From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #149 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, May 13 2002 Volume 05 : Number 149 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: Peel/B video [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] Re: Karkowski [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] Riff Meet Aphorism ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] A Camp Wound ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Don't Pat Smith ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Vox Pop ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Kibosh Big Black Fucking Guru ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Nurse! The Wound! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] The Snakes [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits ["ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Peel/B video >He always used to refer to daytime Radio1 jock Andy Peebles as "Andy >Pubes".... a most appropriate choice of name. He used to send out autographed photos of Peebles as prizes for listeners too. Not a shining beacon of male pulchritude as I remember, was Peebles. Peel's other great indiscretion was revealing that neither Noel Edmonds nor DLT owned a record player. Top top 40 moment - Peeder Powell saying, with heavy distaste, `and at number 37 there is a record by a band called the Dead Kennedys'. Funny that he didn't mention the title, still less play it. >The B video was actually broacast at the time on The Old Grey Whistle Test.... >Nearly fell off me chair at the time when it came on! Also, as I've mentioned before, shown on Multi Coloured Swap Shop with Noel Edmonds. May have caused some to fall out of their high chairs. It certainly had a strong effect on one callow 14 year old, who has never been quite the same since. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:27:26 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits I get the digest, so you may all be buzzing about this already - if so, my apologies. Taken from the yahoo idm list. I suppose I shouldn't take things like this personally, but this has the definite feel of a kick in the teeth. Howard - ---- EMI ACQUIRES MUTE 10th May 2002 LONDON, 10 MAY 2002 -- EMI Recorded Music has acquired Mute, one of Europe's leading independent record companies, extending an existing licensing relationship that Mute has had with EMI's Virgin Records for over 15 years. Founded in London in 1978 by Daniel Miller, Mute has consistently been at the forefront of artist development with an artist roster that includes Moby and Depeche Mode - whose last albums sold 8 million and 2 million each respectively - Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds and Goldfrapp. The acquisition includes Mute's catalogue and its operations in the UK, US and Germany. Miller, executive chairman of Mute, will continue to be responsible for all of the company's global activities. Commenting on the agreement, Alain Levy, EMI Recorded Music's chairman and CEO said: "It's a great sign of confidence that Daniel Miller has decided to associate his future with EMI. Daniel is one of the most respected finders and nurturers of talent in the industry and we're incredibly proud to be strengthening the relationship." The new agreement was initiated by EMI Recorded Music's chairman and CEO of Continental Europe, Emmanuel de Buretel. He said: "This deal is a natural progression of our relationship with Mute. I believe in the independent sector. It provides the business with an immense wealth of new talent. It's a source of new musical trends and an integral part of the industry's future." EMI will pay #23 million for Mute, plus up to #19 million of potential performance-related payments, over a period of four years. -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 11:48:37 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits In a message dated 5/13/02 10:38:41 AM Central Daylight Time, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: << EMI ACQUIRES MUTE >> ugh..... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:53:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Grumpy Subject: [idealcopy] Mute swallowed by Mr Suits This is kinda like when EMI bought Virgin, but ten times worse. I feel betrayed... Billy - --- Howard Spencer wrote: > I get the digest, so you may all be buzzing about > this already - if so, > my apologies. Taken from the yahoo idm list. > > I suppose I shouldn't take things like this > personally, but this has the > definite feel of a kick in the teeth. > > Howard > ---- > > EMI ACQUIRES MUTE > > 10th May 2002 > > > LONDON, 10 MAY 2002 -- EMI Recorded Music has > acquired Mute, one of > Europe's > leading independent record companies, extending an > existing licensing > relationship that Mute has had with EMI's Virgin > Records for over 15 > years. > > Founded in London in 1978 by Daniel Miller, Mute > has consistently > been at > the forefront of artist development with an artist > roster that > includes Moby > and Depeche Mode - whose last albums sold 8 million > and 2 million each > respectively - Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds and > Goldfrapp. The > acquisition > includes Mute's catalogue and its operations in the > UK, US and > Germany. > > Miller, executive chairman of Mute, will continue > to be responsible > for all > of the company's global activities. > > Commenting on the