From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #134 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, May 1 2002 Volume 05 : Number 134 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] And What Customs did they Drill to Death? ["Keith Astbury] [idealcopy] Re: Bill Hick/Live Wire [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] Read & Burn ["Keith Astbury" ] RE: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? (corrected version...yeeesh) ["Eric Klav] Re: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? (corrected version...yeeesh) [MarkBursa@] Re: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] free night out in london! ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... [fernando ] [idealcopy] factory memorabilia [fernando ] Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Are You Are Missing Reporter? ["Bill Hick" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:54:29 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] And What Customs did they Drill to Death? > Your review (still unfolding) is brilliant and a much needed injection of > interesting content to this list... HO HUM! (Each to his own) > but for gods sake don't start kicking > the IC-ers for not being there! I'm sure we all had our reasons. Yeah. I know it's hard to believe for people who waste their time by writing to folk they don't know, about some old band who - until recently - hadn't issued any (proper) new material for years, but...well some of us have got lives outside IC you know. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:04:27 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Bill Hick/Live Wire I see this as a win/win situation. Either Graeme is back, or there's a new guy named Bill (yes, think he's Graeme, but if not, then welcome to Bill). Either way, "his" posts have made for good reading. A trip to Britain to see a concert is out of the question for me, so I appreciate all of the reviews and comments. The description of the new material combined w/ the exclusive (unless I missed something) use of PINK FLAG for "oldies" clearly points toward a certain direction. The fact that a return to fast-rock (for lack of a better term) is the last thing I expected from Wire at this point is perhaps the one reason I should have expected it. Michael Flaherty np Can's "Sacrilege" remixes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:18:18 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? I comparing the relative style between Graeme and Bill, I have concluded that Bill is not Graeme unless he has curbed his more acerbic. While I most certainly enjoyed Bill's contribution, "Julian cope with this" is not Graeme at his best. Also, I couldn't attended the gig as I live thousand's of kilometres away. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:32:46 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Read & Burn tim said > Billy Joel?! Talk about soft targets! They'll be saying 'I hate Pink Floyd' > next...Oh no Johnny Rotten already did that 25 years > ago.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I know early Wire were compared with Syd-era PF, but I'm still trying to work out where that person (who Giluz quoted) was coming from when he said that 'Read &Burn' sounded like 'pink floyd style rock'. WHAT??? (there's no need to feel old Giluz, he's talking bollocks!) As for 'R&B', what's everyone opinions now the dust has settled? I've been listening to it quite a bit in the car - LOUD. (The treated guitar (?) sonics towards the end of 'Comet' particularly benefit from the volume). Whilst the album(?) is maybe a little one-d, generally showing Wire only in their Pink Flag shouty mode, it's undoubtedly a short sharp thrill. Can anyone out there think of an album with shorter gaps btwn songs than this? You can barely catch your breath before the next buzzsawing outburst greets you. My pick of the bunch after numerous listens is still 'I Don't Understand' - the one track that for me would be fit to grace ANY Wire album. Great song and a great performance (particularly the short stabs of guitar and the almost manic vocs). The one track that doesn't really do it for me is 'Agfers...', which seems to be quite a popular cut with other listers. I don't dislike it, but it just seems bitty and doesn't QUITE work for me. I'll just end with a special Robert mention - the man is a restrained powerhouse IMO, who together with Graham just drives the band forward with minimum fuss... Yep. He's still punk's Charlie Watts to Rat Scabies Keith Moon! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:30:04 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? (corrected version...yeeesh) In comparing the relative style between Graeme and Bill, I have concluded that Bill is not Graeme unless he has curbed his usually more acerbic comments. While I most certainly enjoyed Bill's contribution, "Julian cope with this" is not Graeme at his best. Also, I couldn't attended the gig as I live thousand's of kilometres away. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:10:21 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? (corrected version...yeeesh) Eric, << In comparing the relative style between Graeme and Bill, I have concluded that Bill is not Graeme unless he has curbed his usually more acerbic comments. >> It's Graeme all right. And I don't believe he was having a go at those who didn't attend ATP - he was simply hailing the event as the Woodstock of the post-laptop generation, and thus claiming golden anorak brownie points by being there (and we know he was there. We have, erm, reliable sightings...). Meanwhile the rest of us eschewed the dubious charms of an out-of-season holiday camp populated by intense young indie-kids in favour of an night in with our Blancmange and Flock of Seagulls B-sides. As you do. He omitted to notice (that's what happens if you unsubscribe...) that at least eight ICers chose to take our Wire-fix in Bristol the week before.... Graeme, nice to have you back ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:31:13 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? on 30/04/02 17:18, Eric Klaver at eklaver@elysium-sl.com wrote: > I comparing the relative style between Graeme and Bill, I have concluded > that Bill is not Graeme unless he has curbed his more acerbic. on 30/04/02 17:04, Michael Flaherty at mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us wrote: > I see this as a win/win situation. Either Graeme is back, or there's a new > guy named Bill Actually, I'm Graeme posing as giluz and Bill Hicks is just an unfortunate quantum entity accidentally created by this shameless but brilliant scam, made out of all the nonsense all idealcopiers never wrote about Wire but only circulated in the depths of their nasty little minds. Gil Licks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:59:08 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? > Actually, I'm Graeme posing as giluz and Bill Hicks is just an unfortunate > quantum entity accidentally created by this shameless but brilliant scam this is getting a bit 'spartacus' (well either that or 'Life of Brian'). I'm Graeme. No I'm Greame. Keith (I mean Graeme) np yes boss food corner - transglobal undergraeme, which i'm playing to death at the mo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:55:01 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? by jove! I knew it!!! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of giluz Sent: April 30, 2002 2:31 PM To: Eric Klaver; ideal copy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Graeme crackers? on 30/04/02 17:18, Eric Klaver at eklaver@elysium-sl.com wrote: > I comparing the relative style between Graeme and Bill, I have concluded > that Bill is not Graeme unless he has curbed his more acerbic. on 30/04/02 17:04, Michael Flaherty at mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us wrote: > I see this as a win/win situation. Either Graeme is back, or there's a new > guy named Bill Actually, I'm Graeme posing as giluz and Bill Hicks is just an unfortunate quantum entity accidentally created by this shameless but brilliant scam, made out of all the nonsense all idealcopiers never wrote about Wire but only circulated in the depths of their nasty little minds. Gil Licks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:11:29 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] free night out in london! Seem to recall My Life Story not being very popular with listees, but anyone in the London area TOMORROW (1/5) might want to check Jake Shillingfords new band, EXILEINSIDE. It sounds a pretty good night - short acoustic set from the band and new wave/electronica (neu) sets. And it's FREE! Keith Right in the heart of London's West End, Club Exile (EI015) is a regular monthly event that encompasses the Ei philosophy and reflects the music that has influenced the sound of ExileInside. The next Club Exile will be a special event as it will feature..wait for it.a. LIVE ACOUSTIC SESSION FROM EXILEINSIDE The next night is Wednesday 1st May 2002 and Jake will be joined in the DJ booth by Gary Robertson and Mark Horne. Admission is FREE! May's Club Exile will also feature Jake & Aaron performing ExileInside material live for the first time! The set will consist of acoustic versions of three songs from the forthcoming ExileInside album. The itinerary for the next club night is as follows: 7.00 - Doors open. DJ Gary will be playing a set of Smooth Electronica, Neu and Rare Synth. 8.30 - ExileInside will perform three songs of alienation and escape, all from the forthcoming EI album. 