From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #176 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, June 3 2002 Volume 05 : Number 176 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Mystery Lyric ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Earworm Errata (Crabs in the Sand) ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] The Three R's Burned ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Dads Blurred Disco ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Ooperzootics on the Brain ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Dads Blurred Disco [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Mystery Lyric ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Raging Bill [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Raging Bill [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] my name is... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] my name is... [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] my name is... [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] beetlebum rush ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Fugazi Tour Postponed ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] His name was Lubert Das ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] WFMU The Cherry Blossom Clinic - February 22, 2002 ["Keith A] Re: [idealcopy] Fugazi Tour Postponed ["Keith Astbury" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:37:13 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mystery Lyric i thought it was an anagram.... waahoooo waahoooo song 2 by the mighty blur ; ) keith > > Awooooha > > Awooooha > > check check check > > easy: Cannonball - Breeders > > Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:51:40 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mystery Lyric On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 12:37:13PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > i thought it was an anagram.... > > waahoooo > waahoooo > > song 2 by the mighty blur ; ) I think Blur are responsible for some pretty good lyrics, actually: "Nothing is wasted Only reproduced You get nasty blisters Du bist sehr sch\:on, But we haven't been introduced ...", from "Girls and Boys" is a pretty good rendering of the same territory covered by Wire in "On Returning": "You'll be sorry when the sun has roasted you to Lobster red, nothing said When yellow has turned green to brown, divide by four Multiply by nine, describe your divisions, anatomical derision" - - which may be more self-consciously clever, but is (if anything) I think a less effective evocation of the desperation of the lager-lout on holiday who Blur are sending up. Blur are strange in that they clearly mean *something* by what they say, but they're so vehemently sarcastic and (I suspect) private that they refuse to play the obvious line. They can't help but sabotage and subvert their *own* work - anyone who's heard the intro to their stage shows on "Live at the Budokan", or the Great Lost Single "Popscene", can hardly doubt this. I see a lot of similarities between Blur and Wire, actually. Andrew - -- "Every aircraft, every camera, Is a wish that wasn't granted." - - Mogwai, "Take Me Somewhere Nice" ('Rock Action') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:33:18 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In Total on 31/05/02 04:54, Bill Hick at umur_ot@hotmail.com wrote: >> Why not look at this as retro too? >> > > Because whilst some of the rock idiom might seem to be calling on the bands' > own past (and indeed the past of Lemmy / Motorhead / Hawkwind on Comet & > Agfers) the recording techniques are rather more contemporary. I'm sure you didn't actually mean that. It's not the recording techniques that are more contemporary. It's the whole approach towards music making that makes R&B01 so different from Pink Flag, and so new and innovative regardless of what the band did in the past. on 30/05/02 00:30, Bill Hick at umur_ot@hotmail.com wrote: > THE "SHOUTY-ROCK FESTIVAL" WITH COLIN NEWMAN > > June 3rd 7-9pm BST Resonance FM 104.4FM (in London) What's BST? Is that British time zone or what? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 01:54:06 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Earworm Errata (Crabs in the Sand) I was talking bollocks... Earworm indie still functional & soon releasing yet more Acid Mothers Temple Veteran ShoutyBlokes Aggro zenpunk rhetoricysts Nomeansno used to release albums on www.alternativetentacles.com The last couple have been on their own Wrong Records. Hear the best track from 'One' at http://www.epitonic.com/artists/nomeansno.html Eric says 'retro' Punx say 'Lets GO!!!' Which part of Nomeansno don't you understand? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/zero21.htm Potential H-Bomb? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 03:24:32 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Bart Mother Yawns... Prozac on Horseback The aphorism "Blur=Shite" became self evident: "He knows the swingers and their cavalry Says he can get in anywhere for free I began to go a little cross-eyed And from this charmless man I just had to hide" [Blur - Charmless Man] Is nth rate Morrissey plagiarism the best those Britpappy bores could do? Communist headbangers! Morrissey in reverse! It also proves their lack of practical intelligence as they didn't need to hide, they could just have not put the charmless man on the guestlist in the first place. Then they wouldn't have to bore folk by bitching about it later. Couldn't they just sing about baggy shirt and dirty trousers instead? Could prozac help their cross eyed afflictions? Maybe the root of their problem is that charmless men feed their horses, but they are too gormless to realise it. Con men (attempt to) charm people... In footy speak: an own goal! (Try another one, that was pure slapstic!) Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart van Damme To: wire-news Start spreading the Wire News! Blur have nothing to say Start spreading the Wire News! They still Blurble away Cc: Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mother of Yawns... > > I doubt it meets my criteria for 'rocking'!!!! > > But I will bow to yr superior couch potatism here and say that yes of course > > just being able to 'rock' isn't necessarily enough!!!!!!!!! It helps just a > > little if the band can subvert the rock (Blur seemed incapable of this, if you > > disagree please name specific tracks! Describe the way they set it on fire! > > Where was their soul at? Did they burn with more than the refracted pizzlings > > of their cursed record collection?) > > I feel no particular reason to describe ANYthing to meet your personal > criteria, I'm quite happy using my own [wich I've tried to air in previous > mails] > > You didn't understand. Yet I feel no need to explain! > >> Yet of all Britpop's leading lights, > >> Blur is one of the least guilty of "retro rot". > > > Still guilty though: There is no glory in britpappy stodigy! > > I think we've got your point now. You don't like Blur. Yet you still miss the point >You can't stand > anyone else liking them? Why should I care what you like unless you can come up with something that I haven't already had shoved down my throat over & over? Some people occasionally discuss interesting non-Wire music on IC and both Mark and Gil have introduced me to sounds that might otherwise have passed me by. Endless discussion of the same old bands that have been done to death over & over gets very dull. Its the price one has to pay for occasional Wire related discussion which unfortunately tends to get buried in a sea of old views on old topics already archived and (de)filed and forgotten and the repeat loops just seem to close tighter each week. If we are driven into a rut the wheels of parody begin to spin... What is the price of b'dum b'dum? A bunch of chummy ol' fruits saying little more than 'hello' to each other 6 times a day or... >Taliban fundaMENTALism. Armies of Blur Haters massed on the border Sweep up new Euro-religious order That is small price of Mogshirt marauders Exacted, enacted, hung, drawn and quartered There is an old internet aphorism: He who calls someone a fascist has usually lost the argument or the plot... If those who say "Blur=Shite" are the same as the Taliban you'd better watch out if Mogwai go to flying school!!!! > That or someone hasn't been taking his Prozac... > Sorry I will try to act more like a cabbage in future just to keep you happy, I love you so much! Or were you referring to yourself? In which case I wouldn't expect you to follow my advice, but that drug is probably not a great prop. > Have a great night all - beautiful starry sky here... > > Bart > > Nothing but dead fish in the water here God Save the Queen the Fascist Regime (at least we got a fuckin' day off) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 00:19:42 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Ocsid in Vargaland I asked Graham Lewis how the recent Elgaland-Vargaland celebrations went, and whether Ocsid, who performed there, had any plans to release further recordings. This is his hot copy, forwarded to Ideal Copy with permission: "Immense....hilarious....public....Generous!!!! The celebrations were held in the Bar of The Lydmar Hotel in Public not camera. I had almost no voice left on Sunday after 42 hours of (uncontinuous) cheering, jeering, swearing, barracking, talking, LAUGHING! Secondary smoking, free bar drinking! I believe it was well documented......a (real) film was being made about the KREV/ ians during the celebrations, numerous video / photographic / audio recordings...... Ocsidians well pleased with their contribution (1 hour) despite the unscheduled performance mid-set of Regina Lund (her scheduled performance had been cancelled due to her serious ill health) reciting one of her own POEMS.......anyone needing a backing band at short notice should look no further. Mike 5*****Master of Ceremonies (The British Ambassador) has reassured me all has been captured...that is the sum of Ocsid4s plans...." (if it isn't electric...) Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/zero21.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:43:34 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] The Three R's Burned Rick Read the Burn >>>'Agfers..' in particular sounds more like an updated 'Chairs Missing'. Even that falls short though. Do you mean the CM comparison falls short? When I read the title of the song prior to hearing the EP I thought it very likely Graham would sing it, as it seems more like a Dome title than a Wire one. Agfers is the one that doesn't really remind me much of any previous Wire songs, except maybe the mani(a)c vocal delivery of Torch It, and in passing Sand in my Joints. I think Agfers is an oddity, as it flies in at a very hard rock trajectory that puts me in mind of Hawkwind - I think Gil mentioned Black Sabbath in comparison to it. The beat sounds a little like She's Lost Control sped up (but only a very little and much harder). The big surprise came on Agfers. Both Mark & I mistook the chorus for a Colin vocal! The whole song ups the Lewis dementia a notch above Torch It & Diet of Too Much. >>>To me, R&B sounds *new* and the only complaint I would have is the brevity of it. I wanted more at first... But now I think the brevity works in its favour - its led to many more repeat plays just because once is not always enough! If you want to catch a taster for the next instalment, it might be a good plan to check out Colin's radio / webcast on Monday: http://www.resonancefm.com http://www.posteverything.com/news/article.php?id=2207 If you're left wanting more then R&B02 will be welcome! What will the 2nd concept bee? >>>I am still in awe of "I Don't Understand"! Cranked up high it's like the musical equivalent of a freight train plowing through my house! The entire EP benefits from being blasted at floorquake levels. I hope the homelessness Wire have caused you will not diminish your appreciation of their music. Is there sky in Santa Cruz? Robert Cambra asked >>>Any more US Wire dates confirmed? Makes sense to release RnB02 at the time of the US tour, doesn't it? Impeccable timing... >>>Cheers, Robert (the other Robert who never had the great fortune to spend an hour with Graham Chapman) After reading Tom Baker's (I think it might've been called 'Who?'), Graham Chapman's autobio is a hilarious read. If you work in publishing can you blag books? Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/zero21.htm NP Read & Burn 01 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 01:39:24 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dads Blurred Disco Probably worth its weight in dogshit I'll swap you half a grubby T. Wilson 'Twat' poster. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dads Blurred Disco > Speaking of Blur.....I was in a thrift shop the other day and found a big > full color bio-book about Blur..(i bought it even though the only Blur song i > like is Girls and Boys (Pet Shop Boys remix) with tons of pictures and > stories..anybody wanna trade me something for it? > > RL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:04:00 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Ooperzootics on the Brain Hello Robert! Hello Keith! Hello Bart! What a lovely day! the highway surveyor had played her ace against his jack Hello Robert! Hello Keith! Hello Bart! What a lovely day! the rum-gagger was about to shake the bullet Hello Robert! Hello Keith! Hello Bart! What a lovely day! he'd enough cat-speak to make any wise man dumb Hello Robert! Hello Keith! Hello Bart! What a lovely day! was this where the chicken got the axe? Hello Robert! Hello Keith! Hello Bart! What a lovely day! one armed, queer-gammed and sharp as the corner of a wooden table Hello Robert! Hello Keith! Hello Bart! What a lovely day! above, sun-dodgers prepared to turn the black spotlight on Hello Robert! Hello Keith! Hello Bart! What a lovely day! Who could forget Claude Bessy? Forever in Disorder Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/zero21.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 10:28:30 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dads Blurred Disco In a message dated 6/2/02 9:11:33 AM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > Probably worth its weight in dogshit > > I'll swap you half a grubby T. Wilson 'Twat' poster. > > Hahahaha! you could consider that a done deal but i traded it at my local shop for two John Zorn cds : Filmworks and Songs From the Hermetic Theatre.