From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #140 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, May 7 2002 Volume 05 : Number 140 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] first ever gig ["Steve Speight" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: R n B is not a Colin solo/ the sound of RnB [giluz ] [idealcopy] My first ever gig... [Mark McQuitty ] Re: [idealcopy] Virus Ship [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... [Miles Goosens ] RE: [idealcopy] talk, talk, keep on.... ["Eric Klaver" ] Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... [PaulRabjohn@ao] Re: [idealcopy] talk talk Talking of [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] first ever gig [Mr Grumpy ] [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs [Mr Grumpy ] Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... ["Keith Astbury] Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig.YOU LUCKY SO & SO ["David Heale" ] [idealcopy] RE POST CREAM SILENCE ["David Heale" ] [idealcopy] First gig/Enigma Variations ["John Roberts" ] [idealcopy] Read and Burn ["Jan Noorda" ] Re: [idealcopy] talk talk [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] ATP ["Jan Noorda" ] Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig.YOU LUCKY SO & SO [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] RE POST CREAM SILENCE [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] first ever gig ["Steve Speight" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:32:12 +0100 From: "Steve Speight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] first ever gig Hammersmith Odean (77 I think ?) The Jam, The New Hearts, The Jolt (The Modern World tour) (followed by the Buzzcocks and Penetration at Bracknell Sports Centre) Steve - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Keith Astbury Sent: 07 May 2002 07:26 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] first ever gig Here's one for you y'all. WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST EVER GIG? And honest answers please, not the hip Pistols at the 100 Club reply (unless of course, you really were that fortunate!) Anyway, here's mine. Although I'd seen a number of M.O.R. pop acts as a child due to my mum and dad loving 'a good show' (the Seekers and the Bachelors in the 60's, Roger Whittaker and New World in the early 70's!!!), the first PROPER gig I went to was Uriah Heep at the Manchester Free Trade Hall on their 1974 'Wonderworld' tour. I wasn't a Uriah Heep fan at all - in fact I don't think I'd actually ever heard them - but there was a school trip to see them (we were extremely fortunate that our R.E. teacher Mr Owen - I'll mention his name cos he deserves it - organised a number of trips to pop concerts). To be honest, I'd wanted to go and see Roxy Music, but that trip was cancelled due to a lack of interest. (I still can't believe that). As I was just desperate to go to a gig - - any gig - and couldn't wait until the Sparks trip a few weeks later on bonfire night (which would have been an altogether hipper first gig don't you think???), I went to see five long haired heavy rock merchants play lots of dead long songs (with titles like 'Gypsy' and 'July Morning'!) that I'd never heard before, supported by a pre-'Comes Alive' Peter Frampton. Now I'd like to say that I thought they were both shit, but I can't. I loved everything about it - the atmosphere, the volume, Uriah Heep's rock'n'roll medley and, for god's sake, Frampton's cover of 'Jumpin Jack Flash'. I even loved the crowds mindless 'Uriah Uriah Uriah' chant, which even then struck me as.well.mindless! As for the Sparks gig a few weeks later - well what do you think? Russell Mael pirouetting across the stage with a sparkler in his hand. 'This Town Ain't Big Enough for the Both of Us'. Brother Ron's moustache and fixed stare. 'Never Turn Your Back on Mother Earth'. A drummer with the rather splendid name 'Dinky Diamond'. They were great. Over to you??? Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 11:43:36 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: R n B is not a Colin solo/ the sound of RnB on 06/05/02 21:25, Michael Flaherty at mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us wrote: >>> From: "Keith Astbury" >>> Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Torching the Old Tortures >> >>> I'm sure I entirely agree with that Tim. I wouldn't for one moment suggest >>> that graham, bruce and robert have become session men, but R&B does sound >>> very much like colin's baby to me. which is just fine by me... > > Is that because it's more pop? From that stand point I understand what you > (and others) mean, but I have to say that while it sounds nothing like > Dome, it doesn't sound much like solo Newman to me either. RnB sounds so much like Wire and not like any member's solo efforts - of course Colin is quite significant, but he was like that throughout most of Wire's albums - that doesn't make it his thing. Of course you could hear some progression towards it on his latest pre-Wire tracks - that still dosen't mean its a Colin album doing Wire. Most of the tracks on the whole RnB project was edited by Colin & Bruce working together. Colin did the mixes, though. Speaking of which, I would really like to hear what people here think about the sound of RnB01, which is certainly one of its strengths. Tim already commented about the snare sound. I personally think the guitars sound is