming rock stars, and had even less talent > than Blur. Still think Blur deserves more credit here. Master Andrew has done a splendid job in explaining why the other day. I certainly couldn't have put it better. Every mail I have to get the dictionary at least 3 times! ;-) Oasis = Status Quo = ACDC. No politics here... you like it or you don't. And sometimes I do... big deal. Keith: > we shouldn't under-estimate britpop. regardless of whether the music was any > good or not, it at least allowed the country to feel good about itself for a > short time, and it seemed to have been a long time since that had last > happened. and all that blur vs oasis might have been a load of hype, but it > was fun surely wasn't it that a lead story on the news was about who was > going to be number one! I had no problem with it. I was under the impression also smaller indiebands were profiting from the media-attention britpop caused all over the world - or am I mistaken? Giluz: > I don't consider myself as purist, but I think that Nick Cave, regardless of > meeting or not meeting with Kylie, lost his sinister, punk-influenced side > after Tender Prey (even before, but at least he still released good albums > till then), and what was left was only the kitch. Keith: > whilst what you said may be true of 'murder ballads' (which was a rather > tongue-in-cheek effort), there is absolutely nothing kitsch about 'the > boatmans call'. a more heartfelt collection of songs you'd be hard-pressed > to find. an absolute stunning album - and last yrs 'no more shall we part' > wasn't half bad either... I would have to agree with Keith here. Sure there were some kitchy elements around the time of the Good Son, but they were intentionally so [and I sometimes like my music a little decadent]. The last albums are very minimal in their approach. Of course in the 2nd half of Cave's catalogue there has grown a more sentimental side - wich I personally can appreciate. Cave's not the caveman he used to be and neither am I [if I ever was one]. Giluz: > I used to agree that if something's good it's good, regardles of when and > where it came from, but when I started looking deeper at things that I like > and didn't like I realised that the time and place do matter and that the > attitude matters most. I would define it as relatively purist, which is > nicely contradictory, I think. I can respect that! These balances are so very personal. That's what I like so very much about the piece you send from Bruce Sterling's Zeitgeist. I really enjoyed that! [off to the bookshop!] Every leave is different [Kropotkin] Bart NP Wire - Panamanium Craze [thnxalot Rick!] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:46:17 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? > I've always seen Boys & Girls as a discopopped-up I am the Fly.... ////same bass-line as "line up" :-) > > A decent selection, though I'd include End of a Century and To the Endrather > than some of the Great Escape stuff. ////i always thought he dreamed of cars / it could be you were nice comments on lottery-era UK. particularly included in a #1 album...... > > For my money Blur are at their weakest when Damon slips into third-party mode > and writes little character pieces. /////its a device pj harvey uses as well , an album like "is this desire" has loads of songs about different characters , all clearly herself. sometimes i think "say it for real" , but i suppose its just another way of putting the same thing over. i liked "dan abnormal" now i come to think of it... > > If you're talking about the 154 version, put the credit down to Mike Thorne, > who stripped away much of the guitar in favour of his keyboards. Check the > Peel version of OR for a less gripping riff - basically yer standard Colin > Pink Flag chugger. /////i like that too actually :-) though i guess the 154 version is "definitive" p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:56:20 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > << That's true. > But only the in-crowd knows this very special word. > Your German is better than my English. >> > > Ich glaube nicht.... > > But I knew you'd be impressed!! > > Mark ;-) "Nicht" means queer in dutch so in the new esperanto this would be something like: "I don't believe you, Faggot" I'll get me jumper... :-* Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:19:08 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (Off topic) Something rotten... >>> Bart - who saw von Trier's The Idiots just >>> the other week. Best film I saw whole year. >>> Incredible... small country [8 million?] >>> with such a high quality cinematic output. >>> [Festen