agreement, Alain Levy, EMI > Recorded Music's > chairman and > CEO said: "It's a great sign of confidence that > Daniel Miller has > decided to > associate his future with EMI. Daniel is one of the > most respected > finders > and nurturers of talent in the industry and we're > incredibly proud to > be > strengthening the relationship." > > The new agreement was initiated by EMI Recorded > Music's chairman and > CEO of > Continental Europe, Emmanuel de Buretel. He said: > "This deal is a > natural > progression of our relationship with Mute. I > believe in the > independent > sector. It provides the business with an immense > wealth of new talent. > It's a source of new musical trends and an integral > part of the > industry's > future." > > EMI will pay #23 million for Mute, plus up to #19 > million of > potential > performance-related payments, over a period of four > years. > -- ===== /\/\/\ { . . } /\ -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 12:54:00 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Karkowski >Zbigniew Karkowski sounded like a good laugh. He's been quite prolific >recording wise, but my pick of those I've heard would be the MAZK >collaboration with Masami Akita on OR. I've considered getting the latter. So far, my experience w/ his recorded music has been so-so. Interesting, but rarely captivating. This includes a plain white cd I bought from him which includes a track by PITA. A cool thing to have, I suppose, but I didn't play it much ... should probably try again soon. What I really want from Karkowski is the disc he recorded w/ Kasper Toeplitz. I have had it on order for quite some time (from a dependable source) w/ no luck. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:34:16 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Riff Meet Aphorism Robert hated it >>>Personally i hated "Bastard" and thought it was a really lame stab at the current trends in "dance" music.... The only substandard track on Bastard which succumbs to sounding too much like something else is 'G-Deep'. Colin was going to leave it off the album, but Gez Varley (g_Man) convinced him to use it. So one reference point didn't mind being referenced. I don't think any of it sounds like Roni Size, and even if that was their intention, Colin & Malka came up with something a bit more substantial. If you really think anyone else but Colin could've riffed 'Spaced In' (which he later spoiled with unnecessary vocals) and 'The Orange House and the Blue House' (coincidentally a male / female theme explored by an early Coum performance) please advise us who it is! The line 'Who's the bastard?' from 1st Fast could be read as a reference to Swim studio and cut up recordings and the journey that Bastard is a part of. That song does have a similar feel to bastard, but also to Drill, 12XU, Surgeon's Girl. I'd actually prefer to hear 1st Fast without the vocals. Ultimately for me the weakest aspect of RnB01 is Colins' vocal for that track until the silly multi tracked outro. Maybe Comet would work better for me if after the first drum break it cut to the guitar solo. No point in complaining I have a computer and can edit it myself! Riff meet aphorism. Small Fast Comet. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Coil - Lost Rivers of London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:08:09 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] A Camp Wound Mirk of Burma >>>There was always an element of high camp about that whole PTV/Current 93/Nurse with wound/Death in June/Coil/Whitehouse set. That whole nazi/serial killer/religious cult tip lends itself to high campery. Wore very thin after a while... Perhaps this is why some of those mentioned above left it behind ages ago? It might also be salient to note that Coil, Chris & Cosey, David Tibet and Steven Stapleton remain on friendly terms but have had nothing to do with Orridge for years. Orridge's failed attempt to resurrect TG minus CFT, CC & PC probably has a lot to with that. Could the fact that the core of Coil are a gay couple have more to do with any campery there than nazi shtick? It would be a big mistake to assume that Coil or Nurse With Wound succumb to style over content problems. NWW in particular make more sense in the context of "Krautrock" influence & electro-acoustic music than as a footnote to Throbbing Gristle and any perceived industrial scene. Coil have made some of the most interesting rhythmic / drone computer / synth music in recent years. Coil have travelled so far beyond what TG started its a whole new universe! Coil & NWW have gone from strength to strength musically and in recent years have surpassed themselves again and again. Today, lumping them in with an old scene that you grew bored with is at worst patronising or at best ignorant. Coil excerpts can be sampled here www.brainwashed.com/coil Nurse With Wound www.brainwashed.com/nww However particularly with NWW the albums are much better heard in their entirety. 