9.00 - Harder, faster, louder - Jake will join Gary and Mark in the DJ booth to play an uptempo set of New Wave and Old Anything until doors close at 11.00. You will find us downstairs at The Sun & 13 Cantons 21 Great Pulteney Street London W1 The nearest tubes are Piccadilly Circus or Oxford Circus and The Sun & 13 cantons is situated at the bottom and to the right of Carnaby St For more details and a map visit http://www.exileinside.com or email helen@exileinside.com See you there! Love Jake & Aaron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:33:51 -0700 From: "Uri Baran" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ATP 27/04 - Oops Apparently, the opening number was 99.9 which was the opener @ 93ft East NOT DJ F/O which was the opener the previous w/e & Bristol. Suitably chastened ex-reviewer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:32:38 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... At 12:22 AM +0100 4/30/02, Keith Astbury wrote: >Not the biggest factory aficionado in the world (prefer the admittedly >short-lived 'Zoo' myself), but here goes... I did not like Factory as many other have... but, with Joy Division a most favorite group, it is hard to ignore. Cutting and paste to get my order: > >{1} Joy Division - Closer >Like another reader - Dan? - I could manage without the 'Atrocity >Exhibition', but otherwise... >The 'Eternal'/'Decades' double header is virtually unsurpassed any time any >place. I always had the same thing about Closer... when I got the vinyl, I would always start with the "b-side", to avoid the start with Atrocity Exhibition... that song worked best live, and it is a bit "off" in this album -- as far as fitting with everything else, and it is a bit of an obvious/corny lead in. >{2} Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures >'a loaded gun won't set you free' can still send shivers. or "walked on water, run through fire, but can't feel it anymore" is the other line. An effect lost when anyone else sings the song, even Bedhead. >{3} New Order - Lowlife >Desc. - rightly IMO - at the time by P.Morley (I think) as New Order's >'Closer'. this is actually tied with U.P.... This is indeed NO's Closer... {4} The Wake -- Here Comes Everybody >New Order - Power Corruption & Lies >Still finding their feet post-Curtis, but some GREAT moments... {5} Section 25 -- From the Hilltop {6} The Wake -- Harmony EP {7} OMD -- Electricity 7in {8} New Order -- Technique (it has not aged well with me, but there are still some choice tracks in there) {9} Joy Division -- Still (the Italian initial pressing has Ian talking in between the tracks... which is a nice effect... the live is lacking, but there is important stuff here... Subtance just does not play well, and it feels more historic in its purpose than Still) >{A} Happy Mondays - Bummed >Not only contains the might 'Write For Love', but also - on the inside >sleeve - the least erotic looking nude shot EVER! and the album they should have released: the Chameleons -- Script of the Bridge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:45:03 -0700 From: fernando Subject: [idealcopy] factory memorabilia I have not seen that issue yet... but it surprises me that some stuff is missing... like the other Xmas stuff: two come to mind (the Blue Monday flick book and the poster of the building 1990?). I agree with Mark... the price for Fac1 would be much higher... perhaps in the 1000UKP range, easily. Other memorabilia like the "12 inches of New Order" is not listed either. There is also the 6.5kg bronze "award" done for the band for the sales of Blue Monday... done by Saville (the wheel grinder from Movement/Still era designs) and with the names of the recipients embossed... 6 of those, and 1 "test pressing". - -fernando At 5:18 PM -0400 4/14/02, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >Dubious about the pricing....#200 for FAC1? Add a nought on the end.... >The "example of memorabilia" looks like the Hacienda membership application >form which had the Hacienda spec on it. Got one of those somewhere - as well >as my Hac membership card (which expired in 1984!) and has a rather fetching >pic of a rather thinner version of me on it ;-) > >Mark > >> mark, in case you haven't seen mojo collections the fac 'cool collectables' >> are as follows... >> fac 145 - 1985 xmas cards (#25) >> fac 51 - example of memorabilia >> fac 263 - bronze new order bust (#450) >> fac 175 - xmas gift 1986 - containing origami factory logo and cassette of >> thick pigeons blue xmas (#40) >> fac 1 - poster (#200) >> fac 86 - origami hacienda (#30) >> fac 151 - book, postcards, badges for festival of 10th summer (#20 the lot) >> fac 221 - badge (#20) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:50:54 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... > >{2} Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures > >'a loaded gun won't set you free' can still send shivers. > > or "walked on water, run through fire, but can't feel it anymore" is > the other line. An effect lost when anyone else sings the song, even > Bedhead. Yeah. Curtis vocals at this point in the song are quite simply as good as it gets. Ever. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:57:17 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Fw: [idealcopy] Read & Burn > > Keith asked - As for 'R&B', what's everyone opinions now the dust has > settled? > > ----- > > Well, having stuck it halfway up the top ten list after only a few listens I > feel more than happy with this instant judgement after a few weeks more. > It's a blast, it makes me feel better when I hear it and nothing else I'm > listening to at the moment comes close. So much of it sounds like Pink Flag > era (albeit better produced) that I'm transported while listening it. > Although I know in my head that 'I Don't Understand' is the stand-out, it's > 'Comet' that has my heart. > > As for shorter gaps between songs - 'The Ramones'? > > another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:03:41 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Are You Are Missing Reporter? Sunday 21.4: caught the last half hour or so of Colin's DJ set, during which he played an Immersion style remix of "The Art of Persistence" which sounded unrecognisable to me until the singing gave it away. He said he'd also played slightly different mixes of some RnB01 tracks, but I was watching Zeni Geva and Flour at the time. The rest was various Swim tracks including Malka Spigel's "Fishes and the Shining Sea" and a Ronnie and Clyde track that put bounce to my step as I walked into the pub. Colin has revealed that each instalment of RnB will have a different concept. It seems there will be at least four EPs, maybe five. A great new song entitled "Ten Years After" with the shouted chorus, "Spit!" is probably going to be on the next one. "It's the simplest chorus we could sing," explained Graham, "And we'd never have got away with it in 78!" before recounting a tale of spitting on a racist. Lyrical fragments refracted - "Exposed in Paradise / Religious Extremism / Septic Industry / Empty Distillery / Who's the Hero Tonight? / Spit! Spit! Spit! Spit! Spit!" Revolving around an endless biting two note riff, it seems to nail in three minutes the global uncertainties godspeed take two hours to imply and fret about. Lyrically it makes a stark companion to the reportage of "The Agfers of Kodack" and suggests that RnB02 is likely to piss all over RnB01. The other new song had the intriguing title "Mr Marx's Table." Could later RnB instalments be hacked up fragments of missing chairs or moodier slower numbers like the Mutant "Heartbeat" and "He Knows" and the droning "Zoom"? Between the two weekends the plan was for Wire to record a BBC digital radio session. I think its for some digital channel or other, BBC 6 was what my wheat beer sodden memory is saying. There is a possibility that John Peel might also broadcast the recordings. If this is to happen it might be a good idea if as many people emailed him as possible to request it. Obviously someone with access to it should have their finger on the pause button. Three bands were as enjoyable as Wire, but no one really had such riveting stage presence except Shellac, who share a similar absurd humour. Those other highlights were the return of the legendary Mission of Burma, the unsurpassed dynamic prowess of Shellac and the uplifting sad beauty of Blonde Redhead's filmic existential yearning. Mission of Burma was almost as much of an unbelievable happening as Wire at the Royal Festival Hall. They were even better than I could have hoped for. It was good to hear Shipping News, Rachel's, High Dependency Unit, Flour and Zeni Geva perform as I'd never seen them before. I was also impressed by three bands I'd never heard before - Threnody Ensemble, Three Second Kiss and Oxes. The Breeders were sloppy as hell but good drunken fun for the end of the first night. The floor really shook to "Cannonball," then all their part time fans filed out, perhaps keen to talk over a bit of Low's set downstairs. Most of the Breeders' set was a 'Last Splash' crowd pleaser. Graham was watching Jim's New Fall at ATP, but he seemed even less impressed with them than I was... it was good to hear them play "Mansion" & "I am Damo Suzuki" even if they were a very poor second to Brixen time. The best bit was Smith's Post-Nearly remembrance of jousts in moderninity in the Lancashire Northern Western Quarter with his friend the bat eared twat. The Unutterable songs had more or less become unutterable. The Cyber Insect seemed to be making A Lot of Wind. You go halfway down the country only to have Mark E Smith mither about how he can't find his way round... well it was better than the daft regency fops doing AC/DC impressions who played before them, and it was not a difficult decision to miss Cheap Trick in favour of the ravaged bard of Salford and his merry men. Well, Jim the bassist looked quite merry. Despite the program's assurance that everyone was expected to stay up all night getting drunk with Mark E Smith I did this with a certain inspiring character by the name of Graham Lewis. My copy of the complimentary triple CD compilation has Melt Banana's hyper-stormin' cover of 'Neat Neat Neat' on it instead of the listed track, which was a wonderful surprise as I hadn't heard it before. The Wire track is "In the Art of Stopping" same version as RnB01. Anyone who likes the new Wire direction would be silly to miss out on Melt Banana's 'Teeny Shiny' album. I also picked up a copy of the current 'Careless Talk Costs Lives' magazine which includes a page of Colin & Malka on Swim. At the end of ATP I bought Chris Brokaw's superb CD 'Red Cities' which is on 12XU records! Their site at www.12XU.net includes the following link Pink Flag Official source of Wire information. We are not affiliated with them at all, ok? http://www.pinkflag.