was so good, it reminded me of italian >>> 50's/60's top cinema] Giluz: > I have to admit that I didn't really like any of the Dogma films that I've > seen (and this includes Festen), but I did like the attitude. > Though there > was nothing theoretically new about Enigma (and one's reminded of the French > New Wave as one very obvious example), they did touch the core of the > problems in the cinema of the last few years (especially Hollywood cinema) - > bad scripts and ridiculous unnecessary costs. True, and [as I said earlier, talking about Bille August] when an interesting director is lured into H'wood the result is almost allways dissapointing. > Von Trier's early films are > much better than his later ones (especially that sadistic boring musical > with Bjork). You mean pre "Europa"? That's the first von Trier I've seen. Quite differently filmed that one - stunning photography. Reminded me of Polanski's Knife in the Water. A few years agao there was also a strange sort of horror tv show called The Kingdom by him on tv. Though it didn't quite work, it had some interesting moments. I believe he wanted to make something like Twin Peaks then. I didn't like Dancer in the Dark either, nor Breaking the Waves. The melodramatic side of von Trier don't interest me, but if you haven't seen the Idiots, this is something else all together. Funny, edgy and anarchistic! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:27:28 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! In a message dated 6/6/02 1:48:47 AM Central Daylight Time, andrew@lumbard.co.uk writes: > For our American colleagues - they beat Portugal, who are pretty handy, 3-2. > I realise you're a bit preoccupied with the NBA finals, but I'd be > interested to know how well this is reported in the states;-) > On a scale of 1-10 against the NBA? > > AndyL > actually this was much bigger news here in the states...it was called the biggest win in US soccer history....edging out the 1950 win over England... ; ) RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:40:57 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] sleeves 2 da riddim >>> Record sleeves? I don't give a damn, I listen to the music. All I ask is >>> that it keeps the CD unscratched... >> >> Well, as a disciple of Factory I can't agree with you there!! >> Mark > > me neither. just off to browse through my battered roger dean 'views' ; ) > keith Heey, I used to have one of those as a teen! Where's me dartboard? I think both Blur's and Wire's record-sleeves sum up pretty good what the bands are about: Blur's stabs at society - though I didn't like the Coxon painting AT ALL! Wire's artfull minimalism - a graphic designer's delight. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:49:36 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene > Bart gets reckless... >> BTW, I bet the majority on this list have Oasis records in their >> collection, > > ...uh, how much can you afford to lose...? ;0) > > ian.s.j. Now don't tell me you never got those Oasis CDR's you ordered from me? ]:-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:55:22 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 07:46:17AM -0400, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > > I've always seen Boys & Girls as a discopopped-up I am the Fly.... > > ////same bass-line as "line up" :-) Of course, the keyboardist on Elastica's first album is one Mr. "Dan Abnormal" (ahem), which given the whole Elastica thing was deeply plagiarist might be ammo for the Bill Hicks of this list. :) > ////i always thought he dreamed of cars / it could be you were nice > comments on lottery-era UK. particularly included in a #1 album...... "He Thought of Cars" is one of my favourite songs: it was also one of the first I learnt to play. I taught myself guitar by copping most of Radiohead's "The Bends" and Blur's "The Great Escape". I have a somewhat idiosyncratic style at points as a result. :) > /////its a device pj harvey uses as well , an album like "is this >desire" has loads of songs about different characters , all clearly >herself. sometimes i think "say it for real" , but i suppose its just >another way of putting the same thing over. i liked "dan abnormal" now >i come to think of it... I see it as a way of distancing what's being written from the person writing it. I get the impression this makes it a lot easier for these lyricists to use this personal material, as it makes them feel they're giving less away... Andrew - -- "I see your autosuggestion psychology, elimination policy A military-industrial illusion of democracy..." - - Primal Scream, 'Swastika Eyes' ("Xtrmntr") adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:10:11 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Brit] Popscene Keith: > OK. Even as I write I am hanging my head in shame. I like 'Standing on the > Shoulder...'