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:24:21 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mystery Lyric > > i thought it was an anagram.... > > > > waahoooo > > waahoooo > > > > song 2 by the mighty blur ; ) > I think Blur are responsible for some pretty good lyrics, actually: you'll get no argument from me andrew. i like blur. keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:25:25 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ooperzootics on the Brain > Hello Robert! > Hello Keith! > Hello Bart! > What a lovely day! yes it was. goodbye graeme. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:21:18 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] naming-- In a message dated 5/31/02 5:11:10 PM, Robert.Cambra@harpercollins.com writes: >Wire has for years been imbedded in my cerebral cortex, many lines at the >ready for use: > >practice makes perfect (ok, not original) >go ahead >I should have known better (this comes up a lot lately) >How many? >12xu >it's the ideal copy >oopersootics on the brain >tell me what it's like when you've had enough >that's the lowdown >I feel mysterious today and for those of us who don't mind having a listen to manscape now and then... every time i'm online i am reminded of "welcome, welcome" and "goodbye" - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:27:41 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] naming-- In a message dated 6/2/02 11:21:43 AM Central Daylight Time, Eardrumbuz@aol.com writes: > and for those of us who don't mind having a listen to manscape now and > then... > > every time i'm online i am reminded of > > "welcome, welcome" > and "goodbye" > > -another the paul > and of course as soon as the nastiness and flaming starts, Torch It comes to mind as well Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:40:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Brian Ferry on B.B.C radio 2/world cup info > There's a Brian Ferry concert on radio 2 on Tuesday > nite,7:00 p.m till 8:00 p.m,can anyone in blighty > record it for me (dolby 'c' if you have it)and I'll > transfer it to c.d.lemme know.Keith has kindly offered,but he only has a ghetto blaster....which would be goood enough if there's nowt else........Thanx.Ari > > ===== > btw for world soccer times and channel info in u.s.a go to http://espn.go.com/soccer/wctvschedule.html > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] Yikes!! Not sure how I missed this one, but Nina Hagen's going on tour in the US!!!! http://pollstar.com/tour/searchall.pl?By=Artist&Content=NINHAG&Key=Y So far she only gets as far as Ventura, but you never know! ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:38:18 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Raging Bill In a message dated 6/1/02 6:52:52 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > didn't have you down as a sabbath fan at all robert! > > haven't heard 'technical ecstacy' since i was in school, but my abiding > memory of it - apart from the 'oh that's a bit naughty' cover - is that > drummer bill ward sang on it. the papers slagged that track off, but i seem > to recall it was quite endearing. is it? (if it's utter shite please bear > in > mind i was 15 at the time!) > > keith > actually Keith, they were the first band that i truly loved!....Technical Ecstasy isn't all that great...Back Street Kids is a jaunty little number though...but i may as well get it to complete my collection of Ozzy era Sabbath...Believe it or not, Bill Ward actually lives here in St. Louis !!! don't ask me how or why but i see him at antique toy and comic book conventions all the time and he often gets recognized and asked for autographs...my brother talks to him sometimes and i think he's married to a woman from here and they own a business somewhere outside of St. Louis...pretty weird eh? an Englishman from a famous rock band living in the middle of nowhere in the USA..not NYC or LA, just plain old St. Louis Missouri.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:28:19 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Raging Bill Bart, << To me Colin is the greatest lyricist of all >> To paraphrase John Lennon, he's not even the best lyricist in Wire.... Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:29:36 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my name is... << Now, could this be a case of plagiarism by Colin? ;-) >> Madman's Honey is almost certanly a Lewis lyric... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:37:50 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my name is... In a message dated 6/2/02 1:30:29 PM Central Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > << Now, could this be a case of plagiarism by Colin? ;-) >> > > Madman's Honey is almost certanly a Lewis lyric... > > Mark > well if you ask politely, maybe Graeme would ask Colin (or Graham) who wrote the lyric....just a thought.