From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #155 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, May 17 2002 Volume 05 : Number 155 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] More Mute ["John Roberts" ] [idealcopy] Swim [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Bastard [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Mute [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] Bastard ["r\)\(0\)\(m" ] Re: [idealcopy] Bastard [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Bastard [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Document and Eye Witness ["Peter Kirk (Blue Mountain)" ] AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing [Woerner Frank ] [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms (very long, and half a mile off topic and accelerating) [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] [idealcopy] No Wire Later [Tim ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:57:27 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] More Mute > > All I can say is if you want the Dome LPs....buy > > them now! I doubt Mutes > > 'No Deletion' policy is going to last. > >Yes, I reckon that ideal is now dead. I thought about this too. But then I remembered that EMI used to keep quite a bit of their back catalogue available including 7" singles. Whether they still do now I don't know. I can't get my head round Mute/EMI though. When their independent distributor, the Cartel/Rough Trade Distribution, went to the wall Mute were one of the record labels that was owed shed loads of money. I think I'm right in saying that instead of chasing up the money they were owed they actually wrote it off. Furthermore they actually helped the former employees of Rough Trade Distribution start up a new company, which was called RTM, to distribute Mute. Such was their aversion at the time to the overtures of several majors. I'd have thought with the state of EMI it would have been Mute buying them out tbh. John _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 04:15:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Swim All Swim reviews, except G-Man are at www.wireviews.com/wireviews/reviews However, briefly... > Cusp - Space & Time/Liquids & Metals - #3.85 Techno for the hard of hearing. Not bad. > Immersion - Oscillating - #3.85 Classic organic electronica. Get this at all costs. > Oracle - Tree - #3.85 Not bad, if a bit inconsistent. > Plastic Venus - Helver Park - #3.85 Awful for the most part. The best PV track is actually on Water Communications... > Malka Spigel - Hide - #3.20 For that price, it's worth it for the Returning Wheel cover alone. > Rosh Ballata - #3.85 A bit dated and iffy, but again, for that price, it might be worth it for Rosh Ballata, Yestiney and Hacol Zaram Beyachad. > V.A. - Water Communication - #4.45 2 CDs of rare and then-unreleased Swim. Unless you have a record player, this is the only place to get the excellent Cinnebar by R&C. Mind you, PE.com was selling this for a fiver the last time I looked. > G-Man - Kushti - #3.85 Dunno. Not heard it. > Ronnie & Clyde - In Glorious Black & Blue- #3.85 Recommended. > As well as Bastard - #4.45. Recommended, but then everyone on this list knows my opinion of this CD by now... Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.org News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 04:21:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Bastard http://www.soundhouse-music.co.uk/ > As well as Bastard - #4.45. BTW, this looks to be the 2CD version, which is OOP and not available elsewhere... C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.org News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 04:28:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Mute > I think Daniel Miller will continue to prove > himself a man of integrity and vision. I've no doubt that he'll try his best, but at the end of the day, Mute is now owned by a corporate entity that's in severe financial difficulty and inches away from going under, which makes this statement all the more weird: "it gives us a level of stability in funding and systems that we've never fully enjoyed in the past" Unless Mute was more-or-less bankrupt at the time of the deal, of course. Maybe the label is looking for funding as its bigger acts (Depeche Mode, etc) look like retiring soon. Who knows? Whether Daniel got the deal he wanted or not, I still reckon he'll be out of there within a year or two. These sorts of deals seldom end well... ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.org News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 06:30:56 -0500 From: "r\)\(0\)\(m" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bastard > http://www.soundhouse-music.co.uk/ > > > As well as Bastard - #4.45. > > BTW, this looks to be the 2CD version, which is OOP > and not available elsewhere... in which case it includes 4 of colin's favorite tracks [sarcasm] actually amongst mine tho <^_^> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:35:58 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bastard In a message dated 5/17/02 6:21:59 AM Central Daylight Time, wireviews@yahoo.com writes: > BTW, this looks to be the 2CD version, which is OOP > and not available elsewhere... > what's on the second cd?? RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:05:25 