From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #179 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, June 4 2002 Volume 05 : Number 179 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] SKIDOO IN DA LOOE ["DAVID HEALE" ] AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! [Woerner Frank ] Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Dowie ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] Oxxxes in the Brochure ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? ["Bill Hi] [idealcopy] Fwd: [Shriek_Digicon] RE: OT/Alabama 3 info [Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] SKIDOO IN DA LOOE hello Keith...I HAVE been meaning to message you for a couple of days.... but been hectic down here....skidoo ARRIVED SAFE on Saturday.. yes not bad... but somehow the impact, back in 82/83 was it.. hit you between the eyes. I have this issue with so much music..."when the rough edges are smoothed down by extra -facility/ skill and more available technology - something essential is lost" Not that skill/advances in technology are bad in themselves...It's that they should be handled with the disrespect they deserve...otherwise you end up coated in that " kiss of death" -pride in your own proficiency - so self conscious of every move that your knowledge becomes a hindrance rather than a useful tool to be used -" too carve something original". LETS MAKE A STAND FOR ALL THOSE WELL INFORMED AMATEURS!!!! It's probably why I have got so much time for me.e.smith; old reactionary curmudgeon that he is... this approach at least lends itself to keeping that " spark" intact. Sometimes at the cost of fulling on yr bum... but shouldn't the attempt be made! ok- that's my rave for the day. cheers David in Cornwall..(more spanners in more works- it's the only way) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:00:35 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Bart van Damme [mailto:bartvandamme@home.nl] > Gesendet: Samstag, 1. Juni 2002 14:07 > An: wire-news > Betreff: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > > > > > Senegal rules! Wouldn't it be great is by some twist of fate > they should > make it to the finals? [bit like Denmark become European > champion in '92] But only with cheatin' and a blind referee! > But against who should they play I wonder? > > As long as it isn't Germany again... [the horror the horror] Ahem! Did you know that there is a song rather high in our charts about Holland not participating in the championship? FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:14:03 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > Did you know that there is a song rather high in our charts > about Holland not participating in the championship? > > FrankfromBavaria care to share any lyrics with us, frank? (don't look bart!) keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:33:04 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! >> As long as it isn't Germany again... [the horror the horror] > > Ahem! > Did you know that there is a song rather high in our charts > about Holland not participating in the championship? > > FrankfromBavaria *Boooohooooo* :-( But I guess I deserved that! Bloody krauts though! ;o) Bart [remembering the '74 finals, whole family in tears] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:42:46 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.astbury10@virgin.net] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Juni 2002 14:14 > An: Woerner Frank; 'Bart van Damme'; wire-news > Betreff: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > > > > Did you know that there is a song rather high in our charts > > about Holland not participating in the championship? > > > > FrankfromBavaria > > care to share any lyrics with us, frank? > > (don't look bart!) > > keith I do know of two songs: title "ohne holland fahrn wir zur wm" from helmut aus mallorca feat. jojo and "holland auf wiedersehn" from a bloke who took part in a tv show named "big brother" made by endemol productions (they are dutch). Both songs are -of course- absolute shit and not worth to be mentioned on the ideal copy list at all. The fact of Holland not taking part was a running gag for several weeks on several german tv shows recently. the dutch team is "hated" because of rijkard (spelling?) spitting on rudi vvllers hair and koeman wiping his ass with a german team jersey. So, whatever the german team may achieve down there is not as important as the fact that Halland is N_O_T taking part (so thinks a part of our people). regards, FrankfromBavaria ohne holland fahrn wir zur wm = we drive to the wc without holland holland auf wiedersehn = holland goodbye ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:53:11 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] queens jubillee concert (brian wilson on the telly!) Just for the record, before I go any further, can I just say that I didn't PLAN watching this, even if there were a couple of people I was interested in seeing... But, anyway, amidst all the dross (half of Queen - the group, not just Elizabeth's torso - with will young, etc), there were two bits I thought I'd mention here... First was Ozzie Osborne. I'm not a big fan of Ozzie's post-Sabb music, but the prospect of him playing a gig in the grounds of Buckingham Palace did amuse me, I must admit. He wandered onto the stage whilst he was still being introduced, wearing a long black cape and that permanently fixed bewildered expression he's made his own. with Tony Iommi on gtr (and god forbid, Phil Collins on drums), he launched into 'Paranoid' and stomped around the stage with a 'what am I doing here?' look, and then, arms round Iommi, milked the applause for all it was worth. At this point the camera panned across to the royals and you could see prince Charlie's two kids laughing and actually looking like they were enjoying themselves instead of wearing the usual royal smile. And then, shortly afterwards, the one bit I'd been REALLY interested in seeing. Ruby Wax intoduced the and only, god-like, etc Mr Brian Wilson - and it all got chaotic. 