From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #132 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, April 29 2002 Volume 05 : Number 132 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] And What Customs did they Drill to Death? ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Graeme review R&B01 [giluz ] [idealcopy] re Prefects CD ["ian.s. jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] And What Customs did they Drill to Death? [Eardrumbuz@aol] [idealcopy] C4 : The Alcohol Years ["ian.s. jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] John Leckie [Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: [idealcopy] And What Customs did they Drill to Death? They didn't ask Peter Hammil, Pet Shop Boys, Eyeless in Gaza or the Stockholm Monsters to play. How could Julian Cope with that? If Shellac had just asked Wah Wylie or Billy Bragg & his Blokes to do a quick busk outside it would've swung it and we know we'd all be living it up at Camber Sands. As it is, today we're only missing Shellac, the New Year, High Dependency Unit, PW Long, Bonnie Prince Billy, Nina Nastasia, Shannon Wright, the Breeders and the Fall. Some of these bands haven't even got a Q mention so how were we expected to have heard them? Back seven plus twenty four... Objections merged in the dark? The big surprise: Robert strapped on a headless rail guitar dwarfed by his tall muscular stature. A drum machine fired up as the beacons were switched off. Wire Drilled to Death! Last time they played ATP the set finished with Graham's mourning ritual "Drill" screams. Now there was yet another the "Drill" life, with four guitars and no questioning. A "Drill" without question? Clearly Wire know where they are going. They were grinding further away from the mill than ever with this sleek and powerful version which cut to the bones of the song and set them moving in a straight line. Silhouettes with electric random... The plot thickened. A jerky energetic new song with Colin and Graham alternately shouting letters was hilarious, a bastard eyewitness to B 12XU called "Read and Burn." Next "Germ Ship" sailed in with no Graham vocals and Colin almost as quiet as the new EP. The almost whispered vocal made a smart counterpoint to all the belligerence elsewhere. The shout at the end makes it, but that short track burns with focused energy, launching great simple guitar riffs in opposing angles over one of Graham's most melodically bouyant bass lines. Germ guitars sound like drills! At various times Bruce's guitar really did seem to be reciting a dugga mantra (or was I just drunk?). They played everything from RnB01 and probably half of what will later appear on RnB02. There were three new songs and all were in a similar hard and fast vein but perhaps even better than RnB01. The heaven sent extinction of "Comet" seemed to make the most feet move, an instant hit even if it was the silliest song in the set. Our driver Dez heard it for the first time on the way down and thought it sounded like "Ace of Spades" which was quite funny. Motorhead are a bit lumpy compared to Wire though. "I Don't Understand" seemed like a war cry to slaughter the main set body. The idea that misunderstanding can raze mountains from molehills seemed reflected in Colin's grim expression. This was the other surprise as Colin's usually looked quite jovial at Wire gigs but here he looked like he was ready to kill. Colin's anger lifted "I Don't Understand" and "1st Fast" with added venom. I wasn't all that convinced by Colin's vocal for the recording of "1st Fast," but live it all made sense. Could anyone say who was the bastard? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:39:34 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Blast First & R&B01/Faust on 26/04/02 11:36, John Roberts at johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com wrote: > What I don't understand is that if Blast First is still going as a label > then why aren't Wire signed to them? Paul Smith is both Wire manager and > owns Blast First. Bizarre. > > John > Probably for the same reason Wire aren't signed to ~swim. I wonder if PinkFlag would ever release non-Wire material. After days of struggling and trying to write some words on R&B01, I gave up and would just sum it up as certainly one of the best Wire releases ever. Any questions as to how it relates to the current musical environment seems to constantly slip my comprehension - maybe it's too close to me, being a Wire fan for such a long time, maybe I'm just too happy to have an excuse to listen to contemporary punk-rock, or maybe I'm just a wanker looking for meaning where it's not supposed to be instead of just sitting back and enjoying the show - I tend to think not (except for the wanker bit), if only because Wire, even at their weakest moments, always kept their art-rock sensibility of multi-layered meanings and signs. Looking back, I think most of them weren't that obvious when they were released so maybe I'm not that dumb. A very amusing reaction to R&B01, was made by a 16 year old hardcore-punk enthusiast, who flipped through the first three tracks for two minutes and disapprovingly pronounced it as 'pink floyd style rock' (as if you could say a sentence like this approvingly) - sometimes I really do feel too old. Other stuff I've been recently listening to: The new Faust remix CD - Just bought it a few days ago and can't say much about it. My first reaction is a bit of a disappointment after their excellent remix EP from a few months back, this release sounds a bit too mellow and electronic - as Colin's