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:08:41 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Blast First & R&B01/Faust Gilu << A very amusing reaction to R&B01, was made by a 16 year old hardcore-punk enthusiast, who flipped through the first three tracks for two minutes and disapprovingly pronounced it as 'pink floyd style rock' >> An outrageous claim... The band grew out of an underground movement but quickly developed away from the original blueprint Their albums have minimal, geometric designs with few, if any, indications of band name or title One guitarist member of the band left early on but released a few records The word bpinkb features heavily in band folklore Tensions within the band have caused long periods of inactivity Membersb solo works are less successful than the band releases Most of the band went to art school The bass player writes most of the words The most musical member is the singer/guitarist, who mainly sings words written by the bass player The drummer plays solid, unfussy 4:4 time The other musician in the band has a highly distinctive and inimitable sound. He also writes some of the songs Their classic works were on the Harvest label Their early works exerted a strong influence on the songwriting styles of various Britpopsters in the 1990s In no way do Wire resemble the Floyd!! Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:46:45 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire radio session this week kids! Graeme from the Sticks, << Between the two weekends the plan was for Wire to record a BBC digital radio session. I think its for some digital channel or other, BBC 6 was what my wheat beer sodden memory is saying. >> Well remembered. This from the BBC Radio 6 web site. Good to see nice accurate reporting from the BBC, as usual ;-) Mark >>COMING UP Wire On The Wireless This week! Colin Newman, Bruce gilbert, Graham Lewis and Robert "Gotobed" Grey have been Wired up since the band formed in 1976 but it's fair to say they've spent most of the intervening period pursuing solo projects. In a four-year long initial creative burst they produced four three albums - Pink Flag in 1977, Missing in 1978 and 154 in 1979 before reforming to produced The Drill in 1991, an album, incidentally, which featured the song Drill 10 times! After reforming for an initial concert at the Royal Albert Hall they embarked on a tour of the US and were encouraged to record again - producing the album Read And Burn. Wire - well worth the wait. Check 'em out when they appear on 6 Music. http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/bbcsessions/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:13:58 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Read & Burn i'll go with comet -- ferocious *&* playful. then comes the art of stopping. been doing most of my listening on the car's tapedeck, but alas the right speaker is all but inaudible ... dan >As for 'R&B', what's everyone opinions now the dust has settled? > >I've been listening to it quite a bit in the car - LOUD. (The treated guitar >(?) sonics towards the end of 'Comet' particularly benefit from the >volume). Whilst the album(?) is maybe a little one-d, generally showing Wire >only in their Pink Flag shouty mode, it's undoubtedly a short sharp thrill. >Can anyone out there think of an album with shorter gaps btwn songs than >this? You can barely catch your breath before the next buzzsawing outburst >greets you. > >My pick of the bunch after numerous listens is still 'I Don't Understand' - >the one track that for me would be fit to grace ANY Wire album. Great song >and a great performance (particularly the short stabs of guitar and the >almost manic vocs). > >The one track that doesn't really do it for me is 'Agfers...', which seems >to be quite a popular cut with other listers. I don't dislike it, but it >just seems bitty and doesn't QUITE work for me. > >I'll just end with a special Robert mention - the man is a restrained >powerhouse IMO, who together with Graham just drives the band forward with >minimum fuss... > >Yep. He's still punk's Charlie Watts to Rat Scabies Keith Moon! > >Keith ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #134 *******************************