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bastard << what's on the second cd?? >> Voice 12in Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:23:40 +0100 From: "Peter Kirk (Blue Mountain)" Subject: [idealcopy] Document and Eye Witness Hi there, I am new on the list. Hello. I was wondering if someone could tell me what the 'Document and Eye Witness' event was that Wire were involved in, I read about it recently and it sounded interesting. It was described as infamous... All the best Peter - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 07/05/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:37:00 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Document and Eye Witness Hi Peter Hope you enjoy it here. Keith - ---- Original Message ----- From: Peter Kirk (Blue Mountain) To: Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 2:23 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Document and Eye Witness > Hi there, I am new on the list. Hello. > I was wondering if someone could tell me what the 'Document and Eye > Witness' event was that Wire were involved in, I read about it recently and > it sounded interesting. It was described as infamous... > All the best > Peter > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 07/05/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:53:15 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Independent Labels (SWIM) thanks keith for bringing this to our attention. ordered a few today, hope they've still got them in... keith n.p. roots manuva - run come save me - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Knight To: Idealcopy ; Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Independent Labels (SWIM) > On a similar subject Soundhouse (www.soundhouse-music.co.uk) are selling the > following swim items off cheap: > > Cusp - Space & Time/Liquids & Metals - #3.85 > Immersion - Oscillating - #3.85 > Oracle - Tree - #3.85 > Plastic Venus - Helver Park - #3.85 > Malka Spigel - Hide - #3.20 > Rosh Ballata - #3.85 > V.A. - Water Communication - #4.45 > G-Man - Kushti - #3.85 > Ronnie & Clyde - In Glorious Black & Blue- #3.85 > > As well as Bastard - #4.45. > > To my shame I don't know any of these, so do any of you have recommendations > (or do I have to fork out for all of them)? > > Freight charges by the way (at least UK - I'm working from a brochure rather > than the website) are 1-5 items #3.50, 6 or more #5.00, free over #75.00. > > David - they're even selling Black Widow's 'Sacrifice' for #10.25! I am > tempted... > > another the Keith > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 6:05 PM > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Independent Labels (SWIM) > > > > speaking of independent labels.....i just managed to find the following > Swim > > titles for $2.99 each ! > > > > Dol-lop - "Cryptic Audio Rag" > > Malka Spigel - "My Pet Fish" > > Colin Newman - "Bastard".......yes, i am going to purchase this again and > > give it another try!...I have not worked at the dance/IDM record shop in a > > couple of years now and maybe i'll hear it differently this time....all > the > > discussions about it (polite and otherwise) have made me think that i > should > > try again..besides, Read and Burn and Colin's tracks on the Swim > compilations > > have been playing non-stop on my cd player....if that isn't inspiration > > enough i don't know what is.... any thoughts on the other two > > cds?....Sometimes, it really is a blessing to live in a country (USA) > where > > most people like crap music..it's an even bigger blessing to live in an > area > > of the country (the mid-west) where people are REALLY clueless (especially > > shop keepers!) and i am able to find really good stuff cheaply! Some > people > > just don't know what they have! > > > > Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 11:06:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Document and Eye Witness << I was wondering if someone could tell me what the 'Document and Eye Witness' event was that Wire were involved in, I read about it recently and it sounded interesting. It was described as infamous... >> Hi Peter, Briefly... At the start of 1980, Wire had been dropped by EMI. Looking for a deal, they played a headline gig at the Electric Ballroom - though decided not to do the standard 'greatest hits' show.... Unfortunately at the Electric Ballroom the crowd was full of 'punk's not dead' types who wanted to hear Wire play Pink Flag material etc. What they got was an evening of new mterial, performance art etc - and a deranged version of 12XU to wind up the skinheads. No deals were forthcoming - and Wire concentrated on solo projects. They would not play together again for five and a half years. The gig was recorded, and issued by Rough Trade. Still available from Mute. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 11:59:59 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] radio tonight colin will be appearing on SBN internet radio tonight (The show's called "testing testing"). thru sky digibox or www.sbn.co.uk. worth a listen i should think........p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:22:48 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing > In a message dated 5/16/02 9:20:29 AM Central Daylight Time, > Frank.Woerner@erl.sbs.de writes: > > << FrankfromBavaria ... who always prefers "guitar" music to > "keyboard" music > >> > > > why?...does it really matter what music is made with? is that > really the > point?....don't get me wrong, i am not attacking your taste > in the least..i'm > just curious when someone says something like that..it's a > touchy subject > with me because i was attacked for years by people who said > things like: > "That ain't real music it's synthetic crap made with > keyboards!" Of course "real" music isn't identified by the instruments used but when a young person decides which intrument to use when starting making music its always an "attitude" thing. Lots of music today is done with computers and persons doing such music MUST be computer geeks (sort of thick glasses, pale skin, etc.). Thats a complete different way to just take a guitar, having two friends playing bass and drums and playin' right away. FfB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:20:08 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: RLynn9@aol.com [mailto:RLynn9@aol.com] > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Mdrz 2002 19:32 > An: keith.astbury10@virgin.net; hspencer@oup.co.uk; uri.b@virgin.net > Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org > Betreff: [idealcopy] Shoegazing > > > MY favorite "shoegazing" albums: > > My Bloody Valentine - Loveless > Ride - Nowhere > Slowdive - Souvlaki > Chapterhouse - Whirlpool > Lush - Spooky Sorry, I'm a little behind with reading ICL but there was a time in the early nineties when my interest for wire was rather weak but I listened a lot to "shoegazers". my favourite albums/groups: both revolver cds (cannot remember the titles but still like them) the pale fountains (I think this dates back to the eighties) the house of love (do they count as shoegazers) the bodines FrankfromBavaria ... who always prefers "guitar" music to "keyboard" music ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 23:15:33 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms (very long, and half a mile off topic and accelerating) On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 06:10:25PM +0100, Bill Hick wrote: > We can demand anything but any artists with an iota of conviction won't > listen! Which is as it should be, if they're creating art and not product; if you're not trying to say *something*, shut up and clear the stage for someone who is. I think the only thing I really object to in music is wilful lack of *intent* - mediocrity by design. Hell, if the Beach Boys meant it, so can any other pop act. They've got no excuse. > > > Ladies and gentlemen, its the new Joe Strummer! > > > > Not the last time I checked, no. I'm not in a garage band, and > > last time I was there, Edinburgh wasn't Garageland. > > So you must be Wattie from the Exploited then? At least you're not accusing me of being Jim Kerr. Small mercies, etc... ["youth culture"] > > I talk to my peers, strangely enough. > > But how many people is that? Oh, varies. Anywhere between twenty and a few hundred dependent on how you count, who you regard as peers, and other such... and of course, it depends on the *context* you talk to people in. > Are they a representative sample? Um. No. Not in the slightest. > What age are you anyway? 21. I'm a final-year undergrad university student, at Cambridge. (Cue class-war, rioting in the streets, and general "what the hell does he think he's talking about, he's at Cambridge therefore he must be rich/posh/a class traitor" bull.) I'm in a privileged position in many regards, but I'll freely admit it. [coherency] > You're probably onto something there. > > I don't think youth culture or any other kind of 'alternative' culture, > especially artistically speaking, really needs to be united or have > coherence. Coherence is another word for conformity is another step towards "will this do?" careerism. No, this will *not* do. Come back when you mean it. (This goes for my attitude to most things. If you're going to do something, you might as well put as much of yourself into it as you possibly can.) > In fact any striving towards this opens the door for Control to > rear its ugly head. Differences are the spice. There's so much cross > connecting in so many different and varied ways through so many different > avenues and strands of activity on local and international levels that any > attempts to control seem more and more futile. On one side, collaboration; on the other, duplication of effort. I'm a scientist. Guess which side of the divide I fall. Working together is meant, IM(L)E, to be about complementarity, not being part of a Xerox army. > Of course the futility of > Control cause it to squeeze harder but the more the iron fist tightens the > more slips through its fingers. Well, an obvious example of this in the record industry is Napster and children. Basically, it seems to me people perceive control and censorship as damage, and tend to find routes around them... > Any attempts to subvert authority should start by eliminating all Control > lines in ones own life. Dropping out is all well and good, but I'm not sure in today's society that it's possible to change things on a significant scale *without* understanding the system and being able to play it. I'm sure this is something Daniel Miller will have thought about with the EMI buyout of Mute; but it's not like there aren't good real-world examples (the progressive reverse-takeover of China by Hong-Kong) In terms of playing