1 min fragments don't let on to the evolution and mutation of some of the longer tracks. If you want more knowledge of that which you dismiss, check out the following recordings... Nurse With Wound - An Awkward Pause Nurse With Wound - Thunder Perfect Mind Nurse With Wound - The Man With The Woman Face Coil - Astral Disaster Coil - Music to Play in the Dark 2 Coil - Unnatural History 2 & 3 It'll be much more worthwhile than umpteen mouldy old Jam collections! William S. Burroughs suggested: what we see is determined to a large extent by what we hear you can verify this proposition by a simple experiment turn off the soundtrack of your television set and substitute an arbitrary soundtrack prerecorded on your tape recorder street sounds music conversations recordings of other television programs you will find that the arbitrary soundtrack seems to be appropriate and is in fact determining your interpretation of the film track on screen (*The Invisible Generation*) NP Wire - The Third Day ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:08:45 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Don't Pat Smith I heard Shellac are personally footing the travel costs of all the bands at ATP. Surely you should have booked more English Bands? If there were more good ones, we might have. Great to see the Fall on the bill. Are you a fan of their more recent Stuff or is it a case of acknowledging an inspiration? Genius demonstrates itself in many ways. The Fall have proven that they are interesting in any of their permutations, and I can't wait to see what they do. I will be especially thrilled if it is something I didn't expect. Also, are you anxious of meeting Mark E Smith - I met him recently and within seconds of being introduced, he had drunkenly accused me of stealing his wallet... You shouldn't have patted him on the ass. Full interview w/ Steve Albini here: http://www.ballroomfavourites.com/cgi/articles/articles.cgi?a=32&t=template.h tm NP Melt Banana - Neat Neat Neat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:42:57 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Vox Pop Robert Lynn cried for oldies >>>i have always been saddened by the cancellation of a compilation of Colin tracks from WMO (i believe it was to be titled Vox Pop?) Colin wasn't happy about the poor recording quality of some of the earlier demos mooted for inclusion and wanted to rerecord them, but then lost interest in doing so. These tracks actually weren't very good - there's a reason they never got further than demo stage. More interesting was that the bulk of Vox Pop would have been from an abandoned follow up to It Seems, which followed a similar style and refined it. I think Colin felt that this material had dated somewhat and wasn't happy about it being released, although unlike the earlier material there's no problem with poor sound quality. Colin might just be a little busy with Wire now to even think about Vox Pop. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Colin Newman - May ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:08:29 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Kibosh Big Black Fucking Guru Paul found mouldy old words >>>colin newman putting a kibosh on a wire reunion because his fucking guru told him to leave music forever. As John said, this text also appears on the cover of the Big Black unofficial live LP 'Sound of Impact.' It's just Albini's way of referring to Colin going on his trip to India and appears to be written in caustic humour, perhaps ignorance? According to Colin in the History book, Graham called Colin in 1983 to ask if he'd be interested in reactivating Wire. Colin had already planned his trip to India so asked if they could wait a year until he returned. No mention of this mysterious Fucking Guru and his kibosh. Anyway, Vien to RnB01 disprove any notion of Wire 'going soft' and Wire at ATP (curated by Shellac) would certainly imply that Albini is humble enough to eat his words and admit he's wrong if anyone cared. The fact that Wire recorded with him implies that Colin isn't all that bothered. Remember back then we didn't have the internet to allow us to find out Gilbert O'Sullivan's every bowel movement and it was perhaps more forgivable to talk a lot of rot in print! If hardness is a legitimate factor by which to rate bands, the only ones at ATP who could slug it out with Wire would be Shellac, Melt Banana, Zeni Geva, Mission of Burma & Oxes. Melt Banana would probably win as they'd get a lot of punch in places others couldn't reach, but Zeni Geva might take it on sheer brute force. Shellac have some tricky moves though, and Mission of Burma were thought to be the loudest by some. Paul pondered >>>i wonder what albini's take on 80s wire is. was it "going home and sucking" or "making a trip to the extreme"? It would be silly to describe 80s Wire as either. The only 80s Wire song I could really think of as extreme on any level is Gilbert's unique guitar & the mix on Feed Me, which is also a masterpiece. Unless you pedantically include D&E & 2nd Length as 80s Wire. Could monorhythmic repetition be thought of as an extreme? Steve A wrote kind words about Wire live in the 80s at some festival in Europe in the Big Black tour diary from FE which can be found online somewhere. Its a good job Wire were deemed 'still vital' as the Mission were derided and the story was told of three Chicago guitarists pissing on goth amps. Maybe, like Steve's heroin ratings, this could be taken with a pinch of salt? Although that's not to suggest that Big Black micturitions are too low in chlorides, unless they'd been playing at kidney bingos? Maybe the Fucking Guru suggested that Colin use the name DJ Fuckoff? The wisdom of Colin's Fucking Guru is best left a secret between Colin and Malka! John recalled >>>He also mentions a list of bands he likes, which includes Skrewdriver for some reason. Because he was