. It's OK...I can hear the tumbleweed blowing and I know what it > feels like to be the loneliest man in the world, but it's...OK...I'll be > alright. Me and my BIG mouth! :-/ Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:34:01 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lyricists >> its a device pj harvey uses as well , an album like "is this >> desire" has loads of songs about different characters , all clearly >> herself. sometimes i think "say it for real" , but i suppose its just >> another way of putting the same thing over. i liked "dan abnormal" now >> i come to think of it... > I see it as a way of distancing what's being written from the person > writing it. I get the impression this makes it a lot easier for these > lyricists to use this personal material, as it makes them feel they're > giving less away... That or perhaps they grow tired of "the-way-they-feel" songs. Most of the personal lyrics are so unbearable to me as few lyricists can handle them. Morrissey's a master of course - sometimes Lou Reed, Nick Cave, Leonard Cohen... boy, who else...? Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:16:40 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] Wire tour dates >The following dates are now confirmed for Wire's North American tour in >Spetember 2002. > >SAT 7 SAN DIEGO CA - Casbah >SUN 8 LOS ANGELES CA - El Rey Theater >TUE 10 SEATTLE WA - Showbox >FRI 13 MINNEAPOLIS MN - First Avenue >SAT 14 CHICAGO IL - Metro >WED 18 NEW YORK NY - Irving Plaza >SAT 21 ATLANTA GA - Echo Lounge > >more dates plus details of special guests to follow Stay tuned to http://www.posteverything.com and http://www.pinkflag.com for updates... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:53:40 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Pee Jay > its a device pj harvey uses as well , an album like "is this desire" has > loads of songs about different characters , all clearly herself. sometimes i > think "say it for real" , but i suppose its just another way of putting the > same thing over. i liked "dan abnormal" now i come to think of it... The song Catherine from that album is about St. Catherine who has a chapel named after her in Abbotsbury near Weymouth. I've visited the area a few times before even hearing the album. Love those coastal paths. Apparently P.J. is born in Dorset [Corsecombe?] The Chapel itself is great! Totally empty inside, allways windy on the outside and overlooking the Channel. I can imagine P.J. getting her inspiration from an allways moaning place like that. The chapel in Abbotsbury is often visited by women who are looking for husbands. There is a prayer for them to say: A husband, St Catherine A handsome one, St Catherine A rich one, St Catherine A nice one, St Catherine And... sooooon, St Catherine! Wich sums up just about every P.J. lyric nicely! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:17:44 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Wire tour dates Okay, Gil and Rick were already on top of this... :-) Thanks, guys! Hm, don't know which gig(s) I'll pick, but two of the Saturday gigs are either a cheap airfare (Chicago) or an easy drive (Atlanta), and neither require vacation days to make the trip from Nashville, so those are the most likely candidates... later, Miles At 07:16 AM 6/6/2002 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: > >The following dates are now confirmed for Wire's North American tour in > >Spetember 2002. > > > >SAT 7 SAN DIEGO CA - Casbah > >SUN 8 LOS ANGELES CA - El Rey Theater > >TUE 10 SEATTLE WA - Showbox > >FRI 13 MINNEAPOLIS MN - First Avenue > >SAT 14 CHICAGO IL - Metro > >WED 18 NEW YORK NY - Irving Plaza > >SAT 21 ATLANTA GA - Echo Lounge > > > >more dates plus details of special guests to follow > >Stay tuned to http://www.posteverything.com and http://www.pinkflag.com for >updates... > >later, > >Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:13:48 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wire tour dates In a message dated 6/6/02 10:11:40 AM Central Daylight Time, wireadmin@mindspring.com writes: << The following dates are now confirmed for Wire's North American tour in > >Spetember 2002. > > > >SAT 7 SAN DIEGO CA - Casbah > >SUN 8 LOS ANGELES CA - El Rey Theater > >TUE 10 SEATTLE WA - Showbox > >FRI 13 MINNEAPOLIS MN - First Avenue > >SAT 14 CHICAGO IL - Metro > >WED 18 NEW YORK NY - Irving Plaza > >SAT 21 ATLANTA GA - Echo Lounge >> does anyone know when tickets go on sale (especially for the Chicago date)??? RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:47:04 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wire tour dates At 11:13 AM 6/6/2002 -0400, RLynn9@aol.com wrote: >does anyone know when tickets go on sale (especially for the Chicago date)??? I have no idea. The Metro's site only goes out to August 2nd right now... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:35:49 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Nice Streets are Rhizomes Unlike Icarus, Bill is firmly rooted: The rhizome offers some hope of bringing about a kind of "liberation" from structures of power and dominance, the strata that shut down our most essential relationship to the world, desiring-production. /////////////////////// Bill, Good email and some excellent thoughts. My first reaction is the danger of pitting to (opposing) metaphors together to create a third. I am supposing this is what D+G are on about. This, in my mind doesn't reveal "difference", it only makes it more obtuse. I haven't got the book handy, but Nietzsche does a nice job of warning us about substituting the thing (i.e. the world, nature, and God) for the metaphor. The tendency is that the metaphor can kill the thing that it represents ("God is dead") "the dead metaphor" in semiotic terms. As for the other suggestions in this context. Could we maybe oppose Tim's boring mortgaged life with your own anarchic (my assumption) interesting life to produce a third condition of life and then throw the others away. It would be splendid if the third condition were my own life as it is but it's not bloody likely. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:40:51 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] US tour dates!! Arrrrrgh!!!! Is it so hard to come to Toronto???????!!!!! Minneapolis?? I mean really!! Who do I email??? Kevin? Bill? Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Santa Cruzer Sent: June 6, 2002 2:34 AM To: IdealCopy Subject: [idealcopy] US tour dates!! Yo Copying brethren~~ This just popped up on posteverything.com!!! Three of the dates have been confirmed on Pollstar as well! Here they come! Damn! I just hope I won't have to drive all the way to LA to see them! ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:10:17 -0500 From: "Michael Flaherty" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V5 #181 >From: giluz >> BTW, I bet the majority on this list have Oasis records >>in their collection, >> I know I do. > >I think it's very brave of you to admit to owning >anything by them. Well, my sentiments as well, but I would guess that at least w/ the active members of this list he's right. I mean, it was hardly a shock to learn that Keith likes Oasis. ;) It continues to be true that for most here Wire is about as far from the mainstream as they get. This still, after several years here, surprises me somewhat. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:16:58 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Raft Ants Catapult Beyond... However this music is angrier and faster and more confrontational, not to mention funnier. The media critique of Kidney Bingos is more relevant than ever... Angry ol' ShoutyBlokes, eh? The song title is Raft Ants. It might be on RnB02, then again... I think if there is overall any one old track that RnB01 recalls, it's Second Length. Now loading: Catapult 31+ Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ----- Original Message ----- From: MarkBursa@aol.com To: umur_ot@hotmail.com Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Hardcore Heart Attack The last thing you read was some kind of description of some kind of mix of some kind of track which is set to appear on Read & Burn 02. Sounds like some new verses for Kidney Bingos.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:10:08 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Spontaneous Spanners David tightened the bolts >>>Not that skill/advances in technology are bad in themselves...It's that they should be handled with the disrespect they deserve...otherwise you end up coated in that " kiss of death" -pride in your own proficiency - so self conscious of every move that your knowledge becomes a hindrance rather than a useful tool to be used The Onion asked Bruce if proficiency is the enemy of spontaneity. BG: I think it depends, really. Some people would argue that proficiency allows more spontaneity. I think it depends on what your original approach to these things is, really. There are what I would call 'proper' musicians for whom spontaneity is of no interest, and proficiency is all. Graham also