the system, in software there's an excellent real-world example of using copyright against itself, for example (and I'm not advocating the total abolition of copyright - but there need to be checks and balances): http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html which uses copyright to grant *additional* rights - the right to freely modify software - but only if you then allow other people the ability to use and modify *your* modifications. This not only works, it's produced the mailer and text editor I'm using, the OS that most of my research runs on, and many of the tools I use to do it. I've released software under this license myself - not as a political statement, but because that's how I feel the spirit of science (free reuse and extension) should be upheld. > > > Is it true that if the kids are united they will never (oi oi) be > > > divided? > > > > Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "nuclear families". > > The well behaved atoms. Low energy levels. There's always some atoms in elevated energy states in any population, though, and they're the ones who do all the *really* interesting stuff. > If things seem boring and nothing's happening then you have to go out and > make things happen. No good complaining about lack of any kind of culture > when there are myriad otions for creation open. I do my bit, as and when I get the chance; I'm not an imaginative enough musician to do anything there. [cutups: (aside: is Chris Morris the most subversive man in Britain? Who cares, he's funny *and mostly accurate*.)] > It might not seem to directly, but its a first step in cutting through > control mechanisms and finding out where control is hiding. > > Authority needs control or it ceases to authorise. Any action to cut control > lines is a positive one. I think my spin on this is a little different. Authoritarianism thrives on a lack of information: therefore the place to start is to seek (and become) a credible source of information yourself - or at least, as many biased viewpoints as possible, and then filter them through one's own cynicism. The Indymedia gang (with a publicity assist from Radiohead, who as a band were the first I ever got *seriously* into - but who I think are rather too naive about this issue, but at least they seem to care) are trying to do this sort of thing, but it's not working; all it takes is one outlier on their site to shatter the carefully created, homogeneous image. It's the homogeneity of image that they're carefully trying to build - a brand, essentially - which I think is their greatest weakness. They're trying to provide a _single brand for non-conformity_, which seems a contradiction in terms. If they succeed, all they are is another pressure group with an internally-conformist set of viewpoints; if they fail, they've just diluted any credibility they might have had by their failing. This is the tradeoff between structure and diversity, I guess: in order to shout loud enough to be heard, people have to band together - but in banding together, much of the vitality and diversity which *leads* to novel ideas is necessarily lost. (Aside:) One of the most revolutionary things that could happen is people starting to get an elementary grasp of statistics and probability (specifically conditional probability). That, in itself - the ability to at least basically assess risk, reward, and error margins - would make people much less manipulable by the media and politicians in general. > I don't think I'll ever try building a laser though! Nor would I. I use the things, though. > Even the style mag (Flux) which I write reviews for has become politicised > due to the encroaching police state. Style is expression: expression and conformity are natural enemies. Is this really such a surprise? > Does destruction ignite creation? Yes; and disorder always increases. People have this pretty image of science being a gradual accretion of knowledge, a pyramid. It's nothing of the sort: someone builds a theory, someone else comes along and demolishes it, and out of the rubble a new, better, stronger theory arises. It's a constant process of revolution and counter-revolution. > btw What are you studying? I'm a mineral scientist, of all things: due to impending university finals, I'm preparing at present for the inevitable questions on nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy. NMR is fundamentally a pretty simple technique: basically, it involves using extremely large magnetic fields to temporarily align the inherent magnetic dipoles in certain nuclei (notably 13-Carbon and 1-Hydrogen). By then observing the decay of the magnetic polarization thus induced, one can image the thing you've just magnetised. Doctors, unsurprisingly, were very interested in this technique, cause it allows non-invasive imaging of, say, the human brain. (This isn't close to what we use it for - we use it as a local probe of order/disorder in systems - but it's just a different mathematical treatment of the same data.) However, they found the public were very reticent to undergo this (non-invasive, non-painful, non-dangerous-unless-you-have-a-pacemaker) technique. Why? The word "nuclear" in the name. It's now known as "magnetic resonance imaging" in hospitals. Isn't spin wonderful? It's quite an interdisciplinary course, pulling in bits from earth sciences, materials science, chemistry and physics: I lean towards the more theoretical end of things (I'm starting a doctorate in solid-state quantum mechanics as they apply to disordered systems, essentially, in October), and one of the most prominent real-world uses of what we study is in designing radioactive waste containment systems. Now, *here* is an issue which the public is never informed of: and being aware of the state of the art, I can see why it's such a hot research topic... (For those fortunate enough to have access to the online research journals: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/296/5568/659?