able to enjoy their music without being bothered by their retarded political posturing. He felt they delivered their stupidity with conviction. He also later opined that obvious nth rate Nirvana plagiarists Bush did what they did with conviction, so not much of a recommendation perhaps? If anyone needs Steve Albini to tell them what to listen to the line up for ATP would be a better starting point, and perhaps would make a more relevant topic for discussion in that it relates to music happening today. (Nothing Here Now But The Recordings) *Fascist Erased (What Does Death Need Time For?) >>>At this time Messrs Lewis and Gilbert joined Big Black on stage at the Clarendon so they evidently took it on the chin. However it got left off the 'Pigpile' LP for allegedly being a mess, but sounds great on the video. As I've said many times before Big Black's version of "Heartbeat" is one of the few Wire covers I consider to transcend mere novelty value. Bruce described playing with Big Black as a nerve wracking experience. >>>Mind you, no Mr Newman. Maybe he wasn't invited? Too busy having fun with his Fucking Guru. Steve had his own Fucking Guru to suggest that he write "Songs About Fucking." Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine WS Burroughs: "What are you all here for?" NP The Horrible Truth About Burma ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:37:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Grumpy Subject: [idealcopy] Mute swallowed by Mr Suits MORE INFO Here's all I could find today: http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3225T721D I'll check with billboard.com for more news... ===== /\/\/\ { . . } /\ -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:29:06 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Camp Wound In a message dated 5/13/02 1:17:00 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: << If you want more knowledge of that which you dismiss, check out the following recordings... Nurse With Wound - An Awkward Pause Nurse With Wound - Thunder Perfect Mind Nurse With Wound - The Man With The Woman Face Coil - Astral Disaster Coil - Music to Play in the Dark 2 Coil - Unnatural History 2 & 3 >> What about Musick to Play in the Dark 1 ? RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:33:00 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vox Pop In a message dated 5/13/02 1:20:15 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: << Robert Lynn cried for oldies>>>>> "cried" ? ....hmmmm...nah, i was just lamenting that it would have been nice... thankfully, you set me straight with info straight from Colin's mouth about why he didn't release it... Colin might just be a little busy with Wire now to even think about Vox Pop.>>>> of course....and this is a good thing NP Colin Newman - May >>> what is this? RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:38:08 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Kibosh Big Black Fucking Guru In a message dated 5/13/02 1:20:37 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: << Remember back then we didn't have the internet to allow us to find out Gilbert O'Sullivan's every bowel movement and it was perhaps more forgivable to talk a lot of rot in print! >> yes, and now we do have the internet to tell us all we need to know...or if that fails we have graeme.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:37:30 +0100 From: "Antony Jordan" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mute swallowed by Mr Suits MORE INFO Shite! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr Grumpy" To: Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 6:37 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Mute swallowed by Mr Suits MORE INFO > Here's all I could find today: > http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3225T721D > > I'll check with billboard.com for more news... > > ===== > /\/\/\ { . . } -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:41:36 +0100 From: "Antony Jordan" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vox Pop Why doesn't someone release the aborted album? Ok it may have sounded dated then but re-releases always do and it's the songs that matter anyway. I say ditch the early demos and let us hear the other stuff. Tony - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vox Pop > In a message dated 5/13/02 1:20:15 PM Central Daylight Time, > umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > > << Robert Lynn cried for oldies>>>>> > > "cried" ? ....hmmmm...nah, i was just lamenting that it would have been > nice... > thankfully, you set me straight with info straight from Colin's mouth about > why he didn't release it... > > Colin might just be a little busy with Wire now to even think about Vox > Pop.>>>> > > of course....and this is a good thing > > > NP Colin Newman - May >>> > > what is this? > > RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:45:23 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Riff Meet Aphorism In a message dated 5/13/02 1:16:59 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: << NP Coil - Lost Rivers of London >> isn't this a bit "old" by your standards?..shouldn't you be listening to something brand new and trailblazing in the current music scene? RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:44:04 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Riff Meet Aphorism In a message dated 5/13/02 1:16:59 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: << Robert hated it >>>Personally i hated "Bastard" and thought it was a really lame stab at the current trends in "dance" music.... The only substandard track on Bastard which succumbs to sounding too much like something else is 'G-Deep'. Colin was going to leave it off the album, but Gez Varley (g_Man) convinced him to use it. So one reference point didn't mind being referenced. >>>>> and that is YOUR opinion....i worked in a dj/dance music specialty store for 7 years and when that album came out it sounded like a lot of other records that i was hearing day in day out....my ears hear it differently than you do... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:27:57 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Riff Raff Meet Aphorism > I don't think any of it sounds like Roni Size, and even if that was their > intention, Colin & Malka came up with something a bit more substantial. > hate to disappoint you, but 'new forms' is much better than the drum'n'bass stuff on 'bastard', but then i'm not blinded by a "it's colin so it's best" mentality. whilst drum'n'bass isn't my fave genre (that's gilbert o'sullivan obviously), 'new forms' was a pretty exciting record at the time, and it's silly to pretend otherwise. (god knows how an old fart like me came to hear it. i must have had a rare nostalgia free day, when i wasn't listening to dr robert, the jam or gently strumming the hits of the mama's & papa's on my acoustic) anyway, 'bastard' is better when it's being colin ('spaced in' is one of those moments and so are the tracks on the two 'swim team' compilations), in the same way that roni size attempts at post-punk pop would be unlikely to equal 'not to'. keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:27:46 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Riff Raff Meet Aphorism In a message dated 5/13/02 2:23:18 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << anyway, 'bastard' is better when it's being colin ('spaced in' is one of those moments and so are the tracks on the two 'swim team' compilations), in the same way that roni size attempts at post-punk pop would be unlikely to equal 'not to'. keith >> ahhhh, i agree completely.....and i like the Roni Size record a lot too. Though drum and bass is not really my thing either i appreciate a lot of stuff by Photek, Doc Scott, and Peshay....i also like tons of stuff from LTJ Bukem's Looking Good/Good Looking labels... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:38:19 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Camp Wound > Coil & NWW have gone from strength to strength musically and in recent years > have surpassed themselves again and again. Today, lumping them in with an old > scene that you grew bored with is at worst patronising or at best ignorant. i've never found mark to be remotely patronising or ignorant. surely 'virtual arguments' pale in comparison with 'virtual picnics' anyway (anyone else see johnny vegas on room 101?) i'll bring the sandwiches, you bring the drinks... keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:56:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Riff Raff Meet Aphorism On Mon, 13 May 2002, Keith Astbury wrote: > anyway, 'bastard' is better when it's being colin ('spaced in' is one of > those moments and so are the tracks on the two 'swim team' > compilations), in the same way that roni size attempts at post-punk pop > would be unlikely to equal 'not to'. Not quite the same, perhaps, but Roni Size did a record with a few collaborators under the name Breakbeat Era that is more pop-inflected drum'n'bass, particularly in the vocals. Pretty gripping... I have to admit a fondness for good vocals that kept me from enjoying New Forms all the way through. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:02:56 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Camp Wound In a message dated 5/13/02 2:33:03 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << surely 'virtual arguments' pale in comparison with 'virtual picnics' anyway (anyone else see johnny vegas on room 101?) i'll bring the sandwiches, you bring the drinks... keith >> i'll bring the potato salad... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:14:34 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Camp Wound In a message dated 5/13/02 1:17:00 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: << Could the fact that the core of Coil are a gay couple have more to do with any campery there than nazi shtick? >> so i guess that what you are saying is that gay men = camp ? thank you for being their spokesperson... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:41:49 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Riff Raff Meet Aphorism > > anyway, 'bastard' is better when it's being colin ... > > in the same way that roni size attempts at post-punk pop > > would be unlikely to equal 'not to'. > > Not quite the same, perhaps, but Roni Size did a record with a few > collaborators under the name Breakbeat Era that is more pop-inflected > drum'n'bass, particularly in the vocals. Pretty gripping... I have to > admit a fondness for good vocals that kept me from enjoying New Forms all > the way through. > > a i've got a couple of singles by breakbeat era - played one a couple of days ago in fact! didn't get the last roni size album, but 'who told you' was pretty impressive. not dis-similar to breakbeat era, though maybe a bit 'harder'? keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:14:14 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits In a message dated 13/05/02 16:38:41 GMT Daylight Time, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: > EMI ACQUIRES MUTE > ////so the wire back catalogue ends up on EMI. woah ; we might get that decent box set yet ! er , only kidding. that's really sad news. ivo sold out 4ad a couple of years back apparently , so they've all gone now. wonder what EMI will do with the more "left field" mute acts , i mean i hate to be cynical but i hope this isn't just to get the new moby lp. meanwhile , talking of EMI signings , is it really true that the pistols have recorded a dance version of GSTQ for this re-issue? somebody was trying to convince me about this but i thought it had to be a wind up. anyone heard it? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:09:07 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits In a message dated 13/05/2002 16:49:54 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > << EMI ACQUIRES MUTE >> > > > > ugh..... > Yes.I read this on Sunday too.Highly unsavoury. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:28:05 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Camp Wound In a message dated 13/05/2002 21:08:38 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > << surely 'virtual arguments' pale in comparison with 'virtual picnics' > anyway > (anyone else see johnny vegas on room 101?) > > i'll bring the sandwiches, you bring the drinks... > > keith >> > > i'll bring the potato salad... > > RL > Whatever you do remember it's Graeme winding you up "ever so gently" as Mr Lewis would say.So don't bite. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:42:18 +1000 From: "Phillip Blakeney" Subject: [idealcopy] The Snakes I have just been (re)reading Kevin's 'Everybody Loves A History' and note that Robert Gotobed was in THE SNAKES preWire, and "recorded six songs in Pathways Studios in one overnight session for a Dutch label, Moondog". Were these songs released??? If so what were they like? Phillip from Australia - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:46:03 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nurse! The Wound! >>It would be a big mistake to assume that Coil or Nurse With Wound succumb to style over content problems. NWW in particular make more sense in the context of "Krautrock" influence & electro-acoustic music than as a footnote to Throbbing Gristle and any perceived industrial scene. Coil have made some of the most interesting rhythmic / drone computer / synth music in recent years. Coil have travelled so far beyond what TG started its a whole new universe! Coil & NWW have gone from strength to strength musically and in recent years have surpassed themselves again and again. Today, lumping them in with an old scene that you grew bored with is at worst patronising or at best ignorant.<< Well, it succeeded in being provocative ;-) But fair enough, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But I draw the line at David Tibet. Silly person. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:53:03 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits > meanwhile , talking of EMI signings , is it really true that the pistols have > recorded a dance version of GSTQ for this re-issue? somebody was trying to > convince me about this but i thought it had to be a wind up. anyone heard it? > p all i've heard is that GSTQ is being re-issued. not any dance remix, just the original 45. but hey, it wouldn't surprise me... keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:48:27 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Kibosh Big Black Fucking Guru Graeme, > >>It would be silly to describe 80s Wire as either. The only 80s Wire song I > could really think of as extreme on any level is Gilbert's unique guitar & > the > mix on Feed Me, which is also a masterpiece. Unless you pedantically > include > D&E & 2nd Length as 80s Wire. > > Could monorhythmic repetition be thought of as an extreme?<< > > You answered your own question. I'd have said the most extreme 80s Wire > song was Drill. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:53:39 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nurse! The Wound! In a message dated 5/13/02 5:46:33 PM Central Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > Well, it succeeded in being provocative ;-) But fair enough, I'll give them > the benefit of the doubt. But I draw the line at David Tibet. Silly person. > > Mark > although some of the instrumental pieces like In Sucking Up Souls/To Feed the Moon.. Killy Kill Killy... Great Black Time...The Sadness of Things.. etc..are pretty decent...you should check them out.. RL RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:02:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Songs about Skrewing > >>If hardness is a legitimate factor by which to rate bands, the only ones > at > ATP who could slug it out with Wire would be Shellac, Melt Banana, Zeni > Geva, > Mission of Burma & Oxes. Melt Banana would probably win as they'd get a lot > of > punch in places others couldn't reach, but Zeni Geva might take it on sheer > brute force. Shellac have some tricky moves though, and Mission of Burma > were > thought to be the loudest by some.