From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #151 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, May 15 2002 Volume 05 : Number 151 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] bass, how low can you go? [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits [Nik ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits [fernando ] [idealcopy] (OT) Mute Cabbies - again... [Mr Grumpy ] Re: [idealcopy] Loudest gig [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] talk talk [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Later tonight [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] First gig [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] Quick review and a couple of bad obsessions! Some Wire!! [San] [idealcopy] Re: Mute Swallowed by Mr. Suits [Michael Flaherty ] Re: [idealcopy] First gig [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Mute swallowed by Mr Suits] [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Tablature ["bartvandamme@home" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:21:04 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] bass, how low can you go? on 10/05/02 23:39, Miles Goosens at outdoorminer@mindspring.com wrote: > Graeme said: >> >>>>> I do think, though, that Graham's bass had to pay the price. >> >> Germ ship has one of the most powerful bass lines of any Wire song. The > drinks >> are on Graham's bass! > > Damn straight, Graeme! True, but it's far less dominant and audible on the other 5 tracks. I've been hearing this on 3 different systems, all of them with a quite flat frequency response (one of which is a reference amp with reference monitors, so it is quite accurate). Maybe I'm still used to the sound of the 90's, where the low frequencies are heavily boosted. Maybe I'm listening to too much Malka & Colin stuff, where Malka's full & heavy bass sound is so massive, or maybe I'm just making it all up. Germ Ship is also the only track on R&B01 where the bass line is leading the song (obvious examples to other tracks like this, if you don't get my drift, are most of Stephen Hanley's Fall output), while on the other tracks it's the guitars that are dominant. on 10/05/02 23:08, Bill Hick at umur_ot@hotmail.com wrote: > There's a similar cut-up approach to recording on some Boredoms records, the > first track on Super AE and Super Roots 6 and the remixes on Super Roots 7 & > 8. Both bands have motorik momentum and achieve lift off in live settings and > recordings. Wire are more concise. Right, I also thought of Boredoms as the first (and maybe only) example, though I suspect that Boredoms use less editing, or maybe their editing is less electronic and more analogue in its nature (i.e. Boredoms tend to rely more on the actual live recordings and edit them just to make them [relatively] shorter or more comprehensive, while Wire do a sort of a reconstruction of the whole track when they edit and use the editing process as part of the composing process. This is, of course, a generalisation for both bands and only points at directions). Some of the tracks on Rovo, especially the drums editing are more concise and 'electronic'. Know any other artists that use similar methods? Giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:51:45 +0100 From: Nik Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits In message , ian.s. jackson writes >a smug Gooner writes... >>wonder what EMI will do with the >>more "left field" mute acts , i mean i hate to be cynical but i hope this >>isn't just to get the new moby lp. > >quit hatin', it probably is...mind you, the receipts should just cover the >Mariah Carey pay-off... Apparently #38m for ending her contract and #110m in redundancy payments - - see http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4377847,00.html (Wednesday March 20, 2002) - '1,800 jobs to go at EMI'. Another excellent article describing the trouble they were in last year can be found at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4380598,00.html (Sunday March 24, 2002) - 'The way the music died', from which I'm quoting a bit here: > 'Although not the only record company in trouble, EMI has become the posterboy for the crisis. The company went on a spending spree, paying top dollar for artists like The Rolling Stones, Janet Jackson and Mariah Carey to prepare the label for sale. When no buyer for the company materialised - let alone enough buyers for its records - the company began to disintegrate, resulting last week in the mass expulsion of management and workers, and the termination of 400 artist contracts. Yet EMI chairman Alain Levy's plans to resurrect the company - to have two or three big superstars and five or six second-tier stars - has not been greeted warmly. 'It is more of the same,' said Barney Hoskyns, editor of rocksbackpages.com, the online library of rock and roll.' > What I find puzzling is that so far, none of the articles relating to the acquisition of Mute contain any statements by Miller or anybody else at their supposed end of the deal. Wouldn't it be nice if the whole thing was a PR joke? After all, there's the new Moby product to promote ;) >NP (in me head...) - The Wurzels 'Brand New Combine Harvester' ;) > One step further: Financial Times at the Chelsea Flower Show @-->->--- Nik ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 04:31:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Mute swallowed by Mr Suits I think the phrase rhymes with 'clucking bell'. It hardly fills me with confidence that one of the world's biggest, but badly struggling labels, has bought one of the last big independents. What the hell was Daniel thinking (other than money, money, money?) As far as EMI goes, this is a no-brainer. Remember that the last Moby album took in around GBP 15m and Mute also has a few other big acts that make a fair wodge of cash, such as Depeche Mode. However, I'll be utterly amazed if this doesn't spell te end of the like of the Grey Area and the more esoteric Mute acts. When indie labels are bought by majors, they always die. I'm just glad Wire didn't join up with Mute again after this news... I very much doubt EMI would have welcomed the band back with open arms. Grrrrrr. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.org News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 14:20:13 +0200 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits At 0:43 Uhr +0100 14.05.2002, ian.s. jackson wrote: >a smug Gooner writes... >>wonder what EMI will do with the >>more "left field" mute acts , i mean i hate to be cynical but i >>hope this isn't just to get the new moby lp. >quit hatin', it probably is...mind you, the receipts should just >cover the Mariah Carey pay-off... A silly thing... but isn't the price for Mute less than the pay for Mariah to not record anymore (a wish, if the sentence ended there) for EMI? How screwed up are things, really? *sigh* - -fernando - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:54:14 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Later tonight Thank you, THANK you! what CAN you say! Thank you, THANK you! what CAN you do! [quiz: who said that?] Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com [Sorry, I'm a bit late here...SO many mails lately! BTW, how did the matches turn out Robert?] Keith > i seem to recall you were made an honoury member though ; ) Robert L.: > Well, Bart...The Tossers Society need to expand so you are the official head > of the Dutch branch.....Now we have offices in the USA, the UK, and the > Netherlands....don't we have a Tosser correspondent in Israel? Giluz? > wish me luck tonight..I have two championship games in two different indoor > football leagues! I am of course playing for the honor of Tossers Worldwide! Alistair: > Didn't realise you could pick up > the 'good old' beeb over there mate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:01:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Grumpy Subject: [idealcopy] (OT) Mute Cabbies - again... Just saw this at Mute: Richard H. Kirk, formerly of Cabaret Voltaire, will be playing an ambient show on 24th May as a special guest at a Simian curated evening at St Peter's Heritage Centre, Vauxhall. The Grey Area of Mute will be releasing a Cabaret Voltaire Best Of and box set of unreleased and rare material in early autumn. Hmmm, another compilation and box set??? Maybe someone could put out a decent reissue of 'Code' while they are at it! Billy (Still upset about this whole thing!) LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 19:01:37 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Loudest gig Allready told of the '91 Valentine gig [dopple with Curve] where they played so fucking loud they blew the PA to bits... gad, sometimes I can it still hear it resonating in my lower cortex... this was really mean! Cheers... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 19:07:08 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk >> I agree with both Keiths here and if that's a Keith thing than let me be >> known as... >> >> another the other Keith >> > no, no, no bart...you've got the best name on the site as far as i'm > concerned. > we should all become another the bart's... Well, people aren't really queueing up, now do they, Keith? ;-) > changing the subject, i had a phone call last night from my19yr old son, > who's on his gap year travels. 'i bought a wire album in aukland' he said. > 'the one with '12XU' on it' (clarified it was 'pink flag' and not a > compilation). apparently it cost about 3 nz dollars which he said was about > 90p in uk money. bargain... > > keith Bargain indeed! [and you raised your son well] Cheers... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:09:56 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Later tonight In a message dated 5/14/02 11:55:19 AM Central Daylight Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: << Sorry, I'm a bit late here...SO many mails lately! BTW, how did the matches turn out Robert?] >> in the rec league we lost 5-4..but in the competitive league we won the championship 5-3..i had an assist on the game-tieing goal and then scored the 4th and 5th goals...it was great! especially since we were playing a hated rival...thanks for asking! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 19:19:07 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First gig >> I believe it was 1978. Ian Dury at the Concertgebouw in the Hague - a very >> posh concertbuilding keith: > is that the concertgebouw mentioned in a paul mccartney/wings song (entitled > 'rock show' off the pretty dire 'venus & mars' if i recall correctly) that > went something like: > > 'there's a rock show at the concertgebouw > they've got rock'n'roll at the hollywood bowl > they know how to give at the buckley tiv' > > (ok i made the last line up...even so it's not exactly 'hey jude' is it. > still i always wondered where the concertgebouw was) Hmmm, I don't know the song, but it could be true I guess... Mind you, concertgebouw is just dutch voor concerthall, but in this case it's also called that way: "the Royal Concertgebouw" How conveniant! >> [well before that I've been dragged to bands such as Camel, but they never >> made an impact and I don't remember anything of