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&titleabstract=yucca+mountain&searchid=1021587125829_9869&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=10/1/1995&tdate=5/31/2002 is eye-opening reading). Andrew - -- "It's too close to home and too near the bone; too close to home and too near the bone, more than you'll ever know..." - The Smiths, "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" ('Meat is Murder') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:10:58 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] URGENT - Colin on digital radio in a few minutes... All, Just received a message from Colin - he's on Claire Kember's show on SBN (Testing Testing) this evening - which has just started (though he's not on it yet!) It's on www.sbn.co.uk and also broadcasts on Sky digital. He says..."I did it in wire capacity. Didn9t play anything you won9t know, just talked engaging bollocks about wire :)" Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:51:19 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms > I think the only thing I really object to in music is wilful lack of > *intent* - mediocrity by design. Hell, if the Beach Boys meant it, so > can any other pop act. They've got no excuse. as a beach boys fan myself, i have to admit that sometimes they meant it and...well sometimes i'm not so sure! (it would depend on how our bri was feeling and who had control at the time) keith > > > > Ladies and gentlemen, its the new Joe Strummer! > > > > > > Not the last time I checked, no. I'm not in a garage band, and > > > last time I was there, Edinburgh wasn't Garageland. > > > > So you must be Wattie from the Exploited then? > > At least you're not accusing me of being Jim Kerr. Small mercies, etc... > anyone else out there remember when the minds were good? (anyone remember when joe strummer was good for that matter? my, we have got long memories haven't we!!!) keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:59:19 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing > FfB... > Lots of music today is done with computers and persons doing such > music MUST be computer geeks (sort of thick glasses, pale skin, etc.). well there's nothing like a bit of stereotyping is there??? having said that it describes one half of the chemical brothers pretty well ; ) keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:42:19 -0500 From: "r)(0)(m" Subject: [idealcopy] Lapgazing the punks of today carry powerbooks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:43:09 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 07:51:19PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > > I think the only thing I really object to in music is wilful lack of > > *intent* - mediocrity by design. Hell, if the Beach Boys meant it, so > > can any other pop act. They've got no excuse. > > as a beach boys fan myself, i have to admit that sometimes they meant it > and...well sometimes i'm not so sure! (it would depend on how our bri was > feeling and who had control at the time) My theory of this is that there are two "Beach Boys": there's the Brian Wilson BBs ("Good Vibrations", "Pet Sounds" etc), and the surf-pop cover band, confusingly sharing the same name. I'm very much in the Wilson camp, as one might have guessed. :) Keith Astbury wrote: > Andrew Walkingshaw wrote: > > Bill Hick wrote: > > > So you must be Wattie from the Exploited then? > > > > At least you're not accusing me of being Jim Kerr. Small mercies, etc... > > > anyone else out there remember when the minds were good? > (anyone remember when joe strummer was good for that matter? my, we have got > long memories haven't we!!!) Joe Strummer: Hmm. I suppose "Sandinista!" is three months younger than I am, and it's approximately one and a half good albums, half an album of filler, and one album of experimental stuff that my opinion of varies with my mood. Were Simple Minds ever any good? By the time I could reliably recognise bands, they were well into their "Street-Fighting Years" stadium-rock phase... Andrew - -- "I call, and I collect; (So just strike him softly, away from the body..." - - Blur, "Trouble in the Message Centre" ('Parklife') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:43:03 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing In a message dated 5/17/02 1:53:45 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << FfB... > Lots of music today is done with computers and persons doing such > music MUST be computer geeks (sort of thick glasses, pale skin, etc.). well there's nothing like a bit of stereotyping is there??? having said that it describes one half of the chemical brothers pretty well ; ) keith >> and of course that sort of stereotyping can work two ways...it could also be said that most "axe" slinger rock-n-roll types can be mop-haired, unbathed, self-absorbed, whining (i.e. "oh poor me, my life sucks because i'm on the road all the time") ego-maniacal twats who are into music for all the wrong reasons...