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:50:44 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my name is... << well if you ask politely, maybe Graeme would ask Colin (or Graham) who wrote the lyric....just a thought.. >> Generally Wire songs are based round Colin's musical interpretation of Graham's texts. This is not how most bands work (ie the singer sings his own words). Sometimes the words are provided by Bruce (eg two people in a room, too late) and sometimes by Colin (eg the 15th). Bruce's tend to be pretty direct, quite personal. Colin's tend to be simple and abstract. Graham's tend to be obtuse but obviously the work of a writer. Can't really see Madman's Honey as being anything other than a Lewis text... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:11:01 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] beetlebum rush this weeks nme features a bit of a non-story re. blur not working with fatboy slim. however it also a bit called 'beetlebum rush', which is a list of people that damon albarn has fallen out with.... noel gallagher liam gallagher brett anderson justrine frischmann huey (fun lovin' criminal stephen malkmus mogwai tony blair the rest of blur nme anyone want to contact the nme with one glaring omission? whilst on the subject of this wks nme - don't know guided by voices myself, but i know a few people here like them. their new 'everywhere with helicopter' single gets a really good review in this weeks nme. 'sticky with pollards mccartney-like keen and psyche pop attitude. US pop would be immeasurably poorer without GBV...' live review of fisherspoon describes their version of 'the 15th' as gorgeous... anyone interested in jamc may be pleased to know that there's new compilation out called '21 singles'. 9/10 - and rightly so imo... keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:13:11 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Fugazi Tour Postponed Andrew's comparison of Idlewild to Fugazi seems very dubious to me, but I've only heard IW in passing on the radio and maybe their first recordings are not quite as bland as what I heard... Reminded me that Fugazi UK tour has been postponed due to a death in a band member's family. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:48:05 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] His name was Lubert Das Bart didn't have much to add >>>Nice to hear someone else is interested too. I knew the Bosch painting [and the great song of course] but never linked the two together. I've always loved those moments when things seem to fall in place. GREAT stuff! Have you seen the picture online Ian? Ian replied >>>seen it...? its set as my desktop wallpaper already...!!!!!! I've had a scan of the Dome Disobey flyer on the desktop for ages. It's this photo of a strange statue of a masked mutant kid with a long head and only one I. Maybe his name is Tervis? If anyone would like a copy I can email a j-peg to them off list. Bart tried feeding parrots fishbones >>>Now, could this be a case of plagiarism by Colin? ;-) Unlikely since Graham wrote the Lubert Das lyric. Your concept of plagiarism seems as wooly as your concept of bravery. Lewis: "The original idea for Madman's Honey was from a photograph I saw of a civilisation in Northern Turkey, which has no written record. They have these incredibly grand statues. But all that's known is that in this place they brewed a mead from honey, and the people came from miles around to celebrate and drink, and when they drank the mead they went mad. The Lubert Das reference is from a Hieronymous Bosch painting called The Cure of Folly." (from 'Everybody Loves A History' / Kevin Eden) In other words the mead got them very drunk... So one interpretation is that MH is just a more intellectual take on Sham 69's 'Hurry Up Harry.' Here's another interpretation... "The dreamy chorus, which is about the experience of becoming mad, invokes the medieval image of Fortune's Wheel, whose capricious rotations determine the changing fates of human beings: "How does it feel/With one turn of the wheel/You reach the living end?". There are still more esoteric references in the song. "Master cut the stone out,/My name is Lubbert Das" is a translation of the inscription above Hieronymus Bosch's The Stone Operation (alternatively titled The Cure of Folly) which depicts a surgeon removing an object (apparently a tulip rather than a stone) from a patient's head. This entirely fictional operation was performed by medieval quacks as a cure for madness. Indeed, Bosch's painting is an elucidation of human gullibility (in medieval Dutch literature, the name 'Lubbert' designates persons of unusual stupidity). It is not too far-fetched to regard the painting as a metaphor for Wire's artistic program, insofar as Wire's canvases depict the folly of society. Like Bosch, Wire are concerned less with individual foibles than with moral and symbolic types, from hedonistic yuppies to the homeless." http://www.wireviews.com/wireviews/articles/e_stephen_harper.html The grass grows out Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Joseph Nothing - Dreamland Idle Orchestra (www.planet-mu.