excellent Silo remix proved that remixes don't have to sound electronic, I think Ravivando deserves some 'rock' remixes as well. This is just a first impression, and in a few months time I might change my mind completely and pronounce it as my favourite 2002 release (after R&B01 of course). The Hives - this Swedish punk-rock band is quite fun and very happy and energetic. Secret Chiefs 3 - the latest from this Mr. Bungle sans Mike Patton line-up is excellent, as usual. Lots of Arabic sounds and tunes alongside a few rock things and some strange funky tracks. To be continued Cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:49:00 +0200 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] Graeme review R&B01 There's a review by the notorious Graeme Rowland (aka Bill Hick?) on R&B01 in the excellent Brainwashed site - http://www.brainwashed.com/brain/brainv05i15.html giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:16:27 +0100 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] re Prefects CD i've decided that i was being a grumpy middle-aged bastard... apparently this is the CD that was being sold at the recent Prefects/Nightingales gigs (info c/o www.dot-dash.freeserve.co.uk). why, oh why, didn't i see them at Eric's with The Slits and why didn't i buy the 'Going Through The Motions' Rough Trade single at the time...? don't answer that...regrets i've had a few... ian.s.j. (still waiting for the review(s) of last Friday's Nightingales gig...) ;) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:20:10 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] And What Customs did they Drill to Death? In a message dated 4/28/02 7:29:37 AM, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > >The big surprise: Robert strapped on a headless rail guitar dwarfed by >his >tall muscular stature. A drum machine fired up as the beacons were switched >but live it all made sense. Could anyone say who was the bastard? wow, another great account. certainly makes me wish (even more) that i was there. um, thanks, ur, bill? - -could it be a? nother the paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:33:48 +0100 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] C4 : The Alcohol Years (with apologies to non-UK listees...) did anyone else see this last night? it was compulsive viewing for me, trying to name all those Factory/Manchester faces... an hour long documentary, the basic story is that former 'pisshead scenester' and '2nd Division star-fucker', Carol Morley, returned to interview people she had (mostly) slept with, abused, whatever you want to call it, 15 or so years after 'running away' to London. fantastic stuff (it's still haunting me right now for some reason...hence this email) featuring words from Pete Shelley (who she married...), Vini Reilly, Mike Pickering, Bruce Mitchell, Dave Haslam (?), Tony Wilson, Alan Wise, the dyke from the New Order Play At Home programme (sorry, dont know her name...) plus others i can't remember or don't know right now. i suspect Mark might have known a few more, if he was around to see it...Mark? ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:16:08 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... Tim, << Its Martin Hannett versus John Leckie. No competetion! >> Try and imagine a John Leckie-produced Movement. or a John Leckie-produced Magic Murder & the Weather..... Hannett was either 100% on or 100% off. He buggered those two albums up something rotten... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:30:38 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... and didn't Leckie produce 'crossing the red sea'? haven't heard it in a long time, but feel sure i'll love it. keith > << Its Martin Hannett versus John Leckie. No competetion! >> > > Try and imagine a John Leckie-produced Movement. or a John Leckie-produced > Magic Murder & the Weather..... > > Hannett was either 100% on or 100% off. He buggered those two albums up > something rotten... > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:32:27 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] nostalgia fest Had a great old 'pop' single day yesterday: B-52's - love shack Blur - girls & boys David Bowie - sorrow/hallo spaceboy (with PSB's) Oasis - go let it out Shirley & Co - shame shame shame Smiths - the boy with the thorn in his side/girlfriend in a coma Sylvester - mighty real T.Rex - get it on/jeepster/20th century boy/london boys With the odd album track c/o Iggy, Beach Boys, Teardop Explodes as well. I know a few listers will hate some of them, but it was a very pleasant way to spend a Saturday afternoon when you're feeling a bit on the knackered side... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:30:59 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 10:30:38PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > and didn't Leckie produce 'crossing the red sea'? haven't heard it in a long > time, but feel sure i'll love it. > keith Also, and most people won't care about this, is there anyone else who agrees that *purely* production wise, John Leckie has done better work with Radiohead than either Slade/Kolderie (Pablo Honey) or Nigel Godrich (everything after the Bends)... "Unknown Pleasures" is almost exactly *right*, though, and you can't give that much higher praise than that. Andrew (well done sig-generator, remind me of my impending Finals why don't you) - -- "This machine will not, will not communicate, These thoughts, and the strain I am under..." - - Radiohead, 'Street Spirit (Fade Out)' ("The Bends") adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:32:33 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] doves sing crimson Keith, << I've since read that 'M62 Song' - a track on the new Doves LP - is an 'adaptation' of an old King Crimson song. Can't offer the Crimson fans any clue as to what song it is though (the clue may be in the title for all I know?) >> Apparently recorded under in an underpass beneath the M62 Motorway! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:40:59 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] C4 : The Alcohol Years > did anyone else see this last night? > an hour long documentary, the basic story is that former 'pisshead > scenester' and '2nd Division star-fucker', Carol Morley, returned to > interview people she had (mostly) slept with, abused, whatever you want to > call it, 15 or so years after 'running away' to London. i remember reading about her a yr or so back - didn't she publish a book about all this. (and isn't she paul morleys sister?) was she really married to shelley??? (i take it they're no longer an item) keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:44:33 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] doves sing crimson > << I've since read that 'M62 Song' - a track on the new Doves LP - is an > 'adaptation' of an old King Crimson song. Can't offer the Crimson fans any > clue as to what song it is though (the clue may be in the title for all I > know?) >> > > Apparently recorded under in an underpass beneath the M62 Motorway! > Mark AS YOU DO!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:49:06 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] C4 : The Alcohol Years << i suspect Mark might have known a few more, if he was around to see it...Mark? >> Bugger. I was watching the Nightingales.... (review to follow...) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:22:13 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a Factory poll.... > Also, and most people won't care about this, is there anyone else who > agrees that *purely* production wise, John Leckie has done better work > with Radiohead than either Slade/Kolderie (Pablo Honey) or Nigel Godrich > (everything after the Bends)... > Nope - I'd have to disagree with you here. I think Nigel Godrich is the best choice for Radiohead. I still consider OK Computer one of the best produced albums I've ever heard. (And, don't forget - Godrich was Leckie's tape operator on the Bends.) For me, The Bends is sort of like the Beatles Revolver, whereas OK Computer is sort of like the Beatles Sgt. Pepper. Some people prefer the straightforward approach of Revolver/Bends, while others prefer the experimentation of Pepper/Computer. I guess I'm in the Pepper/Computer camp. Both albums are magnificent, though. In my opinion, John Leckie's work with The Dukes of Stratosphear is his best work. Especially 25 O'Clock. Amazing stuff. Cheers, Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:34:14 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] John Leckie On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 03:22:13PM -0700, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > > Also, and most people won't care about this, is there anyone else who > > agrees that *purely* production wise, John Leckie has done better work > > with Radiohead than either Slade/Kolderie (Pablo Honey) or Nigel Godrich > > (everything after the Bends)... > > > > Nope - I'd have to disagree with you here. I think Nigel Godrich is the > best choice for Radiohead. I still consider OK Computer one of the best > produced albums I've ever heard. (And, don't forget - Godrich was Leckie's > tape operator on the Bends.) I actually prefer OK Computer as a complete album, but "The Bends" has better individual *songs*, I think. (I think much the same is true of Revolver/Sgt. Peppers' too...) I do have a very soft spot for "The Bends", though, cause it was the album that a) got me seriously into music and b) got me playing the guitar... so I'm not even slightly objective :) Andrew - -- "I call, and I collect; (So just strike him softly, away from the body..." - - Blur, "Trouble in the Message Centre" ('Parklife') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:28:06 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] nostalgia fest In a message dated 4/28/02 4:27:06 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > Had a great old 'pop' single day yesterday: > > B-52's - love shack > Blur - girls & boys > David Bowie - sorrow/hallo spaceboy (with PSB's) > Oasis - go let it out > Shirley & Co - shame shame shame > Smiths - the boy with the thorn in his side/girlfriend in a coma > Sylvester - mighty real > T.Rex - get it on/jeepster/20th century boy/london boys > > With the odd album track c/o Iggy, Beach Boys, Teardop Explodes as well. > > I know a few listers will hate some of them, but it was a very pleasant way > to > spend a Saturday afternoon when you're feeling a bit on the knackered > side... > > Keith > Cheers to ya Keith!..who cares what the listers think...As long as you enjoyed yourself that's all that mattered...as a matter of fact i have had a great day of listening to a stack of old singles (you inspired me).. 1. B-Movie - Switch On Switch Off 2. A Certain Ratio - Knife Slits Water 3. A Flock of Seagulls - Nightmares 4.Depeche Mode - Leave in Silence 5. Heaven 17 - Let Me Go 6. Siouxsie and the Banshees - The Passenger 7. The Eurogliders - Heaven 8. Icehouse - No Promises 9. Kate Bush - Running Up That Hill 10. Human League - The Lebanon ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #132 *******************************