'No he's not ready' she said. Brian Wilson started talking. 'Brian Wilson's not ready' she repeated. Brian, meanwhile, is still talking in that Wilson mumble, something about 'her majesty' he said, under Waxes voice. Wax shut up just in time for a rather lost looking Brian to say something like 'this one's for...(pause)...Queen'. Not THE Queen, just 'Queen'. Anyway, a still rather lost looking BW played 'California Girls', though he did loosen up as it went on. He was then joined by - and this is sacrilege in my book - Eric Clapton, who had obviously escaped from the Astbury bin when I kicked it across the room the other day. They played a near shambolic 'Warmth of the Sun'. Eric added some harmless vocals and that distinctive Clapton yelping gtr sound, that some people would describe as 'tasteful' - but that's 'tasteful' in a strychnine sense of the word. Finally, Brian Wilson played what is perhaps the greatest ever song IMO 'God Only Knows' - joined on stage by, wait for it, the Corrs! However, this wasn't as bad as it sounded. Andria's vocs were reasonably well suited to it, and after having Clapton up there, the Corrs seemed some great pop saviours! Funny isn't it, how just seeing some mad old bloke with a border-line ropey voice, sitting behind a keyboard, can bring such happiness into some of our lives! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:01:17 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > the dutch team is "hated" because of rijkard (spelling?) spitting on rudi > vvllers hair to be fair though, it did need SOMETHING doing with it... keith np freeheat - retox e.p. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:09:42 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.astbury10@virgin.net] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Juni 2002 15:01 > An: Woerner Frank; 'Bart van Damme'; wire-news > Betreff: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > > > > the dutch team is "hated" because of rijkard (spelling?) > spitting on rudi > > vvllers hair > > to be fair though, it did need SOMETHING doing with it... LOL !! his nickname "tante kdthe" (aunt cathy) is based on his hair. he seems to be one of the last remaining "vokuhilas" which means - - vorne kurz hinten lang - (front short back long) hairstyle. this was the favourite hairstyle for most soccer players during the nineties. I think they call it mullet in your country ...??? I remember a picture with Lewis having such a hairstyle. Most musicians had it in the eighties ... seems musicians are always a decade ahead of soccer players ... as far as fashion is concerned. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 15:16:31 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > I do know of two songs: > > title "ohne holland fahrn wir zur wm" from helmut aus mallorca feat. jojo > and "holland auf wiedersehn" from a bloke who took part in a tv show > named "big brother" made by endemol productions (they are dutch). Why isn't this broadcasted on dutch telly? :-) > Both songs are -of course- absolute shit and not worth to be mentioned > on the ideal copy list at all. O, YES THEY ARE!! ;-) > The fact of Holland not taking part was a running gag for several weeks > on several german tv shows recently. As it should be! The dutch team doesn't deserve any better! Their fat millionair arses should be kicked sooooo bad! > the dutch team is "hated" because of rijkard (spelling?) spitting on rudi > vvllers hair and koeman wiping his ass with a german team jersey. Yeaaaah, when was this? '88 or something? In Holland Rijkaard and Koeman were both applauded and despised for their actions [wich you could call quite punk]. Did you know Frank "I-was-only-gelling-his-hair" Rijkaard, for a [coloured] footballplayer, has quite a taste in music. I remember him speaking fondly of bands like the Pixies and Breeders. > So, whatever the german team may achieve down there is not as important > as the fact that Halland is N_O_T taking part (so thinks a part of > our people). Hehehe... great! These little animosities should be charished as part of our mutual cultural heritage and therefor be heavily subsidized by the European Union. > regards, > FrankfromBavaria > > ohne holland fahrn wir zur wm = we drive to the wc without holland > holland auf wiedersehn = holland goodbye I think Holland should feel honoured with attention such as this! Especially that bit about driving to the wc, wich is a stab at Koeman's action I presume. ;-) Cheers, Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 15:24:58 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! >> the dutch team is "hated" because of rijkard (spelling?) spitting on rudi >> vvllers hair > > to be fair though, it did need SOMETHING doing with it... > > keith > It still does... and HEY, Rijkaard used to be a sensitive barber before he started his football career so... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 15:28:18 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! >> to be fair though, it did need SOMETHING doing with it... > > LOL !! > > his nickname "tante kdthe" (aunt cathy) is based on his hair. > he seems to be one of the last remaining "vokuhilas" which means > - vorne kurz hinten lang - (front short back long) hairstyle. > this was the favourite hairstyle for most soccer players during > the nineties. I think they call it mullet in your country ...??? In Holland's it's called a "matje" [a lttle rug] > I remember a picture with Lewis having such a hairstyle. > Most musicians had it in the eighties ... seems musicians > are always a decade ahead of soccer players ... as far as > fashion is concerned. Xcept perhaps for Beckham that is... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:48:24 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the world cup is finally here << not that it matters - and i'm probably wrong anyway mark - but wasn't it the '77 series of 'so it goes' that dowie did this on? i just seem to associate it with tony wilsons smug expression... >> Now you mention it I think he performed it on both So it goes and Revolver.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:06:31 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] more throaty mingy shouty blokies << *How does 'In The Art of Stopping' relate to the Pink Flag album? >> If AoS nods to any Wire song it's Our Swimmer. (the stops, the keyboard swells in the little breaks). One's about stopping, one's about not moving. Go figure... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:29:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! << his nickname "tante kdthe" (aunt cathy) is based on his hair. he seems to be one of the last remaining "vokuhilas" which means - vorne kurz hinten lang - (front short back long) hairstyle. this was the favourite hairstyle for most soccer players during the nineties. I think they call it mullet in your country ...???<< Doesn't Voller count as a Vokuhilaoliba? (on account of his tache?) Mak ;-) I remember a picture with Lewis having such a hairstyle. Most musicians had it in the eighties ... seems musicians are always a decade ahead of soccer players ... as far as fashion is concerned. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:38:04 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! > >> the dutch team is "hated" because of rijkard (spelling?) spitting on rudi > >> vvllers hair > > > > to be fair though, it did need SOMETHING doing with it... > > > > keith > > > > > It still does... and HEY, Rijkaard used to be a sensitive barber > before he started his football career so... > > Bart maybe he can go back to it now. read the other day that's he left his managerial post... as for footballers 'mullets'...the one person to equal voller's hairdo IMHO, was the monstrosity that the now 'respectable' looking footie pundit barry venison sported (sprouted?) at around the turn of the 90's. bordered on comic genius ; ) keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:41:28 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! Keith, > as for footballers 'mullets'...the one person to equal voller's hairdo IMHO, > was the monstrosity that the now 'respectable' looking footie pundit barry > venison sported (sprouted?) at around the turn of the 90's. bordered on > comic genius ; ) > The king of all football mullets has to be Chris Waddle's cropped-on-top, crimped-at-the-back special from about 1989. He sported a more conventional version during the 1990 World Cup, but controversially shaved the back off before the semi-final. Result - Waddle missed a penalty and England lost. Never underestimate the Power of Mullet. Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 16:56:41 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup / Voller's Spit-Tache > Doesn't Voller count as a Vokuhilaoliba? > (on account of his tache?) > Mak ;-) Ok ok... but I draw the line HERE! We're NOT going further down! I won't have it, you hear? I won't! ;o) Bart [thinking about skipping dinner now] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 16:59:02 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] more throaty mingy shouty blokies > << *How does 'In The Art of Stopping' relate to the Pink Flag album? >> > > If AoS nods to any Wire song it's Our Swimmer. (the stops, the keyboard > swells in the little breaks). One's about stopping, one's about not moving. > Go figure... > > Mark Hmmm, interesting... I'll go and play it right away. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:15:06 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! >> It still does... and HEY, Rijkaard used to be a sensitive barber >> before he started his football career so... >> Bart > > maybe he can go back to it now. read the other day that's he left his > managerial post... Yes, I read he left Sparta just the other day. Sparta was degrading to a another league. Still a [s]pitty he left the dutch team as a coach. > as for footballers 'mullets'...the one person to equal voller's hairdo IMHO, > was the monstrosity that the now 'respectable' looking footie pundit barry > venison sported (sprouted?) at around the turn of the 90's. bordered on > comic genius ; ) > keith What a litlle googling can't do... it's all there folks, the horrors - the filth - the MULLETS: http://www.geocities.com/boothjan2001/mullets_football.html Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:42:32 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the world cup is finally here In a message dated 04/06/02 14:48:54 GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > << not that it matters - and i'm probably wrong anyway mark - but wasn't it > the > '77 series of 'so it goes' that dowie did this on? i just seem to associate > it with tony wilsons smug expression... >> > > Now you mention it I think he performed it on both So it goes and > Revolver.... > > Mark > /////i never lived in the right place to see so it goes , but VH1 re-ran some revolvers last year and it was definitely on that. saw a "read