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:22:12 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] WFMU The Cherry Blossom Clinic - February 22, 2002 listers may recall stephen sending a message re. WFMU radio a while = back. well as a result of what he's said, i've tuned into listen to the = yeah yeah yeahs session. haven't actually reached that bit yet, but i = thought listers who don't already know it, may want to hear big black's = version of 'heartbeat'. and you get hot chocolate's 'emma' thrown in for = good measure too!=20 thanks stephen... keith http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/2651 [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of WFMU The Cherry Blossom Clinic - February 22, 2002.url] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:34:48 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fugazi Tour Postponed > Andrew's comparison of Idlewild to Fugazi seems very dubious to me, but I've > only heard IW in passing on the radio and maybe their first recordings are not > quite as bland as what I heard... only got 'kill taker' by fugazi, but i can't see a connection myself. never liked idlewild to be honest. seemed like one of the more risible of the nme this weeks flavour bands to me. keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:40:45 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fugazi Tour Postponed << only got 'kill taker' by fugazi, but i can't see a connection myself. never liked idlewild to be honest. seemed like one of the more risible of the nme this weeks flavour bands to me. >> Have to say I don't care for either band. Fugazi seem to offer nothing particularly original, but shout a lot. Idlewild offer absolutely nothing original and don't shout much. In the bin, the pair of you. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:59:29 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the world cup is finally here > John Dowie ocupies one side of the FAC2 Factory Sample double 7in along with > Durutti Column, Cabs... and of course Joy Davidson. > > British Tourist was his best-known song - remember him doing it on Revolver > once. not that it matters - and i'm probably wrong anyway mark - but wasn't it the '77 series of 'so it goes' that dowie did this on? i just seem to associate it with tony wilsons smug expression... keith > There was also a line about them "mincing around in clogs".. > > Mark;-) > > << Anybody else remember a 7" EP that came out on Virgin ca. 1980 on > bubble-gum pink vinyl by a guy calling himself "Sir John Dowie", or some > such. It was > a freebie inside a 10" "Live at the Electric Circus EP", I believe. Had a > hilarious song on it called "British Tourist", about hating the Dutch: > > "I'm a British tourist > And I'm very very rude. > I hate the foreigners > I hate their stinking food. > > I don't like French or Germans > Or care for Belgians much > But most of all, most of all > I hate the Dutch! > > The Dutch, the Dutch > With fingers in their dikes > They use the wrong side of the road > And ride around on bikes. > > They don't have any manners > They don't say "thanks" or "please" > And all they eat is tulips > And stinking gouda cheese." > > > Bart [used to play this tape on holidays - how humbling!] > > I remember it ending with: "There's only one race worst than them and > that's... the... DAAAANES!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 04:00:08 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Bart Nibbled Away - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart van Damme To: Bill Hick Cc: wire-news Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Raging Bill > >> Perhaps I'm the only one here, but I'm not all that impressed with Read & > >> Burn. > > > So what is better this year? > > Special Small Faeces Blurbling in Adam's Pants? > > It is possible to be critical without comparing it to other band's outlets > you know. You are right! I do know! He knows! >>>I was comparing it with the impact previous wire-releases made on > me, wich to me seems a reasonable enough arguement. > > > >> I don't dislike it, > > > > We agree! How the IC makes us happy! > > Well, I AM actually... even this mail makes me happy funnily enough. > > Whilst you characterise me as 'raging' I am more often laughing a hell of a lot at the carpfish I send to this list, although of course I am aware that my humour often goes over some