just unbelievable. It's very hard to mix something which has so much (angry) guitars on it and still be able to have the drums quite prominent and not somewhere in the back of your headphones. I do think, though, that Graham's bass had to pay the price. What do other people think, and how would you compare it to other contemporary guitar-dense rock bands sound, like Boredoms, for example. How would you compare it to other Wire albums, 70's & 80's? Giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 11:45:11 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk on 07/05/02 05:33, Miles Goosens at wireadmin@mindspring.com wrote: > 1) The reason, or one of the reasons at any rate, that so many people > missed Graeme is that the discussions on idealcopy often lack real > weight. He also prefers listening to contemporary stuff instead of dwelling on the past like most listers. Don't get me wrong, I hear lots of oldies myself (though I have to say that I'm quite more carefull with 80's music) but it's far more interesting to read about something new, especially if you haven't heard about it before. > 2) Hey, those "10 page dissertations" bounce to me first (anything over > 7000 characters goes to me for approval), so there might be a delay in the > list seeing 'em until I have time to get to it! Though for the past few > months, I don't think I've been away from minding the bounces for more than > a day at a time... Did anything ever get past the 7000 chars limit? Cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:08:30 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] My first ever gig... My first gig was X-Ray Spex at the Birmingham Odeon on 10th December 1978. I was a fresh-faced 14 year old getting my first ever 'punk/new-wave' experience. I can still remember the blast when the curtains opened and the stage lights went on. (Do any venues still use curtains nowadays?) Thinking back on it, even though I can't remember too much detail, the excitment of the event still gives a thrill. I'll probably have to play the LP tonight when I get home from work. Thanks for reminding me... MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:44:10 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Virus Ship On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 11:18:48AM +0200, giluz wrote: > on 07/05/02 00:15, Miles Goosens at outdoorminer@mindspring.com wrote: > > > Anyway, I recommend that idealcopyists using a PC and Windows (and the > > infected person is more than likely also running Internet Explorer, > > Outlook, and/or Outlook Express) perform an antivirus scan of their > > computers, for the safety & security of their own computers. > > Simple solution: Buy a Macinstosh. Alternatively: SSH to a Unix box to read your mail. :) This has the advantage for the itinerant amongst us that you can read your email from anywhere with moderately unfirewalled Internet connectivity, on nearly any kind of computer. Andrew, from his University department's computer room. - -- "Everybody helps me make my own mistakes; but left alone, I'd make them anyway." - Mansun, "Inverse Midas" ('Six') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 12:05:39 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] fingers in crumbs - Wir remix of Erasure >Well, it's not really Wire, is it? (^_^) >Did you like Wir? Especially Vien? That's more in the style, IMHO - >especially track 2. Paul/keith/list, Yes, I liked Wir a lot, what there is of it. And I wish I'd waited before I posted because on several further listening Fingers in Crumbs is good and worth having. Crampons firmly embedded on the hypnotic face of the hypnotic/boring precipice. And egg firmly attached to my face. The cover credits Andy Bell with the `concept' of the remix - perhaps Erasure are bigger fans of Wir(e) than vice versa? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:22:23 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: R n B is not a Colin solo/ the sound of RnB In a message dated 07/05/02 09:44:40 GMT Daylight Time, giluzzz@fastmail.fm writes: > RnB sounds so much like Wire and not like any member's solo efforts - of > course Colin is quite significant, but he was like that throughout most of > Wire's albums - that doesn't make it his thing. //////the 2 tracks colin played on that "totally radio" webcast (time will allow and - particularly - "cut the slack") seem to be huge pointers towards RnB. both the guitar sound and the "scattergun" lyric style seem to reappear in RnB quite noticeably. though the sound is excellent on RnB i'd have to agree , i think they got what they were hoping for there. not sure i see much silo influence to be honest :-) must also say a proper release of "cut the slack" would be a fine thing , i presume that colin solo album is nearer the back burner than ever. i'm presuming "agfers" is the only graham lyric? the others are all much more minimal , but maybe a dangerous guess there.... be nice to hear that "new" vocal style a bit more maybe? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:24:13 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk In a message dated 07/05/02 09:45:39 GMT Daylight Time, giluzzz@fastmail.fm writes: > Don't get me wrong, I hear lots of oldies myself > (though I have to say that I'm quite more carefull with 80's music) but > it's > far more interesting to read about something new, especially if you haven't > heard about it before. > //// but is "new to me" any less exciting than "brand new"? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 07:58:35 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Play For Yesterday Rancid - And out come the wolves Violent Femmes - Viva Wiskonsin Boney Nem - The Very Best of Greatest Hits Butthole Surfers - Independent Worm Saloon Pere Ubu - The Bailing Man a little bit of Hawkwind - Masters of the Universe comp. Sorry no Wire! will fix this today Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 05:06:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Copy copy copy >>> CN1 is back up on ebay again....complete with a word-for-word copying of the review of it from wireviews.<<< Gits! Maybe I should tell them to send it to me for using my words :-D BTW, I'm now in Iceland, and despite my monitor being bolloxed can now start replying to people again. Expect a Wireviews update sometime in early June. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.org News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 08:53:07 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Virus Ship At 11:18 AM 5/7/2002 +0200, giluz wrote: >on 07/05/02 00:15, Miles Goosens at outdoorminer@mindspring.com wrote: > >> Anyway, I recommend that idealcopyists using a PC and Windows (and the >> infected person is more than likely also running Internet Explorer, >> Outlook, and/or Outlook Express) perform an antivirus scan of their >> computers, for the safety & security of their own computers. > >Simple solution: Buy a Macinstosh. I knew somebody would say that. :-) For the sake of all of us, let's not have the "PC vs. Mac" discussion here - -- if you think the political threads that crop up here are nasty and virulent, you haven't seen anything until you've seen Macintosh fanatics and PC believers have a go at each other... supercomputer, the new contraband, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:00:48 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... At 07:17 AM 5/7/2002 +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: >So after hours of struggling with basic arithmetic, here are the results of >the Ideal Copy Top 10 Wire and associated artists albums. Keith - Thanks for going to the trouble to tabulate all those votes! I've run polls on other lists, so I know how much trouble it can be. Much appreciated, and I think we all enjoyed seeing what floated other ICers' boats. later, Miles, heartened by A BELL IS A CUP's strong showing ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:50:50 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] talk, talk, keep on.... The reason, or one of the reasons at any rate, that so many people missed Graeme is that the discussions on idealcopy often lack real weight. /////////////////////// Why are people poo-pooing BillEmeargGraeme for having an opinion? I agree with Miles that Graeme contributes an extraordinary amount to this list in style and content. And when I have time to read an extraordinary amount, I do so. If you don't like what Graeme has to say and you don't think it's worth its (hefty) weight, don't read it. If he is personally insulting (which is a border he skirts only once in a while) then take it up with Miles or be an adult and take it up with him. This, as well, is directed at no one in particular. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:05:07 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk Talking of In a message dated 5/6/02 6:04:18 PM Central Daylight Time, luvjazzz@yahoo.com writes: << Does anyone have any live talk talk?Ari >> i have several live tracks that were included as b-sides on various 12" singles.. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:33:56 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] 1-3 Wire CDs My CDs of PINK FLAG, CHAIRS MISSING, and 154 are the original Enigma CDs. A couple of days ago a fellow from another music list I'm on offhandedly referred to the "three-CD box," and when I asked him for further details, he pointed me to this All Music Guide entry for what is purportedly a 1994 re-mastering of the early Wire catalog: http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=Axne097bskrrt Are these really remastered? If so, is it worth upgrading from the Enigma discs? And while we're at it, were the recent Mute reissues of the '80s albums remastered? I know that THE IDEAL COPY gets "Ahead 2" as an additional bonus track, but is the sound any different than my originals? later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:11:19 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... so here's a question keith. did any albums get no votes at all? pray tell.....................p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:12:27 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk Talking of In a message dated 07/05/02 15:05:39 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > << Does anyone have any live talk talk?Ari >> > /////there was a live cd (and , i think , video) called "london 86". still in the shops i think . p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:19:54 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig > Hammersmith Odean (77 I think ?) > > The Jam, The New Hearts, The Jolt (The Modern World tour) the jolt. they were that 'new jam' band weren't they. another three peice in suits (but without the weller songs!) i have a pleasant if fairly unremarkable 7" single called (off the top of my head) 'i can wait'. at least