From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #168 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, May 28 2002 Volume 05 : Number 168 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["bartvandamme@home" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [Andrew Walkingshaw ] RE: [idealcopy] Chanting a Curse whilst Religiously Spitting! ["Eric Klav] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Oxxxes in the Brochure ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Oxxxes in the Brochure ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["ian.s. jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] NME RADIO [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] REM without sleep... [Santa Cruzer ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["bartvandamme@home" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [Santa Cruzer ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who/REM ["bartvandamme@home" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["bartvandamme@home" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? [Santa Cruzer ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["bartvandamme@home" ] Re: [idealcopy] REM without sleep... ["bartvandamme@home" ] Re: [idealcopy] guess who? ["Keith Astbury" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:50:51 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? I think that perhaps this is a matter of taste then Giluz, Because I think they're very talented. The thing about Damon Albarn that annoys me sometimes that he come across as being a bit of a cleverdick, as if it's almost too easy for him. But the songs are well crafted - perhaps sometimes a bit too good. That's why I liked them best in their more or less desintegrated state after The Great Escape. That stuff is much less "composed" and sounds more loose. Also less of a pop-boyband... Though I too am fond of Graham's guitarplaying I must say I was a bit disappointed with his solo outlets - something that absolutely didn't trouble me with Gorillaz wich still strikes me as being inventive, fun and original. Somehow the whole thing reminds me a bit of Funboy Three - anyone else had that? Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl >> I don't have a problem with him. The new BBC4 channel had a documentary about >> his exploits, which was either a very brave or a very pretentious thing to >> do. They showed some of the concert at the Barbican, in which Damon was >> peripheral to say the least - he played rhythm guitar most of the time. But >> he's a genuine enthusiast, and his efforts have given various Mali musicians >> an unexpected payday. There are far worse indulgences for rich rock stars... >> >> Also that list of Blur's influences was pretty impressive. How many new bands >> today could point to anything like that? Few seem to go beyond a very basic >> selection (Stooges/Ramones/Velvets) that looked limited even 20 years ago. > > That's exactly the problem I have with Blur - lots of good will combined > with the 'right' influences (which are indeed impressive) is not enough. > Some talent could be useful as well. > > giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:50:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > Mark said... > The Associates were one of the best live bands I've ever seen. You can get > some idea of what they were like from the 1st Peel session. Absolutely > nothing like their albums - muchg harder, faster, louder. never saw them myself, but other people have also told me how good they were live. unfortunately, if you didn't see them 'affectionate punch' era, you were basically buggered. hardly played live afterwards did they... played the 1981 peel session recently. still pretty mad though isn't it? > interviewed Billy Mac at the gig I saw (Derby, 1980) but I fear the tape has > been lost. bloody hell. THAT is a shame mark. >Good bloke, very interesting stuff from what I can remember! Have > you read the book about him (The Glamour Chase)? A sad tale... yeah, although i found my reaction surprising to be honest. i'd always been on the side of the artist and considered the record company the big nasty wolf - not releasing 'the glamour chase' LP etc - BUT...after reading 'the glamour chase' book i found myself sympathising with the record co. personnel. i mean what were they supposed to do with a man who just seemed to want to wind them up? the one good thing to come from billy's death is the abundence of stuff that's been released since - there's probably been more billy albums released in the five years since he died than the the previous 15 yrs of his life. apart from the re-issues (no sign of the original 'affectionate punch' making it to cd though) we've had... the simply fabulous 'beyond the sun' (stuff he was working on at time of death. some beautiful ballads) 'eurocentric' (with steve aungle) (contains a couple of really good numbers. also features covers of 'wild is the wind' and 'never turn your back on mother earth', where billy does a spooky impersonation of russell mael) 'memory palace' (his collaboration with paul haig who also sings on a couple of tracks. nice to hear his tones again. contains a track where billy, ahem, rocks out!) 