From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #162 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, May 23 2002 Volume 05 : Number 162 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms (very long, and half a mile off topic and accelerating) [giluz] [idealcopy] Elgaland-Vargaland ["Jan Noorda" ] [idealcopy] [OT]Andrew McKenzie ["Jan Noorda" ] [idealcopy] GILBERT STUFF ["DAVID HEALE" ] [idealcopy] BLURT/Bastard ["Cambra, Robert" ] Re: [idealcopy] Old Fart Alert!!! ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire-gig [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:45:10 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms (very long, and half a mile off topic and accelerating) on 21/05/02 16:00, Andrew Walkingshaw at andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 04:38:30PM +0200, giluz wrote: > > [indymedia/homogeneity] >> Not true, unless you're referring specifically to the UK branch. I'm active >> in the Israeli branch of Indymedia (www.indymedia.org.il) and a homogeneous >> image is the opposite of what we're trying to do - maybe it's because all >> other media in this country are so homogenous and centralistic, much more >> than most other democracies (certainly the UK). Indymedia Israel is a >> collection of voices, though they do all share some basic leftist-liberal >> axioms. > > Therefore, although you're all mature enough to be able to disagree with > each other, fundamentally your viewpoints are similar enough that *it > will be possible* to identify a core set of shared axioms - so other > media outlets will do this, and all of a sudden you're being treated as > one homogeneous entity whether you like it or not. > > This, I think, is the problem with the indymedia _concept_, at least in > the UK: it becomes an outlet for the radical/anarchist left, at least in > the US and the UK, and it's very easy to lose sight of the differences > in opinions in comparison to the overwhelming similarity - a bloc, > rather than the intended clearing house. > > Politically, however, the UK media *is* pretty diverse (there's no way > I'd characterise Britain as a police state or *anything* near, for the > avoidance of doubt: Blair's a control freak, but that's a rather > different phenomenon). I mistrust business far more than I mistrust > government, anyway: a democratic government has a vested interest in > keeping me happy so I'll vote for them next time round). Therefore, > moderate leftist/left-liberal viewpoints (social democracy, traditional > liberalism, etc) are well represented in both the tabloid and broadsheet > press. And maybe this is the main difference between the UK and Israeli Indymedia branches. Israeli society has always left some issues outside the discourse being conducted inside it, but if you try to translate those topics that are inside this discourse to a left-right equation you'll find that the radical right has far more relevance than the radical left (when I'm saying outside the discourse I mean that you can't even argue about these concepts). Racist ideologues that believe that the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is to transfer the Palestinians to neighbouring Arab states are ministers in the government. Religious hard-liners that aim for making Israel a religious state are also ministers, and have been for years, regardless of the party leading the coalition. Add to that the way the Israeli media is acting since the current Intifada and the atmosphere where any public figure who says anything against Israel's current behaviour in the occupied territories is banned and lynched in the media. In this context, the radical/anarchist left is the only group that deals with concepts outside the Israeli discourse. > (For the record, I'm a vague, woolly left-leaning liberal; centre-left > to left both economically and socially - I vote LibDem in the UK.) I don't see myself as a radical leftist - I would probably have voted liberal-democrats myself, but the Israeli equivalent of the liberal-democrat party now holds the only slightly left of centre position (labour's in centre-right and the Likud, our delightful equivalent of your Conservatives, take the incredibly hard task of being centre to extreme right). I find myself belonging to the radical left just because I'm questioning some Zionist axioms, which are not being questioned or even discussed in any other political group. Cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:11:28 +0200 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Elgaland-Vargaland There is a new release OUT NOW on Ash International called: X - 10th Anniversary of Elgaland-Vargaland[KREV] with exlusive tracks from Ryoji Ikeda, Jim O'Rourke, Fennesz, Sten Hanson Oren Ambarchi, BJ Nilsen, Mika Vainio, DJ Guacamole, People Like Us, Bigert&Bergstrom, John Duncan, AER, Chris Watson, Stephen Travis and GRAHAM LEWIS With these artists this is a must to me already _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:19:44 +0200 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT]Andrew McKenzie A very emotional message I received last week. I think everyone who likes or respect or whatever Touch, Ash, Die Stadt etc. should be, yes I don't know other word, be touched by this. Hello unto you. One of our founding fathers needs our help. "I have been diagnosed with Hepatitis B, which at the present time of writing is incurable. The