they didn't over-stay their welcome. were they as 'jam-like' live as everyone said? didn't someone in the new hearts go onto be quite famous. (it wasn't the guy out of secret affair was it?) keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:27:09 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My first ever gig... > My first gig was X-Ray Spex at the Birmingham Odeon on 10th December 1978. > you lucky bugger! i never got to see poly etc live, let alone have it as a first gig. their first 3 singles are still all-time faves. i know her voice grated on a lot of folk, but those records are just so exciting. as a matter of interest did anyone actually buy that mid-90's belated follow up to 'germ free adolescents'? if so, what does it sound like? the jam and x-ray spex though - i'm gonna have to re-invent history and deny the uriah heep episode ever happened ; ) keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:41:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 1-3 Wire CDs On Tue, 7 May 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > Are these really remastered? If so, is it worth upgrading from the > Enigma discs? Hey, I was just wondering that myself the other day. Anyone? > And while we're at it, were the recent Mute reissues of the '80s albums > remastered? I know that THE IDEAL COPY gets "Ahead 2" as an additional > bonus track, but is the sound any different than my originals? I thought it sounded a lot better than my old CD, but I didn't do a side-by-side; could have been psychological. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Grumpy Subject: [idealcopy] first ever gig The Banana Splits- some shopping center- 1971 I was 6. Cheers, Billy ===== /\/\/\ { . . } /\ -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:55:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Grumpy Subject: [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs As far as I know, these cds were not remastered. They are the same as the UK issues. The Mute discs always sounded the same as their Enigma counterparts. Believe they were both mastered by Nimbus. The Enigma versions of the EMI discs should be the same as they were all pressed by the same company. I have done no comparison with the Elektra Wir cd. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Cheers, Billy > > Are these really remastered? If so, is it worth > upgrading from the > > Enigma discs? ===== /\/\/\ { . . } /\ -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:11:15 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... > so here's a question keith. did any albums get no votes at all? pray > tell.....................p i've just had a quick look and can see no mention of the following, though i'd stand corrected if challenged! the third day singing fish 34R or so it seems p'o music for fruit haring in esse orr ac marias - one of our girls frequency variation matching crosses off the top of my head, the only wire compilation (not inc. prev. unreleased albums like 'coatings') to feature was 'on returning' i'm going for a lie-down! keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:03:13 +0100 From: "David Heale" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig.YOU LUCKY SO & SO - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr Grumpy" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 5:42 PM Subject: [idealcopy] first ever gig > The Banana Splits- > some shopping center- > 1971 > I was 6. > > Cheers, > Billy > billy.you saw the BANANA SPLITS!!!! YOU LUCKY SO & SO.... what was that terrible theme song they did for that whacked out TV.show.... you say you were 6..... was there any long term side effects? I think there was de-programming "seminars" available. see ya... from DAVID IN CORNWALL > ===== > /\/\/\ { . . } -- -bollocks! (R)GWS Ltdhttp://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:21:22 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs > The Enigma versions of the EMI discs should be the > same as they were all pressed by the same company. Nope - they sound *way* different. Unfortunately, I don't have time to reply right now - I'm late for a meeting. (^_^) All will be revealed when I get a second. Cheers, Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:22:46 +0100 From: "David Heale" Subject: [idealcopy] RE POST CREAM SILENCE GREAT COMMENT...... yesMR. Clapton has definately had qaulity product control problems. i still mantain he didn't really better that great J.mAYALL BLUESBREAKERS LP FROM 66 -WAS IT...but i'm just showing my age and looking like an old reactionary! DISREALI GEARS.. still sounds crackin' back to john cage and blessed "silence".... do you know that i'm so right on " mr. Zappa recorded a homage to cage for some compilation cd/ were he's supposed to have spent days trying to record perfect silence..... it seems he got to the point where he was reciving on the desk the lo background noise of the "electrical current" going thru.. the desk! Crikey Keith i have a head full of titbits like this..... is it time to go back to the home? Dare i tell you my first "GIGs" took place in Welwyn GDN cITY herts. 