peoples' heads. > >> but to me some of the songs deliberately try to > >> imitate a Pink Flagish feel. > > > > I asked Colin about this . > > > > His reply is that there was no intention to be retro. > > > > Perhaps there was a reversion to minimalism of a sort? > > Why did you go and ask Colin that question in the first place then? > Must have been something to do with the effect the songs made on you or not? Many aspects of the songs reminded me of Pink Flag songs (specifically Pink Flag, Lowdown, Surgeon's Girl, 12XU) Therefore it seemed logical to ask if it was intentional to reference these songs. Colin said 'No intention to be retro.' So unless Colin is lying it seems there wasn't a 'deliberate' attempt to ape Pink Flag. However this dialogue is continuing... > And were his answer satisfying enough for you? I have no reason to suspect his honesty. >Just a denial doesn't seem > like much of a statement to me. Not really the nitty gritty you spoke of eh? His answer explained that he was not trying DELIBERATELY to be retro. Do you understand? Colin can nit grit with the best of 'em! > [see below] > > > >> I like Wire better when they surprise me as they have done with earlier > >> recordings - when they constantly seem to be a step ahead of me. > > > > If you are listening to blur & strokes how can wire be considered 'behind' > > you? Maybe the next EP will leap ahead of your progressive tastes! > > You consider R&B not retro because Colin told you it wasn't. No I don't. I consider it not to be retro because it couldn't have been made the way it was in Pink Flag time. There is no way Wire could've sounded like this 25, 20, 15 years ago even though they might have been able to write a song very similar to Comet... *How does 'In The Art of Stopping' relate to the Pink Flag album? It sounds forward looking in comparison to their peers Buzzkunst, who on the surface might appear to be doing something similar... What are you > now, disciple Bill spreading the [fundamentalist] word? I am The Divergent Wasp, the fly in the ointment who can spread more dis-ease than the fleas I used to be the boiling boy until my atoms exited. No room for other > opinions but your own - [wich has proven to be Colin's really]. Plenty of room for lots of opinions. You haven't PROVED anything. I thought Colin's take on his own creation might be of interest to a list that is allegedly about Wire... OK, I suppose we'll just have to email Colin now to let him know that he was wrong, he was DELIBERATELY being retro, even though he said he wasn't. At least I > had the guts to speak my mind about something very dear to me. Sending email takes guts now? I think we have very different concepts of bravery... >A shame you > can't appreciate a healthy discussion amongst equals here. A shame you can't usually manage much more than mundane and pointless bandwidth wasting relevant-content bereft posts and when you do make the effort with a longer reply, you don't actually say much. What to do now > with this heretic Bart? > > Tie him to an inflatable jet. It's so obvious > >> I don't see all that much difference between ripping your own catalogue or > >> someone else's. > > > > Why? > > Surely taking your own ideas and honing them and refining them is preferable > > to watering down someone else's and then making their legacy a joke by > > listing your own execration upon it? > > Feeble arguements of a 13 year old. Try harder [and don't lose your cool > this time]. > > You try harder. If they are feeble arguments, rubbish them! Just guessing my age isn't a 'healthy discussion amongst equals.' So if all are equal are we all 13? > > Nothing wrong with plagiarism if it opens doors and reveals ideas or hidden > > vistas. Britpappies closed doors. Allbran's fusty conservative list proves > > it! > > I can hear you thinking: No, I think you probably just have rumbling guts! What did you have for dinner? What is your favourite tea? >Someone who likes Blur could not never EVER really > appreciate Wire. Words of Bart not Bill. >That's were you're wrong. I guess I can unsubscribe. Bart can just send my posts for me as he knows what I'm thinking, riding shotgun in a tub of lard >Take the pain bi... er... Bill! That's wir I pin the blam > > > So do you have a problem with Wire being relatively original compared to yr > > crappy britpap faves? > > I don't have a problem with Wire at all. Except for being disappointed by RnB01? >Wire is the greatest band on the > planet and worthy of healthy criticism. Whereas Blur are just shite, and not really worthy of serious discussion. Mogwai's T-shirt really was the level of critique they richly deserved. >It's halfwitted fundamentalism I > have a problem with. > > Are you calling me a halfwitted fundamentalist, or just making the usual irrelevent comments? > >> Why not look at this as retro too? > > > Because whilst