spoke to the Onion (this is not a Dome installation) Does it help or hinder the composition process to be proficient? GL: I don't know if I'm equipped to answer that question. [laughs.] Let's put it this way: virtuosity has never been a problem, because it's never been attained. [laughs.] I think it's conducive to a certain kind of work, yeah, but for us being musicians... We've had to be musicians in order to create, or recreate, the ideas we had. It's not the number-one thing, but you have to acquire skills in order to realise the idea. That way around, rather than, 'wow, I have this incredible technique; now what am I going to do? I think you write songs with these things...' That's not really the way we see it. http://www.wireviews.com/wireviews/articles/interviews/bruce_graham_onion_00. html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:11:03 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Chanting a Curse whilst Hanging on Furniture - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Chanting a Curse whilst Religiously Spitting! > I've been on Holiday folks! > So allow me to backtrack to the heady days of saturday before last.. > > "Bill Hick" wrote: > > > >Vicar's son spat out blood of Christ > > > a.) What does my Fathers occupation have to do with this? > You brought up the silly idea of killing your family. You didn't do the deed then? > b.) It was white wine actually. Jesus did not turn water into Chardonnay. > He turned vitamin pills into amphetamines and Sugar into cocaine He walked on the water and Swam on the land Later St Paul cavorted to Christianity! Away in a Garage: GAR: Recently there has been some disagreement over the lyrics to A Serious of Snakes. I always thought it was "I'd rather make furniture than go to midnight mass!" but some people are insisting it's "make fun at yer." EGL: It's so bloody obvious! What-did-Jesus-DO? CN1: Joseph! Joseph was the carpenter! EGL: Oh yeah, Jesus was the one that HUNG on the furniture. GAR: I bet he got up to some carpentry as well. EGL: He helped his dad didn't he? If he was a good boy! BCG: If he was a real person. EGL: If he was a real person. Or he could've been trying to make furniture when he got the nails through his hands. CN1 (with an incredulous jovial sneer): "I'd rather make fun at yer?!?" It's like when we played America the first time people thought Sand In My Joints was 'Send Him My Joints.' NP Faust - Freispiel remixes (www.freispiel.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:39:16 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Punx No Ded Dad (Goal!!!!!) /////////i was listening to the cricket last week and apparently a bowler for leicestershire has a pretty impressive mohican. now that i'd like to see..........p An entire race hunted to the point of coiffurism. Yet so many people seem to think punk is dead? Of course you'd need smellyvision for the ol' hippies to detect punx... no hiding behind mini-monoriffs and coppiced mix treats. Kicker: Is the world cup a glossy bell before it is struck? Faux-Nationalism 0 Elgaland-Vargaland 17 (figuratively speaking) Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine Another Entry from the MES dictionary: "Corporate-u-lent" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:46:04 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Everything's Going to be Nice (Beuys Harvests Tulips) They thought it was all over, but tulips sprouted on the pitch in a vivid riot of red... Bart Guided Voices >>>if you don't know GBV go and listen to them people! This URL might be helpful... www.gbv.com > Tie him to an inflatable jet. > It's so obvious >>>Isn't that the new Robert Pollard cd? Loved to be tied to that one! Not in my airforce! It was a reference to the two men tethered to an inflatable jet and led around the stage by Angela Conway at Wire's Document & Eyewitness performance of Everything's Going to be Nice. Fell off the chair laughing when I read this in Kevin's History: Bruce: Robert mentioned he had an inflatable jet plane. It seemed obvious to me that these two men should be tethered together with the jet, and a woman dragging them around. > Except for being disappointed by RnB01? >>>Relatively dissapointed yes, but that is no problem at all. Heresy, Bill? More like hearsay. >>>"Why not look at this as retro too?" But I guess we covered that... Not very well... Say again? Wire seem to be turning things upside down in the way they're currently approaching composition. Some tracks have been composed on the hardrive which is the opposite to how a rock band would normally approach things! It's akin to remixing a track without having an original