20miles n. of London at a small community centre around 1970.... pre t.rex(just} / black widow/ groundhogs/chicken shack/quintessence - remember them... ho ho ho... i must say Tony mcphee/groundhogs still lodged in my memory... my ears buzzed for a week from the volume.. they wiped the floor with us... THANK CHRIST FOR THE BOMB" live +early versions of cherry red..... i bet most of you gang on the idealcopy haven't the faintest what i'm going on about.... oh. dear those were the days...... now i can't get enough of the aphex twin.... and get subjected to that slim shady by my kids...... must go..David in cornwall ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:25:33 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire 80s CDs In a message dated 5/7/02 11:55:45 AM Central Daylight Time, xj23@yahoo.com writes: << I have done no comparison with the Elektra Wir cd. >> The UK Mute version of The First Letter and the US Elektra version transpose versions of So and Slow....The US version has the single mix where the album version should be and the album version tacked on at the end as a bonus track... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:31:49 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Phillip Jeck Have any Ideal Copyists heard the new Phillip Jeck cd "Stoke"? Graeme are you out there? Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:43:37 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig In a message dated 5/7/02 1:21:01 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST EVER GIG? >> I can't remember if it was Ozzy Osbourne or Rush.....i'm thinking it was Rush on the Permanent Waves tour....Of course years before that i went to see Earth, Wind and Fire with my parents but does that count? Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:41:11 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk Miles in reply to my sarcasm: << 1) The reason, or one of the reasons at any rate, that so many people missed Graeme is that the discussions on idealcopy often lack real weight.>>>> I agree completely...Graeme is a really intelligent person who knows his stuff and has a great gift for writing.. <<<>>>>> I agree with you again...I just didn't have the time to explain at that particular moment..but i will keep that in mind for the future.. <<< Someone had a similar complaint back when IC was even more swamped with "what are you listening to?" playlists that were nothing more than bare lists, and I concur. Not to cite Keith or Robert or anyone in particular for this sin.>>>> Well i will cite myself, because i am indeed guilty of this quite often and i will be more aware in the future.. <<<<>>>> oh, it's no problem for me, really...I love Graeme we have traded information as well as tapes in the past...he's a great guy.. <<< but he's usually got a fistful of reasons, and energy and purpose galore.>>>>> agreed. <<<< I saved his exegesis of the Fall's "Wings," and while I may quibble about certain interpretive particulars or whether the song is "subversive," it's a freaking brilliant piece of writing, and it made the list worth reading.>>>> yes i remember a couple of brilliant things he has written <<<< 2) Hey, those "10 page dissertations" bounce to me first (anything over 7000 characters goes to me for approval), so there might be a delay in the list seeing 'em until I have time to get to it! Though for the past few months, I don't think I've been away from minding the bounces for more than a day at a time...>>>>>> i wasn't serious of course... i was just wisecracking on the ol' cracked machine...and i appreciate and commend you on the wonderful job you do on the Ideal Copy <>> take care Miles....i appreciate you taking the time to point some things out to me... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:30:10 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE POST CREAM SILENCE BLACK WIDOW!! They were that satanic band weren't they. Although I haven't heard it for 30 years I can still remember lyrics from the album I heard - 'come, come, come to the Sabbat, come to the Sabbat, Satan's there'. Rather good musically I recall, although somewhat obsessed lyrically if memory serves. Still, it never had an effect on me (where's that bat?). Yes, Groundhogs were the loudest band I'd ever heard until I went to see Swans who hold the record to this day and probably always will as I can't imagine anyone being louder. It was like entering a new state of being. I recall walking nearer the stage while people around were leaving the venue (Town & Country Club I think). A stunning experience. I'm really not sure about the first gig (I'm ignoring Helen Shapiro in Torquay in 1961) but I think it was probably Wishbone Ash. I could have gone to either Led Zeppelin or T Rex in Bath Pavilion but didn't do either, so I don't really want to remember. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Heale To: Keith Astbury Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 6:22 PM Subject: [idealcopy] RE POST CREAM SILENCE > GREAT COMMENT...... > yesMR. Clapton has definately had qaulity product control problems. > i still mantain he didn't really better that great J.mAYALL BLUESBREAKERS LP > FROM 66 -WAS IT...but i'm just showing my age and looking like an old > reactionary! > DISREALI GEARS.. still sounds crackin' > back to john cage and blessed "silence".... do you know that i'm so right on " > mr. Zappa recorded a homage to cage for some compilation cd/ were he's > supposed to have spent days trying to record perfect silence..... it seems he > got to the point where he was reciving on the desk the lo background noise of > the "electrical current" going thru.. the desk! > Crikey Keith i have a head full of titbits like this..... is it time to go > back to the home? > Dare i tell you my first "GIGs" > took place in Welwyn GDN cITY herts. 