(fame, attention,money, cars, sex).....but who's into stereotypes anyway?? how's it goin' Keith?? RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:44:01 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing In a message dated 5/17/02 1:53:45 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << FfB... > Lots of music today is done with computers and persons doing such > music MUST be computer geeks (sort of thick glasses, pale skin, etc.). well there's nothing like a bit of stereotyping is there??? having said that it describes one half of the chemical brothers pretty well ; ) keith >> I guess you could throw Moby in there as well. RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:12:31 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing In a message dated 5/17/02 1:53:45 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << FfB... > Lots of music today is done with computers and persons doing such > music MUST be computer geeks (sort of thick glasses, pale skin, etc.). well there's nothing like a bit of stereotyping is there??? having said that it describes one half of the chemical brothers pretty well ; ) >> yeah but does he still have long hair?....see, he gets points for trying to look rock-ish but actually wearing the Proclaimers style geek-glasses....the juxtapositon is good! and it definately fits into their computer geek/phat hip-hop beatz collide with indie rock image....oh yeah and by the way, i liked them MUCH MUCH better when they were still called the Dust Brothers...they released some classic tracks and eps on Junior Boys Own label such as Song to the Siren, Dope Coil, Kling to Me i'll Klong to You, My Mercury Mouth, One Too Many Mornings etc....i was actually still clubbing when those came out and we used to go mental! especially when sandwiched in between Plastikman's "Spaz" and Underworld's "Rez" cracking nights out! to quote another Ideal Copyist (whose name escapes me): "Ah to be young again" RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:48:12 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing > << FfB... > > Lots of music today is done with computers and persons doing such > > music MUST be computer geeks (sort of thick glasses, pale skin, etc.). > > well there's nothing like a bit of stereotyping is there??? > having said that it describes one half of the chemical brothers pretty well > ; ) > keith >> > > and of course that sort of stereotyping can work two ways...it could also be > said that most "axe" slinger rock-n-roll types can be mop-haired, unbathed, > self-absorbed, whining (i.e. "oh poor me, my life sucks because i'm on the > road all the time") ego-maniacal twats who are into music for all the wrong > reasons...(fame, attention,money, cars, sex).....but who's into stereotypes > anyway?? how's it goin' Keith?? > > RL phew robert!!! i thought for one horrible moment you were calling me a "mop-haired, unbathed, self-absorbed, whining (i.e. "oh poor me, my life sucks because i'm on the road all the time") ego-maniacal twat who is into music for all the wrong reasons...(fame, attention,money, cars, sex)....." ; ) still i've been called worse things... keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:52:26 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing In a message dated 5/17/02 3:42:40 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << phew robert!!! i thought for one horrible moment you were calling me a "mop-haired, unbathed, self-absorbed, whining (i.e. "oh poor me, my life sucks because i'm on the road all the time") ego-maniacal twat who is into music for all the wrong reasons...(fame, attention,money, cars, sex)....." ; ) still i've been called worse things... keith >> Awww Keith....why would i do such i thing?...I don't even know what ya look like!..Besides, i have to save the name-calling for those who deserve it!....With the weekend now upon us i'd like to raise a glass and give a big shout out and cheers to the Ideal Copyists worldwide!!!! May you all have a good weekend!...I have a couple of football matches tonight (separate leagues, separate fields only an hour apart!) and in one of them i have to play goalkeeper because our regular is hurt! YIKES! I'd better have a few more drinks to bolster me courage! CHEEEEERS!!!! RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:05:07 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms Andrew said > My theory of this is that there are two "Beach Boys": there's the Brian > Wilson BBs ("Good Vibrations", "Pet Sounds" etc), and the surf-pop cover > band, confusingly sharing the same name. > > I'm very much in the Wilson camp, as one might have guessed. :) me too andrew, but to suggest that the b.b.'s with brian are great and b.b.'s without him are crap is to simplify matters too much. just have a listen to some of the songs dennis wrote - 'Cuddle Up' and 'Make It Good' (from 'Carl & the Passions: So Tough') and 'Forever' off 'Sunflower' are gorgeous pieces of music and equal almost anything that brian ever did. the word 'lush' never sounded so appropriate. and this from a manson-friendly wild child. and to say that 'pet sounds' is good and surf stuff is bad just isn't true. there's some GREAT moments on those early, seemingly naff albums (though admittedly some of the later stuff can be embarrassing). but if you want a beach boys simplification, here it is - there's only one thing wrong with the beach boys and his name is mike love! > Were Simple Minds ever any good? By the time I could reliably recognise > bands, they were well into their "Street-Fighting Years" stadium-rock > phase... yeah, simple minds were good - a long long time ago. 