some of the rock idiom might seem to be calling on the bands' > > own past (and indeed the past of Lemmy / Motorhead / Hawkwind on Comet & > > Agfers) the recording techniques are rather more contemporary. > > You're hiding behind "Recording techniques" now? Boy, this sounds desperate. Not half as desperate as your pointless attempt at a reply! Recording and editing techniques have some small bearing on how a record sounds, thus seem to be a relevant aspect for discussion in any critique. Perhaps like many you underestimate the importance of production and sonic texture in favour of songwriting? > My question still stands... > Which question? > > > The lyrics are also a cut above the average. > > As always waaay above! To me Colin is the greatest lyricist of all [Pollard > being a good 2nd]. > > Are you aware that Graham writes more of Wire's lyrics than Colin and Bruce also has some considerable input? Many songs are combined attacks (Eardrum Buzz for example) > > Funny how you judge Wire so much more harshly than these other shitty bands > > that this list isn't about. > > I can tell you: It's because I take Wire way more seriously than any other > band [and I presume that goes for all IC-ers - why else bother with these > loads of mail every day] We could drastically cut down on all these mails by stopping sending one word nothing replies and deleting some of the bits we reply to which don't need repeating. You could help cut inbox overflow by sending one word replies like 'Thanks' to the sender you wish to thank and not the whole list. btw anyone replying to anything I write on IC need only send it to IC, I don't really need 2 copies of everything! I rarely check email more than once a day... My expectations of them are high. Your not very > good with criticism are you? > > All you said was that you were disappointed because you weren't surprised and you were reminded of Pink Flag. Wire have reworked similar ideas many times in the past. Drill references 12XU The First (Vien) Letter mashes up Reuters & Over Theirs IBTABA is mostly reworked oldies Underwater Experiences wouldn't stay submerged Take It samples Strange etc. I'd say its you who is not very good AT criticism. Prove me wrong! > > Put yr money where yr mouth is... > > Hmmm, now that must give quite a ticking sensation... > > Not always a matter of choice? > > Which other rock bands have done it better in 2002 (or to be fair to those > > who are slow to assimilate, 2001 too) then? > > If it really is so obvious I can't wait to hear YOUR band. > > I couldn't care less about other bands in this discussion. Fair enough, but Wire do not exist in a vacuum. My point > concerned Wire - and not in comparison with other bands. Otherwise one could > say: Hey, this truely was a baaad rock year, but Wire wasn't as bad as the > others. Do you mean baaad as in good, or bad as in Blur=Shite? >Tell me Bill, have you ever had any critique on Wire? > Yes. eg. The review I wrote of RnB01 made some criticisms. I find some of the synthnoises on the 'Berlin Drill' very dated and cheesy. I was so critical of Robert leaving after Manscape and so disappointed by 'Slow & So' that I didn't buy The First Letter until a couple of years after it was released and even then found most of it a bit lightweight and unmemorable. It has grown in over the years though. Tell me Bart, do you actually consider what you are writing to be insightful enough to critique? > > If you have criticisms then be more specific, less generic. This is the WIRE > > list after all, I think it would be deemed acceptable to get to the nitty > > gritty! > > Nah... I wish you all the best with your precious set of rules, but I'd > rather stick to my own. Please elucidate: What are my precious rules? Nah, I suspect its because you can't actually manage to come up with anything close to an interesting critique, and can't even come close to living up to the set of rules you say you abide by. Go ahead, prove me wrong... > > > NP Breeders Last Splash > > Like I said earlier, maybe there's hope for you yet. > > No hope for any of us I'm afraid. Doom, doom and more doom. Ten years after? More doom! ShoutyBloke Alec Empire hit the nail when he said "We all die!" > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Blur=Total Shite > > Wow, aren't you the edgy little fella... > Wow, aren't you the patronising little fella > My advice, go and see a couple of Scorcese films and deal with whatever > existence crisis your in. Everything will turn out right, believe me. > It'll take more than a couple of arty films to sort out the mess we've made of this planet. WAKE UP! > All the best, > > bart > > When people are asleep we must all become alarm clocks The sharks outlived the dinosaurs NP Dome - Yclept (WMO) ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #176 *******************************