treatment I need is unobtainable without money. Due to the machinations of the people I have worked for who will not recognise the state I am in, I'm forced to accept this situation, and make alternative arrangements. The prognosis is (death) 3 months from now. The end. How sad. Never mind. In order to attempt provide a modicum of support to my three children, I am offering my extensive h3o archive for sale. Any interested parties please email me as soon as as is convenient. in dulce jubilo /a - Andrew McKenzie (The Hafler Trio)" To this end, I am establishing the McKenzie Fund. In order to defray the costs of his interferon treatments and attendant therapy, please donate any money you possibly can to attn: McKenzie Fund box 1211 ventura ca 93002-1211 usa I shall work on establishing a European outlet for this fund so that concerned parties in that part of the world won't have to worry about money being lost through the mails. All donations are acknowledged in full upon receipt and a note to this extent shall be issued to you if you so wish. In addition to this, I shall be producing a benefit concert for Andrew at Royce Hall on the UCLA campus (with the kind assistance and support of David Sefton) in the coming weeks. I cannot at this point confirm who is on the bill but suffice to say it will be an evening of total surprise because the musicians I have invited haven't played out in several years. You'll know their names very well, I suspect... Future bulletins as events warrant - and thank you very very much in advance. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:24:01 +0100 From: "DAVID HEALE" Subject: [idealcopy] GILBERT STUFF STOP PRESS: 22.5.02 - The Independent -review Article:History of the 45rpm.single. Feature:"my first single"- NICKY CAMPBELL radio broadcaster:-"alone again" by- Gilbert o' Sullivan. end of news flash........ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:51:50 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] BLURT/Bastard I saw this item since I cruise ebay for Blurt (very silly thing to sell). Blurt were active in the very early 80s, maybe at their most active then? I first heard of them in late '81. At that time I set off to a gig Blurt and never got there . . . and in the middle 80's I was very excited to have actually shown up for a show--but the band had cancelled (very disappointing). This was all in San Francisco, so they must have done some extensive touring. A sax player I was performing with then, and still know, introduced me to Blurt. Just before I met him he had talked to Ted Milton after a gig; apparently all the jazz players my friend heard in his sound Milton had never heard of--a true self-taught original. - ----------------- Well, I don't hate "Bastard" I never got very excited by it when it came out and it became my least favorite Colin album. Previously my least favorite had been "Commercial Suicide," but I gave it a spin recently and really enjoyed it. Then I put on "It Seems" and my girlfriend, who thought CS was a wonderful album, thought IS wasn't so wonderful and hadn't dated so well. Maybe if I give "Bastard" a chance tonight I could have a similar experience and have no least-favorite from the Colin oeuvre? Cheers, Robert *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and all of its attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 22:38:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: GILBERT STUFF never mind that! anyone else see the man who SHOULD have sung 'alone again naturally' (moz of course) on totp2 tonite, with 'the more you ignore me...' from '94. always thought it was a great 45 and it still sounded great to me. and the lyrics - esp. the 'i bear more grudges than lonely high court judges' - - are vintage moz. and, perhaps, a bit of a premonition on steven patrick's behalf ! new album in the pipeline too... keith n.p. catch a fire - the wailers STOP PRESS: 22.5.02 - The Independent -review Article:History of the 45rpm.single. Feature:"my first single"- NICKY CAMPBELL radio broadcaster:-"alone again" by- Gilbert o' Sullivan. end of news flash........ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:44:12 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Old Fart Alert!!! Old Fart Alert!!! IC's Bowie fans may be pleased to hear that his new LP 'Heathen' gets an excellent review in Q - by David Quantick, who is usually a good gauge (and a really good writer IMO). Quantick reckons it's got Bowie's beefiest sound since 'Scary Monsters' (and like 'SM' it features, ahem, Pete Townshend. Unlike 'SM' Dave Grohl plays on it). Produced by the legendary Tony Visconti, 'Heathen' also has a few covers on it apparantly - inc. ones by Neil Young and the Pixie ('Cactus'). Single remixes will be by Air and Moby. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:17:42 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Old Fart Alert!!! on 23/05/02 00:44, Keith Astbury at keith.astbury10@virgin.net wrote: > IC's Bowie fans may be pleased to hear that his new LP 'Heathen' gets an > excellent review in Q Heard the single today and it SUCKS BIG TIME. Nothing in it that arouses any interest - it's just a boring song, sung awfully with that kind of pathos-filled Bowie vocals, with the same annoying Reeves Garbles guitar (great sound but too many notes) - I'm not even sure it's him but it definitely sounds like it. Could be another crap guitarist (maybe Bowie resurrected Peter Frampton again - who knows?). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 00:30:32 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Old Fart Alert!!! oh no. frampton's not coming alive again is he??? i know carlos alomar is on the album, but other than the guests (townshend and grohl) i don't know who's on gtr. i have a bit of a problem with reeves gabrel too. he can be really interesting and then, as you say, too many bloody notes. i did think that him and DB had parted ways though, so maybe it's not him. keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: giluz To: Keith Astbury ; ideal copy Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 1:17 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Old Fart Alert!!! > on 23/05/02 00:44, Keith Astbury at keith.astbury10@virgin.net wrote: > > > IC's Bowie fans may be pleased to hear that his new LP 'Heathen' gets an > > excellent review in Q > > Heard the single today and it SUCKS BIG TIME. Nothing in it that arouses any > interest - it's just a boring song, sung awfully with that kind of > pathos-filled Bowie vocals, with the same annoying Reeves Garbles guitar > (great sound but too many notes) - I'm not even sure it's him but it > definitely sounds like it. Could be another crap guitarist (maybe Bowie > resurrected Peter Frampton again - who knows?). > > giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] Bowie strategies and oblique references! Well, since Scary Monsters was the last Bowie album that I thought had anything interesting on it (with the sole exception of "Loving the Alien") I think I'll pick that one up used in a few months...or maybe not. On a somewhat related note. Went and saw Peter Murphy at the Fillmore in SF last night. His new album is a bit slow, but holy shit was he great! He is definitely at the top of his game and with an incredible band to boot! A connection to the opening paragraph was that the 3rd or 4th encore(!) was Peter and violinist Hugh Marsh in a stunning version of 'Space Oddity'! Now you need to understand that I am so sick of this song that I would turn off stereos, radios and unplug jukeboxes to not have to sit through that song again! Consider me converted! ~3R Productions second show is in coming up in August! More on that later, ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:42:53 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bowie strategies and oblique references! > Well, since Scary Monsters was the last Bowie album > that I thought had anything interesting on it (with > the sole exception of "Loving the Alien") I think I'll > pick that one up used in a few months...or maybe not. > I thought '...hours' was REALLY good. Bit slow - sounded very unremarkable first few listens - but a real grower. My fave overall DB LP since 'Sacry Monsters'. > On a somewhat related note. Went and saw Peter Murphy > at the Fillmore in SF last night. His new album is a > bit slow, but holy shit was he great! > the 3rd > or 4th encore(!) was Peter and violinist Hugh Marsh in > a stunning version of 'Space Oddity'! he's still doing Bowie numbers then ; ) I take it if it was just Murphy and a violinist he did something different with it. I always thought Bauhaus 'Ziggy'-by-numbers was disappointing, whereas their 'Telegram Sam' was - at the very least - imaginative and mental. I was never a major Bauhaus fan, though I liked the odd thing ('Kick in the Eye' in particular). I thought Murphy was really good on OGWT all those yrs ago though. I don't know whether you saw it or not, but they did the aforementioned 'Ziggy' and 'Spy in the Cab'. The latter was a great performance! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:11:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] OT - So OT it hurts! Wait! There's Wire songs there! So I made up my quarterly compilation album for my girlfriend and the track listing is: Perhaps a psychological profile...she's liked them all so far!! Medieaval Baebes - Ecci Mundi Gaudium - Waylaway - Erthe Upon Erthe The Church - Under the Milky Way Wench - Radio India Poe - Wild (radio remix) Peter Gabriel - White Shadow Robyn Hitchcock - More Than This 10cc - I'm Not in Love Wire - I Don't Understand - Agfers of Kodack Be Bop Deluxe - New Precision MDFMK - Hydroelectric Dukes of Stratosphear - Little Lighthouse XTC (live) - Living Through Another Cuba - Generals and Majors Sisters of Mercy - Lucretia, My Reflection Don Henley - Driving With Your Eyes Closed - Not Enough Love in the World ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 06:13:32 +0200 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire-gig Te geeek, That's good news. Wire gig in London at the 20th of July details to follow. A good reason to go to London once a year for the 5th time again. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:03:37 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire-gig ////awww shit , my brothers stag weekend in edinburgh on that date , flights booked , all sorted......can't win em all i guess. maybe its a warm up for their appearance on the bill with the pistols the following weekend? or maybe not. p >Te geeek, >That's good news. Wire gig in London at the 20th of July >details to follow. > >A good reason to go to London once a year for the 5th time again. > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #162 *******************************