mix to refer to. The tracks on RnB01, and for that matter those on Bastard and It-ness, make a mockery of the notion that there is any clear dividing line between techno/dance and rock/pop and experimentation (if there ever was?). In the end it's all about having fun experimenting... The results have been a lot of fun to listen to. >>>"Insightful enough!" They seem to be the keywords in this whole argument. You have a few Wire-facts on me and therefor I must shut up and be in awe of an allknowing master. Isn't this the case, Bill? It seems that Kevin, Craig, Charles and Andrew made a lot of effort to get a lot of Wire information online. Not that everyone on Ideal Copy need become a student of Wireology, but it wouldn't hurt just to spend a little more time finding out about something that interests you at www.wireviews.com If I was an all knowing master, there would be no point in interviewing Wire. >>>[Lub]bart [of to remove some tulips] Only figuratively? That subject header was left open to interpretation. I could've been referring to myself or the Lubert Das in the song or the painting.... Another Tulip to cut? >>>Wire's approach to me seems more elusive, multi-levelled and allways changing. [OR must be a Graham-lyric here judging from the numerical idea - true?] On Returning is credited to only (Newman) on the 154 sleeve. You do have that surely? It helps to look at these things before you post queries! > ShoutyBloke Alec Empire hit the nail when he said > "We all die!" >>>Another crybaby! I always found that track really funny. Morrissey & Thom Yorke seem much more like 'crybabies' to me... >>>Now there's one with insight! "When you reach your peak it's time to die." He hasn't followed his own advice though. [shoutybloke seems to be the word of the week] Did you miss Colin's radio show? It was a blast! Peel played Comet last night. "It's a heaven sent extinction event" >>>People allways have been pregnant with thoughts of Armageddon [Strummeragain?]. "Coming this way with your name on it" However over the last half century more and more unsavoury characters have had at their fingertips the practical means to bring it on. There is also a lot of ominous apocalyptic noise & imagery in Wire recordings.... Reuters Over Theirs The First Letter The Agfas of Kodak Mercy Indirect Enquiries Marooned Men 2nd >>>Merely a reflection of our personal mortality. A reflection, but not merely! It is certainly interesting when art reflects such things (more so than lager louts and liggers) and is often an excuse for a good bit of noise, if any is needed. Cut to last night at the Garage roughly 2 years ago... Sing to an Andrew Lloyd Webber tune, "Don't cry for me Bruce and Graham!" GAR: The lyrics of Mercy are phenomenal and that's from a dream isn't it? EGL: Yes, and very little changed from the dream. GAR: I think one of the key words that really sets the scene in that song is 'refugees'. I think a lot of the songs that you've written form themed sequences. The feeling of war torn desolation in Mercy kind of relates back to Reuters and Pink Flag and then later The First Letter picks up a similar thread. EGL: The other ones you mention are all texts that I've written and inevitably it goes back to private obsessions really. Perhaps I once wanted to be a war correspondent. BCG: I think it's also the leakage from what's actually happening in the world. The uncertainty of nation states. Everything's up in the air! EGL: Everything's up in the air. It's the bloodiest century that's ever been. More wars - there's been a phenomenal number since the second world war. How many are going on at the moment? These things are relevant. Cut forward GAR: Do you feel it's inevitable that us human beings will be wiped out? EGL: I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime, but who knows? What happened to the dinosaurs? And they were around for an awful long time! GAR: Maybe by then we'll have changed into something else. BCG: "Give me the button!" is what I say! EGL: As Joseph Beuys said, "The greatest thing in the world is the atom bomb. This is he greatest piece of work! Give everybody one! I want one in my bathroom! Do not be frightened of this thing. Be frightened of the man who has it!" Who are the fuckers with the buttons? There are some pretty dodgy characters out there. GAR: Crazy bastards who have to spend their whole life pursuing that goal. EGL: Power. GAR: To spend their lives chasing power they must be insane. EGL: It tends to go towards that. And that's exactly what Joseph Beuys was saying: change yourself. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #183 *******************************