it] > > did you know camel leader pete barden died recently? No, I did not. [but then again I didn't know any of their names] A rock 'n roll suicide, was it? ]:-) Cheers... Bart [who just saw a re-run of the Pete Burns NMT-Buzzcocks - scaaaary stuff!] bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:33:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] Quick review and a couple of bad obsessions! Some Wire!! So I did head up to Amoeba's in SF for the Cranes instore. They were OK, they only played about 4 songs, which actually went as about as long as their soundcheck! I remember them as being kind of 'Cocteau Twins' like, but they were alot less interesting! On the other hand, I was able to find parking withing 2 block in under 20 minutes!! That is a new record for me in the upper Haight district!! Anther cool deal was their used Wire section, which had: Drill - $4.95 In Esse - $4.95 (two copies at $4.95) Manscape - $7.95 (two) Ideal Copy - price? Insiding - $6.95 Turns and Strokes Coatings Music for Fruit And several more that I can't recall exactly. All in all about 25 albums! No '70's though, interestingly enough! Picked up 'In Esse' Which is quite jarring! And found an out of print "Best of Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians" for $7.95 that I've been looking for. Mainly for the covers of "More Than This" and "Eight Miles High". > > NP (in me head...) - The Wurzels 'Brand New > Combine Harvester' ;) > > you poor thing! now if that gets stuck in MY head > today... I may not get the word right, but I seem to recall in german the word "ohrworms" or 'Ear Worms' describes a song or phrase that gets stuck in your head! Kind of a creepy image! Mine have been the theme song for 'Twin Peaks' as I've been watching the first season DVD's alot. And after listening to R&B lately I have a strangely altered version of the B-52's singing 'Love Shack' with 'Germ Ship' substituted in! Kind of funny to 'hear' Fred Schneider's "Germ Ship Bay-Beeee!!" Stay Ideal you kooky copyists!! ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:03:08 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Mute Swallowed by Mr. Suits >From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits > >In a message dated 13/05/02 16:38:41 GMT Daylight Time, hspencer@oup.co.uk >writes: > > >> EMI ACQUIRES MUTE >> >////so the wire back catalogue ends up on EMI. woah ; we might get that >decent box set yet ! > >er , only kidding. that's really sad news. ivo sold out 4ad a couple of years >back apparently , so they've all gone now. wonder what EMI will do with the >more "left field" mute acts , i mean i hate to be cynical but i hope this >isn't just to get the new moby lp. Probably. If that sells millions, then EMI is unlikely to care how many units the new Bruce Gilbert (or whatever) sells. Otherwise .... It would be interesting to know just how much control Daniel M. has maintained. To be fair to D. M. (one third of Duet Emmo, after all!) ... it's easy to turn down tens of millions when they're offered to someone else. ;) None of which makes me any happier about this than the rest of you... Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:21:13 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First gig > >> [well before that I've been dragged to bands such as Camel, but they never > >> made an impact and I don't remember anything of it] > > > > did you know camel leader pete barden died recently? > > No, I did not. [but then again I didn't know any of their names] > A rock 'n roll suicide, was it? ]:-) > Bart no. it was after illness apparently bart. whilst on the morbid subject, i didn't know until the weekend that director billy wilder had died recently. (admittedly he was a good age - 96!) he was probably my fave director - 'sunset boulevarde' (my fave film along with 'arsenic & old lace'), 'stalag 17', 'some like it hot', 'the apartment', 'double indemnity', 'seven year itch'... the man was a genius. keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 17:04:39 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First gig In a message dated 14/05/2002 21:15:32 GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > he was probably my fave director - 'sunset boulevarde' (my fave film along > with 'arsenic & old lace'), 'stalag 17', 'some like it hot', 'the > apartment', 'double indemnity', 'seven year itch'... > > the man was a genius. > > keith > You forgot his absolute black classic Keith. "Ace in the Hole" with Kirk Douglas. Chilling America.Still is I would imagine. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 23:53:44 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mute swallowed by Mr Suits] On Tue, May 14, 2002 at 04:31:01AM -0700, Wireviews wrote: > > I'm just glad Wire didn't join up with Mute again > after this news... I very much doubt EMI would have > welcomed the band back with open arms. > > Grrrrrr. Grr indeed. :( I'm trying to think of "significant" independent labels that are left, in terms of "having bands signed who I like": there's PIAS/Southpaw (Mogwai), Chemikal Underground (Delgados etc), Mantra (Six by Seven), and obviously Warp/Skam (Boards of Canada / Aphex / Squarepusher etc). But ... probably the largest indie in the UK are Jive, who are _de facto_ Pete Waterman's label, as I remember it. Andrew - -- "While you make pretty speeches, I'm being cut to shreds." - - Radiohead, "Like Spinning Plates" ('I Might Be Wrong: Live Recordings') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 23:45:33 EDT From: Rain19c@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] New Review of "Read & Burn" from www.allmusic.com: With the 1990 departure of Robert Gotobed (now Robert Grey), Wire ceased to exist, becoming the trio WIR. A decade later, however, the unpredictable foursome reunited for a series of concerts. Playing together again, the bandmembers realized Wire still had something to say. Tracks from 1999 rehearsals appeared on The Third Day, but the band began recording completely new material in late 2001. That first studio collaboration since Manscape resulted in Read & Burn 01. It's appropriate that this release from British punk's most innovative band should coincide with punk's Silver Jubilee. But although Read & Burn 01 evokes the taut and abrasive, pared-down rush of Pink Flag b before the more experimental departures of Chairs Missing and 154 b this isn't empty nostalgia. On the vintage foundation of simple, minimal patterns repeated to often-hypnotic effect, Wire builds a beefed-up, contemporary wall of sound. In keeping with the title, this material is urgent and intense, feelings conveyed by the music's sheer pace. The three-chord wonder "In the Art of Stopping" kicks things off frantically and the band goes into overdrive on the deconstructed speed metal/hardcore onslaught of "Comet," with Grey's characteristically relentless, rigid beat at the center of the sonic maelstrom; aside from Colin Newman's trademark sneer, this could be an outtake from Motorhead's Overkill. Although there's a respite on the shouty "I Don't Understand," with its ominous, lumbering groove recalling "Lowdown," elsewhere Wire sustains the amphetamine pace. They end with a bang on "The Agfers of Kodack," an assaultive number enveloped in Bruce Gilbert's swarm-of-bees guitar. During a 1977 Wire gig at London's Roxy, a heckler shouted at the band after every number, "That's better, now louder and faster." Read & Burn 01 suggests that 25 years later, Wire might still be hearing that voice egging them on. b Wilson Neate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 22:32:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mute swallowed by Mr Suits] All this talk about EMI digesting Mute made me think the following: I'm finding that the current state of mainstream music and the larger record companies is very reminiscent of the pre-punk '70's. Wheelbarrows of money were going to the likes of the Eagles, Elton John and Fleetwood Mac, while groups like Ultravox, Bauhaus, and...Wire were pretty much left to fend for themselves. The result was a huge group of small independent labels where groups released their own (and their friend's) albums. I've been noticing a quiet increase in the number of musician-owned labels like DGM, FWD, and Subconscious, and Posteverything. Hopefully this augers well for the future (which is looking pretty dim right now!). Now if we can just get those f***ing dinosaurs to let go of the rights to the albums they WON'T release! Between Adrian Belew, the Bears and Skinny Puppy, I'm ready to swear off Sony-related albums for good! Out of curiosity, any morbid types on the list want to start a betting pool on which albums make the EMI cut? I read that they released 400 (!) artists already while paying Mariah F-ing Carey millions that she didn't earn! Sick shit, if you'll pardon ma francais! NP: Tom Waits - Alice Wire - R&B01 Poe - Haunted Tom Waits - Blood Money Garbage - 1st NR: Russell Banks - Rule of the Bone ND: Fosters Bitter LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:22:30 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Quick review and a couple of bad obsessions! Some Wire!! > So I did head up to Amoeba's in SF for the Cranes > instore. They were OK, they only played about 4 songs, > which actually went as about as long as their > soundcheck! I remember them as being kind of 'Cocteau > Twins' like, but they were alot less interesting! I quite agree with that. "Loved" is about the only Cranes album I can appreciate. Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:37:33 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT wilder @ heart Yeah Keith, I heard he passed away recently. Watching his movies carefully you can find he was a very subtile critic of his times. Though not my favourite [mine must be Kubrick/Lynch/Greenaway/Pasolini] he was a genius indeed! Hollywood sure was much more interesting in those days... Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl > whilst on the morbid subject, i didn't know until the weekend that director > billy wilder had died recently. (admittedly he was a good age - 96!) > he was probably my fave director - 'sunset boulevarde' (my fave film along > with 'arsenic & old lace'), 'stalag 17', 'some like it hot', 'the > apartment', 'double indemnity', 'seven year itch'... > the man was a genius. > keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 23:41:29 -0700 From: Mark Subject: [idealcopy] Tablature Hello, I'm new to the list, and am looking for sites or people who might have some tablature for early Wire stuff... Thanks, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:09:54 +0200 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Tablature Welcome to the club [another the] Mark, You might take at look at: http://www.wireviews.com/wireviews/info/lyrics/index.html http://www.wholenote.com/tab/artist.asp?i=3152 http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty/wire/albums/pinkflag.html Cheers, Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl > Hello, > > I'm new to the list, and am looking for sites or people who > might have some tablature for early Wire stuff... > > Thanks, > Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #151 *******************************