and burn" in HMV this afternoon , wire for the masses at last , eh :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:10:32 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the world cup is finally here On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 11:42:32AM -0400, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > saw a "read and burn" in HMV this afternoon , wire for the masses at last , > eh :-) p I got mine from HMV in Cambridge. *shrug* I was too busy with exams to go through getting it from PostEverything... - -- "Now, you can't change the way she feels, But you could put your arms around her..." - Massive Attack, "Protection" ('Protection') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 18:13:27 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mystery Lyric Liked your examples Andrew! Where Blur were masters in satire, Wire are in art. Wire's approach to me seems more elusive, multi-levelled and allways changing. [OR must be a Graham-lyric here judging from the numerical idea - true?] Except for the fact that I both like 'em a lot and I think they both master their modus operandi fabulously, my perception is that the two bands operate on quite different levels. I'm curious what other similarities you have noticed between Wire & Blur Andrew... Popscene was Blur's first song that really did something for me. Funny how from then on every album seem to have a sort of song like it [Bank Holiday?] on them wich I all liked very much. Even Gorillaz has it "Punk"! Pavement's Serpentine Pad [Wowee Zowee] too has a bit of that irresitable kiddie-punk - talking about wich, why do I never hear something about Bis? Bart > I think Blur are responsible for some pretty good lyrics, actually: > > "Nothing is wasted > Only reproduced > You get nasty blisters > Du bist sehr sch\:on, > But we haven't been introduced ...", from "Girls and Boys" > > is a pretty good rendering of the same territory covered by Wire in "On > Returning": > > "You'll be sorry when the sun has roasted you to > Lobster red, nothing said > When yellow has turned green to brown, divide by four > Multiply by nine, describe your divisions, anatomical derision" > > - which may be more self-consciously clever, but is (if anything) I > think a less effective evocation of the desperation of the lager-lout on > holiday who Blur are sending up. > > Blur are strange in that they clearly mean *something* by what they say, > but they're so vehemently sarcastic and (I suspect) private that they > refuse to play the obvious line. They can't help but sabotage and > subvert their *own* work - anyone who's heard the intro to their stage > shows on "Live at the Budokan", or the Great Lost Single "Popscene", can > hardly doubt this. > > I see a lot of similarities between Blur and Wire, actually. > > Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:02:12 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! speaking of hairstyles...David Beckham's conservative mowhawk is rather stupid...if yer gonna have one have one..don't make it this little gelled up thingy that you can comb down whenever you like... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:52:11 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Dowie - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury > > British Tourist was his best-known song - remember him doing it on > Revolver > > once. > > not that it matters - and i'm probably wrong anyway mark - but wasn't it the > '77 series of 'so it goes' that dowie did this on? i just seem to associate > it with tony wilsons smug expression... > > keith It was definitely on Revolver, first ever edition I think ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:07:53 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Oxxxes in the Brochure - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury Excerpt from the Queen Mum's Book of Remembrance: > > "How refreshing to be able to mourn the death of a member of the Royal > family > > without being accused of being homosexual". > > J. Fletcher, High Wycombe. > > Apparently the condolence book at a museum in New Zealand got mixed up with the visitors book. At least that's how they explain "I like the glow worms" found amidst all the "God bless you ma'am" drivvel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:39:40 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] I Don't Understand the Lyrics! Mark Burs'd forth Lyrically >>>Sometimes the words are provided by Bruce (eg two people in a room, too late) and sometimes by Colin (eg the 15th). Bruce's tend to be pretty direct, quite personal. Colin's tend to be simple and abstract. Graham's tend to be obtuse but obviously the work of a writer. Sometimes the lyrics are collaborations by all three eg. Other Moments, I Don't Understand, Eardrum Buzz Especially in the Mute era two band members would sometimes edit, hone and rewrite a lyric begun by another. It's all in Kevin's book (which is now unfortunately OOP). There's some discussion of lyric writing on the Wire Cracked Machine Garage interview. It's also at http://www.wireviews.com/wireviews/articles/interviews/wire_gr_00.html This isn't: Germ Ship & Agfers - lyrics by Lewis 1st Fast - lyrics by Newman NP Wire - Nice Streets (be kind, rewind, it's the drone) Nice Pizza Nice Pizza Yum Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:13:37 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] On a Mission to Never Agree Mark binned fucked up situation >>>Fugazi seem to offer nothing particularly original, but shout a lot. Who do they sound like to you? Closest comparison is Rites of Spring who shared 2 band members. Probably a bit of early Gang of 4 and Killing Joke in there, along with dub. Minor Threat covered 12XU long before every other fucker did. Some Fugazi songs have no shouting at all. Some have no singing either. They sound quite original and inventive to me. Here Comes the Argument? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/zero21.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:16:47 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Hardcore Heart Attack Newman strums Nyow nyow nyow nee nee na nyow nyow Gilbert juxtaposes a quick dugga dugga Drums come in fast in classic all to the floor HC mode Heart Attack White Bread In Bed Inbred Rock'n'roll (Slowed down ambient drone telescopes) Coca Cola Motorolla Monkey Moon Looney Tunes Lawnmower Flame Thrower Watch Out Whistle Blower Slash and Burn The last thing you read was some kind of description of some kind of mix of some kind of track which is set to appear on Read & Burn 02. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:32:54 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Lager Louts' Third Language tucked into Briefcases? Andrew walked sure >>>I think Blur are responsible for some pretty good lyrics, actually: "Nothing is wasted Only reproduced You get nasty blisters Du bist sehr sch\:on, But we haven't been introduced ...", from "Girls and Boys" Terribly twee! Nothing is renewed Only plagiarised You're pissed up in the sun So NME calls it news >>>is a pretty good rendering of the same territory covered by Wire in "On Returning": "You'll be sorry when the sun has roasted you to Lobster red, nothing said When yellow has turned green to brown, divide by four Multiply by nine, describe your divisions, anatomical derision Great poetry! - - - which may be more self-consciously clever, You say the territory was already covered, but Contradiction will arise with every step and turn The blur lyric seems more self conscious but much less clever and with far less room for multiple interpretations. However the first two lines could be read as an inadvertant confession of their own plagiarism. >>>but is (if anything) I think a less effective evocation of the desperation of the lager-lout on holiday who Blur are sending up. But no! The Wire lyric was written by Colin about going on holiday himself - do lager louts carry a copy of the Nouvelle Observature? Colin was maybe in part sending himself up whereas Blur just seem to be pointing fingers again like little playschool bitches, as in their ineffectual put down of the man who they found charmless. At least if Mark Smith has a grouse the mirth is encouraged and let loose (armpit hairs are sprouting). Kevin reported in the good book: "Colin: Annette and I had gone on holiday in France with a couple of friends of ours. They'd been married for quite a long time and argued quite a lot. It was the first time I'd really spent some time out of Britain, and it was a reflection on how British people somehow seem uncomfortable about being abroad; an attempted internationalism which I felt was strange at the time." Colin also seems to be distancing himself from the attitude reflected in this lyric. The similarities seem to be only surface ones. >>>Blur are strange Blur are mundane whingers "Sons and daughter who registered nought" Have they ever come up with anything a fraction as gripping as the new angled riff that opens 'On Returning'? - not on the songs I've been exposed to! >>>in that they clearly mean *something* by what they say, It doesn't seem very interesting though However Mark did have a point - we'd never get this mileage out of Oasis lyrics! >>>but they're so vehemently sarcastic and (I suspect) private that they refuse to play the obvious line. That list of influences was very obvious though... "Never lacked a sense of theatre" Now we're almost getting somewhere >>>They can't help but sabotage and subvert their *own* work - anyone who's heard the intro to their stage shows on "Live at the Budokan", or the Great Lost Single "Popscene", can hardly doubt this. How do they subvert and sabotage their own work? >>>I see a lot of similarities between Blur and Wire, actually. Not surprising when the former finally admit to ripping off the latter. Most of these similarities seem to be a slight veneer. There are far more radical differences. It seems that Blur often play up for the critics whereas Wire just do what they please. Bruce spoke to the Onion "We've never really satisfied any audience; we've always satisfied ourselves. I don't think we've ever considered the audience at all, so that crossover situation has something to do with the internal creativity of the group and nothing to do with the audiences. It's not something we've ever thought about." http://www.wireviews.com/wireviews/articles/interviews/bruce_graham_onion_00. html Wire have some great record sleeves, whereas Blur's sleeve art has an ugly dull bland corporate ad look. Wire are often possessed by genius. Wire ended up having an evening of fun in the metropolis of their dreams... Where did Blurb end up? Up the arse of eNMEy? Onion: There are bands that shouldn't continue to make music... GL: I don't think we have enough time to name all of them! (but watch Ideal Copy try) NP mystery Flux Information Sciences track segued into somekindmix new HC Wire track Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:51:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: [Shriek_Digicon] RE: OT/Alabama 3 info - --- Scott wrote: > To: Shriek_Digicon@yahoogroups.com > From: Scott > Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:29:50 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: [Shriek_Digicon] RE: OT/Alabama 3 info > Reply-to: Shriek_Digicon@yahoogroups.com > > > Alabama State Penitentiary