'double hipness' (2 cd's of associates demo's etc - inc. the tracks he did when he worked with alan rankine again in the early 90's. patchy but SOME good stuff. it also includes billy's riposte to morrissey - 'stephen it was really something'!) goes to show how billy was during his supposed quiet years. he just seemed to lack concentration. from what i've read his attention span was short and he would just go from project to project at the drop of a hat. i don't have a problem with that, but it was no way to run a career. btw did you know that the previously unreleased 'glamour chase' album has finally been released. it's a dbl cd with 'perhaps'. haven't got it yet, but it's only a matter of time... > Also recommended is Michael Dempsey's (ex Cure/Associates etc) web site which > has off-beat downloads of old reherasals etc. > > http://www.mdmmedia.com i've visited this, but not downloaded anything as yet. must get round to it thanks. keith np. low - bowie (yum!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:58:03 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? bart said... > I think that perhaps this is a matter of taste then Giluz, yeah it was a bit harsh! > Because I think they're very talented. The thing about Damon Albarn that > annoys me sometimes that he come across as being a bit of a cleverdick, i think you've hit the nail on the head there, bart. i think it's damon's perceived smugness that puts people off. > if it's almost too easy for him. But the songs are well crafted - perhaps > sometimes a bit too good. > That's why I liked them best in their more or less desintegrated state after > The Great Escape. That stuff is much less "composed" and sounds more loose. > Also less of a pop-boyband... blur certainly made some brave decisions post 'great escape'. they hardly rested on their laurels and certainly challenged their audiences perception of them. here's a poser though... would radiohead have been so brave (big group release uncompromising album) if they hadn't observed that blur still had something of an audience after their 'kid a' ('blur')??? keith still playing 'low' - a rather dodgy remix of the mighty 'sound & vision' has just come on. oh dear! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:54:33 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > > Mark said... > very impressive list as far as i'm concerned. in fact, with bolan, cope, > nick drake and wire all present and correct, iggy/the stooges were the only > act out of what is probably my personal top 5 missing from that list. here's a quick one for you... who is the only musician to have worked with bolan, cope and drake? clues available if required. mark, you have 5 minutes from...now! keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:50:44 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? On Mon, May 27, 2002 at 12:58:03PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > would radiohead have been so brave (big group release uncompromising album) > if they hadn't observed that blur still had something of an audience after > their 'kid a' ('blur')??? Speaking as someone who owns all the OKC-era singles and heard the B-sides, I'd say they would - it's not so far from something like "Meeting in the Aisle" to "Kid A", or "How I Made my Millions" to "How to Disappear": Kid A is 'Thom's album', it seems to me, and Thom always seems to have been most into the dance/techno end of things. Ed O'Brien and Colin Greenwood appear to have much more populist taste, and Jonny Greenwood guested on a Pavement album (on harmonica), after all. :) Apparently, though, Thom's decided he likes guitars again, and it might well be full steam ahead for Bends II... Andrew - -- [np. Mogwai - "My Father, My King"] adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 09:11:21 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? Norman Smith? << who is the only musician to have worked with bolan, cope and drake? >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 09:41:30 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? << would radiohead have been so brave (big group release uncompromising album) if they hadn't observed that blur still had something of an audience after their 'kid a' ('blur')??? >> If Radiohead learned a lsession it was NOT to follow your most successful album (Parklife) with one that tries to amplify elements of it (Great Escape, Blur's nadir IMO). Better to tear up the plans and do what feels right rather than try to repeat a major commercial success. It paid dividends for both bands - Blur's highest-earning song was proably Song 2, while Radiohead's crticial stock rose on the back of Kia A & Amnesiac, while scoring two no.1 albums on both sides of the atlantic. Didn't work for REM though, whose critical and commercial stock fell on the back of not making Automatic for the People 2 Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:37:59 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? Nope! Can't tell you how happy this has made me Mark ; ) here's a clue... also worked with talk talk and (this might clinch it) john martyn... Keith np 23 skidoo - dawning e.p. > Norman Smith? > > << who is the only musician to have worked with bolan, cope and drake? >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:39:17 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Chanting a Curse whilst Religiously Spitting! Where's the Love? Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:11:40 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? << Can't tell you how happy this has made me Mark ; )<< Ha blimmin ha! >> > << who is the only musician to have worked with bolan, cope and drake? >> >> here's a clue... also worked with talk talk and (this might clinch it) john martyn...<< Well, this is heading some way out of my territory.... I don't know a great deal about the realm of the folkie. Clearly Bolan once inhabited that domain, way before my time.... and while I once got dragged to see John Martyn (my other half is a fan) he doesn't do much for me. As for Julian, he tends to work with musicians from within his own clique...hence my guess at old Hurricane, who plays the trumpet on Reward... I only have a couple of Nick Drake albums - the acceptable side of finger-in-the-ear folkiedom - and these feature various suspects from the folkie world... Talk Talk hired all measure of people for the last two albums (I haven't been to check). So I'd guess at one of the following: Joe Boyd Richard Thompson Danny Thompson But I haven't a clue. And a hey nonny no. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:44:41 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > would radiohead have been so brave (big group release uncompromising album) > if they hadn't observed that blur still had something of an audience after > their 'kid a' ('blur')??? interesting observation keith... though I would give Radiohead enough credit to do so regardless of what Blur did... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 18:05:02 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? Mark: > If Radiohead learned a lsession it was NOT to follow your most successful > album (Parklife) with one that tries to amplify elements of it (Great Escape, > Blur's nadir IMO). Better to tear up the plans and do what feels right rather > than try to repeat a major commercial success. Well said. > It paid dividends for both bands - Blur's highest-earning song was proably > Song 2, while Radiohead's crticial stock rose on the back of Kia A & > Amnesiac, while scoring two no.1 albums on both sides of the atlantic. Didn't > work for REM though, whose critical and commercial stock fell on the back of > not making Automatic for the People 2 Funny, I always thought of Automatic as a sorta against shiny happy Out of Time album... but perhaps it DID have to many hits for that... But I did think Radioheads succes with Kid A was because of the ground they conquered with OKC... They did not have a Song 2... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:15:52 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > >> > << who is the only musician to have worked with bolan, cope and drake? > >> >> > here's a clue... also worked with talk talk and (this might clinch it) john > martyn...<< > > So I'd guess at one of the following: > > Joe Boyd > Richard Thompson > Danny Thompson Yep. It was Danny Thompson! Congrats!!! For the record, he played on a number of Nick Drake tracks, Julians 'China Doll' and, interestingly, latter day Bolan ('Zinc Alloy' 1974 - I'm guessing it was the acoustic track 'Change') and not his earlier more folkie stuff. Think I'm right in saying he worked with Tim Buckley too. As for John Martyn - not a major fan myself either, but I like a few albums and LOVE most of 'Solid Air' - for me that joins Nick Drake in (what you so rightly called) the 'acceptable side of finger-in-the-ear folkiedom'. Putting genre's aside - I think Thompson is a great bass player. He always adds something to the track. He should work with more non-folk acts as far as I'm concerned. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:21:12 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > > It paid dividends for both bands - Blur's highest-earning song was proably > > Song 2, while Radiohead's crticial stock rose on the back of Kia A & > > Amnesiac, while scoring two no.1 albums on both sides of the atlantic. Didn't > > work for REM though, whose critical and commercial stock fell on the back of > > not making Automatic for the People 2 > > Funny, I always thought of Automatic as a sorta against shiny happy Out of > Time album... but perhaps it DID have to many hits for that... > But I did think Radioheads succes with Kid A was because of the ground they > conquered with OKC... They did not have a Song 2... > Bart I'm gonna have to go back and give OK Computer another listen. I know i'm gonna upset a few people here, but it always sounded a bit too 'Bohemian Rhapsody' for my liking. Give me 'The Bends' anyday... Keith (taking cover even as we speak!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 18:08:47 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Oxxxes in the Brochure The Brochure CD might be sold out but if you're quick you might be able to get one from www.normanrecords.com 12" Wire In Vivo 12" on Mute 4.45 CD Wire Third Day CD on Pink Flag, mail order only 10.95 CD Wire, Various It's All In The Brochure ltd mail order only CD on Pink Flag 10.95 ++++ WIRE GIG AT THE ICA 20th July - London Institute of Contemporary Arts address : The Mall, LONDON, SW1Y 5AH ticket line : 020.7930.3647 Booking office open daily 12 midday - 9.30 pm e.mail : tickets@ica.org.uk www.ica.org.uk +++++++ Listen to John Peel R1 10pm June 5th to hear the finely dehinged rock'n'rock trio Oxes playing live in studio. Also check MP3 here http://www.epitonic.com/artists/oxes.html ++++++++++++ Small update featuring discs enjoyed so far this year, with links to many record label sites: Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/zero21.htm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NP. Kustomized at the Vanishing Point (matador) Excerpt from the Queen Mum's Book of Remembrance: "How refreshing to be able to mourn the death of a member of the Royal family without being accused of being homosexual". J. Fletcher, High Wycombe. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 18:54:47 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Oxxxes in the Brochure > Excerpt from the Queen Mum's Book of Remembrance: > "How refreshing to be able to mourn the death of a member of the Royal family > without being accused of being homosexual". > J. Fletcher, High Wycombe. > What about... "I thought she would never die, she has let us all down very badly" D.Holmes, Somerset plenty more where that came from!!! keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:35:07 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > Mark: > > If Radiohead learned a lsession it was NOT to follow your most successful > > album (Parklife) with one that tries to amplify elements of it (Great Escape, > > Blur's nadir IMO). Better to tear up the plans and do what feels right rather > > than try to repeat a major commercial success. > > Well said. > > > It paid dividends for both bands - Blur's highest-earning song was proably > > Song 2, while Radiohead's crticial stock rose on the back of Kia A & > > Amnesiac, while scoring two no.1 albums on both sides of the atlantic. Didn't > > work for REM though, whose critical and commercial stock fell on the back of > > not making Automatic for the People 2 > > Funny, I always thought of Automatic as a sorta against shiny happy Out of > Time album... but perhaps it DID have to many hits for that... > But I did think Radioheads succes with Kid A was because of the ground they > conquered with OKC... They did not have a Song 2... > Bart yeah, 'automatic' is a funny one. not THAT commercial on the face of it - certainly no shiny happy moments on it and yet it was massive. and then the electric 'monster' glamfest wasn't. maybe it was just a rare case of the public liking the better album (even if i did quite like the one dimensional nature of 'monster' myself). actaully, it's taken r.e.m. a few yrs/albums to get back to something resembling that level of success - which they did by re-treading former glories on 'reveal'. not my fave r.e.m. LP by any means, but maybe it's success was also down to it being more cohesive (if less interesting) than, say, '..hi-fi'. having said that i could never understand why 'up' wasn't a bigger success than it was - i thought it was a pretty commercial sounding album myself. yeah, i liked that one a lot i have to say. keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:59:38 +0100 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? having not read on yet... my guess is/was Danny Thompson... ian.s.j. >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >To: keith.astbury10@virgin.net >CC: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 09:11:21 EDT > >Norman Smith? > ><< who is the only musician to have worked with bolan, cope and drake? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 21:58:22 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > both my kids are named after bass players...Danny and Cait... it's a good job i didn't go down that road, or my kids would be called 'hooky' and 'jah'. needless to say, i wanted to call my youngest 'marc', but was told - in no uncertain terms! - that this wasn't gonna happen. and as for 'gloria' if it was a girl... ; ) keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:02:44 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] NME RADIO In a message dated 25/05/2002 18:46:41 GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > As I see it, the problem they've got is on the one hand, they were > caught on the hop by acid house, and all of a sudden they weren't > covering the sound of the day; now, they've been squeezed on the other > side by the rise of nu-metal (noting that Kerrang! is the world's > biggest selling music weekly now), Q et al have taken away a large part > of their "more mature" audience (so to speak), more fringe publications > and webzines (The Wire, et al) have taken away some of their avant-garde > fans, and they've been left as the Journal of Indie, having nailed their > flag to the mast during the Britpop resurgence, trading on their past > glories. > That's just about spot on Andrew.i don't read the NME much now.On the odd occasion I do buy it & read it (on a train most recently),I get underwhelmed by the limited imagination of the writers.Who said bring back Danny Baker ? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:10:34 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? On Mon, May 27, 2002 at 08:35:07PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > say, '..hi-fi'. having said that i could never understand why 'up' wasn't a > bigger success than it was - i thought it was a pretty commercial sounding > album myself. yeah, i liked that one a lot i have to say. It even had the right producer for a fair bit of the record in "Walk Unafraid"; the problem, though, is it *was* a very patchy record. At its best ("Daysleeper", "Parakeet", "Sad Professor", "At My Most Beautiful") I think it was up there with anything they've recorded; but there are a couple of songs which the recording of (more than the songs themselves) really set my teeth on edge - the version of "Why Not Smile" which is *way* inferior to the one on the "Daysleeper" single, for example, mainly because the album version is REM selfconsciously trying to do the electronic-percussion thing, when there is absolutely *no* "dance element to their music" so it's just painfully incongruous to my ears. Andrew - -- "He lies on his side; is he trying to hide?" - - Wire, 'Outdoor Miner' ("Chairs Missing") adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:45:50 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > the version of "Why Not Smile" which is > *way* inferior to the one on the "Daysleeper" single, for example, > mainly because the album version is REM selfconsciously trying to do the > electronic-percussion thing, when there is absolutely *no* "dance > element to their music" so it's just painfully incongruous to my ears. > Andrew my initial reaction was to agree, but... and yet 'lotus' was kind of dancey in a 'love is the drug' era roxy sort of way - well stipe seemed to think so (it certainly featured some of his best moves!), though - just to put the record straight - i have to say i haven't tried it myself ; ) keith n.p. v/a - a new breed of dub ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 00:45:13 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? on 27/05/02 13:58, Keith Astbury at keith.astbury10@virgin.net wrote: > bart said... >> I think that perhaps this is a matter of taste then Giluz, > > yeah it was a bit harsh! > >> Because I think they're very talented. The thing about Damon Albarn that >> annoys me sometimes that he come across as being a bit of a cleverdick, > > i think you've hit the nail on the head there, bart. i think it's damon's > perceived smugness that puts people off. Can't deny that this aspect existed, but the main reason was their music. > blur certainly made some brave decisions post 'great escape'. they hardly > rested on their laurels and certainly challenged their audiences perception > of them. And that's exactly what I meant when I said they have good intentions - the best. But they always sound so dated, as if they should have been born 10 or 20 years earlier (or maybe later?). Nothing they did was really innovative, it just always fell short of being really good. > > here's a poser though... > > would radiohead have been so brave (big group release uncompromising album) > if they hadn't observed that blur still had something of an audience after > their 'kid a' ('blur')??? Or maybe this is simply what happened when bands that came out of the ideology of the 80's alternative scene gained some commercial success? I could say that U2 also didn't rest on their laurels and tried some new directions. So what? I'm not that appreciative anymore of successful bands that try to look innovative by experimenting and changing their style. Not that I'm against it, it just doesn't work for me. The comparison to crap-pop mainstream acts is not right - there is more than one mainstream. To treat the matter justly, you should compare Blur to the list of influences they gave themselves and see how they cope. People should be judged by the rules of the system they operate in and not by those of any external one. giluz Np - meira asher - infantry (subrosa) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 23:46:51 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? giluz said > To treat > the matter justly, you should compare Blur to the list of influences they > gave themselves and see how they cope. They're better than some of their influences, worse than others IMO. (I won't bother listing which I think is which!) > People should be judged by the rules > of the system they operate in and not by those of any external one. Surely they should just be judged on whether they're any good or not. And Blur, IMO, are good. Maybe not 'great', but certainly very good. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 18:49:24 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? << > both my kids are named after bass players...Danny and Cait... it's a good job i didn't go down that road, or my kids would be called 'hooky' and 'jah'. >> That certainly raised a chuckle! Stand up and be counted - has anyone here named children/dogs/cats/goldfish after members of Wire?? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 18:58:40 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? Have to say I've never disliked an REM album - and the first five are absolutely impeccable. But therein lies the problem - if I want a fix of REM I'm likely to reach for one of those rather than, say, Up or New Adventures in Hifi - both of which are perfectly good albums, but not as good as Murmur or Reckoning. Same reason I rarely play Bend Sinister but play Perverted by Language a lot. Or Drill vs A bell is a cup etc. Unless of course I'm triggered by something like this discussion to go and play them! Mark << yeah, 'automatic' is a funny one. not THAT commercial on the face of it - certainly no shiny happy moments on it and yet it was massive. and then the electric 'monster' glamfest wasn't. maybe it was just a rare case of the public liking the better album (even if i did quite like the one dimensional nature of 'monster' myself). actaully, it's taken r.e.m. a few yrs/albums to get back