'empires & dance' and 'sons & fascination' were great albums. i even liked their mid-80's big pop hit 'don't you forget about me'. and then it all went very, very wrong. (feel free to add a few "very's" of your own!) Keith n.p. smog - knock knock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:23:07 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing > I have a couple of football matches tonight (separate > leagues, separate fields only an hour apart!) and in one of them i have to > play goalkeeper because our regular is hurt! YIKES! I'd better have a few > more drinks to bolster me courage! CHEEEEERS!!!! > > RL i'm sending you good goalkeeping luck from the u.k. robert (i'm not a goalie myself, but i come from a goalkeeping family - although i barely know them, my dad's cousin tony millington played in goal for wales and tony's brother grenville played for chester and wrexham) so don't let 'em past you!!! keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:43:38 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Misbehaving Atoms In a message dated 5/17/02 3:59:10 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << Were Simple Minds ever any good? By the time I could reliably recognise > bands, they were well into their "Street-Fighting Years" stadium-rock > phase... >> Oh NO!!!! This topic of discussion is sure to incur the wrath of Lord Umur...Prepare yourselves tribesmen...for the fury of the Lord of all that is cutting edge knows no bounds!....er...sorry i am a bit buzzed... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:44:17 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing In a message dated 5/17/02 4:17:11 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << i'm sending you good goalkeeping luck from the u.k. robert >> thanks and a hearty cheers to you Keith my friend! RL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:21:56 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing > i thought for one horrible moment you were calling me a "mop-haired, > unbathed, > self-absorbed, whining (i.e. "oh poor me, my life sucks because i'm on the > road all the time") ego-maniacal twat who is into music for all the wrong > reasons...(fame, attention,money, cars, sex)....." ; ) And WHERE do I sign, did you say? Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:56:49 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Shoegazing In a message dated 17/05/2002 22:17:11 GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > tony millington played in goal for wales I know that man.He surely at one stage in his career played for my home town of Peterborough United.Good keeper. Excellent.Now I have another famous person connection to add to my collection when I bore the pants off people. Nice one Keith. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:00:19 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] No Wire Later Current series of Later, the BBC show we've discussed quite a bit on this list, has just finished. And not suprisingly, there was no invitation for Wire to appear. But boy, did they need an injection of Wire Fire. This series of Later has followed a rather depressing formula: 1 US R&B act who replace the electronic drums and squiggles of their recorded work with polished session musos, backing singers, slap bass and guitar solos in order to prove their "authenticity"... 2. 'Living Legend' who is well past their best (i.e Elvis Costello, Eric Burdon :reggae version of 'Please Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood' anyone?) 3. An 'Alt-Country' act. (surely the single most uninviting musical genre ever?) 4. The f**king Strokes, or another one-trick novelty band who look/sound a bit like them (The Hives/Von Bondies). 5. Obligatory World Music act. 6. Damon Albarn's latest solo vanity project. The idea of 'Later' is great (5-6 acts of wildly different styles set up in a circle in a big studio taking it in turns to play a song). But the selection of acts has now become so boringly conservative it doesn't work. Everyone they have on seems to be going for the nostalgia kick, or the 'authenticity' kick. Later *should* be showcasing everything from Micro-House to Nu-Metal. Instead it showcases everything from Rythmn & Blues to er....R&B (not Read & Burn by the way). No sign of any other new music shows on UK domestic TV, other than some dreadful looking show on BBC Choice which has bands like The Sterephonics, Travis and Starsailor playing one other own songs....and then a cover version. Wow. Radical stuff. Last week I found myself drinking in a hotel bar with some Channel 4 researchers. I suggested they ought to bring back Snub TV or The Tube. They didn't know what the f**k I was talking about. I asked them what music they liked and they said 'Chilled Ibiza sounds and Vocal House'. F**k. _______________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #155 *******************************