No3 > Tuesday June 4 2002 > --------------------------------- > > > News Bulletin > > NEW INFORMATION FOR THE PEOPLE. > Lots of things about to happen folks so listen up. > This Saturday we are playing the Fleadh in Londons > Finsbury Park just after The Dubliners. A String of > dates are about to happen, check out the events > here. Also the new album is due out in September and > some of the tracks nearly completed so far > include,"Missing In Action / Cagebird / Flag / > Rehabilitated / Yellow Rose Of Texas / Bulletproof", > all mixed up and mashed up by the beautiful Lexxy > Love. > Yesterday we did a Memphis 9 gig down at The Foundry > in Old St, with Rantin Richie and Larry and B on > vocals and the DV ANT TECHNO crew from Brixton > twisting up the sound with slices of Basement Jaxx > etc. > Last Friday we had a brilliant 3 page article in The > Independant which we will put up on the site soon. > Rock Free Base has been out and about doing a few > studio things and the odd gig with his outfit ME AND > THE DEVIL which is sounding good. > Our originol photographer Andy O Connell has > recently been out to Greenland and Los Angeles doing > photo shoots for BJORK and her band.If anyones > intersted in seeing his work,get in touch as he's > having some exhibitions coming up and it's great > stuff. > Rantin Richie the poet from the Alabamas is > currently putting together a 4 track CD To big up > himself and is doing a once a month showcase at The > Dogstar in Brixton should you wanna check him out. > An extensive tour should happen in October on the > back of the album. > Lexxy our producer has been getting down with the > Alabama vibe outside the studio, the other night we > absolutely caned it in the locale and ended up in a > warehouse party dancing to old Punk Rock tunes at 12 > the next day, some guy, and his skills in the studio > are gonna make this the best album yet. > There are rumours that MICK JONES ex Clash man is > gonna do some A3 remixes,Nice. > Listen people sorry we've been a bit lax on the > updates but we will be on it from now on,so tune in > brothers and sisters and a big love going out to you > sat right there. > .... > > > > Best Regards > > > Governor in Charge > > > Alabama State Penitentiary No3, Brixton > > > > > "It's a rare man who won't tamper with perfection." > - Carl Marsh > "The only way to rid yourself of temptation is to > give in to it." - Anonymous > ViSiT mE aT :::::: http://atlringz.tripod.com > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:06:17 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! In a message dated 04/06/02 18:03:03 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > speaking of hairstyles...David Beckham's conservative mowhawk is rather > stupid...if yer gonna have one have one..don't make it this little gelled > up > thingy that you can comb down whenever you like... > > RL /////////i was listening to the cricket last week and apparently a bowler for leicestershire has a pretty impressive mohican. now that i'd like to see..........p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:08:19 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mystery Lyric In a message dated 04/06/02 17:13:51 GMT Daylight Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > Popscene was Blur's first song that really did something for me //////generally credited as the birth of britpop. though blaming damon for oasis seems a bit cruel really. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:13:08 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (Off topic) Something rotten... - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Oh well, look where it got them, narrowly escaping having to put up with > le gros fumier Le Pen as president. Go ahead then, send in the Marines > ;) > Nik > >> > yeah...sure, whatever you say.....HURRAH SENEGAL !!!!! GO URUGUAY! GO > DENMARK! oust the French! What was a narrow escape for the French (although let's face it, Le Pen was heavily beaten) is in some respects reality in Denmark. This is a country where, as I understand it, it's forbidden for those under 24 to marry anybody who originates outside of the European Union. Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:03:43 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! In a message dated 04/06/2002 15:42:06 GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > The king of all football mullets has to be Chris Waddle's cropped-on-top, > crimped-at-the-back special from about 1989. He sported a more conventional > > version during the 1990 World Cup, but controversially shaved the back off > before the semi-final. > Kevin Keegan was ahead of his time in this department.(Sorry for the pun). Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:02:18 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the World Cup is finally here! In a message dated 04/06/2002 15:31:56 GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > as for footballers 'mullets'...the one person to equal voller's hairdo IMHO, > was the monstrosity that the now 'respectable' looking footie pundit barry > venison sported (sprouted?) at around the turn of the 90's. bordered on > comic genius ; ) > Don't forget Barry's fashion sense too Keith. Hilarious jackets & shirts. Chris NP.U-ZiQ -Tango N' Vectif ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:10:39 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] OT OT OT(Here it is again) Blur=Shite OTOTOT Bart said a whole lot of nothing much again Unfortunately for the cheery boredom levels of most, I had enough time to reply... No useful Wire content follows, until later when suddenly a recent quote from Lewis appears. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart van Damme To: Bill Hick Cc: wire-news Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Tali[hoo]Bill > Funny how every time a read your angry-young-man-act mails I'm hearing it > with the voice of Young One Richie. [you should try it folks - it's real > fun] > There wasn't a Young One called Richie. You can't get anything right can you? Tacky Rick bitch? Comparison to comic genius? For the record, I've never tried to grow n underpant garden. > The main issue of our previous mail was my bit of criticism with R&B [and > the fact you seem to agree in the first place - hence your question to > Colin]. Nothing about that in your reply here. > That's because you're getting confused with your other mail, which I also replied to. > So we go on bitching about Blur a bit more... o well, if you're not tired > of it, here we go: > > > > The aphorism "Blur=Shite" became self evident: > > This is your idea of aphorisms? Hilarious! > Its only one actually, there are many others. An aphorism is a short pithy maxim. > >> "He knows the swingers and their cavalry > >> Says he can get in anywhere for free > >> I began to go a little cross-eyed > >> And from this charmless man I just had to hide" > > > >> [Blur - Charmless Man] > > > > Is nth rate Morrissey plagiarism the best those Britpappy bores could do? > > Communist headbangers! Morrissey in reverse! > > This is your idea of plagiarism? Hilarious! > > I suspect this song title would not exist had they never heard This Charming Man. Morrissey's cheque unposted. They can pay him off with reggae rarities and Asian bellbottoms. Plagiarsm is taking the thoughts, writings or invention of another as one's own. But really that lyric is just twee bitchy shite. > > Could prozac help their cross eyed afflictions? > > I played the prozac-card already - entertain me! > > OK, feed them cyanide. > > Maybe the root of their problem is that charmless men feed their horses, but > > they are too gormless to realise it. > > Hey, that ain't half bad! Can I quote that? > Quote whatever you like. But no plagiarism if money is an issue! > > Con men (attempt to) charm people... > > > > In footy speak: an own goal! > > > > (Try another one, that was pure slapstic!) > > > > Start spreading the Wire News! > > Blur have nothing to say > > Start spreading the Wire News! > > They still Blurble away > > Not bad at all! Actually I thought it was pathetic. Sing it in the voice of Neil the dopey hippy to the tune of Frank Sinatra if thats the way you get your kicks. >better than "Blur=Shite" x 20 > You may follow in mr. Mayall's footsteps yet as a true people's poet! > ["hands up who like me"] > > Blur=Shite was a Mogwai rip off. They said it first or at least most famously, I was just plagiarising Seems a bit moronic to ask everyone to put their hands up as no one will see via internet. We'd be here all day if everyone on the list sent messages saying 'I liked that' every time something they liked was written. > >>> I doubt it meets my criteria for 'rocking'!!!! > >>> But I will bow to yr superior couch potatism here and say that yes of > > course > >>> just being able to 'rock' isn't necessarily enough!!!!!!!!! It helps > > just a > >>> little if the band can subvert the rock (Blur seemed incapable of this, > > if you > >>> disagree please name specific tracks! Describe the way they set it on > > fire! > >>> Where was their soul at? Did they burn with more than the refracted > > pizzlings > >>> of their cursed record collection?) > >> > >> I feel no particular reason to describe ANYthing to meet your personal > >> criteria, I'm quite happy using my own [wich I've tried to air in previous > >> mails] > >> > >> > > You didn't understand. > > Yet I feel no need to explain! > > I'm sorry I could not tell you where Blur's "soul were at". > Probably up their arses, feet in mouth cf our soles. > > >>>> Yet of all Britpop's leading lights, > >>>> Blur is one of the least guilty of "retro rot". > >> > >>> Still guilty though: There is no glory in britpappy stodigy! > >> > >> I think we've got your point now. You don't like Blur. > > "You've made your point get over it Make a line in the sand" > > Yet you still miss the point > > Because I don't agree with you? No. To recap: during the early-mid 90s there was a lot of media attention focused on a very retrogressive rock scene in the UK which was known as 'Brit Pop.' Whilst many other things were happening people who don't try very hard to find new music took the easy way and started consuming this derivative MOR shlock. Later on a reversal of meaning occured and an 'indie' band, formerly a band on an independent label, became a tag stuck feebly to any band that played guitars. Of course many were fooled by this marketing scam. Some people got confused and thought they were listening to 'independent' bands when they were really just getting more of the same old corporate crap. In much the same way as 'punk' was mistaken for an entrenched style by many, 'indie' became a selling point for weak derivative retro guitar pop marketed by international corporations. Blur (and the NME) were very much key players in this listless debacle. Wire were not. Once again I seem to have got an article out of Ideal Copy. This is one use of argument. >Maybe a little course in good ol' Plato Not that tired ol' Socrates plagiarist! Aristotle was much more fun. If philosophy is on the agenda Deleuze seems much more interesting... We can all become rhizomes and finally render the likes of the money watchers at NME redundant. > wouldn't hurt here. A hot debate can be great fun, but without mutual > respect there's not much point more than just sharpening our polemical > crafts [wich can be fun too I must admit] > Respect should be earned. Sorry, just having an internet connection and enough time on your hands to say hello all day isn't really enough. Anyone who has something interesting to say about Wire gets my respect... > >> You can't stand > >> anyone else liking them? > > > > Why should I care what you like unless you can come up with something that I > > haven't already had shoved down my throat over & over? Some people > > occasionally discuss interesting non-Wire music on IC and both Mark and Gil > > have introduced me to sounds that might otherwise have passed me by. Endless > > discussion of the same old bands that have been done to death over & over > > gets very dull. Its the price one has to pay for occasional Wire related > > discussion which unfortunately tends to get buried in a sea of old views on > > old topics already archived and (de)filed and forgotten and the repeat loops > > just seem to close tighter each week. If we are driven into a rut the wheels > > of parody begin to spin... > > Why take all this trouble [and time] bitching about something you don't give > a fuck about. Comedy. >Why not just stick to writing with Mark and Giluz then? There are only 3-4 chummy fruits on IC who talk huge amounts of nothing, most people don't post much and when they do they usually have something useful or witty to add. It doesn't really matter much, and is actually quite funny, but you seemed to be complaining about 'the loads of mail.' I do think that people could make email much more creative than they generally do... > > > > What is the price of b'dum b'dum? > > > > A bunch of chummy ol' fruits saying little more than 'hello' to each other 6 > > times a day or... > > "It takes strength to be gentle and kind" [Morrissey] > "Oh how I love / all of the very simple things in life" [Morrissey] Those simple Dutch eh? Wasn't there a song about them? What was Morrissey's considered opinion on people who spend all day online saying hello and asking each other questions that there are very obvious answers for in very obvious places (eg. www.wireviews.com)? So should we live by Morrissey's imaginary rules? Morrissey: "Reggae is Vile" "Hang the Blessed DJ" > > > >> Taliban fundaMENTALism. > > > > Armies of Blur Haters massed on the border > > Sweep up new Euro-religious order > > That is small price of Mogshirt marauders > > Exacted, enacted, hung, drawn and quartered > > Hey, it's the people's poet again! The Plagiarists Poet: People our people so y should it bee? That everyone should have to act like Morrissey? > Do you have a tune to go with it? > Catchy!! > If you haven't heard the tune who can you know if its catchy? Colds are catchy. > > > There is an old internet aphorism: > > He who calls someone a fascist has usually lost the argument or the plot... > > As opposed to winning it by writing "Blur=Shite" x20? > It is the level of criticism they are worthy of. Andrew has raised the game though. > > > If those who say "Blur=Shite" are the same as the Taliban you'd better watch > > out if Mogwai go to flying school!!!! > > Hehehe, nice image... It was a bit crap really, The Taliban didn't fly those planes! It was allegedly bearded Binny's lot, some of whom were quite likely trained by the CIA. Funny old world. Or not. > But I'm sure you know the difference between literally and figuratively. Opposites > So let me assure you so you can sleep at night - I don't think you're a > Taliban.... The Taliban also sleep. They are also human. Doesn't the Morrissey creed of gentility extend to them? Ever been to Afghanistan? >but your attitude towards your fellow IC-ers seem >borderline > fundamentalist. > > Figuratively or literally this time? > >> That or someone hasn't been taking his Prozac... > >> > > Sorry I will try to act more like a cabbage in future just to keep you > > happy, I love you so much! > > Ok, but NO tongues untill we've set a date! > Cheeking!!! > > > Or were you referring to yourself? > > In which case I wouldn't expect you to follow my advice, but that drug is > > probably not a great prop. > > Eeeeeeeeeew... [gets handbag] > > > >> Have a great night all - beautiful starry sky here... > >> > >> Bart > >> > >> > > Nothing but dead fish in the water here > > > > God Save the Queen the Fascist Regime > > (at least we got a fuckin' day off) > > Hehehe. Don't get me wrong, It's very entertaining 'n all, but are you for > real? I exist on multiple planes of so called reality. >Or just the last surviving smelly ol' punk from '77? Punk was an attitude (eg. DIY, no rules) not a style. You seem like one of the many who swallow the conveniant media lie that punk died in 77/78. Despite Wire's refusal to identify themselves with the style and veneer of 'punk,' they do seem to fit into this definition of it. Graham Lewis interrogated by the Onion "One wants to encourage people to do things for themselves and do it the way they want to do it. If that's subversive, then absolutely." Oh well, if it > make me laugh... [especially when read in Richie's voice] Funtime! I don't need to imagine voices when I read. Most of us grow out of that in primary school. > > First day now for me in selfemployment - feels great! [and the suuuun is > shiiiining] > Who needs a job! Plenty of [dead?] fish in the sea! > > Cheers to y'all... > > Bart > > And I lift all bands from 'The Bin', give them a pardon and throw in every band ever associated with the Britpap rot, throw in a well soaked oily rag, a nice big lump of magnesium and a match or 3. Osama Bin Kablooie Boiling boys a picture of pollution Wire phoenix rises ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #179 *******************************