From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #141 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, May 8 2002 Volume 05 : Number 141 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] first ever gig.YOU LUCKY SO & SO ["Steve Speight" ] [idealcopy] Re: Top Ten Albums/talk talk [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] my first gig [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] In the Beginning is the Storm ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] In the Beginning is the Storm [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] First gig/Enigma Variations [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re:[idealcopy] My first ever gig... [Tim ] Re: Re:[idealcopy] My first ever gig... [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] OT: Gigs 'behind the curtain' ["John Roberts" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] first ever gig.YOU LUCKY SO & SO The Splits live - surely this cannot be surpassed - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of CHRISWIRE@aol.com Sent: 07 May 2002 21:13 To: D.Heale@btopenworld.com; xj23@yahoo.com Cc: IDealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig.YOU LUCKY SO & SO In a message dated 07/05/2002 18:08:11 GMT Daylight Time, D.Heale@btopenworld.com writes: > The Banana Splits- > > some shopping center- > > 1971 > > I was 6. > > > > Cheers, > > Billy > > billy.you saw the BANANA SPLITS!!!! > That is just so excellent.Wow I would love to have seen them.I mean it. Tra la la Tra la la la ... Fleagle take out the trash ! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:47:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: RE: [idealcopy] talk, talk, keep on.... TOTALY agree with 'Eric in Toronto'too much bickering about 'that's not my style,I don't like it,so it shouldn't be here',(ala djnana)plus of course a'little dissent adds a lot of spice,it'd surely be just a load of boring old farts if we all agreed with one another all the time,where would we get our new perspectives then?Ari - --- Eric Klaver wrote: > The reason, or one of the reasons at any rate, that > so many people > missed Graeme is that the discussions on idealcopy > often lack real > weight. > > /////////////////////// > > Why are people poo-pooing BillEmeargGraeme for > having an opinion? I agree > with Miles that Graeme contributes an extraordinary > amount to this list in > style and content. And when I have time to read an > extraordinary amount, I > do so. If you don't like what Graeme has to say and > you don't think it's > worth its (hefty) weight, don't read it. > > If he is personally insulting (which is a border he > skirts only once in a > while) then take it up with Miles or be an adult and > take it up with him. > > This, as well, is directed at no one in particular. > > Eric in Toronto ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 15:43:39 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Top Ten Albums/talk talk >From: "Keith Astbury" >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... > >> so here's a question keith. did any albums get no votes at all? pray >> tell.....................p > >i've just had a quick look and can see no mention of the following, though >i'd stand corrected if challenged! >34R >or so it seems >music for fruit >haring >in esse >orr >ac marias - one of our girls >frequency variation No challenge, but I will note that on a different day anyone of the above might have been on my list (the last couple were difficult). Now if we did a second ten .... just kidding. >From: RLynn9@aol.com >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk > >Miles in reply to my sarcasm: I thought you were serious, Robert, and I'm glad to hear you weren't. Annoying as they are, those little :) help. Anyway, as a result of your post Miles and others did an excellent job of explaining why some of us are so fond of Graeme, so maybe it's good that you were unclear. >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... > ><< in esse >> > >I'm pretty sure it was close to the top of our Graeme's list!! I don't want to speak for him, particularly after he has questioned the wisdom of the entire exercise (I thought it was kind of fun), but I can tell you that Ad Ovo would be rated much higher. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs For those of you that don't know,C.D's are PRINTED, not pressed.smart-alec Ari in N.C - --- Mr Grumpy wrote: > As far as I know, these cds were not remastered. > They > are the same as the UK issues. > The Mute discs always sounded the same as their > Enigma > counterparts. Believe they were both mastered by > Nimbus. > The Enigma versions of the EMI discs should be the > same as they were all pressed by the same company. > I have done no comparison with the Elektra Wir cd. > Please correct me if I'm wrong. > > Cheers, > Billy > > > > > Are these really remastered? If so, is it worth > > upgrading from the > > > Enigma discs? > > > ===== > /\/\/\ { . . } > /\ > -- -bollocks! (R)GWS > Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:13:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] my first gig worth recalling was The Rolling Stones at Ken Colliers Club in Soho around november/december '63. I too am ignoring Helen Shapiro (around '60/'61)can't even remember the venue,or all the other gigs up to the Stones. Ho Hum..That's old age for ya!Ari ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:27:49 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] In the Beginning is the Storm (Scroll