to something resembling that level of success - which they did by re-treading former glories on 'reveal'. not my fave r.e.m. LP by any means, but maybe it's success was also down to it being more cohesive (if less interesting) than, say, '..hi-fi'. having said that i could never understand why 'up' wasn't a bigger success than it was - i thought it was a pretty commercial sounding album myself. yeah, i liked that one a lot i have to say. >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 00:09:24 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > << > both my kids are named after bass players...Danny and Cait... > > it's a good job i didn't go down that road, or my kids would be called > 'hooky' and 'jah'. >> > > That certainly raised a chuckle! > > Stand up and be counted - has anyone here named children/dogs/cats/goldfish > after members of Wire?? > > Mark I must confess that in my younger days I had a dog called 'Captain Dandy' after a certain Mr Sensible and the final T.Rex album. Why am I admitting to this ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:10:36 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? << I must confess that in my younger days I had a dog called 'Captain Dandy' after a certain Mr Sensible and the final T.Rex album. Why am I admitting to this ; ) >> Conjures up a nice image of you taking the dog for a walk in the park... "here boy! captain dandy!"...and being ridiculed by passing skinheads. Mark (who owns two cats named Phil and Grant after the Mitchell brothers in Eastenders..on account of the fact that they're brothers, stick together all the time but periodically beat the crap out of each other...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 01:17:44 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > Have to say I've never disliked an REM album - and the first five are > absolutely impeccable. But therein lies the problem - if I want a fix of REM > I'm likely to reach for one of those rather than, say, Up or New Adventures > in Hifi - both of which are perfectly good albums, but not as good as Murmur > or Reckoning. I suppose that's the difference. I was late getting into R.E.M. Although I heard bits in the mid-80's, I couldn't understand what the fuss was about to be honest (I don't think the 'American Smiths' tag did them any favours to be honest. I loved The Smiths and was hardly likely to like a different version more than the supposed real thing). So although I liked the odd track, it was 'Out of Time' before I *really* got into them. We had a family holiday in Florida that year and 'Losing My Religion' and 'Shiny Happy People' were playing everywhere! Anyway, although I've bought a couple of their earlier ones since (though not the two you mention, but I will one day - honest!), hearing 'Document' and 'Fables...' after their later stuff made them sound more quaint than essential IMO. I suppose when it comes to R.E.M., I'm like the Wire fans who got into the 80's incarnation first and then went back and listened to the 70's stuff, liked it - but not as much as what got them into Wire in the first place. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:47:49 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? Keith, << Anyway, although I've bought a couple of their earlier ones since (though not the two you mention, but I will one day - honest!), >> You really should buy Murmur! One of the great debut albums, soundls like it was created in its own world. Reckoning is like an extension of Murmur, but with added pop.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 18:33:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] REM without sleep... $.02 Department~ I think REM is one of those bands that really polarizes folks. This thread is certainly supporting that theory! I had a strange intro to them. Around 1980, I bought a copy of "Trouser Press", a UK music magazine, and there was a "keep an eye on these guys" section that talked about Athens and the music scene there. Perhaps it was how it was written, but I was expecting a very intense, gothic Bauhaus/Xymox kind of thing and found "Murmur" really turned me off! I suspect it was a case of dashed expectations, but they never registered on my radar after that. But after all of the dust settled, I now only own copies of 'Green' and 'Out of Time' and do enjoy them quite a bit, although there are a couple of songs on each of them that are dreadful (IMHO)! > << Anyway, although I've bought a couple of their > earlier ones since (though > not the two you mention, but I will one day - > honest!), >> > > You really should buy Murmur! One of the great debut > albums, soundls like it > was created in its own world. Reckoning is like an > extension of Murmur, but > with added pop.... ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:56:24 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? In a message dated 5/27/02 6:49:39 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > >Stand up and be counted - has anyone here named children/dogs/cats/goldfish > >after members of Wire?? not yet. my friend's car does have a nice license plate though...IBTABA - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:31:39 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > Stand up and be counted - has anyone here named children/dogs/cats/goldfish > after members of Wire?? Or people who named their John Thomas Robert Gotobed! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 21:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? hmmm... I have a cat named 'Pogo', which I used to do while listening to Wire! Close enough? Of course he's actually named after an old newspaper comic character, but what the hey! > > Stand up and be counted - has anyone here named > children/dogs/cats/goldfish > > after members of Wire?? > Bart PS - Bart, if you send me your home address, I will send you: Turns and Strokes In Esse Insiding Gilbert/Hampson/Kendall Sound cool? Lemme know! ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:45:35 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who/REM Inbetweenie that I am I count Green as my personal REM fave. Never again have I been more mesmerized than by this set of songs of weird longing. It always struck me as the stranger and rougher twin of Automatic? [now does that makes sense?] Bart Mark: > Have to say I've never disliked an REM album - and the first five are > absolutely impeccable. But therein lies the problem - if I want a fix of REM > I'm likely to reach for one of those rather than, say, Up or New Adventures > in Hifi - both of which are perfectly good albums, but not as good as Murmur > or Reckoning. Same reason I rarely play Bend Sinister but play Perverted by > Language a lot. Or Drill vs A bell is a cup etc. Unless of course I'm > triggered by something like this discussion to go and play them! Keith: > yeah, 'automatic' is a funny one. not THAT commercial on the face of it - > certainly no shiny happy moments on it and yet it was massive. and then the > electric 'monster' glamfest wasn't. maybe it was just a rare case of the > public liking the better album (even if i did quite like the one dimensional > nature of 'monster' myself). > > actaully, it's taken r.e.m. a few yrs/albums to get back to something > resembling that level of success - which they did by re-treading former > glories on 'reveal'. not my fave r.e.m. LP by any means, but maybe it's > success was also down to it being more cohesive (if less interesting) than, > say, '..hi-fi'. having said that i could never understand why 'up' wasn't a > bigger success than it was - i thought it was a pretty commercial sounding > album myself. yeah, i liked that one a lot i have to say. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:07:37 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? Rick: > hmmm... I have a cat named 'Pogo', which I used to do > while listening to Wire! Erm... erm... you used to DO your cat named Pogo?! This list is getting more interesting every day! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:12:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? Ahem... Boy I sure didn't think it would read THAT way when I wrote it! Well, I've always said that the dutch were better at english than we americans! - --- "bartvandamme@home" wrote: > Rick: > > hmmm... I have a cat named 'Pogo', which I used to > do > > while listening to Wire! > > > Erm... erm... you used to DO your cat named Pogo?! > This list is getting > more interesting every day! > > Bart Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:17:59 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > Ahem... > > Boy I sure didn't think it would read THAT way when I > wrote it! Well, I've always said that the dutch were > better at english than we americans! Or perhaps the Dutch are just more perverted [maybe because it's allowed/encouraged here so much] Cheers Rick! ;-) Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:42:40 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] REM without sleep... > I think REM is one of those bands that really > polarizes folks. This thread is certainly supporting > that theory! > > I had a strange intro to them. Around 1980, I bought a > copy of "Trouser Press", a UK music magazine, and > there was a "keep an eye on these guys" section that > talked about Athens and the music scene there. Perhaps > it was how it was written, but I was expecting a very > intense, gothic Bauhaus/Xymox kind of thing and found > "Murmur" really turned me off! I suspect it was a case > of dashed expectations, but they never registered on > my radar after that. Did you know Xymox was/are [mainly] dutch? I remember at the time we were so proud to have a band signing with 4AD. Hasn't stand the test of time for me though... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:07:43 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? > >Stand up and be counted - has anyone here named children/dogs/cats/goldfish > > > >after members of Wire?? > > not yet. my friend's car does have a nice license plate though...IBTABA > > -paul c.d. YOU'RE KIDDING !?! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:22:47 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] guess who? Are you sure you're not English Bart ??? I think you watched the same 'Carry On' films as I did ; ) Keith >> Stand up and be counted - has anyone here named children/dogs/cats/goldfish > >after members of Wire?? >Or people who named their John Thomas Robert Gotobed! Bart > Rick: > > hmmm... I have a cat named 'Pogo', which I used to do > > while listening to Wire! > > > Erm... erm... you used to DO your cat named Pogo?! This list is getting > more interesting every day! > > Bart ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #168 *******************************