<< For my money Wire at Bristol were a good deal louder, faster and harder than MoB at the Garage. Wire have added Gilbert. Men with white hair have an advantage in decibels. Or something. >>>He also mentions a list of bands he likes, which includes Skrewdriver for some reason. Because he was able to enjoy their music without being bothered by their retarded political posturing. He felt they delivered their stupidity with conviction. << Not so. If you listen to All Skrewed Up, their debut album, you'll find there is no evidence of Skrewdriver's unpleasant politics. It's a pretty good slab of 77 punk nihilism, bereft of pretty much any form of political posturing, retarded or sophisticated. It's easy to see why songs like Antisocial or You're so dumb appealed to Albini. I would doubt he knew of the existence of any later albums. I think you could only get them from gigs, and you would have had to have been a member of a far-right group to hear about them. Ever seen a late Skrewdriver album in a record shop? Skrewdriver only reformed as a Nazi band some time in the early 80s. HIan Donaldson was certainly known as a Nazi in Blackpool by 1980. Seen him sieg heiling at gigs etc, the c**t. I'd also refer you to DJ Mark Radcliffe's book Showbusiness (which rather amusingly details his parallel career as a musician). At one point he was the drummer in Skrewdriver - and says there was no evidence of racist/nazi politics when he toured with the band in 77. Not defending them BTW, just pointing out that revisionism means one of the better 2nd division 77 punk albums has been erased from the story. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:14:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Grumpy Subject: [idealcopy] Pistols remix!!! God Save The Queen - Neil Barnes remix. Should be in a shop near you on the 27th. saw this at cdnow: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1325965312/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/ArtistID=SEX+PISTOLS/ITEMID=1558207 I also heard this was going to be released on gold vinyl 7" & 12". Cheers, Billy ===== /\/\/\ { . . } /\ -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:15:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Snakes Phillip, > I have just been (re)reading Kevin's 'Everybody Loves A History' and note > that Robert Gotobed was in THE SNAKES preWire, and "recorded six songs in > Pathways Studios in one overnight session for a Dutch label, Moondog". > Were these songs released??? If so what were they like? Phillip from > Australia Two of them were released as a single. Pub rock, basically. But worth having for the cover shot. Rob looks pretty cool. Which is more than can be said for his bandmates! The guitarist was Nick Garvey, later of the Motors.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:43:56 +0100 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Mute swallowed by Mr Suits a smug Gooner writes... >wonder what EMI will do with the >more "left field" mute acts , i mean i hate to be cynical but i hope this >isn't just to get the new moby lp. quit hatin', it probably is...mind you, the receipts should just cover the Mariah Carey pay-off... maybe we'll get a Crime & The City Solution box-set with a dance version of 'On Every Train (Grain Will Bear Grain)'... ian.s.j. NP (in me head...) - The Wurzels 'Brand New Combine Harvester' ;) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:09:28 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] He Lost Airplanes! In a message dated 5/12/02 9:42:02 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: >If anyone's interested I have quite a good sound effects album of jet planes > >taking off. Makes Merzbow sound like Belle & Sebastian. hehe, i really did laugh out loud when i read mark's post. made me think of a record in my collection, featuring birds and ambient sounds from an african village. makes belle & sebastian sound like merzbow. if anyone's interested... - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:05:30 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Songs about Skrewing Ever >seen a late Skrewdriver album in a record shop? > acutally, i'm pretty sure i saw some of the late-(mid-?)'80s titles on some shelves in new orleans back when i lived there 12-odd years ago. or maybe i'm just flashing on having seen a couple at record fairs back in little rock. i rate you're so dumb, anti-social & government action pretty highly in the nihilist-punk sweepstakes myself, though i thought the lp (which i found, still shrinkwrapped, for a couple of bucks in the store behind my house in the mid-'90s, oddly enough) paled in comparision, overall. shame about what happened later ... i've always thought someone should've covered you're so dumb & directed it pointedly at the latterly politicized mr stuart & his goose-stepping fans. dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:03:55 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] He Lost Airplanes! Nice one Paul - perhaps we could do a remix album based on the two! Mark > >>>If anyone's interested I have quite a good sound effects album of jet > planes > > > >taking off. Makes Merzbow sound like Belle & Sebastian. > > hehe, i really did laugh out loud when i read mark's post. made me think of > a > record in my collection, featuring birds and ambient sounds from an african > > village. makes belle & sebastian sound like merzbow. if anyone's > interested...<< ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #149 *******************************