to end for good Wire news) Here's the intro (by Achim Szepanski) from a booklet with the 1996 Mille Plateaux 2CD compilation 'In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze' "Gilles Deleuze made the choice to end his own life. A last inaccessible event that mostly leaves the survivors with only traces of desperation and loneliness. And yet it is this last absolutely unique moment that allowed him to become his own judge and from one moment to another left us only with the power of a non organic life, that found in his work. Perhaps it was not the kind of suicide which Foucault spoke of, an act which should be thought about, that illuminates life, but more the radical refusal to wait, with his illness, for death and in the end to find his body shut in the technical surroundings of a hospital. Deleuze himself thought of life, the energies that life releases within itself and the act of forcing writing as a great experiment to overcome the possibilities of existance and the ways of life of which one is a prisoner..." He spoke of those artists and philosophers with poor health whose biological forces are often so weak but who are nevertheless attacked, not by death, but by the fascinating diversity of life that they see and think. Life that is beyond the biological force, that nevertheless, in every moment, creates new constructions by opening the lines of resistance. Bringing a curve into the lines, creating diverse productions of subjectivity, allowing life to wnader on the plateaux - one sees that life is spread out in regions, that are filled with singularities that have to be repeatedly recreated and strung together. Just as thpught means the discovery of new terms and setting itslef free of the self to be able to think of the new, so must life darw vanishing lines, withdraw from the mechanisms of being shut in, avoid the premanebt control and hyper-information. As part of the masses life is in danger of perishing in random samples, data, markets or computer nets, or of suffocating in the gigantic tautological machinery of the media industry, that continuously sends back the opinions of the masses, that they , as media, formulated. The relevance to the present in Deleuze's thinking also lies in having given a first great non-communicable answer toi the information machinery. He discovered the minoritial, the difeerential, that neither communicates or thinks strategies, but carries out the games of disguise, draws active disappearing lines in the fields of society. It is the streams of desires that meet and produce machine complexities. Their movements - linking, coupling, are defined through forces that repeatedly construct new networks. The rhizome is such a labyrinth, a rich ensemble of relations, diversity, connection and heterogeneity, breaks and unexpected links. They show the vision of a life that opens the ways of production of subjectivity to art as the horizon of resistance lights up. The right to variety, the right to difference. Desire is an affirmative energy, it functions in relating fields, it makes its mechanical syntheses - and don't worry, it functions - writes Deleuze in 'Anti-Oedipus', that Foucault later termed an introduction to the non-fascist life. A construction of machines that is more than the world of technology, an *in-between* world, a mediation without extremes, because the poles of that which is to be mediated are again interlaced by lines, it is enlivened by the production subjectivity. The machines themselves are interlaced by various currents and they don't function by technologically defined precision ideals, but rather they continuosuly produce unpredictable effects by multiplying themselves and creating interfaces for new currents. Sound machines are also more than synthesizers which represent more a kind of assemblage, sound machines are desire machines. They are created through linking heterogeneous elements and *immersion* in form changing transversally, the sound currents break open the customary channels and bring the sound molecules to oscillation. A machine music that withdraws from interpretation because no analytical thought and absolutley no memory pushes itself in between the music and the nervous system. Because the electronic music makes the interfaces an issue te operation of technological music can be turned against itself. 'Music is never tragic, music is joy. But there are times it necessarily gives us a taste for death, not so much happiness as dying happily, being extinguished... Whenever a musician writes in memorial, it isnot so much a question of an inspiration motif or a memory, but on the contrary of a becomming that is only confronting its own danger, even taking a fall to rise again: a becoming child, a becoming woman, a becoming animal as fasr as they ae the content of the music itself and continue to the point of death...' Becoming so that the music goes beyond itself, this is the search for the forces of the minoritial that the label Mille Plateaux is part of. In a letter, Gilles Deleuze welcomed the existance of such a label." Back on topic, if it was ever off? Peel just played Art of Stopping introducing by saying, "Now here's a punchy item!" Afterwards Peel enthused, "Excellent! I wonder if that's available on vinyl? If it is I'll be rushing out to look for it!" Even better he then said he wondered if they'd be up for doing another the session!!! Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:57:55 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] ATP 2.0? Nope. I looked Sunday--sadly, no Wire. Robert Subject: [idealcopy] ATP I am curious if someone knows if there is a Wire -track on one of the ATP-promo ceedees. Especially the one called Shellac curated All Tomorrow's Parties 2.0> *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and all of its attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:30:31 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In the Beginning is the Storm In a message dated 5/7/02 4:42:37 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > Back on topic, if it was ever off? Peel just played Art of Stopping > introducing by saying, "Now here's a punchy item!" > > Afterwards Peel enthused, "Excellent! I wonder if that's available on > vinyl? > If it is I'll be rushing out to look for it!" > > Even better he then said he wondered if they'd be up for doing another the > session!!! > > Cracked Machine > now THAT is indeed good news! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:45:50 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig << think you're right about the New Hearts (singer?) and Secret Affair. >> Indeed you are. Ian Page and guitarist Dave Cairns went on to form Secret Affair. Who have, incidentally, reformed and are playing Shepherd's Bush Empire this month(!!!). Where's me fishtail parka? Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:58:12 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs >All will be revealed when I get a second. Okay - here's what I know. I know simply because I have these discs, and I'm cross referencing with (A)ndrew's discography. (^_^) http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty/wire/ We'll organize this by groups. First group: The Harvest CDs: Pink Flag Chairs Missing 154 On Returning The U.S. editions of PF, CM & 154 were released by Restless Records/Enigma under the moniker of "Restless Retro". They came out in the 80's and have never been remastered in the US. The UK editions originally came out about the same time - a little earlier, actually. Then they were remastered in the mid 90's. These remastered versions are quite louder than the original 80s masters - and the selection of bonus tracks are different, making On Returning less necessary. If you buy all three remasters, then you're only missing the live version of 12XU that's on "On Returning". (On Returning itself has never been remastered.) Generally I think that the UK remasters sound pretty good, but there's one track on 154 that I'm pretty sure I can hear some digital overload that isn't present on the original US versions. Caveat Emptor, as they say. (Miles, the box set is the British remasters repackaged. The link to allmusic.com is correct in its information. ) Next group, the Mute CDs: The Ideal Copy A Bell Is A Cup... It's Beginning To And Back Again I can't tell you as much about these. I only have the original US edition and the latest UK edition of The Ideal Copy & Manscape. (A friend of mine had the UK version of IBTABA, but I never compared my US version to it....(^_^)) I can tell you that The Ideal Copy doesn't match. The US edition is from Enigma records, and was pressed by Discovery systems. The sound is quite different between the two. The UK version is lighter in tone - - not as much bass. Totally different final EQ mix at the mastering stage. I'm not sure which one I prefer. For me, it was worth getting the UK edition to get the alternate version of Ahead - but that's probably just me. (^_^) Manscape - I have the orignal US and UK editions of this, and they're identical from what I remember. Cheers, Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:02:00 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs >Next group, the Mute CDs: > One further note. The two Mute versions I have (The Ideal Copy & Manscape) are probably from the original batch and not the recent Mute re-issue series. I believe that Billy (aka Mr Grumpy) is correct in his assumption that the recent Mute re-issues are identical to the original Mute issues, but I can neither confirm nor deny as they say. Cheers, Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:12:32 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First gig/Enigma Variations >There were some other CD versions of these albums released before Enigma did >them. I have no idea what label they appeared on but we had them in on >import in a record shop I used to work in in 1986/7. They had catalogue >numbers CDHAR1, CDHAR2, and CDHAR3. Anyone know who or what these were? Yup - these were the original Harvest CDs. They came out in 1987 in the UK, followed by the "Restless Retro" US editions in 1989. From what I can tell (although I have never compared them directly) the 1989 US editions used the 1987 UK masters, and are identical. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 01:35:07 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re:[idealcopy] Phillip Jeck Robert wrote: >Have any Ideal Copyists heard the new Phillip Jeck cd "Stoke"? Graeme are you >out there? > >Robert Lynn Don't know if Graeme is out there, but I'm listening to it right now Robert. Its good but I have to say I prefer his last one, Vinyl Coda IV. On first listen Stoke sounds a bit muddy sounding and it doesn't grab me like VC IV did. It lacks the fizzing, lively feel of that record (which reminded me of the early Orb stuff) I think Jeck is best heard in a continuous, evolving performance where you can hear him bringing different elements of sound (from his arsenal of lo-fi dansettes, casio keyboards and his Alba CD player) ., in instead of here where they have chopped short excerpts from various live events. And in fact the best track is the last, and longest (15 mins) where he adds in a few Sitar records to the scratchy mix, and this slowly evolves into a typical gorgeous Jeck mix of snatches of vocal, found sound and more snap, crackle and pop than a frying pan in your local Greasy Spoon. But thats only my first listen so I think I need to give it another spin. Great title, and great Wozencroft sleeve too. ________________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 01:09:19 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re:[idealcopy] My first ever gig... My first gig was New Order, ACR and The Happy Mondays at Manchester G-Mex, 17 Dec 1988. This sober, straight and somewhat scared 15 year old was suddenly thrust into the heart of the Factory...which at the time was just peaking on Acid House. Mike Pickering from the Hacienda was DJing..and the perfect beat was enhanced by the cavernous acoustics of what was once Manchesters Central Station...and from which I have yet to recover. The Good Doctor Alan Wise (AKA Dr Demetrius to those who have read James Young's excellent story of Nico's last years in Manchester) introduced each band, dressed as a 'wounded soldier' and said that 'Happy Mondays will be with us shortly...they're just taking their ecstacy....and yes Bez is with them tonight'....had no idea what he meant until this 'Bez' thing appeared in front of us...bug-eyed and clearly under the influence of something. The Mondays were fresh from recording 'Bummed' with Hannet and the rough edges were yet to be smoothed off by Paul Oakenfold....I remember being deafened by Gary Whelans piledriving drums (clearly inspired by Hannett I now realise) and Shaun Ryder in his 'DLT Shades'...John Cooper Clarke/Mark E.Smith but on stronger drugs. ACR were trapped in major record label hell at the time and were bordering on 'Lighthouse Family' territory. They still had one good song, Good Together which merged the acid house thing with sax and live drums, and Shaun Ryder ambled back on stage to add backing vocals. New Order were on form. Just about to release 'Technique', but they played mostly a greatest hits set plus 'Age of Consent' and Every Second Counts'. They were still pretty ragged though, and took a ten minute+ encore then ended with 'Fine Time' which broke down in first two seconds and they had to re-start. But they were awesome. And they had lasers and everything. >Mark McQuitty wrote: >My first gig was X-Ray Spex at the Birmingham Odeon on 10th December 1978. > >I can still remember the blast when the curtains opened and the stage lights >went on. > >(Do any venues still use curtains nowadays?) Not any I've been to. Although Wire did draw a black curtain across the stage at the end of their Garage set a couple of years ago. Atmy first gig I remember being more excited by seeing all the incredible gear that New Order had set up behind them....racks and racks of mad electronic kit with loads of flashing lights all over the place, it looked like the flightdeck of the f**kin' starship enterprise...and Hooky had two huge bass amps with 'Guitar' on one and 'Hero' on the other. Class! ________________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 23:17:25 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: Re:[idealcopy] My first ever gig... the unfortunate truth: randy newman and stephen bishop at lincoln center, around 1976 i think. i remember newman playing short people, but it wasn't yet being played on the radio. the first gig i took my brother (7 years younger than me): u2 and the dream syndicate at the palladium, around 1983. u2 had released war, and bono was climbing the p.a. system. i think my brother made out better than i did :o\ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 23:18:37 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig jesus ... some band with, i think, one or more grand funk railroad alumni called flint (as in michigan), playing in the middle of the floor of my cow college's student center, probably around mid-'78. yep -- i was at least 18 before i ever saw a band ... nothing quite like a rural arkansas upbringing, by god. (some 4 years later i was getting bashed in the head by a stage-diving jello biafra's knee. funny old world, innit?) dan, who's never gotten around to playing the recent reissue of the jolt's lp, but who is quite fond of their rather non-mod-revivalist track, no excuses, on the first 20 of another kind comp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:24:46 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Gigs 'behind the curtain' Pixies played the opening number on one tour behind a curtain. Could have been circa Bossanova. John > >>Mark McQuitty wrote: >>My first gig was X-Ray Spex at the Birmingham Odeon on 10th December 1978. >> >>I can still remember the blast when the curtains opened and the stage >>lights >>went on. >> >>(Do any venues still use curtains nowadays?) > >Not any I've been to. Although Wire did draw a black curtain across the >stage at the end of their Garage set a couple of years ago. >Atmy first gig I remember being more excited by seeing all the incredible >gear that New Order had set up behind them....racks and racks of mad >electronic kit with loads of flashing lights all over the place, it looked >like the flightdeck of the f**kin' starship enterprise...and Hooky had two >huge bass amps with 'Guitar' on one and 'Hero' on the other. Class! > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #141 *******************************