20miles n. of London > at a small community centre around 1970.... > pre t.rex(just} / black widow/ groundhogs/chicken shack/quintessence - > remember them... ho ho ho... > i must say Tony mcphee/groundhogs still lodged in my memory... > my ears buzzed for a week from the volume.. they wiped the floor with us... > THANK CHRIST FOR THE BOMB" live +early versions of cherry red..... > i bet most of you gang on the idealcopy haven't the faintest what i'm going on > about.... > oh. dear those were the days...... > now i can't get enough of the aphex twin.... and get subjected to that slim > shady by my kids...... > must go..David in cornwall ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:27:43 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Top Ten Wire Albums. And the winner is... << in esse >> I'm pretty sure it was close to the top of our Graeme's list!! Looking back I really should have voted for the Muzeum Traces cylinder ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:19:25 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] Kaito Went to see Clinic at ULU (University of London Union) on Friday - and very good they were too. But the support band, Kaito, was one of those great 'I've never heard of them' support band gigs. A young four piece - female singer/guitarist, female bassist, male guitarist, male Animal Muppet-like drummer - they had me and my equally ageing friends in paroxysms of delight. I was nearly in tears at one point for Chrissake so overcome was I (beer undoubtedly helped at this point). They occupy a Venn Diagram of the Raincoats, the Slits, the Breeders and Bikini Kill - although when we quizzed the guitarist about his Raincoats affiliations he said he'd never heard of them (ah, youth). Six of us went and four of us bought product, which says something about their effect. They play the Camden Underworld on 30 May and I can unreservedly recommend them if you like the sort of music created by the bands above. They toured the US recently also, according to the website. another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 18:45:30 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: [idealcopy] First gig/Enigma Variations Could have sworn that we did first gig some time ago. If not, first three gigs were: Boomtown Rats supported by Protex, Granby Halls, Leicester, October 1979. The Clash supported by Whirlwind(?), De Montfort Hall, Leicester, December 1979. Stiff Little Fingers supported by Another Pretty Face, Leicester University, February 1980. And because I was so young and couldn't afford them I missed the Ramones and the Buzzcocks at De Montfort Hall somewhere in between these gigs. Didn't go to another gig for another 12 months when I went to see Stiff Little Fingers supported by The Wall in March 1981 (at the Uni again). Christ I feel old. First Wire gig was Town and Country Club, December 1987. Support was Fini Tribe and Michael Clarke's Shivering Man. I've heard that the Enigma 70s CDs are different from the EMI ones apart from the obvious track listing differences. And I've never heard the EMI reissues. Looking forward to Paul's explainations. There were some other CD versions of these albums released before Enigma did them. I have no idea what label they appeared on but we had them in on import in a record shop I used to work in in 1986/7. They had catalogue numbers CDHAR1, CDHAR2, and CDHAR3. Anyone know who or what these were? Cheers John _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:57:33 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] First gig/Enigma Variations In a message dated 07/05/02 19:50:17 GMT Daylight Time, johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com writes: > There were some other CD versions of these albums released before Enigma did > > them. I have no idea what label they appeared on but we had them in on > import in a record shop I used to work in in 1986/7. They had catalogue > numbers CDHAR1, CDHAR2, and CDHAR3. Anyone know who or what these were? ////i've got these. as far as i know they're the original non-remastered uk issues. i certainly bought them as such. strangely , they're made in japan ( i only just noticed that). i think you can tell a difference in the remasters , but not mind-blowingly so. the irritating thing on these early issues is that they (strategically?) held back a couple of tracks so each cd is very slightly different to the later re-issue. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:57:44 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk In a message dated 07/05/2002 09:45:39 GMT Daylight Time, giluzzz@fastmail.fm writes: > He also prefers listening to contemporary stuff instead of dwelling on the > past like most listers. Don't get me wrong, I hear lots of oldies myself > (though I have to say that I'm quite more carefull with 80's music) but > it's > far more interesting to read about something new, especially if you haven't > heard about it before. > Completely agree.I would expand but my wife wants me to decorate a bedroom for Christs sake. Later then. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:46:25 +0200 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Phillip Jeck > Have any Ideal Copyists heard the new Phillip Jeck cd "Stoke"? Graeme are you > out there? > I do have this Jeck already for about two weeks now together with the Biosphere ceedee. And they are both fantastic. Comparing this one with Vinyl Coda IV this one has a milder sound. It has 7 tracks instead of one. Favourite track? . Now i am listening at it and start with track 5. It's difficult to say something about one track. It is probably processing music. Let the music do his work and start with the beginning. You will be surprised now and then. because that sitarsound he uses is beautiful. The year is still 8 months to go but this is already one of my favourites. Jeck's one definitely. Also the Biosphere one is a beauty. Geir Jensen sampled a classic album with music from Claude Debussy. And created a twelf track album with his ambient sound. Good one again for my cycle-journeys. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:59:17 +0200 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Read and Burn Every one is talking about a favourite Wire album. But Which track is favourite from the last ReadandBurn ceedee Mine 1 Agfers of Kodack 2 Germship 3 Art of Stopping 4 Comet 5 I don't understand 6 1st fast But it will change probably next week again and I don't understand ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:05:35 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] talk talk In a message dated 5/7/02 2:58:01 PM Central Daylight Time, CHRISWIRE@aol.com writes: << He also prefers listening to contemporary stuff instead of dwelling on the > past like most listers. Don't get me wrong, I hear lots of oldies myself > (though I have to say that I'm quite more carefull with 80's music) but > it's > far more interesting to read about something new, especially if you haven't > heard about it before. >> I prefer to do both...i listen to a lot of new stuff but i like to find out about stuff that i missed.. especially if it is an influence on whatever new music i am listening to.....and when is something officially "old"?..just curious.. Robert Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:08:15 +0200 From: "Jan Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] ATP I am curious if someone knows if there is a Wire -track on one of the ATP-promo ceedees. Especially the one called Shellac curated All Tomorrow's Parties 2.0 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:13:23 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig.YOU LUCKY SO & SO In a message dated 07/05/2002 18:08:11 GMT Daylight Time, D.Heale@btopenworld.com writes: > The Banana Splits- > > some shopping center- > > 1971 > > I was 6. > > > > Cheers, > > Billy > > billy.you saw the BANANA SPLITS!!!! > That is just so excellent.Wow I would love to have seen them.I mean it. Tra la la Tra la la la ... Fleagle take out the trash ! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:16:05 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE POST CREAM SILENCE In a message dated 07/05/2002 18:26:49 GMT Daylight Time, D.Heale@btopenworld.com writes: > must say Tony mcphee/groundhogs still lodged in my memory... > my ears buzzed for a week from the volume.. they wiped the floor with us... > THANK CHRIST FOR THE BOMB" live +early versions of cherry red..... > i bet most of you gang on the idealcopy haven't the faintest what i'm going > on > about.... > Top man.Certainly do know what you're going on about.Great stuff & still listen to the albums on the odd ocassion.Head back down behind the parapit time.. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:18:26 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig In a message dated 07/05/2002 18:51:27 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > Of course years before that i went to see > Earth, Wind and Fire with my parents but does that count? > > Robert Lynn > Yes. OK I admit my Mum & Dad taking me to see the Bachelors when I was 6 or 7.But I didn't inhale. Romona Romona you're mine.... Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:23:43 +0100 From: "Steve Speight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] first ever gig From what I remember the Jolt were very Jam-like but I'd never heard of them before the gig and it was a while ago :) I think you're right about the New Hearts (singer?) and Secret Affair. All I remember is I didn't like them at all and they smashed up all their gear at the end of the gig. Very tacky. Weller must have still been a teenager then. all those Weller/Foxton leaps in the air without missing a beat. I think I was 13 or 14 then. I was totally blown away. All this nostalgia. Been thinking back and I reckon my third gig was not too long after, XTC at the Marquee on the White Music tour. they did a matinee gig on a Saturday afternoon for younger fans who couldn't blag their way into the later show. bloody good they were too. Steve - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.astbury10@virgin.net] Sent: 07 May 2002 17:20 To: Steve Speight; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] first ever gig > Hammersmith Odean (77 I think ?) > > The Jam, The New Hearts, The Jolt (The Modern World tour) the jolt. they were that 'new jam' band weren't they. another three peice in suits (but without the weller songs!) i have a pleasant if fairly unremarkable 7" single called (off the top of my head) 'i can wait'. at least they didn't over-stay their welcome. were they as 'jam-like' live as everyone said? didn't someone in the new hearts go onto be quite famous. (it wasn't the guy out of secret affair was it?) keith ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #140 *******************************